# How come all of a sudden



## Pheonix (Nov 17, 2010)

How come all of a sudden I get swamped with depession.  Its seems I am doing fine, then something triggers me and makes me angry and indignant and  I try to figure out what it is but in the process reallyof looking deeply into it and finding the answer I end up feeling really depressed and hopeless. Is this just the human condition?, to know how really powerless and insignificant we are as individuals. How we are all being divided bettween rich and poor, how so many run to find arguments to continue to live in denial. How we are changing from a democracy to Corporatocracy, where elites run goverment. How we are fed delusions and motivational carrots as democracy is dying around us. How the majority has given up the option to think for themselves for a promise of a little illusional financial niche, and how those same people look for heros and christs on the cross to save them from their lack of courage. Will some academic pundit rush forth to say I am thinking to much, daydreaming to much, thats the reason why I feel unhappy and not at all about the intital shock, stripping away of my illusions and reality of how the ugly way our world is actually run.


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## Daniel (Nov 18, 2010)

> but in the process reallyof looking deeply into it and finding the answer I end up feeling really depressed and hopeless.


That may relate to rumination:

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/depression/20310-probing-the-depression-rumination-cycle.html

Also:



> "At the very earliest stages in which mood starts to spiral downward, it is not the mood that does the damage, but how we react to it."
> 
> _The Mindful Way through Depression_


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## Pheonix (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks Daniel but I dont think I am dealing with simple rumination here at all. Its my nature to be very sensitive and a deep thinker nothing can change that, in fact some people are made that way. I guess I should not let myself belive its a handicap but rather a treasure. Thinking deeply and then feeling disatisfied, mmm, I realise its a process that has to be followed through and not blocked. I think I will again start to feel better when I have 'ruminated' a bit more and gropped around in the 'dark' for ways to answer my dissatisfaction with the bad stuff thats happening in our world. Then I can start to act on it in a way that makes sense to me.


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## Daniel (Nov 18, 2010)

> Its my nature to be very sensitive and a deep thinker nothing can  change that


As mentioned in the book _Wise Mind, Open Mind_, such "self-honesty" may be a way of trying to hide avoidance tendencies (with avoidance being a habitual but alterable behavior):

Wise Mind, Open Mind: Finding ... - Google Books


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## Pheonix (Nov 18, 2010)

No. I really do belive I am a deep thinker and a highly sensitive person and I would not want or need to be anything else. Does anyone else have a problem with that?


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## Daniel (Nov 18, 2010)

The point isn't about being a deep thinker or not.  The point is about avoidance, which is almost inherent in depression:



> There is a strong relationship between depression and  avoidance.     Avoidance is a terrible coping mechanism. It instantly  defines you  as a     victim by suggesting that somehow you can't cope  with whatever is  going     on, as if you're a victim of life.
> 
> Can't Get Out of Bed - Psychology Today


And rumination per se is an avoidance behavior, e.g:

If you are not prone to rumination, then I'm surprised you have depression.

For example:



> Most depressed  individuals spend a great deal of time brooding without any  real awareness that they're doing so.
> 
> The Depression Cure: The 6-Step ... - Google Books





> As  a heuristic to use in teaching clients to determine whether ruminating  is helpful or not, Addis and Martell (2004) suggested using the “2-minute  rule.”
> 
> Behavioral Activation for Depression ... - Google Books





> How Thinking Can Be Problematic Behavior
> 
> The process of ruminating keeps clients stuck in negative states and  almost invariably results in disengagement from the environment. This  assessment is consistent with the formulations of Lewinsohn (2001), who  proposed that depression elicits a focus on the self that is repetitive  but doesn't lead to problem solving. *Clients can become caught in mental  ruts, thinking, for example, "I feel down today—why does this keep  happening to me? Will I ever beat this? This is just too hard." *Such  thoughts rarely have end points, they do not lead to effective problem  solving, and the thoughts recur repeatedly. The consequence is a  self-perpetuating process that keeps the individual stuck in his or her  thoughts, less likely to find a positive, active solution, and more  likely to be disengaged from other activities. Such sustained focus on  internal feeling states may decrease any pleasure that can be derived  from activities and may perpetuate depression by preventing goal  attainment.
> 
> ...








