# How Much Would You Spend on a Sick Pet?



## David Baxter PhD (Jun 10, 2010)

How Much Would You Spend on a Sick Pet?
By TARA PARKER-POPE, _New York Times_ 
June 9, 2010

_Many pet owners worry they won?t be able to afford veterinary care for their pet._

How much is your pet?s health worth to you?

Most pet owners say that cost is a factor when deciding whether to seek medical care for a sick dog or cat. And about 40 percent worry they won?t be able to afford care when it?s needed, according to a new survey from the Associated Press and the Web site Petside.com.

Most pet owners (62 percent) said they would likely pay for pet health care even if the cost reached $500, but that means more than a third of pet owners said that might be too much to spend on an animal.

What if the bill for veterinary care reached $1,000? Fewer than half of pet owners said they were very likely to spend that much at the vet. Only a third said it was very likely they would pay a $2,000 vet bill.

Once the cost of saving a sick pet reached $5,000, most pet owners said they would stop treatment. Only 22 percent said they were very likely to pick up $5,000 in veterinary costs to treat a sick dog or cat.

The poll, conducted in April, involved phone interviews with 1,112 pet owners around the country.

Cat owners were more likely to quit on a pet sooner than dog owners. Among those unwilling to spend $500 on veterinary care, 26 percent owned dogs and 54 percent had cats. But once costs exceeded $500, there was no difference between dog and cat owners and their willingness to seek medical care for an animal.

Notably, income level didn?t seem to influence feelings about how much to spend on veterinary care. Pet owners who earned less than $50,000 answered about the same as those earning more money.


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## Banned (Jun 10, 2010)

Working in the pet industry, veterinary bills are a huge topic of conversation.

Alot of people are now purchasing health insurance for their pets, but policies have to be read very carefully as they contain significant maximums and limitations.

It is very easy for vet bills to accumulate, and I've started wondering if vets just assume people have insurance now and therefore either a) charge more, or b) fail to consult before administering treatment.

Some people here know that I lost my dog almost three years ago, and when I lost him his vet bill was $13,000.  I didn't have insurance on him, so I was responsible for the total amount.  I have insurance on my current dogs, but if I need to file a claim, insurance companies being what they are, they will look for a reason to deny it.

Unfortunately, in many cases $500 doesn't get you far.  A simple case of kennel cough can turn into pneumonia and amount to a $3,000 vet bill or more.

When I lost my other dog last year, the bill was $900 and that was for an overnight stay with fluids and then euthanization the following day.  They were "kind enough" to waive the fee for the x-ray of her abdomen.

I think how much a person would spend is completely dependent on so many variables.  When I lost Jessie (he's affectionately referred to as the $13,000 dead dog) I was initially quoted $4,000-6,000 for his surgery, which I was willing to gamble with.  Had they told me it would be $13,000 I would not have proceeded, not because of the cost, but because of the fact that if there is that much wrong with my dog, he's probably lived as good a life as he will.  Unfortunately after surgery he didn't get better but didn't get worse, apart from requiring a couple blood and plasma transfusions.  Because he was in "limbo" for so long, I didn't want to give up on him.  Had he given me any indication earlier that he was going to die,  I would have put him down, but he didn't.

So, apparently, I would spend $13,000 on a sick pet, but I'd prefer if they're alive at the end.


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## Jackie (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't have any pets due to my work commitments, however if I did I would spend whatever it takes to do get them well. I know people who have sold personal possessions to pay for vets treatments and got into debt but if it gets the pet better then I'm sure its worth every penny.

One thought, if it was a child you wouldn't even question it would you? Can't imagine seeing a post entitled How much would you spend on your sick child! You just wouldn't think about, you would do whatever you could and find ways of getting the money.

In my view life is life, whether a child, pet or adult, thinking about how much to spend doesn't come into it. Just my humble opinion


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## Daniel (Jun 10, 2010)

Of course, most people tend to be very nice to their pets but are less concerned about other animals.    Bacon is often cited as an example when discussing the disparity in animal treatment.


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## luminous veil (Jun 20, 2010)

My family's cat died last September. He was having kidney problems. We had adopted him 5 years ago, and he was around 10 at his time of death. Well, we spent a few thousand on his treatment, I think. But like the above case, it would have been better if he were alive at the end. We had to euthanize him because the poor guy was in so much pain. The vet said that he had probably been getting sick for many years but never showed it until the last week or so. 

My roommate's cat (I guess she's sort of "ours" by now though) goes in for annual checkups. She is 9 and has not had any surgeries or problems since her spay, and that was over 8 years ago... thank god. Apparently she is getting fat, haha, but that can be fixed, just as long as she is not sick. We have her on the "best" food for her (by the vet's recommendation, anyway) now as she gets older. But I think between the two of us, we would foot a fairly expensive bill to keep the cat healthy. But it would be something like, if there is a 50% success rate for the medical procedure, we would pay this much, etc. Gambling.


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## Banned (Jun 26, 2010)

I had my "healthy" dog at the vet this past week because she was coming up lame in her back end.  As it turns out, she needs a $4,500 surgery that - you guessed it - isn't covered by insurance.  This is on top of the surgery my other dog needs that is going to be about $7,000 for the "cheap" option up to about $12,000 for the "more expensive" route.  Again, insurance has denied the claim on that.  I'm seriously considering cancelling my policy and putting that money in a savings account each month.

For now, I don't know what to do.  I don't want her in pain, and I have her on painkillers but they are hard on her liver.  I don't really have the $4,500, but it looks like I'll be maxing out a credit card or two to pay for it.  She deserves to be pain free and being so young, euthanasia isn't an option.


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## Banned (Jul 7, 2010)

Ok, well, I'm happy to say that I can eat my words!  My dog's insurance company called me today and they are approving her surgery.  They cover up to 90% and I pay the remaining 10%.  This is a HUGE help for my dog.  Also, they have a "no increase" policy, so my rates won't go up because of this claim.  The way it works is you basically get a $20,000 "pot" for your dog's life...so this will take $4,500 out of the pot, leaving us $15,500.  I'm really relieved because she's been in so much pain and really needs this surgery.  I was going to have to do it either way, but this at least makes me relieved I've been paying these premiums.


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## Daniel (Apr 6, 2019)

Should you shell out for a dog's MRI scan when there are queues at the local food bank?
6/5/2014; Retrieved 4/6/2019

...Each consultation, I go through all the treatment options and their expenses in detail. Some people are embarrassed that they do not have enough money for the treatment. I praise them wholeheartedly – out of relief that they can spend their money more appropriately. I was once appalled to hear that a client had needed to move house, having spent £5,000 on futile colic surgery for her horse. It is a weakness that must not be exploited by vets.

Besides, there are usually cheaper ways of doing things. Try another practice, for example, as the prices are arbitrary and differ vastly. I have removed a cat’s thyroid (thyroidectomy) in three different practices for £200, £500 and £800. Same surgeon, same procedure, same equipment. I find it extraordinary that clients rarely compare prices on surgery...


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## Daniel (Apr 6, 2019)

Are we barking mad to spend £1.2bn a year on pet insurance? | Daily Mail Online

Are we barking mad to spend £1.2bn on pet insurance? Premiums are rocketing, it's a nightmare to claim and it can now be cheaper to insure a home than a dog


Pet insurers made £425m in a year, selling policies worth £1.2bn 
It now costs more to insure the average cat than a home and its contents 
Calls to the Financial Ombudsman about pet insurance are up 113% in five years 
More than one in three pet owners now say insurance is not worth the money


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## Daniel (Apr 7, 2019)

I am finding that at least in some parts of the U.S., there are also non-profit vet clinics and even non-profit animal hospitals! 

For example, I found two non-profit clinics in Phoenix that offer lower-cost pet surgeries in addition to low-cost pet dental and spay/neuter.  

Even some for-profit places around here will do low-cost dental and spay/neuter.


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## David Baxter PhD (Apr 7, 2019)

Up here, they do have low cost neuter clinics a couple of times per year.


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## Daniel (Apr 7, 2019)

We called our regular vet/hospital and they wanted well over $300 US to neuter our one-year-old chihuahua.    And in the past, they have quoted well over $600 for a dental cleaning.   I understand they have more equipment for anesthesia emergencies, etc., but the pricing is way more than we were used to in Florida.

So off to the low-cost clinic he went    We also had them do a dental cleaning (since that is their main business), and they include digital x-rays for no extra cost.    The low-cost dental clinic doesn't have a single negative review as far as animal care, so they seem to always do a great job.


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## David Baxter PhD (Apr 7, 2019)

There's a place like that in Ottawa. They have all the latest veterinary equipment - MRA, ultrasound, whatever - so of course they like to use it, and even if they don't they have to pay for it. They are by far the most expensive vets in the area.

When my son's dog was ill, they used everything they had to try and identify the cause and to try to avoid exploratory surgery. In the end, after all the tests they still didn't know so they did exploratory surgery to find and remove half a frisbie he'd eaten.

They charged him $5000 for that when they could have started with the surgery at a fraction of the cost.

I was appalled.


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## Daniel (Jun 6, 2019)

FYI: in Ontario, Canada:



> *The Farley Foundation assists those who are struggling financially to pay for veterinary care for their pets.* Pet owners who cannot afford medical care for their sick or injured pet, and who fall into one of the categories below, are encouraged to talk to their veterinarian about the availability of Farley Foundation funding:
> 
> 
> Seniors receiving the Federal Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS).
> ...



More resources, including pet food banks: https://torontohumanesociety.com/pdfs/Cannot_Afford_Care.pdf 


In the US:

Having trouble affording veterinary care? | The Humane Society of the United States


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## Daniel (Jun 6, 2019)

Pet Health Care: Why I Didnt Pay for a $6,000 Surgery | Money
November 21, 2016
By Taylor Tepper 

At 2 a.m. Wednesday morning my wife drove our nearly 14 year-old miniature dachshund to a 24-hour vet 30-minutes from our house. Thirteen hours later we sat in the veterinarian’s exam room and told her we weren’t going to pay $6,000 for an emergency gall-bladder surgery for our dog. Twenty-minutes later Chloe was gone...

In Chloe’s half-a-day stay at the vet, she already needed $2,500 in care (which my mother-in-law graciously offered to cover.) Her doctors ran blood tests, sonograms and an echocardiogram. They gave her fluids and pain medication to ease the agony. Her liver and other organs were inflamed, and her gall bladder needed to be removed.

“She’s a sick dog,” her doctor told us, which reduced Chloe’s chances of recovery. And that’s if she survived going under the knife...

We were numb on the drive home. We had used up most of our tears, and the weight of deciding to end her life was suffocating. We were sleep deprived, starving and in shock. We told Chloe stories in between sitting in silence. We told ourselves it was her time, even though we knew it might not have been.

In a few years, we’ll have another dog and another child. I think that makes us masochists, at least when it comes to pets. We’ll love our new dog, and so will our kid and future kids, but on one random Tuesday 10 to 15 years later that dog will get sick and need some operation of limited utility that we won’t be able to afford. And we’ll go through this all over again.

There is only one rationale that makes sense to me: the love you experience, for a pet or a person, transcends the pain and daily grind and connects you to something bigger. At least that’s what I tell myself.


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## Daniel (Jun 25, 2019)

How to say no to your vet.
_Slate.com_, October 2007

Two trends are making a visit to your veterinarian an opportunity for endless guilt. One is the increasing acceptance of the notion that pets are family members (thus the movement to change the word owner to guardian). The other is the convergence of veterinary and human medicine—pets can get chemotherapy, dialysis, organ transplants, hip replacement, and braces for their teeth. In 2004, Americans spent $18 billion to treat the country’s 164 million dogs and cats...

Dr. James Busby, a 67-year-old veterinarian in Bemidji, Minn., sees things differently. He’s the kind of curmudgeonly realist of a vet you don’t find in the hyper-attentive yuppie neighborhood where I live. Busby has become so fed up with his profession the he has self-published a book, _How To Afford Veterinary Care Without Mortgaging the Kids_. He writes that he has had a satisfying 40-year career, “but sadly, I would never enter the profession today, if I had to practice the way things are currently done.” He sees too many vets who try to “push as many procedures and services … as the pet owner will tolerate, in order to generate as large a cash return as possible.”...

It’s just that if we’re coming to the point that we think of our pet’s health in the same way we do our own, I wish the vets I see would treat my pets more the way our doctors treat us. For example, over the years the pediatrician has heard a mild heart murmur when she has examined my daughter. But since my daughter is obviously in excellent health, the pediatrician has reassured me it’s nothing to worry about. But when the veterinarian detected a mild heart murmur in one of my cats, she immediately recommended I make an appointment with the veterinary cardiologist. What would happen to the cat if I didn’t do that? I asked. She had to acknowledge: probably nothing, but the echocardiogram only cost $300, and since my cat was a member of my family, surely I would want to do everything.


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## Hunter (Jun 25, 2019)

My dogs are everything to me. Recently I spent $ 2500 to try save my German shepherd. But she passed away anyway.
I had taken her to her to a dog park and she was rolling in the grass. The city had recently sprayed poisonous pesticides in the lawn.
She chewed her tail off, I woke up to a house full of blood. Part of her tail was amputated. But somehow the pesticides got into her blood into her body.
I said to my vet do whatever you can, just save her. I had her from a pup and she was only six.  I took her home and spoiled her rotten as I always do to my dogs. Several days later I woke up and she was gone. My other dogs were laying around her. It was heartbreaking.

I would have spent thousands more to save her. People have told me I was crazy. But it's my life and my money.


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## Daniel (Jun 25, 2019)

Yeah, I'm easily spending thousands over time just for dental cleanings since I have six pets.   And my husband thinks I am crazy, but I tell him he's the one who insisted on getting each pet we have.


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## GaryQ (Jun 25, 2019)

I like Hunter’s point “it’s my money”


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## GaryQ (Jun 25, 2019)

Daniel, ever thought of spending a wee bit less and learn to do most of this stuff yourself? And I thought dogs chewed stuff like bones for that specific reason???


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## Daniel (Jun 25, 2019)

The problems I have are mostly with being misled by well-meaning but somewhat uneducated vets who fail to realize basic things like stress alone in cats (such as during a vet visit) can temporarily create diabetic blood sugar levels.   I have also had vets create an unnecessary level of urgency. 

