# Calling a Help Line



## greenstarz

If somone were to call a helpline, like a suicide helpline, what would happen.  Would they ask you questions, or would they just want you to talk?  What would you even say?  Would they make you give them you name and address, would they trace your number?  What would they do?  Does anyone have any experience with this??  Are people only supposed to call there if they are like one step away from doing it?  Or can people call if they are just having those thoughts but feel like they might be able to make it for awhile longer?  Is it better just to call your own mental health professionsals?  I'm just confused.  I'm just confused at what I feel anymore lately, it changes so much so often.  That in itself is so hard to handle.  I'm ok, I just need these answers so I'm not as scared aabout asking for help.  I've always just *acted* and did sometihing bad, I don't know if I've ever asked for help before acting.  I don't know.  I want to be better.


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*

To answer a couple of your questions:

No, you don't have to be feeling suicidal to call. A major goal of suicide prevention is to help prevent people from feeling that desperate in the first place.  For example, for the U.S. national suicide prevention hotline, you only have to be in "emotional distress" to call.  Most people who call are not suicidal.  

Also:



> In 723 of 1,431 calls, for example, the helper never got around to asking whether the caller was feeling suicidal.
> 
> http://forum.psychlinks.ca/suicide/9098-a-study-of-suicide-hotlines.html


----------



## rdw

*Re: calling a helpline*

Call and ask for help. If you are asking the question you know you need the help - call!


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

But what if they don't believe me, or what if they don't t hink it's a big deal....i can write how I feel, but when it comes to talking, I go blank and freeze.  Or worse, what if they trace the call and call the police and make me go to the hospital.  My mom thinks I should never be in the hospital, she thinks I'm making too big a deal out of it....not that I even see her often but she is usually the one that has to transport me. I wish I could be stornger and not feel this way.  I think I'll make it til tomorrwo to see my therapist.  I didnt tell my psychiatrist about how bad it was today because I didnt want her to send me inpatient.  I sort of wish I would have told her now.  Just taking that huge step of saying those words is too hard for me.  I wish my therapist would insist on me going in, but i dont want to go in as well.  I am so difficult when it comes to this i know I am.  I just get overwhelmed an would rather pretend nothing was wrong until all of a sudden it hits me and tears me apart which is how i feel righ t now.  but ill just take extra trazadone and maybe an  antihistimine and sleep a lot tonight.  sorry i went on like this. i just for a moment thought a helpline might be a good idea, but its too scary.


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*



> Is it better just to call your own mental health professionsals?



I think that would be more ideal, depending on the therapist's policy.  Some therapists are better than others at calling back, etc.    But certainly during off-hours like 2 AM in the morning a crisis hotline will usually be the way to go, I think.

And some therapists who work in a community clinic will just always ask patients to call a certain local crisis number if they are feeling suicidal so that there is no waiting around.


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

no one has tto reply to this.  im just trying to sort this out. I feel so desperate right now.  I feel like i should go to the hospital.  I;m not an immediate risk, i can make it though.  I just feel so trapped and alone and desperate.  I just want to give up so bad right now.  I hope my therapist suggests the hospital tomorrow, but what if i feel ok wehn i see her????  I don't know if that means I should even go to the hospital.  Am I ok enough to make it at home????  I feel so confused about going to the hositapl.  I need someone to force me to go.  I always feel like Im not sick enough to go even when I feel so bad.  I never knoww how sick is sick enough to go so i end up doing soemthing drastic to justify going to the hospital.  I feel so messed up inside right now.  I dont know what to even think anymore.  SHould I try to wait for the cymbalta to start working.....thats a LIFETIME until that hapens.  I dont feel like i fit anywhere.  I know i shouldnt be saying all of this.  I feel so lost.  I feel like i cant find any comfort anymore or relax anymore.  SOmethings wrong with me.  I dont know what this is thats happening righ now in my life.  I dont know if its the bipolar or borderline or what.  Ive read borderlines shouldnt be in the hospital.  I dont feel like i belong anywhere.  I just cant stop crying.  I feel suspended in spacce.  everything feels frozen.  i do want to end it but iim not threatening that or anything.  i hope my therapist sees how i feel, i hope i dont hide it, i hope i feel brave and i hope she talks aaout the hospital.  IM SORRY for wrtiting all of this......i can just imagine all of you people being so annoyed and fed up with my ramblings.  i feel like im a burden, im sorry i still feel that way to those of you whove tried to say i'm not.  i don't know why i cant believe you.  im sorry.