			
				Pheonix said:
			
		

> reality of how the ugly way our  world is actually run.


By the way, people who are depressed are said to be less altruistic, and that  is largely because they are less active in general.

Also:


> When stress hits, [an optimistic] explanatory style filters the   impact  determining whether a glancing blow or knockout punch is   delivered.
> 
> http://forum.psychlinks.ca/positive...s-happens-to-those-who-should-be-unhappy.html







			
				Pheonix said:
			
		

> Is this just the human condition?, to know how really powerless and  insignificant we are as individuals.


No.  Depression is related to having a low degree of self-efficacy.  Also:



> Successful therapy, I would postulate, is the conversion process  from an   unhealthy to healthy life narrative.
> 
> http://forum.psychlinks.ca/therapy-and-therapists/22169-what-movies-and-therapy-have-in-common.html



And a point made by Michael Neill and others is that it helps to differentiate:

1) What you can control
2) What you can't control
3) What is story (e.g. catastrophizing and awfulizing)

An example of awfulizing is seeing things as intolerable or as bound to be intolerable. Similarly: 



> Low frustration-tolerance (LFT) is an evaluative component in   dysfunctional and irrational beliefs. Behaviors are then derived towards   avoiding frustrating events which, paradoxically, lead to increased   frustration and even greater mental stress.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_frustration_tolerance


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## Daniel (Nov 18, 2010)

Pheonix said:
			
		

> I think I will again start to feel better when I have 'ruminated' a bit  more and gropped around in the 'dark' for ways to answer my  dissatisfaction with the bad stuff thats happening in our world. Then I  can start to act on it in a way that makes sense to me.



What I mean by rumination:



Source: _Beat the Blues Before They Beat You: How to Overcome Depression_


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## Pheonix (Nov 19, 2010)

Oh for pitys sake. Did you really have to bombard me, with all that?. What you are doing is not helpful for me. Do me a favor will you please Daniel and not reply to any of my posts in future. I know you are trying to be helpful but I feel that your particular approch is not helping me. Maybe I will relate to somebody else . If no one else has time or can answer them or feels they can relate at this time, fine, its not a problem, I can look for answers elsewhere. So I ask you again Daniel to please ignore my posts in future, thank you.


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## AmZ (Nov 19, 2010)

Pheonix said:


> Oh for pitys sake. Did you really have to bombard me, with all that?. What you are doing is not helpful for me. Do me a favor will you please Daniel and not reply to any of my posts in future. I know you are trying to be helpful but I feel that your particular approch is not helping me. Maybe I will relate to somebody else . If no one else has time or can answer them or feels they can relate at this time, fine, its not a problem, I can look for answers elsewhere. So I ask you again Daniel to please ignore my posts in future, thank you.


 
You will often find that the approach is very direct and honest on this forum, and sometimes the truth hurts, as I can tell you from my experience here. So I am not saying that you are necessarily the same, but from what you have posted it looks like perhaps you are looking more for sympathy (which is OK also) and not so much practical advice which Daniel is kindly taking time in searching for and providing you with.

I wish you genuine luck on your search.


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## Yuray (Nov 19, 2010)

> How we are all being divided bettween rich and poor, how so many run to find arguments to continue to live in denial. How we are changing from a democracy to Corporatocracy, where elites run goverment. How we are fed delusions and motivational carrots as democracy is dying around us. How the majority has given up the option to think for themselves for a promise of a little illusional financial niche, and how those same people look for heros and christs on the cross to save them from their lack of courage. Will some academic pundit rush forth to say I am thinking to much, daydreaming to much, thats the reason why I feel unhappy and not at all about the intital shock, stripping away of my illusions and reality of how the ugly way our world is actually run.



Answers  to some of these questions will be better looked for by investigating philosophy.



> I know you are trying to be helpful but I feel that your particular approch is not helping me.


How could we best approach you so as not to offend or confuse?



> stripping away of my illusions and reality of how the ugly way our world is actually run.


How the world is run, and satisfaction gained or lost, is a matter of perspective. Before your depression kicked in this time, did you feel the world was a better place?, or did the welfare of the world concern you the way it does now?