In my experience, vets (generally speaking) are nowhere near as thoroughly knowledgeable as human doctors.   Almost every human doctor I know is a walking Google in addition to their years of experience.  That is not the case with some/many vets.


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## GaryQ (Jun 25, 2019)

There’s a big percentage of all professionals that see someone in distress walk in and are more interested in their assets than the problem they walked in for. Greed is rampant from auto repair, funeral services, vets, dentists used car salesmen  and that’s the start of the list. They see someone walk in and start evaluating what they can add to the tests to justify bleeding as much as possible out of people in times of hardships


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## Daniel (Jun 25, 2019)

And human doctors have to worry about being sued.  Vets do not, relatively speaking.

Of course, to be fair, vets have to be surgeons, dentists, etc. all in one -- and for multiple species.


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## Hunter (Jun 26, 2019)

The people who called me crazy for spending $2500 on my dog trying to save her, but failed..are the same people who spend $600 per month on smoking, and more money on alcohol and drugs...both prescription and non prescription.  To me, that is a waste of money.
My dogs give me love and affection...and you can't put a price on that.
My husband always asks me how much money do I spend on my dogs.  I quickly say...how much do you spend on smoking and his hobbies...then I say...oh and I have a job too..where I make my own money...then that discussion quickly ends.


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## Daniel (Jun 26, 2019)

I have never heard of this $15 alternative to pre-anesthetic bloodwork (which usually costs me $65-100 USD):

Don't Opt Out of Pre-Anesthetic Lab Work | Fully Vetted | petMD

...In the case of a young pet, pre-anesthetic testing does not have to be involved or expensive. One of the most progressive clinics I’ve worked for was "okay" running only a packed cell volume (checking primarily for anemia and evaluating the color of the serum for diseases that affect the liver or red blood cells), total solids (looking mostly for infection or protein-losing diseases), and an AZO stick (a quick check of kidney function) in these individuals and proceeding if all was normal. I believe the fee for a PCV/TS/AZO was only $15, and this was in a part of the country with an exceptionally high cost of living. These simple tests require just a few drops of blood and would have picked up the kidney failure in the aforementioned dog.

For owners who chose more in depth testing, this clinic would run a complete blood count (CBC) and either six or twelve blood chemistry parameters with electrolyte levels to give us a better look into whether or not a pet could be suffering from anemia, dehydration, infection, parasitism, bone marrow dysfunction, liver disease, kidney disease, etc. Additional tests might also be recommended based on a pet’s breed and history.


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## Daniel (Jul 12, 2019)

The animal hospital in the next town over is amazing!   Free e-mail consults with the owner (head vet -- who replies within an hour or so) and free toenail clippings with each visit, even with non-exam visits for shots, etc.   They are always busy -- about a half hour late for every appointment -- but always much cheaper.  So it pays to drive the extra distance.  This is the same owner who replied to me personally on Facebook around 10 PM when I was asking a question about their practice.

We decided to change after the vet at the closer, more expensive animal hospital was not aware of a simple $99 test to rule out diabetes in a cat who has stress-induced hyperglycemia.


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## Daniel (May 29, 2020)

Glad I have learned to have some money put back for my six house pets since I have had two pets in the same week needing diagnostics.    

The 11-year-old senior dog with COPD is doing well now (and the total was less than $300 for the exam, lung x-rays, and medication -- which is not bad at all).  

But another Dachshund of ours, who is 6 years old, has what seems to be an enlarged spleen, which was palpated by two different vets during a free dental exam yesterday.  So an ultrasound of her spleen along with possible x-rays will be done by her regular vet soon, about the same time we get the bloodwork results back.    

The good news is that if her spleen does need to be removed, the cost will be about a third of what some other vets charge.  It is still shocking how much the difference is between vets.


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## Daniel (Jun 1, 2020)

Good news.  Spleen was fine, as was the bloodwork.   Partial ultrasound of the abdomen was only $115. Vet recommended brushing dogs' teeth at least twice a week as a way to space out the dental cleanings.

From a financial perspective, the ultrasound was basically free compared to the cost of surgery, so I am glad there was no need for surgery.  A spleen removal would have cost about $1700, including diagnostics.

The funny thing:  the vet, who works six days a week, was playing jealous of the pet dentists since they only work Monday to Thursday.


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## Daniel (Jul 7, 2020)

I forgot to mention I sometimes use the website JustAnswer as a way to save on vet bills for minor issues. This morning, I messaged a vet there.   For the cost of a free trial (10 cents),  she was able to diagnose the skin problem (using pictures I sent) and gave some over-the-counter recommendations (like half a pill of Zyrtec daily).  If the cat does not improve, she says the cat's regular vet will probably need to prescribe steriods.    You can also tip the vets there, and I usually do since their responses are usually within 10 minutes yet detailed.

But when my 11-year-old dog had a limp this weekend along with a very hard lump around her wrist joint, I was at the vet for the first available appointment and elected for x-rays.   The lump was just synovial fluid above her joint that needed to be drained.


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## Daniel (Sep 5, 2020)

One reason to opt for bloodwork before a feline dental cleaning:



> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21147471/
> 
> Current estimates indicate that approximately 0.11% (1 in 895 anesthetics) of healthy cats die of an anesthetic-related death, which is more than twice as frequent as has been recently reported in dogs (0.05% or 1 in 1849). Most of these deaths occurred in the postoperative period. A number of risk factors have been associated with death, including patient health status, age, weight, and procedure type and urgency.


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 5, 2020)

mg: I didn't know that! 

Two of my cats did require surgery but there were no complications from the anesthetic.

Good reminder that there are always risks to any surgery on any species and to weigh those risks against the actual need for surgery. In my case, there really was not an option (i.e., one of my cats was hit by a car and had a broken jaw so it wasn't like we could just ignore that).


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## Daniel (Sep 5, 2020)

Yeah,  I didn't know it either until I read a post by a local pet dentist.    One reason I like the animal hopsital in the next town over is they offer a package deal for dentals that includes everything, including bloodwork and any necessary pain meds, antibiotics, etc.


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## Daniel (Oct 28, 2020)

Got a free exam for my dog today at the pet dental clinic, and the vet mentioned that giving popcorn to dogs isn't great since it can lead to needing a tooth extraction.   And it doesn't take much to mess up dogs' teeth.  

For some dogs (such as those who are "overgroomed" around their mouth), even their hair around their mouth can act as a foreign body to cause tooth problems.   The vet recently had to extract four teeth in a single dog for that reason.

And I can tell people are getting less pet dentals done with the recession.  They had openings even the next day for a dental cleaning, and in the past it was more like a one or two week wait.


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## Daniel (Nov 1, 2020)

The local animal hospital that is more expensive for some things is seeming to be a better value in the long run (except for dentals or surgeries).   They are closer, have more rooms for social distancing, are always open on Sundays, and they can see you the same day usually, even for non-urgent matters.  

Today the senior dog with COPD went for a respiratory infection.  We called ahead, and they gave us an appointment for our arrival time.  There is a pet ER in the same town, but it is very expensive to go there from what I hear. 

The other animal hospital in the next town over is cheaper but is always closed on Sundays, is open fewer hours during the week, and has less staff, so they always run late and are less available for emergencies.


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## Daniel (Jan 18, 2021)

For anyone in the US, there is an insurance company for pets that sells a new, stand-alone wellness plan.    It is amazing.  You always get reimbursed within 24 hours.   I have already signed up two of my pets and have been reimbursed hundreds of dollars already.

It is also good if you have a spouse/partner who gets sticker shock for a wellness trip to the vet for the cost of vaccines, flea/tick/heartworm meds, grooming, etc.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 18, 2021)

I'd like to find a good plan in Canada (Ontario). Last time I checked them out, they were all pretty expensive.


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## Daniel (Jan 18, 2021)

So if I had a lot of capital, I could start my own company and corner the Canadian market 

:canadian:


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## Daniel (Jan 25, 2021)

A (biased) example of U.S. prices for traditional/medical pet insurance for a 2-year-old dog (somewhat more expensive than for similarly-aged cats):


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## Daniel (Jan 25, 2021)

One good thing about having seven pets is that you never have to cancel a vet appointment.  You just swap pets 

So if one pet's condition improves before the scheduled appointment, I just take another pet instead for a wellness check -- unless one of the dogs or cats starts limping or whatever


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## Daniel (Jul 22, 2021)

Why Humans Treat Their Dogs Like People
					


If you have the means, your dog can live the life style of a well-heeled sophisticate.





					www.newyorker.com
				




If you have the means, you can treat your dog not just like a human but like a rich and fancy one...

Charismatic animals tend to receive an illogical amount of human care and attention. The sadness prompted by images of a polar bear whose habitat is shrinking often outstrips the sympathy generated by a climate refugee in the same situation. I can’t remember the last time I went to the doctor for a routine checkup, but I take Luna twice a year. It’s “problematic,” the dog trainer Annie Grossman says, “to treat them like we would want to treat a person.” Dogs are meant to be dogs; they evolved to hunt, to work, and to live in packs."


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## Daniel (Jul 22, 2021)

I was shocked a couple months ago when an office manager at the pet hospital said he was billed almost $8,000 for his dog's orthopedic surgery on two limbs.    And that was with his employee discount.     If he had shopped around, I assume he could have gotten a much better price.   For me, the limit would probably be $2,000 or so for a surgery on a single dog.


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## Daniel (Jul 30, 2021)

What is CareCredit? | CareCredit
					


With CareCredit healthcare financing is made easy. Whether you use your healthcare credit card for your deductible, or to pay for treatments and procedures not covered by insurance, CareCredit helps make the health, wellness and beauty treatments and procedures you want possible today.





					www.carecredit.com
				


​Complex and Emergency Care Costs​ 

*Dogs**Cats*Cancer$4,137$3,282Cancer Treatment-Chemotherapy$4,000$4,000Diabetes$2,892$1,634Ophthalmology$319$227Stomach Foreign Object$3,262$2,955Broken Bone$2,371$2,257Arthritis$724$490Dental Disease/Periodontitis$519$768Bladder/Urinary Tract Infection$424$1,053Kidney Disease (feline)-$1,318Heart Murmur$1,140$1,440


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## Daniel (Jul 30, 2021)

In general, I consider myself lucky if a vet visit, including medications, costs less than $100 for any symptom at all.

My mom has been having to take her puppy to the vet almost weekly due to various problems -- UTI, allergies, sinus infection, etc -- one after the other.   She has been joking: "There goes your inheritance." 

On the positive side, the cost of vet care makes my psychotherapy co-pays seem cheap  My dog's swollen eye cost $167 today since that included $50 for an eye stain check.  (And it could have been over $200, but I already had meloxicam for dogs at home.)


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 31, 2021)

My son's previous dog rang up a bill for over $5000 a few years back (I think the final bill was about $7000) with all sorts of fancy tests and scans (this is a vet in the city that prides itself on having all the latest greatest diagnostic equipment with the corresponding "latest greatest price tags").

They all came back negative.

They then decided to do exploratory surgery and found half a frisby stuck in his digestive track. If they had started with that instead of all the fancy tests the bill would have been just a few hundred. That's a vet no one in our family will ever use again.


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## Daniel (Jul 31, 2021)

> "latest greatest price tags"



Haha!  They don't have CT scanners in my county for pets and not many in Phoenix.   So the most expensive things are usually surgeries at an emergency clinic, e.g:



> We were quoted $8000-$13000 for surgery to take the obstruction out. After taking our puppy to our normal vet she completed the surgery and saved our puppy for $1200.



I talked to my mother today, and I found out her animal hospital in Tennessee doesn't charge for visits. There is just an annual fee of $50.  They make their money from medications and procedures.    Still not worth the humidity of Tennessee though


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## Daniel (Nov 11, 2021)

The prices went way up at my regular animal hospital for everything except exams.  So I shopped around and found a vet that recently started a new office, and she (Dr. Baxter) was very nice and has great reviews at Google.

The bloodwork is less than half the price of the previous animal hospital.  Same with dental cleanings ($320 vs. $600+), which include bloodwork.  I previously went to a low-cost dental clinic.  But since my senior dog is 13 years old and has chronic bronchitis, I didn't want to take any chances.

So now "Dr. Baxter" has a double meaning since that is also the name of my new, less expensive vet.  The only luxury I am missing out on is the old animal hospital would always run on time since they have many vets and lots of other staff.     At the new vet, the wait is about the same as my primary care doctor (30+ minutes).


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## Daniel (Dec 13, 2021)

My new vet, Dr. Baxter, did not disappoint.   She only charged $5 extra per extraction during my 12-year-old dachshund's dental cleaning last week.    So now I will be taking all my pets there, especially since the senior/comprehensive bloodwork is only $85.

Since her prices are so low, I will be using her online pharmacy for everything I can, instead of trying to save a few dollars by going to Petco.com or Chewy.com.  Part of the reason vet prices have gone up is vets have lost so much business to competing pharmacies.   I remember when a vet exam was only $10 (about three decades ago).

I have even switched my own dentist recently since he has raised his prices twice already during the pandemic, despite already being more expensive than most.   The new dentist does a more comfortable cleaning, anyway.


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## Daniel (Jan 8, 2022)

U.S. pet doctors steel themselves for online pharmacy challenge
					


A David and Goliath battle is brewing in the business of selling prescription medicines for pets, pitching veterinarians against online giants moving into this lucrative corner of the growing market for animal supplies.





					www.reuters.com
				




According to a 2018 TD Ameritrade online survey of U.S. millennial pet owners, they were willing to spend up to $2,000 on average if their pet got sick, with dog owners prepared to spend more on their pets than what they expected to spend on their own healthcare.


----------



## Daniel (Jan 8, 2022)

"Many emergencies are preventable with regular annual physical examinations and preventative care such as vaccinations and spaying/neutering."  (source)


----------



## Daniel (Jan 19, 2022)

One thing I have noticed over the years:  Vet hospitals/offices that give a free wellness exam during annual vaccines have more reasonable prices on dental cleanings, surgeries, bloodwork, etc.


----------



## Daniel (Feb 2, 2022)

My findings today after a vet visit for my dog's chronic bronchitis, which continues to be treated with oral prednisone:

Short-acting albuterol is one of several cheap oral/inhaled bronchodilators, but albuterol is more helpful for cats than dogs since cats are far more likely to have asthma.

For longer-term maintenance therapy, inhalers for pet COPD can be quite expensive, in the hundreds of dollars a month.  Advair is available by generic in human pharmacies, but not as a traditional (metered-dose) inhaler (which is what pets need).  Fortunately, Symbicort became available as a generic a while ago and is as low as $140 at Walgreens.   If it was not for the cost, my vet would recommend the Flovent inhaler, which is what she uses herself for her own bronchitis.

(Though inhalers are even less expensive at Canadian pharmacies, "virtually all Canadian pharmacies that ship prescription drugs to U.S. consumers violate U.S. law.")


----------



## Daniel (Feb 2, 2022)

For a minority of medications, ordering prescriptions online with Amazon Prime Rx results in even lower prices than GoodRx.   In addition to GoodRx, I also use an independent pharmacy that uses its own discount program.



> Larry the Chiweenie Saves 65% on His COPD Pet Medicine
> 
> Larry, more affectionately known as Junior at home, is an eight-year old Chiweenie. (For dog newbies like me, a Chiweenie is a cross between a Chihuahua and a Dachshund.) He was adopted from the Humane Society by Kayla three years ago, joining a family of two cats and another dog, Cash the pitbull.
> 
> ...


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## Daniel (Feb 3, 2022)

As a veterinarian, what do you wish more people knew?
					


Answer (1 of 12): Maybe this sounds like common sense. Maybe it’s borne out of a pet peeve of mine. But here it goes:  Animals feel pain.  Yes, you say, of course animals feel pain. But in the course of private practice I was dumbfounded on nearly a daily basis on the cues the typical pet owner r...





					www.quora.com
				




The problem with chronic pain is that you often don’t know it exists until it’s taken away.

Don’t even get me started on cats. They are the masters at hiding their pain, yet they suffer from the same incidence of arthrits as dogs. Yep, they hurt too.

~ Michael D Lacopo
D.V.M. Veterinary Medicine, Purdue University (1991)


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## Daniel (Feb 4, 2022)

Bronchitis In Dogs: Symptoms & Treatments | Trudell Animal Health
					


Canine chronic bronchitis is a potentially life-threatening condition if left untreated. Learn about the symptoms of dog bronchitis, how it is diagnosed, and how to treat it.





					www.trudellanimalhealth.com
				




With treatment, most dogs with COPD enjoy a normal life expectancy and an excellent quality of life.


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## Daniel (Feb 5, 2022)

My new favorite for pet insurance -- which is only available in some US states:









						ManyPets Pet Insurance Review 2023
					


ManyPets offers some unique and valuable coverage features, such as reducing the accident and illness waiting period to 24 hours if you switch over from another pet insurance company. It also has very competitive pricing that makes it worth a look if it’s available in your state.  More: Best Pet I





					www.forbes.com
				




The big attraction:  It has a great wellness plan that more than pays for itself, including reimbursement for wellness exams, dental cleanings, vaccines, heartworm/flea/tick prevention, and even buying shampoo and supplements.

I got the insurance for my large dog since he is outside more often, likes to bark at rattlesnakes, etc.    I also got a plan for my oldest cat.   For cats, the cost is only about $10 a month and an additional $20/month for the optional wellness plan.

As I mentioned before, another reason I like wellness plans and pet insurance is they reduce spousal/relationship friction about how much to spend on fluffy


----------



## Daniel (Feb 18, 2022)

But for basically cash on the spot for emergencies, this plan seems quite innovative and affordable.  

The cost is only $24/month, which is the same price if you have one pet or six pets:









						Pawp: Ask A Vet Anything 24/7 & Get $3,000 When You Need It Most
					


A 24/7, on-demand online vet for all pet questions on health, emergencies, nutrition and behavior. Ask a vet anything and get your vet bill paid.





					pawp.com


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## Daniel (Mar 4, 2022)

Help with pet veterinary costs
					


In 2017 alone, it is estimated that pet veterinary costs comprised as much as 25% of the nearly $70 billion Americans spent on their animals.




					www.petsforpatriots.org
				




United States Department of Veteran Affairs​Pays for routine veterinary care and equipment for veterans’ service dogs; exclusions apply.

Dogs On Deployment​Provides financial assistance to qualifying service members E-6 ranks and below, and non-active veterans on an individual basis. Individuals can apply for grants for routine and emergency care, as well as for costs related to PCS travel with pets.

Frankie’s Friends​Helps with the treatment of emergency and specialty medical conditions where the pet would otherwise suffer, be euthanized, or relinquished without proper veterinary care. Grants capped at $1,000 per pet/household.

The Mosby Foundation​Programs offering financial assistance for critical care, cancer treatment, and spay/neuter, respectively.

Red Rover Relief Grants​Provides assistance grants for life-threatening or urgent veterinary needs for pets who have a promising outcome. Offers grants to help pets of domestic violence victims be sheltered or housed safely.

The Pet Fund​Provides financial aid for pets who need non-basic, non-urgent care.

Best Friends Animal Society​Offers a listing of resources by state and breed, as well as for individuals who are disabled or have assistance animals.

Trio Animal Foundation​Helps shelters, rescues, and individuals pay medical bills of homeless pets. After medical care, each pet is teamed with a therapy dog for emotional healing.
Red Rover​Provides a listing of organizations that provide financial assistance for veterinary care, organized by state/national, disease, breed, and other factors.
Humane Society of the United States​Listing provides both national and state-by-state listing of various organizations, funds, etc. for low/no-cost veterinary care.
Care Credit​Offers payment plans for individuals who need help with various types of bills, including veterinary care.
American Veterinary Medical Foundation​Offers charitable veterinary services to individuals facing personal hardships, as well as a means to support animals who are injured or rescued from abuse and neglect. Requests for support must come directly licensed AVMA veterinarians. A new Wetterberg Foundation Grant for Veterans is available for up to requests up to $1,000 made by AVMA veterinarians who are treating veterans’ companion dogs or professionally trained service animals.
Handicapped Pets Foundation​Donates mobility equipment to pets in need.
Magic Bullet Fund​Helps pay for canine cancer treatment only.
Live Like Roo​Support and financial assistance for pets with cancer.
FACE Foundation​Helps San Diego pet guardians with the cost of emergency veterinary care.
Pets of the Homeless​Provides food and emergency medical care to the pets of homeless individuals. Searchable state-by-state directory of assistance locations.
Waggle​Pet-focused crowdfunding site that works directly with treating veterinarians.
Accredited veterinary colleges​These teaching hospitals often have programs that provide limited low-cost veterinary care to the public.
Barter services​Ask your pet’s treating veterinarian if there are any projects or odd jobs for which they need assistance. If you have the skills to help, find out if you can barter in exchange for all or part of your pet’s medical bill.
You may have skills in light construction, customer service, or computer technology or programming that are valuable to your veterinarian’s practice. Perhaps they need an extra hand to clean their clinic, make deliveries, or other valuable tasks.


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## Daniel (Mar 23, 2022)

Daniel said:


> My new favorite for pet insurance -- which is only available in some US states:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am switching from ManyPets to Embrace, which is way more popular and has its own app.  (Also, ManyPets takes much longer to process claims, even a wellness claim.)



> Pre-Certification Process for Claims | EMBRACE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Daniel (Mar 29, 2022)

My negative review for the largest pet hospital in my area:



> Like most vets, they do not offer abdominal ultrasounds as part of a senior wellness package. Instead, they offer overpriced blood work, barely affordable x-rays, and everything else they can nickle and dime you for (fecal tests, heartworm tests, etc).  At a minimum, they should waive the wellness fee if you get all the senior testing done.   But they would never do that here.
> 
> And it is surreal that they charge $800 for a dental cleaning here.    Got multiple pets?  Go elsewhere!


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2022)

If I had more emotional stability, I would consider going to vet school myself at this point to specialize in something non-surgical like respiratory therapy, palliative care, etc. But I can burnout in dealing with a sick dog at home.  I couldn't image a line of them.

Right now, I have a formal complaint against a vet for several reasons, including telling my dog with cancer to lose weight.

Another vet spent more time with me wanting to know why I cancelled a dental cleaning with lots of notice -- instead of what to do about my dog's chronic side effects from prednisone, namely hunger.


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## David Baxter PhD (Mar 30, 2022)

I'm lucky to have a veterinary clinic that is reasonably priced and very compassionate.

Better still, I found one of those vets seems to be particularly good with cats; Mindy almost likes going to see him except for the cat carrier and the car ride. 

But Ottawa is probably like most cities with a real mix of vets, some who are very expensive and more interested in using their expensive diagnostic machines instead of actually examining the animal and finding out what is really wrong with the poor animal. One of my sons went there with a sick dog and after $5000 the vert decided on exploratory surgery where he discovered half a chewed up Frisbie - which was why he was in pain and not eating.

All that $5000 was a waste of money and they all somehow missed the Frisbie. Moral of the story: (1) medicine first, then fancy equipment; and (2) if you're going to buy fancy technology and sell it as services to customers and patients, make sure you are properly trained in its use and interpretation of the results. This was half a Frisbie: A CT scan should have detected that.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2022)

The whole industry is messed up to me.  Like others, I don't expect human-grade care with $30,000 treatments.  But I expect some science/research/clinical trials going on--even just to make money selling a drug to pet owners.  And such research could eventually help human pharma.

This is the second dog I have had who is hungry much of the time with prednisone.   It is heartbreaking since it has been going on for over a year.   It's a common problem, but the two vets I have seen are mostly dismissive about it.  So I when I bring it up, it is like pulling teeth to get alternatives prescribed.  So I am now again looking for another vet.

I may eventually try a specialist, but they are very hard to find for respiratory/pulmonary issues, even in Phoenix.  Most specialists are in cardiac care or even eye care.  And some specialists are not necessarily better than the average vet.  One negative review for a heart specialist in my area:



> He diagnosed my dog with pulmonary hypertension - this is literally life or death for my dog and it appears he could care less. Spend your hard earned money elsewhere. At this point I don't even know if he has been diagnosed correctly.


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## David Baxter PhD (Mar 30, 2022)

I had to take Prednisone back in 2008 for a while after some leg surgery and stents in my leg and abdominal aorta. Had the same side-effects — eating everything that was close enough, but I didn't necessarily feel hungry, just wanted to be chewing on and eating something.

My doctors at the time just basically said it was a known side-effect. No comments on managing the side-effects.

Mind you, I was only taking it for a few months, not for the rest of my life. The doctor (who was my surgeon, by the way) knew that and knew the side-effect would subside when I stopped taking the drug. I suspect his advice would have different if he had known it was going to be indefinitely and not just a few months.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2022)

My dog is so desperate for food she has fallen a few times trying to get the cat's food.  She wakes up before the other dogs, looking for food.   She is looking for food right now.  On the positive side, the searching for food does give her exercise.

I feed her low calorie or low carb snacks throughout the day and also give her rawhide chews, but it doesn't seem to help much.

(And, of course, from an animal rights point of view, dogs are not able to consent to take these medications -- unlike humans.)


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## David Baxter PhD (Mar 30, 2022)

Poor thing... 🙁


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2022)

Yeah, she goes through phases where some days/weeks are worse than others.  It is worse this week, but I just got some new ideas I am going to ask the next vet about, e.g. anxiety medication like trazodone to lower her cortisol-based hunger motivation.  She was on trazodone before (25 mg twice a day) for anxiety anyway.

I had thought of this before, but at the time, she wasn't doing as well regarding her breathing because she was on a lower dose of prednisone.  Since I learned to listen to her lungs with a stethoscope,  I can adjust her prednisone sooner than later since the dose is somewhat variable and based on how well she is doing.

If I ever find an easy, affordable solution, I am going to share it all over the Internet and even pay for Google Ads to let every dog owner know who searches for dog + prednisone


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2022)

Clinical Trials Database:



			AAHSD Study Search


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2022)

One Arizona pet owner cautions about his experience with the state’s veterinary medical examining board after the tragic loss of his cat - Northeast Valley News
					


Every state has its own version of a veterinary medical examining board whose primary function is to ensure that an often-unsuspecting public is kept safe from negligent or incompetent veterinarians. Many pet owners in Arizona do not have appropriate protection for their pets with regard to...





					nevalleynews.org
				




In the last four years, approximately 400 complaints have been reviewed by the Arizona State Veterinary Medical Examining Board, where pet owners have alleged everything from serious injury to death of their pet(s) while in the care of a veterinarian.

Reviewing the publicly available complaints, approximately 80% were dismissed and frequently, through a unanimous board vote...

It was hard to fathom the board letting these vets completely off the hook with all this evidence staring them in the face, but they did...

Unfortunately, I found my experience with the Arizona State Veterinary Medical Examining Board to be the norm, not the exception.

At a time when the number of licensed veterinarians is skyrocketing nationally, and going from 2000 to nearly 3000 in a few short years in Arizona, more, not less oversight, is needed. Trying to find a quality vet for a beloved pet is more challenging than ever.

I devised an easy four-step method that can hopefully help pet owners find qualified and competent veterinarians. I call it the *HARPER Care Method*, or—Help Animals Receive Proper Essential Restorative Care.

Check the reviews on both Google and Yelp by looking for the names of the veterinary practices. Use the sort feature to get to the lowest rated one and two-star listings. Read those and cross vets off your list that did something to a pet that you would not want to happen to your pet. Keep in mind that some businesses pay for and even post phony positive reviews. This is why you look through the bad ones.
Make certain that the veterinary practice is AAHA accredited. Simply enter your zip code. This national veterinary organization has much more rigorous standards than the state minimum.
Check your state’s veterinarian licensee directory, which lists the vets’ discipline database. Arizona’s is here. You search here by the veterinarians’ name. Any case that resulted in discipline should be listed, helping to narrow your list.
Find a place that is somewhat close and convenient to you. Ideally, the closest one to you that passes the first three steps.
I believe that if I had used a checklist like this…Harper would still be alive today as the vet we took him to would have failed.

Both in Harper’s case with the state’s veterinary examining board and the seven years of cases I have personally and painstakingly reviewed—having an attorney on only one side (the side representing veterinarians) has resulted in obvious inequitable decisions...