(I hope I have interpreted your post correctly)


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## Daniel (Nov 19, 2010)

Well, I'm already on my way out, but people who post at self-help forums are sometimes looking for co-ruminators or people to provide reassurance that their negative thinking is correct. For example, some people try to get validation for their external locus of control.    (In pro-suicide forums, that is the norm.)

A lot of what you have said in your first post is generic depression, e.g. your use of the terms "depressed," "hopeless," and "triggers me."  So given you are in the depression forum, I assume there is a reason you feel hopeless besides the state of the world.  And I assume you know that as well.


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## rdw (Nov 20, 2010)

Can you as one person change how the world is run? Are you responsible for all of the indiginites suffered here and in other locations? You know the answer to that  - unfortunately you cannot. The thing you can change is the effect that the world's problems have on your mental and emotional wellbeing. Thinking about those problems in a philosophical manner is healthy; acting on those problems by donating or volunteering with organizations who help those less fortunate is healthy; thinking about these multitude of problems until you slide into a depression is unhealthy for you.


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## Pheonix (Nov 21, 2010)

Thank you RDW. I understand your words and I think you understand me. I over reacted before and I apologise to those that was offering their advise. Sometimes its hard to understand what people are saying, it seems like cold critcism and statistics. I was not looking for a co-ruminator or someone to say "isnt the world awful" constantly but ,  say " stop panicing!, yes the world has big problems and its natural to get down sometimes but its, more than one person can fix in a life time, offer hope and say keep it up, it makes a difference even though its hard to see it at times, and dont let it get you down. I guess I did it all the wrong way. Maybe I posted wrong and it should of been in anxiety forum.  

Its not all the world though. I often feel and see the world as a potentaly dangerouse place because I grew up in a dangerous place as a child. It is a matter of perspective but it does not make my perpective totally invalid, just not the majority (for which I am still painfully aware). When I grew up, even though I was not the oldest, I was the strongest emotionaly among the my siblings. I stood up and said the sadistic beatings and emotional abuse was not right, that the constant bullying and cruelty was unjust. I sensed the others were not able to take it ( my sister would collapse and shake uncontrolably and that was frightening to me and my young brothers, become frozen and silent in fear) and in the end it drew the fire away from the others, until I alone took all the beatings and abuse. I became the family scapegoat. I did it defiantly for several years until eventualy my spirit broke but by then the family split up we had all left home. I lived life as a shadow, without any awareness of personhood.

 My life from my mid 20's has been trying slowly putting my personality back together to heal the scars and put my spirit back together as a person who is allowed to have expressions and form opinions for herself. I have always felt very sensitive to unjustices and abuses in the world but also very vunerable too. I want to fight for human rights but fear having my spirit totally crushed like I was when I was a teenager. Violent crime, rape and murder happen not far from me every week and it does not take me long to feel anxieouse and that the world is going out of control and there is nothing I can do about it. I have done volenteer work for childrens homes and a battered womens refuge and shortly I will be doing art classes for a daycare for the mentally ill. Its not much money and I own very little but I do it because I want to make a difference. I know part of my problem is never feeling I make enough differnce.  Even when I was depressed, I did these things. 
Right now my head is in the wrong place and I have many problems on my mind. Even when I try not to think about anything bad, my chest hurts and my limbs ache. I say to myself , it must get better, I do all the right stuff, so it must get better, think ahead, think ahead. It just really hurts all the time


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## rdw (Nov 21, 2010)

Sometimes we help others and forget to help and heal ourselves first. The world and others problems become our own as we are afraid to give a voice to the problems that lie in the pit of our stomachs, in our hearts or in our minds. I can absolutely understand where you are coming from.My mantra was move forward, move forward, move forward. My past was bitter and my belief was what was the point - what was done was done. However I needed to forgive and accept the past as my past, recognize that it was not me and could not affect my "now" unless I let it. I worried about the future constantly and I had to force myself to let go of that as well. You must know that I went down fighting!!!! However through living in the moment, recognizing that my thoughts are just thoughts and encouraging myself to look at the positives in my life, I have begun to heal. For the first time in my life, I do not have a knot in my stomach and it was there as part of my earliest memories. My advice would to be to read the articles about mindfulness - they have been so helpful to me. Is there a therapist or doctor you can speak to who could offer you some help? How about friends - mine have been stalwart - my family not so much... but I have survived them as well.


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