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2022)

I just used the above method and already made an appointment for Friday (using the vet hospital's real-time appointment tool).  The vet hospital is the same one my husband suggested earlier today since we drive by it all the time.  I did not realize until now they were accredited.  It is also good for chronic cases since they offer unlimited exams for a monthly rate.


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2022)

One of many reasons the vet board is so lax in AZ:



> For your information the chair of the board is Jim loughead, he is an animal vaccine salesman that works for Boheimer Animal pharmaceutical company…. this is very clearly where he gets his customers and it’s a huge conflict of interest that he would be the chair of the board in Arizona when his livelihood and his job depends on selling animal vaccines to veterinarians… outrageous…


Source:  comment section


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2022)

Lessons From Veterinary Gaslighting
					


What happened when a vet used my love for my cat against me





					medium.com
				




_You_ stuck me with this exorbitant bill much higher than the agreed upon cost, made me feel guilty for not wanting to make it even higher, never bothered to tell me what was wrong with my cat, made it clear you didn’t give a shit about her one way or another, and you have the nerve to ask _me_ for a donation?


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2022)

How Much Should People Pay to Save Their Sick Pets?
					


When our 5-month-old kitten, Jasper, went into kidney failure a few years ago, letting him die wasn’t an option. We rushed him to our veterinarian, who...





					slate.com
				




We live in a society that increasingly allows us to spend our way out of almost any dilemma. Yet no matter how hard we try, we can’t make our pets live as long as we do. Attempting to do so could put us in the poor house. At some point, the sentimental relationship we have with our pets has to become an economic one. If we do make that ultimate decision, however, we can console ourselves with having given our animals the best life possible. After all, any cat or dog that has escaped living on the street or in a cage in a shelter has won the lottery, regardless of whether we spring for that kidney transplant.


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## Daniel (Apr 1, 2022)

At the top of a holistic vet's reply to my e-mail inquiry about palliative care:



> "CASH OR CHECKS ONLY. THANK YOU"



At least she is more honest about her motivations than some other vets 

The primary advantage though with having a "holistic" vet is they typically spend much more time with you.   But the animal hospital I am going to today has an "unlimited exams" plan, if you need more frequent visits for some intractable problems.


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## Daniel (Apr 1, 2022)

David Baxter said:


> Had the same side-effects — eating everything that was close enough, but I didn't necessarily feel hungry, just wanted to be chewing on and eating something. My doctors at the time just basically said it was a known side-effect



That is what the vet said today.   She is not really hungry.  With the prednisone, she is more like other dogs who are just very food motivated.   He switched her to a different oral steroid to see if that helps, both with the food seeking and her bronchitis.

We go back in a week for a recheck, and all exams are "free" with VCA hospital's monthly wellness plan, including annual bloodwork, x-rays, etc.  So the dog with cancer is going on a wellness plan too since he may need even more follow ups.   And you can always cancel and get a refund, minus any services that the plan paid for.  So it is not like a gym membership where you are stuck.

It was a long, very educational visit.  The vet is the director there and has more years of experience than our previous vets, which is why I picked him.  Without the wellness plan, their prices are higher than average for some services, but it is a much more professional experience over there so far -- no pulling of teeth to get answers.

(VCA is in Canada too where they also have a wellness plan.)


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## Daniel (Apr 2, 2022)

For animal care, things are so bad that corporations may actually be animals' best bet--the lesser of two evils.   VCA has 1000+ hospitals and is owned by Mars, Inc. ("the company known for Snickers candy bars and Pedigree dog food").  Animal hospital/clinic chains like VCA, Banfield, and AniCura (in Europe) are all under the same corporate umbrella of Mars Petcare. So they can only have more rules, protocols and standardized care than a single animal hospital. Even VCA's website provides way more information than some mom-and-pop vets and private equity hospitals about some issues, like feline hyperthyroidism.

Not only does Mars have their own laboratories for bloodwork (which could give them lots of healthcare data), but they also have their own radiologists to interpret x-rays if need be (at $110+ for interpretation, but could save lots of money down the line by preventing misdiagnosis or unnecessary surgery).

Mars also funds its own research institute:









						AI-driven diagnostic can predict chronic kidney disease in cats two years early | WALTHAM
					


Antech Diagnostics, part of Mars Petcare, has launched a new diagnostic tool that was developed using artificial intelligence and veterinary records. The resulting biomarker model allows the accurate prediction of the disease that is the number one cause of death for cats over the age of five...





					www.waltham.com
				




In stark contrast, a small sample of Google reviews for the CVO (vet collage/board in Ontario, Canada):


> In our opinion veterinarians should be government regulated. CVO seems prejudicial against the public & shows favor/bias towards vets.





> This institution does not protect the public from veterinarians who perform well below practice standards. Even when the complaints committee determines that important standards have been breached by veterinarians and even when animals are harmed or die due to the actions of such veterinarians, offending vets seldom receive anything more than mildly worded written “advice”. Almost entirely lacking in transparency, the CVO does not post information about negligent, substandard veterinarians on the public register, unless the veterinarians have been disciplined. Few are disciplined. As a result, members of the public lack critical information they could use to protect themselves and their animal friends.
> 
> Be sure to ask any vet you see about the risks, dangers, and alternatives to a procedure that he or she wants to perform on your pet. Resist any tendency to decide based on “trust”.



Google reviews for Arizona's vet board:



> This Board is supposed to be advocates, not only for us, but for our innocent animals that are often disregarded and looked at as cash money.  My Benny was sent home to die and he was worse off than he was prior to surgery; a surgery that should not have been done.





> First off, if you are expecting veterinarians to be held accountable for what they have done to your pet you won't get it here.  The best they will do is fine them, maybe probation and a slap on the wrist.  The vet will have an attorney.  Good luck trying to find an attorney to help you.  It is already stacked against you and the board has no desire to make the proceedings equitable.
> 
> They say they investigate, but very very secretive what they do.  An investigation should be gathering all the information and talking to all parties about the situation and any differences in each side has off the situation.  They do none of that.
> 
> ...





> I filed a complaint and it took 3 meetings and  8 months to get to the point where the Vet actually showed up. I had the pleasure of listening to the Vet lie under Oath to a group of his peers. That's all I expected and it was gratifying .


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## Daniel (Apr 4, 2022)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/home/is-pet-insurance-worth-it/2018/10/23/64ff3dfa-ccb1-11e8-a3e6-44daa3d35ede_story.html
		


*Every six seconds a pet owner faces a vet bill of $1,000 or more*, according to PetInsuranceQuotes.com, an online marketplace. Pet insurers also cite this statistic. That sounds scary, but in a country of 185 million cats and dogs, that's about a 3 percent chance over a year.


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## Daniel (Apr 17, 2022)

Relatively low cost cancer treatment for dogs:









						Palladia® (toceranib) in Dogs & Cats - The Pet Oncologist
					


Your vet just recommended Palladia® to treat your pet’s cancer. What is Palladia®? What are the pros & cons? How frequent are the visits? What are the side effects? Here are some answers to some frequently asked questions about Palladia® in dogs & cats.





					www.thepetoncologist.com
				






> Metronomic Chemotherapy for Dogs with Cancer
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most of the cost is in followup bloodwork (basic bloodwork like CBC).

In human and increasingly pet medicine, common medications are being repurposed for cancer therapy. Low-cost prednisone or piroxicam (never both) is often prescribed for anti-tumor effects (and/or pain management). The beta blocker propranolol has been used in a recent clinical study for a canine cancer:






						AKC Canine Health Foundation | Clinical evaluation of propranolol in combination with doxorubicin for the treatment of hemangiosarcoma
					







					www.akcchf.org
				




So polypharmacy may be a benefit in elder pets--as it is in humans:


> Polypharmacy in the elderly on immunotherapy: Problem or opportunity? Venniyoor A - Cancer Res Stat Treat
> 
> Current evidence is confined to combinations with agents such as bevacizumab and tyrosine kinase inhibitors in cancers such as of liver and kidney;[7] these needed extensive trials to ensure safety and are expensive. *It* *is known that commonly used drugs such as metformin, propranolol, antiepileptics, antibiotics, and angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors have similar immune stimulant and anti-angiogenic properties.*


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## Daniel (Apr 19, 2022)

There are 12+ million cases of pet cancer at any time. Most cases are treated without an oncologist.  (There are less than 500 board-certified vet oncologists in the US.)  If a consultation is wanted, an online video consultation is becoming more the norm--but is between the regular vet and the oncologist (and costs the pet owner up to $300 or so).

For pet owners that are on the fence, oncologists will often recommend trying something for a little while and just going from there.   In cases where there is no standard treatment, Palladia is often used or part of a treatment plan.

More info regarding lower-cost cancer treatment:






						Advances in Cancer Treatment - TuftsYourDog
					


As recently as a decade ago, when a dog came in with cancer that had spread, “there was often nothing we could do,” says Tufts veterinary oncologist Carrie Wood, DVM. “We just put them on palliative care.” But there are new drugs that have “definitely been game changers in the last 10 years,”...





					www.tuftsyourdog.com
				



*Palladia* also has some pathways that help activate the immune system to fight the spread of cancer. “We call the result stable disease,” Dr. Wood says. “It can last anywhere from 3 months to a year. That doesn’t sound like a lot of time,” the doctor says, “but compare it to 2 to 3 weeks. It gives human family members time to adjust to the reality. It gives time to say good-bye.”









						Metronomic Chemotherapy for Dogs with Cancer
					


What is Metronomic Chemotherapy? Metronomic chemotherapy is a relatively new type of chemotherapy that uses low doses of oral (pulse) chemotherapy given on a continuous treatment schedule. Since it…





					www.dogcancerblog.com
				



Personally, when I start these protocols I re-check every two weeks for four to six weeks. After that, I start re-checking every four to six weeks, depending on the case. *At these visits, I am doing my exam, comparing weight, running some basic blood work,  and periodically checking tumor response (which often requires chest X-rays or ultrasound, depending, again on the case). *If we are having side effects, I may adjust the dose adjustments and/or take a treatment break.


*2016 AAHA Oncology Guidelines for Dogs and Cats* 
*Every primary-care companion animal practice will encounter canine and feline oncology cases. A successful, full-service practice should be prepared to diagnose, stage, and treat cancer in dogs and cats*, and should have a relationship with veterinary oncology specialists for purposes of selective case referrals. Cancer cases are often among the most sensitive and challenging that a practitioner will encounter. Few areas of expertise can do more to strengthen a practice’s relationship with its clients...


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## Daniel (Apr 20, 2022)

Youtube comment:

"I'm an MD and yes, the system in medicine whether veterinarian or human is totally broken.  Its driven by money.  I'm so sorry this happened to you.  Medicine is no longer a calling, its a business."


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## Daniel (Apr 20, 2022)

Chemotherapy for solid tumors: What is the evidence? - VetBloom blog
					


End-tidal carbon dioxide monitoring (ETCO2) has clinical uses far beyond solely determining hypo- or hyperventilation.




					blog.vetbloom.com
				




Palliative chemotherapy can be considered for metastatic disease or for the primary tumor that has not been treated with surgery...

While response to injectable therapy has been disappointing in treating metastatic disease, a study evaluating the biological activity of Palladia in solid tumors demonstrated close to 50% clinical activity in 23 dogs with metastatic osteosarcoma (10 dogs with stable disease and 1 with a partial response) (London et al.).


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## Daniel (Apr 20, 2022)

Palladia (at $20-$30 dollars per week for smaller pets, when taken three times a week) is practically free compared to its most similar human-drug counterpart, sunitinib.


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## Daniel (Apr 21, 2022)

Is My Dog Dying Right Now? Read Chapter 3: Three Common Questions About Dog Cancer
					


Is my dog dying right now? Why didn’t my vet catch this earlier? How did this happen overnight? Dr. D answers the three most common dog cancer questions.





					www.dogcancerblog.com
				




....Helplessness can cause vets a great deal of stress. The vet might try to avoid that feeling, without realizing it. He might go numb and make an insensitive comment. He might be unaware of the latest options for cancer treatments, and give up too soon. He might tell you “There’s no point in doing anything now, it’s too late. Take your dog home and prepare for the end.”


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## Daniel (Apr 21, 2022)

*Palladia: All Dogs are Good Candidates*​


			https://tripawds.com/2016/04/20/tripawd-cancer-news-aaha2016/
		


Palladia is one of the most exciting drugs to treat animal cancer patients in decades. “It has a very high overall response rate, better than single agent chemotherapy and similar to multi-agent chemotherapies,” Dr. Bergman explained. “We now know that for dogs with metastic osteosarcoma, these dogs can actually have six months, nine months, 12 months with metastatic tumors that respond to Palladia!” he told us.

But like anything, Palladia has side effects. For starters, “It’s not a trivial expense drug,” he said. “It’s also a drug you can get into trouble with if you use the wrong dose,” warned Dr. Bergman. He went on to explain the importance of a veterinarian taking time to warn pet parents about all possible side effects. For example, if a dog stops eating while taking Palladia, things can rapidly escalate into a life-threatening situation. “I’ve been using the drug 15 or 16 years and I still learn from it. It’s such a bizarre drug in some of the types of side effects,” he said.

We asked Dr. Bergman, “Which dogs are good candidates for Palladia?” He explained that all dogs are good candidates for Palladia, with the exception of dogs who have a history of gastrointestinal issues. For all the rest, it doesn’t matter how big the mets are, “We’ve seen dogs go a year out on it,” he told us.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 21, 2022)

Palladia, First Dog Cancer Drug FDA Approved But Not Great
					


Palladia, the first drug officially approved for use in treating dog cancer has arrived.  This was described in the Dog Cancer Survival Guide by it’s pre-market name, SU11654. Now it’s …





					www.dogcancerblog.com
				




Our dog kali was diagnosed with kidney cancer 3.5 years ago. The kidney was removed and the cancer returned and was diagnosed in April, 2010. Our Vet. an instructor at Washington State University Vet. School and on the Phfizer advisory board for Palladia recoomended Palladia. He was quite straight forward and did not promise anything, stating that not all dogs can accept the treatment i.e. they get pretty sick. We have been very fortunate. 

Kali has lived a normal life for the past 18 months. We give her 80mg of Palladia on M, W, and Friday. My wife is an avid walker and Kali has joined her 3-4 times a week for a walk of 4-8 miles. Other than her coat turning lighter, one would not know she had cancer. 

The doctors were straight forward and said we might get another year if her system could accept Palladia, which it did. We got 18 months. Unfortunately the cancer has finally overtaken the Palladia and she is now coughing up blood. X-rays show the cancer has advanced in her lungs. This has all happened in about two weeks with each day a liitle worse. We will be putting her down soon. Needless to say we are devastated, but are fortunate that she was able to tolerate the Palladia and give us another 18 months of joy.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 21, 2022)

Daniel said:


> Palladia (at $20-$30 dollars per week for smaller pets, when taken three times a week) is practically free compared to its most similar human-drug counterpart, sunitinib.











						New Hope for Canines and Kids with Bone Cancer - Flint Animal Cancer Center
					


Drs. Steve Dow and Dan Regan, are collaborating with pediatric oncologists to study a new therapy to treat metastatic bone cancer in dogs and kids.





					www.csuanimalcancercenter.org
				




[The researchers] Regan and Dow selected one of the drugs in this class (losartan) to evaluate the effect in mouse tumor studies. These studies showed strong activity using losartan alone in helping control the growth of metastatic tumors.  When combined with a second drug, sunitinib, a targeted cancer drug that also has immune-modulatory properties, studies in mice showed even greater activity.

-------

Related research using an antihypertensive for renal cell carcinoma and other cancers:









						Repurposing propranolol as an antitumor agent in von Hippel-Lindau disease
					


OBJECTIVE Von Hippel-Lindau disease (VHL) is a tumor predisposition syndrome characterized by CNS hemangioblastomas (HBs) and clear cell renal cell carcinomas (RCCs) due to hypoxia-inducible factor activation (pseudohypoxia). Because of the lack of effective medical therapies for VHL, HBs and...





					thejns.org
				












						The therapeutic potential of losartan in lung metastasis of colorectal cancer
					


Colorectal cancer (CRC) is a common cancer with a high incidence rate. Components of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS) have been reported to be dysregulated in several malignancies including CRC. Here, we have explored the potential anti-metastatic effects ...





					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				









						Google Scholar
					







					scholar.google.com
				









						Google Scholar
					







					scholar.google.com
				









						Google Scholar
					







					scholar.google.com


----------



## Daniel (Apr 26, 2022)

Sign the Petition
					


Stop Price Gauging Emergency Vet Services





					www.change.org
				




I ended up racking up over $7,000 dollars in debt and still lost one of my best friends. This experience has opened my eyes to the lack of government oversight and regulations of veterinarian clinics.


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 26, 2022)

Daniel said:


> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This sounds very much like what happened with my son's dog several years ago, the one with half a frisbie stuck in his stomach. They ran up a bill of $5000 with all of their fancy tests and machines and somehow missed half a frisbie until they finally did exploratory surgery. A**holes.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 27, 2022)

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspxpid=19239&catid=102919&id=7996830/default.aspxpid=19239&catid=102896&id=10134873&ind=1611&objtypeid=10/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102894&id=4952997&ind=1690&objTypeID=1007
		


It is permissible to use an approved human drug in an animal if it is less expensive, even if there is an animal drug available. However, you cannot use an approved animal drug from one species in another species just because it is less expensive.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 27, 2022)

Does illegal OTC drug use by pet owners contribute to heartworm resistance?
					


Differing rules for pet, livestock antiparasitic products questioned





					news.vin.com
				




By not giving a sufficient dose of the drug, parasites that are somewhat resistant are able to live and reproduce, passing on the trait of resistance to new generations. 

For that reason, Peregrine agrees with Leslie that OTC availability of heartworm medications is worrisome. “If we’re going to seriously address resistance, my own opinion is that you should ban OTC sales,” he says.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 28, 2022)

This Blood Test Detects Cancer in Dogs. But Do You Want to Know?
					


A startup just showed that its OncoK9 test accurately sounds the alarm for aggressive and advanced cancers. The catch? These often have no cure.





					www.wired.com
				




“It's hard knowing you're going to lose your dog, but you don't know when.  I'd rather have that, and cherish the time that we have with her, than one day lose her and not know that she had cancer.”


----------



## Daniel (Apr 29, 2022)

Our Dog Has Cancer and We're Not Treating It. Stop Judging Me.
					


The sticker shock of giving Jack another year made the discussion almost academic





					time.com
				




To be a pet owner these days means inevitably exposing one’s self to varying helpings of guilt at every stage. Breeder or shelter? Crate, dogwalker or doggie day care? Treat the disease or let him die?

But I don’t want to feel guilty. We will have enough emotions to contend with. We’re going to brace ourselves and then we will grieve. It’s going to be a crappy time. But we believe this is the right choice. You may not. That’s fine. We won’t judge you, so don’t judge us.


----------



## Daniel (Apr 30, 2022)

My favorite online pet pharmacy in the US for consistently cheap drug prices, including for uncommon and/or compounded medications:






						PetMart Pharmacy | Quality Pet Medications and Supplies
					


PetMart Pharmacy is owned and operated by licensed, practicing veterinarians. We are Vet VIPPS accredited from the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy. Find all your pet's prescription and non-prescription medications at prices you can afford.





					www.petmartpharmacy.com


----------



## Daniel (May 1, 2022)

Vet Confessions: I Lied When a Pet Died
					


Along with my passionate belief in the “good” of veterinary medicine, I’ve shared with you in this column my faith in God, and many colleagues responded with their own testimonies. Now it’s time for a confession. While many times in the past I’ve asked God for forgiveness for my sins and have...





					www.veterinarypracticenews.com
				




...I know there were almost certainly dozens of pets in my earliest years of practice that might have been cured or successfully treated if I had done one or more of the following:

*Rounds. *What if I had a pet where I wasn’t sure of the diagnosis or that the treatment plan wasn’t working and the pet was failing and I didn’t ask a colleague for a second opinion?
*Referrals. *We were hesitant to refer patients to other veterinary hospitals or to the veterinary school because we wanted to keep the patient and profits in-house.
This is not just a mea culpa later in life. I learned a valuable lesson, and after that incident there have been plenty of times I screwed up, but told the truth (missed something on the radiographs, misinterpreted the lab work, misdiagnosed, chose the wrong medication to start out with, tried to spay a tom cat).

I can almost split my career into thirds. The first third was about me, my skills and my business. The middle third started my focus on “we,” as in our skills, our commitment and our passion for helping the pet be optimally healthy. It included robust second teamwork on cases, routine referrals and a commitment to always be honest about mistakes.

The last third, and going forward, is about looking after both the pet and the pet owner's physical and emotional well-being...


----------



## Daniel (May 14, 2022)

The VCA (corporate) clinic I went to did not work out either.  They put me through hell this week because my regular vet was on vacation. The substitute vet said "maybe your dog doesn't have cancer after all."   What a nightmare that was, including another vet who said "sugar feeds cancer."   I became so angry, that they are happy not to have me back. So now I am looking to the big city for vets, though I won't be seeing any anytime soon.

A couple of the countless negative reviews about VCA that caught my eye:



> *No one ever takes responsibility or apologizes-they just get defensive.* I have spent over $8000 at THIS office!!! Had to go to the emergency 2 times to get them diagnosed because they didn't do it.





> My parents are both retired and live on a limited income... They were heartbroken back in December when they had to put their dog down. *The vet charged $200 extra to change the bandage on their dog's leg without their consent.* Of course when it comes to the health of your pet money should be no object but when youre retired and living on social security it can make the ordeal even more traumatic and devastating.



Even other vets who are bloggers agree that many/most vets are just phoning it in.   But the bloggers are overly sympathetic for their fellow veterinarians, saying the problem is largely "compassion fatigue."   But unlike many Americans, many vets can afford therapy, vacations, housekeeping, or other privileges of upper-middle class society.

I think the bigger issue is both consumers and vetrinarians "going with the flow" in an industry with more demand than supply, oversight, or research.  As it should be, human doctors are held to a much higher standard, but vets are rarely held responsible at all -- even in small claims courts.

Vets can always specialize or find other ways to practice if they need more money or less stress.  They don't have to worry about the economy hurting their business or that their profession will die out.  If they are tired of dealing with human owners, they can work in agriculture or other areas of the industry like nutrition or ultrasound imaging.


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## Daniel (May 14, 2022)

Veterinarians are money grubbing pigs that Suck! – readthisshit.com
					






					readthisshit.com
				




*Student loans?*
Cry me a river already. We all have student loan debt and make 1/4 of what you [vets] make before your bonuses. It’s not our job to pay off your student loan debt through price gouging.

Cost of the Practice?
Again it’s not my responsibly pay off your million dollar MRI machine by paying for expensive unnecessary procedures. If you couldn’t afford one, it would have been a better idea to work with the other local vets in the area to purchase one together; splitting the cost and in turn lower the cost of the practice. Most Vet visits don’t require an expensive MRI and there’s no need for every vet in a four block radius to have one. Have one for the area and use it as a out patience procedure.

Vet do Care?
Yeah they care, about money, not the animals. Evidence is in the following:

-*The Vet board lobbied against non-profit vets*, attempting to prohibit them from treating pets at a discount rates, stating it “threaten the business.” Thankfully this measure failed and was seen for the heartless and greedy measure that it was.

-The Vet Board lobby against allowing pet medicine to be sold online without a prescription. This restriction is so over reaching that at least in Ohio,* I can’t even purchase Revolution online without a Rx from a Vet. Revolution!! This is nothing more than a monthly flea medication*. I can walk into ANY Vet office right now and purchase this without them so much as asking me if I have cat, but it will be *3 times as expensive.*

– The Vet board lobby against (successfully I believe) requiring vets to provide prescriptions to customers, although most will if ask for fear of backlash. Although you will have to INSIST on it as they will not offer and will try to sell you the medicine right then and they at 3 to 4 times the costs because that is their bread and butter.

If Vets really cared about animals, the board would not have taken these actions and many like it to suppress affordable access to pet care...The only Vets not offended by thy post, are likely decent people who work for non-profit Vet offices. Do yourself a favor and find yourself your local non profit Vet.


----------



## Daniel (May 15, 2022)

So far, the best value I have found for the future is a university-based animal clinic.  They only want $90 to see a specialist in internal medicine compared to the going rate of $200.   If you ever need an ultrasound, they charge half of what most places charge now.

In stark contrast, one specialty clinic in Phoenix would not disclose non-exam fees over the phone, even for basic bloodwork.    But you have to pay the $205 exam fee in advance.   Unbelievable.   As one person said, dealing with some vets can feel like dealing with drug dealers.


----------



## Daniel (May 15, 2022)

Is cancer increasing in cats and dogs?
					


I often see claims in the media—from veterinarians as well as lay people—that canine and feline cancer rates are rising, and we are experiencing an “epidemic.” Usually, this is a prelude to further claims about the causes of this so-called epidemic. Finally, a solution is typically offered...





					www.veterinarypracticenews.com
				




"Today, according to PhDs, the dog has the highest rate of cancer of any mammal on the planet."


----------



## Daniel (May 19, 2022)

CHICAGO OUTRAGE:  Switch from real strawberries to corn syrup, or get shut down
					


[I’m on twitter @DCBarefootRun.  If you like this post, please consider subscribing to our blog on the right-hand side of the page. Thanks!] Sorry this is a long one.  It’s just a news story …





					theprimalchallenge.wordpress.com
				




Occupational licensing as a means of protecting favored insiders isn’t limited to small food producers and vendors.   Such laws are everywhere in America today.  I wrote about this a couple years back for the Foundation for Economic Education in a piece called The Right to Earn a Living Under Attack...

Mercedes Clemens was threatened with thousands of dollars in fines and criminal prosecution unless she stopped . . . massaging horses.   The vet cartel was pissed that she was cutting into what they figured was a potentially lucrative market, so they decided to hamstring her with legislation instead of competing fairly.


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2022)

This is awesome.  I bought my first bag today:



			https://www.iams.com/checkupchallenge
		





"Offer valid while supplies last. Must be 18 or older & a U.S. resident. Limit one (1) dog and one (1) cat reward per household. Reward is refund of qualifying routine and/or preventative well-check veterinary visit costs (US $200 maximum)."

The cost of vaccines may also be included, but I am not sure.

*In Canada, the offer starts May 31:*





						Checkup Challenge | IAMS™ | IAMS™
					







					www.iams.ca


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2022)

Arizona animal shelters derail effort to regulate veterinarians
					


Three of Arizona's biggest animal-welfare agencies opposed efforts to regulate veterinarians in shelters.




					www.azcentral.com


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2022)

From an article David posted:






						British government cracks down on alternative pet remedies
					


British government cracks down on alternative pet remedies by David Ramey, Science-Based Medicine January 27, 2011   One cannot play charades forever.   European veterinary groups have long been more skeptical about 'alternative' veterinary practices than their American counterparts. For...




					forum.psychlinks.ca
				




Now one might legitimately ask, “Why don’t the US veterinary authorities and organizations take some action such as this?” Well, in my opinion, veterinary authorities are more interested in getting animals to be treated by veterinarians than they are in the particular remedies that are being used. So far, in the US, it’s been *a triumph of economics over science*. How long that stance holds up, particularly in light of the legitimate strides at curbing non-scientific practices in other countries, remains to be seen.


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2022)

If Your Veterinarian Offers Acupuncture, Find a Different Vet
					


You know what happens to dogs in China, right? No, not that. I mean acupuncture. Eastern-influenced veterinarians claim that Chinese acupuncturists...





					slate.com
				




Cherry-picking studies to support traditional Chinese medicine is a tradition in itself. The majority of reviews published on the topic in China contain schoolchild errors. Even systematic reviews, the gold standard of unbiased study aggregation, are flawed. The authors rarely explain their criteria for choosing which studies to include, they may omit conflict-of-interest statements, and they combine the results of many studies without accounting for differences in demographics and methodology. Americans who favor “alternative” medicine seem to think they are rejecting the narrow-minded bias of the Western medical establishment, but they’re just adopting someone else’s narrow-minded bias.

Who cares if someone wants to stick needles in their German shepherd? Fair question.

“Animal acupuncture perpetuates a fraud,” says Ramey. “It also dumbs down the practice of veterinary medicine and allows people to promote their nonsense at the expense of others.”

*Acupuncture gives people the false impression that they’re helping their pets, which causes them to forego proven treatments.* McKenzie once saw a Rottweiler that had been undergoing non-Western treatment for bone cancer, which is an excruciatingly painful disease. When he recommended medication to control the animal’s pain, the owner’s reaction surprised him.

“She first gave me a puzzled look and eventually became offended,” McKenzie says. “*She was completely convinced that acupuncture was controlling the dog’s pain. But the animal wouldn’t put any weight on his leg, and when I touched it, he screamed.* Acupuncture makes us think we’re helping animals, when in fact we are not.”

There is a debate to be had about the ethics of placebo treatments in human medicine, especially when it comes to pain. *If a treatment makes you feel better, in some cases that’s just as good as actual improvement. Animals, however, don’t experience the placebo effect. *They don’t know why we’re sticking them with needles or stuffing ground-up herbs down their throats. Those things only make _you_ feel better. That’s not why you go to the vet.


----------



## Daniel (May 21, 2022)

Why is veterinary care so expensive?
					


U.S. pet owners spend billions of dollars each year keeping their animals healthy. Here's why that amount has been steadily rising.





					www.marketplace.org
				




About 2% to 3% of pet-owning households in the U.S. have pet insurance, versus 25% in Europe, according to Neill.

Neill said that insurance may have failed to gain traction in the U.S. because the products here  weren’t particularly good when they first launched.

 72% of people in the U.S. said they feel like they can’t afford veterinary care at least some of the time.


----------



## Daniel (May 21, 2022)

Blood Pressure Tests for Dogs: Worth It? - Whole Dog Journal
					


A health exam for adults includes a blood-pressure reading. So why not for our dogs? Here's what to know about blood pressure tests for dogs.





					www.whole-dog-journal.com
				




“In my senior pets, if money was an issue, I would choose physical exam first, then blood work, then urinalysis for my general health screening,” Dr. Fatcheric says. “If kidney, heart, thyroid, or adrenal disease was detected, I would strongly recommend blood-pressure monitoring. However, the earliest indicator of kidney disease is actually protein in the urine (microalbuminuria).”


----------



## Daniel (May 22, 2022)

On the very positive side, the way tech is going, people won't need to go to the vet for bloodwork.   You could do a basic bloodwork with a couple drops with a home analyzer.


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## Daniel (May 22, 2022)

"This is only made 1000x worse by all the veterinarians that were never trained in proper communication. It's been a fairly recent development in the field for vet students to be taught proper client communication; many of the vets that have been in the field for decades still utilize paternalistic approaches that infantilize the client and keep them in the dark."


----------



## Daniel (May 26, 2022)

In the US, university-based treatment centers and other resources for free/subsidized cancer care:









						Financial Help for Veterinary Treatments | Petco Love
					


Need help covering the costs of veterinary treatments? Browse our list of organizations that might be able to help with some of the costs of your pet's care.





					petcolove.org


----------



## Daniel (May 26, 2022)

More resources in the U.S:









						Find a Participating Veterinarian | VetBilling
					


VetBilling participating veterinarians are passionate about helping pet owners. Use our map to search for a participating veterinarian near you.





					vetbilling.com
				












						Helpful Resources for Pet Owners | VetBilling
					


In addition to providing more information about VetBilling for pet owners, you will find links to respected organizations that offer assistance.





					vetbilling.com


----------



## Daniel (May 27, 2022)

The Best Veterinary Telemedicine Services for Your Pet
					


Your best friend can receive timely medical help without ever leaving home, and this guide to our favorite televets can help.





					www.wired.com


----------



## Daniel (Jun 4, 2022)

Daniel said:


> Blood Pressure Tests for Dogs: Worth It? - Whole Dog Journal
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Even pets with large, metastatic tumors can have normal bloodwork, which is why abdominal x-rays -- which are usually cheaper than comprehensive bloodwork -- may be more helpful for some senior pets, at least if they have already had bloodwork done not too long ago.    This was the case in an elderly cat I had, who had normal bloodwork despite having undiagnosed lung cancer.  This was also the case in my current dog with kidney cancer.

After spending thousands of dollars on bloodwork over the years, the only helpful abnormal results I have had in pet bloodwork showed hyperthyroidism and kidney disease in an old, symptomatic cat.    So I am personally biased to worry more about bloodwork in old cats than old dogs.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 6, 2022)

Of course, some pet conditions require frequent bloodwork, such as a CBC and chemistry panel during cancer treatment (such as chemotherapy or Palladia).

Affordable home-based testing for pet bloodwork in the US (similar to convenient, cash-based human health services where someone goes to your home to take your blood sample):









						Affordable Pet Labs
					


Welcome to Affordable Pet Labs. Vet-Grade Lab Work, Without the Visit. We provide easy and affordable lab work for pets in the comfort of your home. Visit for more!





					affordablepetlabs.com


----------



## Daniel (Jun 7, 2022)

Daniel said:


> This is awesome.  I bought my first bag today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I already got the refund check today for my 9-month-old kitten's wellness visit.  Iams/Mars paid the full amount of the invoice ($189 USD), including feline leukemia testing and initial vaccine, a nail trim, and even the gabapentin medication (for situational anxiety like vet visits):


In Canada, the maximum refund is $150 CAD for one dog OR cat (maximum $150 CAD per household).   In the US, the offer is more generous and allows one dog AND one cat (maximum $400 USD per household).  At least in the US, you can buy the bags of pet food before or after the wellness visit, and you only submit receipts, not UPC codes.

I think one reason this offer is so generous is because the parent company of Iams, Mars, owns a lot of vet practices in the US and Canada.   Also, pet owners tend to stick to the same food brands.


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Jun 8, 2022)

I'm not a dog person but most of my family is obsessed with dogs. I posted this on Facebook to let them know about it.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 11, 2022)

Most people I know are not motivated by any deal, unless it's a deal at the marijuana dispensary   On the opposite spectrum are people who go online to deal-listing sites like Slickdeals (the Canadian equivalent of RedFlagDeals) every day, which I used to do years ago.

I have noticed the same thing at the drive thru.  Very few people use the app for mobile ordering, even though it is almost always cheaper that way at BK, Taco Bell, McDonalds, etc.


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Jun 11, 2022)

That's interesting. I didn't realize using the app gave you some lower prices. Thanks!


----------



## Daniel (Jun 11, 2022)

Yeah, they all have both deals and rewards.  Taco Bell's rewards program is the most generous.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 22, 2022)

Important fine print for Pawp.com emergency insurance (only available in the US):

"The Emergency Fund only pays for the initial emergency care. All other follow up care is at the expense of the pet owner."

"Clients can not access any funds if the pet has been admitted prior to contacting one of our veterinary team for funds."

"You have up to a maximum of 8 hours to take your pet to an emergency clinic or any vet clinic of your choice after being referred by our veterinary professionals. If you exceed the 8 hour period to use your emergency funds, the funds will not be released for your pet's care."

"The emergency fund will not cover additional costs associated with euthanasia, such as cremation or memorabilia."

"We do not cover emergencies associated with breeding or pregnancy issues."

"In order to gain access to your emergency fund, we require completed profiles for all of your pets with their name, age, weight, breed, and a clear photo. If this information is missing, you will not have access to your emergency fund."


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2022)

Woman Forced to Surrender Puppy After Being Unable to Pay $10K Vet Bill
					


"My kids cry and ask about him every day," Rachel Mullen from Maine, told a local news outlet while speaking about her puppy.





					www.newsweek.com
				




from one of the comments:

"We went to that same veterinary emergency clinic in Maine last July, 2021 with our beautiful 10 year old White German Shepherd suffering from bloat. Told that the surgery would be at least $8,000 and were given literally minutes to decide what to do. Who can come up with $8,000 in a few minutes?"


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2022)

Bloat (or GDV) in Dogs: What Is it and How Is it Treated? – American Kennel Club
					


If you believe your dog is suffering from symptoms of bloat, call your vet or emergency vet immediately. I hate this disease. When I first started as a vet





					www.akc.org
				




Dogs fed one meal a day are twice as likely to bloat as those fed two meals a day. Rate of eating is also a contributor. Fast eaters have five times the risk than dogs that are slow eaters. Using slow feeder bowls with fingers (or center posts) or putting large rocks in the bowl slows dogs down physically, but it’s also important to address the anxiety that comes with feeding around other dogs, because that can be a risk factor. 

Stressed dogs and those that are hyperactive are more likely to bloat. Separating dogs at feeding times may help reduce anxiety and stress surrounding food. Unhappy or fearful dogs are twice as likely to bloat as those that are happy.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2022)

Only $15 a month for unlimited telehealth for pets -- up to 5 pets per subscription.   









						Online Veterinarians: Appointments & Prescriptions from Vets | Dutch
					


Dutch makes high-quality veterinary care available 24 hours a day. Get pet treatments and prescriptions delivered to you.





					www.dutch.com


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2022)

At the checkout counter at the vet's office today, I handed my husband $170 in cash before the total was announced (for a routine wellness visit, including two vaccines and a nail trim).  He said "I'm sure it won't be this much."  Total was $164 

(The vaccine boosters are for three years.  But if a vet tech makes $20 an hour, they have to work all day for such quick, basic wellness services.)


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2022)

Regarding emergency funds, many Americans don't have enough for their own healthcare, like for high-cost deductibles:









						Sick and struggling to pay, 100 million people in the U.S. live with medical debt
					


The U.S. health system now produces debt on a mass scale, a new investigation shows. Patients face gut-wrenching sacrifices.





					www.npr.org
				




"America's debt crisis is driven by a simple reality: Half of U.S. adults don't have the cash to cover an unexpected $500 health care bill."


----------



## Daniel (Jun 30, 2022)

From 2007:






						Texas Entrepreneurs and Horse Owners File Lawsuit Challenging Elitist Veterinary Cartel - Institute for Justice
					


Arlington, Va.—Can an elitist cartel of veterinarians use government power to shut down the thriving businesses of Texas entrepreneurs? The Institute for Justice (IJ), a […]





					ij.org
				




“This blatantly anti-competitive regulation serves the sole purpose of maximizing the incomes of largely untrained, unqualified, ill-equipped veterinarians at the expense of horse owners and Texas entrepreneurs.”

Carl Mitz is a third-generation horseman with customers in 30 states. He has treated the teeth of more than 100,000 horses and is recognized as the nation’s premier equine dental practitioner for miniature horses. Dena Corbin is president of North Texas Equine Dentistry and has provided dental services to approximately 15,000 horses. Randy Riedinger has floated the teeth of more than 40,000 horses; his long-time customers include celebrities such as 11-time World Champion Barrel Racer Charmayne James, Phil Rapp, Bob Avila and several top teams in the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association. Brady George has spent decades raising horses and has treated more than 2,500.

"I’ve been a horseman as long as I’ve been a man, and I’ve never met a veterinarian adequate in equine dentistry,” said Gary Barnes, who hires Carl Mitz to treat the horses on his 60-acre ranch in Tolar, Texas, and whose father and grandfather were veterinarians. Carl’s services are an integral part of Gary’s business because his horses perform and must have healthy and well-maintained teeth to accept the bit and receive instructions in driving competitions.

Independent and self-reliant Texans have been taking care of their horses for a long time without unnecessary government meddling. Yet Texas, along with a handful of other states, recently outlawed the occupation of equine dental practitioner. The Texas State Board of Veterinary Medical Examiners is demanding that Texas equine dental practitioners spend more than $100,000 and four years at veterinary school, where they would learn next to nothing about caring for horses’ teeth, or else abandon their profession.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 1, 2022)

https://www.inlander.com/spokane/two-vets-allege-spokanes-only-24-hour-er-for-pets-is-creating-a-monopoly/Content?oid=21568627
		


...Her stay racked up some serious costs: more than $3,100 at the Pet Emergency Clinic and another $1,000 for an outside ultrasound she had been referred for, Rall says. 

The final diagnosis? Maya likely ate too much food, had acid reflux and needed time to digest. 

By the time Rall got her back, the arthritic dog could barely move, had chewed a patch of fur off near her tail, and had ripped out one of her claws trying to get out of her kennel...

"The prices go up, quality goes down, and you're stuck with it. Those are the dangers of monopolies."


----------



## Daniel (Jul 1, 2022)

Call for reform in 1975* (47 years ago)*:



			https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1094&context=hlr


----------



## Daniel (Jul 1, 2022)

Is veterinary medicine ready for a midlevel practitioner?
					


New master's degree for veterinary technicians adds fuel to workforce debate





					news.vin.com
				




"We have priced ourselves out of access for many pet owners," he said. "Aren't we obligated to find a way to serve those animals?" 

In his eyes, the midlevel professional could also help whittle away at another challenge for the profession: lack of diversity. He said individuals from underrepresented groups often look at the debt-to-income ratio in veterinary medicine and decide to forgo the profession despite their interest in the field. A master's degree leading into an extender position could provide a more appealing entry point.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 1, 2022)

Also on the positive side, public awareness can only increase about ways of preventing emergency conditions in dogs such as bloat, dog being injured by one's own car in the driveway, urinary blockages in male cats, etc.

Regardless of being positive or negative, Google reviews for vet offices and vet ERs can partly accomplish this -- as do TV vet shows, pet parent blogs, etc.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 8, 2022)

How to Avoid a “Bad Veterinarian”:  Listen to your Inner Voice – PoC
					







					pictures-of-cats.org
				




"While some folks may think that arrogance may portend expertise, as far as I am concerned it is quite the opposite. To me, arrogance probably is due to the practitioner compensating for their conscious or unconscious insecurity."


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## Daniel (Jul 8, 2022)

In Veterinary Medicine, the Standard of Care is rarely standard | Priority Pet Hospital
					


Medical professionals often talk about the “Standard of Care,” a set of guidelines that define the appropriate treatment for a particular health problem. The standard of care is what helps ensure that patients receive a similar basic level of care no matter where they’re treated. Standards of...




					prioritypethospital.com
				




It’s often said that _“the standard of care is a moving target,”_ and nowhere is that more true than in veterinary medicine. Over the last ten years, the level of care available to pets has skyrocketed. We’ve become more accepting of the need for pain management in pets, realized that we were probably vaccinating more than we need to, and recognized that good oral health is critical for good health in general...

Because while the health insurance industry and legal system have a strong hand in determining the standard of care for your two-legged family members, it’s still really up to each veterinarian to determine what theirs will be for the four-legged ones...

It’s not unusual to find vets who have exceptionally high standards in one area of practice and at the same time seem to have standards left over from the 1970’s in others.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 8, 2022)

Saddle Thrombus: Every Cat Owner's Worst Nightmare | PetMD
					


You wake up groggily one Saturday morning — admittedly a bit on the late side — and you suddenly realize how it is you managed to sleep in. Your ten year-old kitty companion is nowhere to be seen. She’s typically right there, meowling and staring at you plaintively so you’ll get up and fill her...




					www.petmd.com
				




90% of saddle thrombus cases have underlying heart disease...

Some heart conditions do not make themselves known through physical examination and laboratory testing.

“Performing a cardiac ultrasound is sometimes the only way we can determine this. EKGs are often inconclusive in these cases, though that may have helped,” she conceded. “It’s just not yet part of our standard screening for cats. Not when everything else checks out fine.

Our job now is to decide how we treat this. Why don’t we focus on that for the moment?” she urges.

That’s when she gives you a couple of choices:

1)    Immediate intensive care at the specialty hospital where they’ll place her in an oxygen cage and supply drugs to support the heart, treat the congestive failure and blood thinners to help dissolve the clot.

Here she’ll receive more imaging (a cardiac ultrasound and perhaps a CT scan) and more labwork. In 35-40% of treated cases (typically if they're treated early on), cats will recover well enough from the damage done to their nerves (a result of the poor blood supply) to use their hind legs again. Because of her congestive heart failure, however, her chances are slimmer than that. She may well die during treatment.

Surgery can sometimes be effective when 1) we catch these cases very early on (within hours), 2) when there's not another clot within the patient's heart potentially waiting to imminently dislodge itself, and 3) when the cat isn't in congestive heart failure. In this case surgery’s not likely an option due to her congestive heart failure and the fact that this happened sometime overnight. But it may still be worth a shot. It all depends on the facility's capabilities and your surgeon's aggressive tendencies.

And…

2)    Euthanasia.

“That’s it? I have no other choices? Can’t I give her medications and treat her at home?” At least she can die in peace in familiar surroundings, you reason. “Or perhaps you could treat her here?”

But your vet is firm on this. “There’s no way to responsibly manage her severe pain without electing for definitive treatment,” she offers. “You have to be willing to choose one path or the other. There’s no middle ground here. It’s Saturday," she goes on to explain. "We have no 24-hour care. This is a serious condition I could treat with halfway measures to some effect but I’d be doing Kitty a huge disservice. Even if I could get her well again the pain relief she requires means continuous monitoring. I know you don’t want her to suffer so I’m giving it to you straight. You have no other choices.”

In the end you drive her to the specialty hospital where she dies overnight in spite of the internal medicine specialist’s best efforts. A complication of her kidneys and her heart failure, you’re told, since lab tests revealed her kidneys also received a clot.


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## Daniel (Jul 8, 2022)

What To Do When You Believe a Vet Has Harmed or Killed Your Companion Animal
					


You trust your veterinarian to diagnose, treat, and care for your animal family members. But what if you suspect that your veterinarian made a mistake — and that the mistake has hurt your animal?





					aldf.org
				




*What can you do if you suspects your veterinarian has committed malpractice?*

You have several different courses of action available to you if you suspect your companion animal was injured or killed due to veterinary malpractice.

You can send a complaint to your state veterinary licensing board. State licensing boards have the power to suspend or revoke a veterinarian’s license, although* this rarely happens.*
You may also want to sue the veterinarian in a court of law.
A lawyer can negotiate a settlement or bring a lawsuit. Please see our page on the Stages of a Civil Trial for more.
Another option is pursuing your case in small claims court.
The advantages of small claims court is that you do not need a lawyer — in some states you are in fact prohibited from bringing a lawyer to small claims court — and the cases move much more quickly than in other courts.
However, the amount of money you can receive in small claims court will be smaller than in other courts.

------------

Case in point:



			https://usa-med.worldorgs.com/catalog/englewood/dog-day-care-center/cherrelyn-animal-hospital
		


I had to sue Dr Koster for malpractice and I won. I then reported the case to the Colorado State Veterinary Medical Board and they revoked his license for 6 months because of what he did. What did he do? He said he did orthopedic surgery on my dog and actually didn't.  Look him up though the Department of Regulatory Agencies before trusting your pet to his care.


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## Daniel (Jul 8, 2022)

More reasons to not trust vets or to at least read reviews...

From some negative reviews for a single animal clinic in Hamilton, Ontario (rated 3.6/5 on Google Reviews):









						Reviews Mohawk Animal Clinic (Veterinarian) in Hamilton | CanadaReviewers.com
					


Here we offer you the reviews of real people like you who use the products and services of Mohawk Animal Clinic (Veterinarian) in the territory of Hamilton (Canada). As of day the business receives a score of 3.6 out of 5 and this score has been based on 127 reviews. Purchase when you know what...





					canadareviewers.com
				




Took my teacup chihuahua puppy there when he was lethargic, *the vet tried telling us the puppy had internal bleeding with zero evidence*, he told us our puppy would most likely not make it and I would have to hospitalize him with a bill close to $2,000.... *Turns out he was just low on blood sugar *and needed some corn syrup in his mouth and to just continuously do it.

-----

When my partner and i pulled into the parking lot our dog was running away from the vet techs. We managed to get him back and relax him as he was shaking in fear. I had asked what happened and the vet tech told me that she had LOST HOLD OF HIS LEASH AND HE STARTED TO RUN. If we had not pulled into the parking lot when we did our dog would've been missing or would've been hit by a car. After everything was completed and we got the dog back in the car, they still had the AUDACITY TO CHARGE ME $400 FOR A BLOOD WORK TEST. *The situation was handled horribly* and the staff seemed to have little to no care in the world that they had almost lost my dog.

*------*

 Vet barely looked at him and sent us on our way with an *infected incision*. Then refused to touch him because he was barking. He was in pain and It is your job to care for sick animals...

I am not confident in her ability as a vet. I would not recommend this clinic to anyone I know. I have also met a ton of people who have had similar issues here. I understand human error, don’t get me wrong. But this is 3 different animals on quite a few different occasions.

------
LEASE READ THE BAD REVIEWS BEFORE BRINGING YOUR ANIMALS HERE!!!! MY CAT DIED AFTER THEIR VISIT HERE!!! I don’t know where to start.. I brought both my cat and dog in yesterday night for flea treatment. They applied treatment to both my pets and I bought an extra month supply for both of them. I mentioned to the vet or assistant that my cat is 16 years old and If it is safe for her.. she assured me it would be. This morning I woke up to my cat dead. I called and they said it is impossible for the medication to cause death and that it is probably because she is 16. My cat was very healthy and never had any health concerns. It could have been a human error such as the assistant applying the dog medication on my cat by mistake or her not being weighed properly.. either way, her death was sudden. They also did not do blood work to make sure her organs were working properly, or even examine her for fleas. I asked if I could return the Unused tubes since I obviously won’t be using them anymore and they said no. Telling everyone about my experience here. *I wish i read all these bad reviews before bringing my cat here.*

-----

My friends cat went to this hospital cause the cat broken his leg, he broke his leg in shock, the doctor said the diagnosis shows that there was no big problem, so they give him a special bandage and let the owner bring the cat home. However, after a week, she noticed that the bandage was bleeding and went to another vet, she sent the X-ray to a Mississauga vet as a specialist. Specialist said it was too serious and missed the best treatment period. The cat returned to vet and into an operation, and amputating the leg. *HE LOST HIS LEG BECAUSE OF THIS VET!

-----*

I brought him to a professional place to have his nails trimmed so I wouldn’t accidentally hurt him at home... however, I got my dog back* gushing blood and in pain.

-----*

A couple days later when we called to get the meds we were told no because a* blood test for her levels WAS NOT DONE. My question is what was the blood that was taken for??!?* And why did we have a bill for $280 and no meds for our 16 year old dog that the VET could not be bothered to meet or be there for the appointment. We will NEVER bring our dog back here ... EVER!

-----

We dealt with Dr. Mogavero. One of the most unprofessional veterinarians. He assessed our cat for maybe 20 seconds. Then he *did not properly complete the stitches in a very simple operation,* so we had to go back in and have him re-do it. When we went back to fix the stitches he did not tell us anything that was going on. He just sent his assistant to take our cat and he began re-stitching her without any freezing or something for pain. Our cat was very loudly in pain and we did not know anything that was going on. Then after he acted as if it was our fault like we were a nuisance to him taking up his time, when he clearly botched the first operation. I cannot speak about other veterinarians there, but if you go to this clinic and he is the vet, I would strongly suggest leaving. His manners and work were extremely unprofessional.

-----

*Refusing to give me my dog. I called 911*...Two police responded because your staff was screaming at me. I couldn't even hear the dispatcher.


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## Daniel (Jul 10, 2022)

My latest rants after dealing with another vet today (though my expectations are so low now, that I am just glad when it's over):

Too many pets still die due to a lack of pet parent education.    While it's important to educate clients about flea and tick prevention, millions of dogs are run over each year.   Yet not one vet has ever asked if I have a fence or keep track of my dogs.

As a group, vets seem very insular.  Vets have little interest in helping vet techs advancing professionally or educating clients about preventing deadly problems like bloat or hit-by-car.    "They are also significantly less likely to be...agreeable than the general population."

Vets often seem unsupportive to their own employees:



> Letters: Readers call article disrespectful, imbalanced
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At the animal hospital I go to, I was shocked to read the job description at Indeed for ancillary staff, which included being able to work with "disgruntled" coworkers.

Though they complain of cyberbullying (what most people would call negative reviews), they have lobbyists to protect the worst among them:


> Bills were not read.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Daniel (Jul 10, 2022)

A representative review for a less-than-stellar (super greedy) vet oncologist in Los Angeles:



> Dr. Lyons acts real "neutral" to pet parents during the initial consult -- emphasizing that while he cannot "guarantee results" he feels all tumors are worth paying $15K to try "zapping." He will also be sugary sweet at first going into the procedure. Once the pet parent learns that the SRS [radiation] was a massive failure, Dr. Lyons is no longer accessible anymore. He claims he doesn't have the answers to your questions. He gets real lazy with his advice -- he kept telling me to double, triple, and quadruple the doses of Prednisolone over the phone!
> 
> Having consulted with two world-renowned brain specialists for humans afterwards, I learned that Dr. Lyons should NEVER have performed SRS on my dog's trigeminal nerve tumor, and he should have been more realistic with me. I will never, ever forget this experience and hope no one else will go through this with their furry children.


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## Daniel (Jul 12, 2022)

Should you trust your veterinarian?
					


Veterinarians may outrank doctors, lawyers and journalists as one of America's most...





					www.sfgate.com
				




The trustworthy veterinarian knows he doesn't know everything. No one is omniscient. I have no problem with that. While I would assume any veterinarian knows a great deal more than I do about general medical issues relating to pets, I don't expect him to be an expert on every single medication, condition or obscure article in a medical journal.

But when I ask him a question he can't answer I do expect him to respond by saying, "I don't know, let me check on that." Veterinarians who try to bluff to preserve their authority, or worse, imply you're being fussy, bothersome or over-protective for asking in the first place, don't deserve your trust.


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## Daniel (Jul 15, 2022)

Why Don’t Clients Like Us? - The Vetitude
					


Can it really be such a surprise that clients come to us prepared for battle when we tell them over and over again in public-facing posts...





					thevetitude.com
				




I think most of us will agree that the relationship between veterinary professionals and the public is broken. But like any relationship, it’s two-sided. And we need to work on our side if we’re going to save it

*If we want clients to bring their pets to us, we need to be welcoming.

If we want clients to respect us, we need to respect them.

If we want clients to trust us, we need to earn their trust.*

Continuing to blame clients for our unhappiness only further breaks down their trust in us and exacerbates the problem.


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## Daniel (Jul 15, 2022)

It's Not All About The Animals: Veterinarians' Perspectives On Their Work
					


This study examines lived experiences of veterinarians. A common feature of being a veterinarian is curing and caring for nonhuman animals. It is the love and connection most veterinarians share for animals that ignite their journey to become an animal doctor. Data collected during...





					stars.library.ucf.edu
				




"Listening is the most prominent strategy used to gain trust with people in which the veterinarian does not have an established relationship."


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## Daniel (Jul 16, 2022)

From a book by an internal medicine vet, who thinks people generally need higher -- not lower -- expectations of vets.  A recurring theme in the book:

"What is more important, your dog's health or your veterinarian's feelings?"

Her other book, also published in 2011:

Amazon product

A review of _Speaking for Spot_:

"Could save you thousands of dollars and give you the tools to prevent the heartache that comes with making uninformed or rushed decisions about your dog's health care."   —Linda Tellington-Jones


About the author:

"Dr. Kay was selected as the 2011 Leo K. Bustad Companion Animal Veterinarian of the Year, an award presented every year by the American Veterinary Medical Association to a veterinarian whose work exemplifies and promotes the human animal bond."


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## Daniel (Jul 16, 2022)

https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2021-12/study--most-dogs-are-highly-inbred-which-can-mean-higher-care-costs/
		


"The majority of dog breeds are highly inbred, contributing to a lifelong increase in disease and health care costs."


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## Daniel (Jul 16, 2022)

The ethics of referral
					







					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




"Sometimes primary concern for the animal, therefore, dictates discouraging referral to a specialist!"


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## Daniel (Jul 20, 2022)

Why my local animal hospital now accepts Trupanion insurance for direct payments:



> Trupanion Continues to Pay Veterinarians Directly at Checkout: Thousands of additional Veterinary Hospitals Now Have Access with ezyVet Integration
> 
> 
> 
> ...



An accident insurance plan with Trupanion is less than $14/month for a dog.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 21, 2022)

What is included/excluded in an "accident insurance plan"?


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## Daniel (Jul 22, 2022)

Accidental poisoning (like rat poison--which I never use), dog bites, snake bites, hit-by-car, eye injury, foreign body ingestion, etc:



> Accident Only Coverage | AKC Pet Insurance
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luckily, I have never had a dog or cat have an expensive emergency (yet).  But I have had a number of close calls over the years with dogs, so I try to avoid most of these potential problems by not letting the dogs outside unattended.   

And I keep the shed doors always closed since I have seen snakes in there.  When walking dogs or taking them to the vet, I preferably use a harness or other means since a regular collar can slip off.

And since I have eight dogs, I take attendance like a kindergarten teacher after each outing to the backyard


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## Daniel (Jul 22, 2022)

Truly Listening
					


Are you listening to your clients? I am proud of my listening skills with clients.  I feel that I ask open ended questions, listen to client’s stories, and





					vetidealist.com
				




"I now start from the idea that all owners know their pets better than I do.  Even when they can’t put a name to it, they can have a “spidey-sense” about what is going on. Thus, we should be extra cautious when we think an owner is wrong."









						Lessons Veterinarians should learn from Boeing
					


The story of the last two decades at Boeing has important warnings for the veterinary industry.





					vetidealist.com
				




"Catastrophes are more likely to be prevented when small problems and near misses are taken seriously."










						Creating Joy in Work – The Approach
					


"It has long seemed a paradox to me that such depletion of joy in work can pervade as noble and meaningful an enterprise as health care.  What we in the healin





					vetidealist.com
				




"Many things that frustrate your staff probably also frustrate your clients."

"Creating joy is about listening to your staff, hearing their concerns, and then working TOGETHER to fix problems.  One way to show someone they are valued is to implement one of their suggestions and then to celebrate improvement it brings."


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## Daniel (Jul 22, 2022)

‘Welcome to Hell’
					


Mars, Inc., is best known for making chocolate bars. But it also owns the most pet hospitals in the U.S., and workers say the conditions are toxic.





					prospect.org
				




While still working at VCA, Gutierrez went missing from her family for days and was eventually hospitalized for suicidal ideation. When she returned to her job, she found a disciplinary “No call/No show” write-up from her manager, for missing work.

Despite Gutierrez insisting she gave her manager a doctor’s note and that she was listed on the FBI’s missing persons list, VCA still asked for more information about the absence. Gutierrez said that security camera footage would show her physically handing the note to the manager, but the manager claimed to have never received it...

Gutierrez’s bouts of anxiety and depression seemed to go beyond pandemic-induced stress. In June 2021, she walked away from VCA Specialists of Connecticut, describing the company as “the most toxic place I have ever worked & I feel so much better now that I’m out of there!”

Many of the workers who spoke to the Prospect characterized Vanessa Gutierrez’s suicide as an entirely avoidable tragedy that epitomized everything wrong with the current state of veterinary medicine.

One veterinary technician who requested anonymity said that half the deaths by suicide she knows of in her life were by other veterinary professionals. The technician said, mournfully, “It’s paralyzing hearing about the suicidal ideation among your co-workers.”

--------

Online petition: 









						Justice for Vanessa Gutierrez: Demand Compassion and Support from VCA for All Veterinary Staff
					


Working in veterinary medicine is an incredibly stressful and often thankless job. For credentialed Veterinary Technicians, Veterinary Assistants, Customer Service Representatives, and all veterinary support staff there are added issues of low wages and substandard benefits. When these stresses...





					sign.moveon.org


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## Daniel (Jul 29, 2022)

Health insurance for horses:









						Horse Insurance Plans  - Horse Medical & Health Insurance
					







					www.aspcapetinsurance.com
				




[It can cost $5,000 to $10,000 for surgery to treat horse colic.]


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Jul 30, 2022)

My days of riding horses are long gone, sadly.


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## Daniel (Jul 30, 2022)

They are my favorite part of the annual rodeo here.

But I have trust issues with horses.  As a teen, my family's horse once bolted while I was riding him. It was fun and horrifying at the same time


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 30, 2022)

I learned to ride (English style, not American) on an older mare who was hilarious. Whenever she had a rider, she would suddenly start wheezing and gasping for sympathy, especially if you tried to urge her into a trot or a gallop. She was hilarious.


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## Daniel (Jul 31, 2022)

Readers Recommend Benefits of Fostering Dogs  - Dear Abby
					


DEAR ABBY: Regarding "Nurturer in New York" (April 28), the disabled woman who wants a dog, please suggest she foster. I'm the founder of a shelter dog res...





					www.uexpress.com
				




Many readers responded to that letter by recommending *fostering*. One, from Washington state, mentioned "seniors for seniors" programs in which a senior pet is matched with an appropriate senior citizen, with ongoing assistance. While "permanent fosters" allow the animal to be placed with a person, the shelter retains "ownership" of the pet and is responsible for the vet bills. *This is a worthwhile program for someone who may have the time and love for an animal but not the resources, and it helps get older pets out of the shelters.*


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 31, 2022)

They have something similar in the local Humane Society.

Mo9st people adopting cats or dogs want kittens or puppies. They match seniors animals with seniors and cut the adoption fees in half (includes neutering and shots). That's how I got Mindy who was 5 at the time, now 10.


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## Daniel (Aug 1, 2022)

Daniel said:


> Saddle Thrombus: Every Cat Owner's Worst Nightmare | PetMD
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From a negative review where an ER vet missed an obvious diagnosis (at VCA Canada Ottawa Veterinary Hospital):



> My cat was taken in through the ER last night. *We thought he broke his back legs. *The vet took x-rays, and kept him 6 hours, only to let us know he had potentially torn ligaments in his front right paw. This didn't make sense because his back legs were dangling before he was brought to the vet. We took him home, and they still were. Today, we have been informed his is paralyzed and now the vet refuses to answer any questions before he is "busy". This is completely unacceptable and I wouldn't recommend this location to my worst enemy.
> 
> *The vet should have caught this when my cat was under his care for several hours yesterday. He didn't. I* will never bring an animal here again, and we will be going to the emergency vet on Alta Vista because they atleast know what they are doing.
> 
> Editing to add: after taking him to Alta Vista, they* discovered he had nothing wrong with any limbs and was throwing blood clots into his spine. If the vet would have caught this, he wouldn't have suffered for two additional days.*



Moral of the story:  Be an informed consumer, e.g. be knowledgeable about the prevention and signs of common cat emergencies and/or common dog emergencies (just as we are aware of strokes and heart attacks in humans).

In general, cats are masters at hiding symptoms of progressive disease, even more so than dogs.

For example:



> https://www.cathealth.com/cat-care/safety/1212-cat-emergencies
> Many times cats hide the signs of breathing problems by simply decreasing their activity. By the time an owner notices changes in the cat’s breathing, it may be very late in the progression of the cat’s lung disease. There are several causes of breathing changes but the most common are feline asthma, heart or lung disease.


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## David Baxter PhD (Aug 1, 2022)

The Alta Vista Animal Hospital was the location that rang up over $5000 to treat my son's dog when he had eaten half a frisbie - ultrasound, CT scans - in the end, after all that, exploratory surgery disclosed the frisbie. They should have been able to determine that from the ultrasound and CT scans if they knew what they were doing. As I probably said once before, they paid for all this fancy equipment and they wanted to use it.


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## Daniel (Aug 1, 2022)

Yes, I would be the first to throw any animal hospital under the bus.   I am glad that the Internet now provides almost instant second opinions, like with vets and vet specialists at JustAnswer, Vetster, etc.

My nephew recently lost a puppy, who was discharged from the animal hospital after staying overnight but died later at home anyway.

I could leave a one-star review for some of the experiences I have had at the animal hospital I still use now (not to mention they provide cat declawing).  But they did a great job today and in the past with urgent-care matters since they have more staff than anyone else in the county.


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## Daniel (Aug 1, 2022)

Daniel said:


> *Important fine print for Pawp.com emergency insurance (only available in the US):*
> 
> "The Emergency Fund only pays for the initial emergency care. All other follow up care is at the expense of the pet owner."
> 
> ...



An alternative without such restrictions is accident insurance with Trupanion, though that would not cover emergencies due to medical illness.


----------



## Daniel (Aug 16, 2022)




----------



## Daniel (Aug 28, 2022)

I went to a pet ER for the first time.    It was a great experience, especially since I was just there as a pet sitter and didn't have to pay    Cost-wise, I thought it was very reasonable and just a little more than the a regular vet.   Total cost was about $335.  $105 for the exam.  Less than $100 for two generic medications (prednisone and gabapentin).  And about $140 for a shot of methadone, an opioid pain killer.

The total wait was about two hours, but the dog was taken in immediately for assessment/triage and stayed in the back for observation.   Everyone waits in the waiting room the whole time except to talk to the vet.    They had free coffee, bottled water, and funny animals on TV.

Reason for visit was occasional but very loud yelping/whining and decrease in appetite.  (The dog is very old and weighs about 70 pounds.)  The diagnosis was neck pain from arthritis and/or low-grade disc disease.  The dog's pain seemed to go away completely by the next day.  They did not need to do x-rays, which would have cost at least $400 since they send their x-rays out for a radiologist interpretation.

For next time, I will have my minivan already ready to go with a pet bed, blankets, etc.   So getting all that ready took an extra ten minutes or so, not that it mattered since there were at least a few cases already waiting at the pet ER.    Near the end of my waiting time, I was the only one in the ER left until a dog came in with an eye problem.


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## Daniel (Sep 29, 2022)

The Irreverent Vet Speaks Out – What Veterinarians Don’t Want You to Know
					


The Irreverent Vet Speaks Out – What Veterinarians Don’t Want You to Know




					www.petplace.com
				




Some hospitals have 24-hour care but most do not. Every hospital has a slightly different situation. Some have staff that live above the clinic and do nighttime treatments and walks/monitoring. Others have no one but have an early shift that walks pets early. If your pet really needs 24-hour care – ask what they offer. Most areas have a local emergency clinic that does offer 24-hour care.


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## Daniel (Oct 8, 2022)

Pawp Review: Pet Insurance Alternative
					


Pawp is an alternative to traditional pet insurance that offers 24/7 virtual vet support and emergency protection plans of $3,000 per year.





					thecollegeinvestor.com
				




"If you try to reach to the CEO to make a complaint he will mark your message as spam! I mean how unprofessional is that? To run and hide from the problems as a CEO? I mean they all run and hide but the CEO, unbelievable."


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## Daniel (Oct 8, 2022)

5 Reasons Life Is Better For Cat People
					


Cats are where it's at.





					www.businessinsider.com
				




Cats are cheaper than dogs.​
According to the ASPCA, owning a cat instead of a dog could save you a minimum of $300 to $800 a year — probably more.

Dogs are bigger than cats, on average, and are likely to run up higher food bills as a result. They also tend to require more toys, supplies, and services than cats, including crates, leashes, collars, and training classes. Routine veterinary expenses tend to be higher for dogs than for cats.

And the ASPCA tally doesn't even factor in expenses such as boarding or dog-walking when the pet owners are away, expenses which are often bigger for dogs than for cats.


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## Daniel (Oct 9, 2022)

Daniel said:


> If I ever find an easy, affordable solution, I am going to share it all over the Internet and even pay for Google Ads to let every dog owner know who searches for dog + prednisone



At least in this case, the answer to dog hunger from steroids is, ironically, to lose weight if the dog is overweight.

Earlier this year, my elderly dog with chronic bronchitis was put on a diet, with apples and veggies as snacks. The weight loss helped with her chronic bronchitis and reduced her need for steroids.

She has now been off steroids completely for about two months.   She is on the NSAID Galliprant for her arthritis.   (Today, she had her annual lung x-rays, which showed only residual lung inflammation.   Her lungs have never looked better compared to the last couple years.  She also no longer has a heart murmur.)


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## Daniel (Oct 15, 2022)

Why your vet won’t help you, and what to do about it — I Will Help Your Cat
					







					www.iwillhelpyourcat.com
				




Here are some specific, word for word “can't refuse” scripts. You can use them when talking with your vet and their staff. Why am I calling it "can't refuse?" Because if they do refuse after saying these scripts, you know there are trust issues, burnout or ageism as described above. If they agree to help you after saying these phrases, then you will be building bridges to reduce defensiveness, increase willingness to learn new things and will remind them of their mandate for compassion and teamwork...

Try the following:

*Dr. ______, can you help me figure out where my cat’s kidneys are staged according to IRIS (have chart and pamphlet printed out - see this website: ). I am interested in staging his kidneys, so together we can make a plan. Can I book a recheck appointment where we can go over his staging next week?*

With this script you have identified that you are a person who actively wants to treat their pet. Many people want to do nothing because they look OK on the outside. You have also established that you are asking for reasonable, evidence based assessments, and that there is mutual respect in terms of valuing each others time. You are also providing education without embarrassing a person who might not have CKD all worked out in their brain. It is a complex illness to deal with and not everyone lives, breathes and drinks CKD. To say no to this script is a red flag - something is wrong with the relationship.

*Dr.______, I realize she is 15, and I know that even if we try to treat her she might get worse. Even though that might happen, she’s been in my life 15 years, so I owe it to her to try. I understand it might not work. Can we begin with (problem #1), and then talk about “Problem #2” at my next recheck appointment next week?  *

By using this script you are identify that you are willing to share responsibility. You are letting them know that you are willing to try, and you wont resort to blame transfer or attacks if things don't work as expected. The treatments for pancreatitis and CKD can be quite similar (and sometimes one caused the other - see this post: Q&A — I Will Help Your Cat), so even if you are addressing one, chances are you will make the other better at the same time...

*None of that works? Find out if there is a mobile (large and small animal hospital) in the area. A “salt of the earth” farm vet who is very interested in helping may be more valuable to you than a small animal vet who for some reason isn't.*


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## Daniel (Oct 15, 2022)

From a horse vet at Reddit:

"I don’t work in small animal practice, but I’ve always wondered why the vets spend half their life giving vaccines. You’d never see a doctor give a vaccine, it’s always the nurse.  I think there is definitely a demand for a middle level clinician."


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## Daniel (Dec 6, 2022)




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