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*



> But what if they don't believe me, or what if they don't t hink it's a big deal....i can write how I feel, but when it comes to talking, I go blank and freeze. Or worse, what if they trace the call and call the police and make me go to the hospital.


 
BTW, from what I have just read elsewhere, it seems at least the U.S. hotline is currently do a great job at assessing risk -- neither being too overprotective or being dismissive.  

It seems the important thing when calling a crisis hotline is to answer their questions. A small minority of people who call will refuse to answer followup questions about suicide intent and will then hang up.  That seems to result in a call back and if no response, a possible call to 911.  But it seems only about 1 in 20 calls or so results in the police being involved.  And those calls are dramatically different than the other calls, e.g. the caller has a gun and seems at risk of suicide.


----------



## Banned

*Re: calling a helpline*

Hi greenstarz,

Even if you feel ok tomorrow make sure you mention how you've been feeling to your therapist so she can have an understanding of what you've been going through.  Therapy isn't necessarily about how you feel at the second you're in their office but how you've been doing since your last appointment.  

How long has it been since you started on the Cymbalta?

Have you been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder?  (Sorry if you mentioned that elsewhere - I haven't seen it if you did).  I'm diagnosed with Borderline and everything you're expressing is familiar to me.  I'm not saying that means you have Borderline if you havent' been diagnosed, just that what you're experiencing is not specific to you so please don't think that you're the only person who has felt this way - there are people who can truly empathize through their own experiences.

Right now the most important thing is to stay safe.  Do you have a means to ensure you stay safe until you see your therapist?  Please write as much as you need to - whatever will help.


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

i thinkive given up on the hlpline idea if theres a risk of them calling 911.  i cant take that risk. im too scared.  im sorry i dont mean to sound difficult.  

yes turtle, i have been diagnoised with bipolr and borderline.......thanks for undrestanding the feelings i feel......i just feel so  alone....thank ou for saying you understnad and have been through it.........i dont know what you mean about a means to ensure i stay safe.........im just going to try not to do anyting until i see my therapist.......sometimes it works if i say to myseld,,,,,u can hurt youself when u get home from therapy.  and then usually after i talk to my therapist i feel a little better, adnt the i set another time goal of what i have to do before i can hurt myself and just hope that i dont feel like it when that thing is over

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

i forgot to say.......i will start the cymbalta tomorrow.  i just got it today....i ws takingg welbutrin btu i guess it just hasnt been doing ag oog job


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*



> i forgot to say.......i will start the cymbalta tomorrow. i just got it today....i ws takingg welbutrin btu i guess it just hasnt been doing ag oog job



Yeah, I would think something more sedating could possibly help.  Cymbalta can be somewhat sedating as a side effect.   Wellbutrin is often somewhat stimulating, which can be good or bad depending on one's mental health status.

BTW, regarding the suicide hotline, an example of what I was talking about in regards to the police being called: "Repeatedly asked her if she could be safe today but she would not give an answer and kept going back to the idea that she really wanted to die."


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

i didnt know that...thansks for the info...........also sometone told me that geodon doseage above 180mg can cause irritablity.....today she bumped me up to 200mg......i dont know if that will make things worse now.....


----------



## Always Changing

*Re: calling a helpline*

an option that might help with talking with her _if_ you should need it. 

Would it help with your apt if you were to print off post #6,?? in this thread? 
I think it says so much about where you are  and how you are feeling and also how you are trying to cope, (exploring the options etc).  You could use it to remind yourself to tell her, or you could show it to her. This way ( if as you say you could be feeling ok when you see her,) she gets a good and clear understanding of where you are ( and have been this past week for inst). 


:hug:

---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------

How are you doing this morning Green?


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

i have copied that post you said and am doing a little editing and adding on some and am sending it to my therapist.  she might not read it by my appt time at 4:30, but maybe she will.  I will print it off and bring it as well.  sheneeds to know this stuff.  today is going to be another hard day.  i had a desperate idea of calling my brother once it gets a little later in the morning and seeing if he can come over.  but he works, but has days off.  maybe he'll be able to and that way i'll be safer.  i woulnd't hurt myself or OD with him around and i adore him and he is a joy to me andmakes me feel good.

you know, in real life i can not stand the sensation of touch.......but on here, hugs feel really good.  i hope you dont mind this: :grouphug4:


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*

Greenstarz,

I participated in a training course in suicide intervention, the same course used by people who staff crisis lines.  What they will likely do is ask you a number of questions, following a specific protocol to determine exactly what your need happens to be.  Once that is established and the counselor understands your situation, they should present you with various options available in your geographic area where you can go for help and guidance.  Their job is not to provide therapy, because they are not trained for that, but rather they are like St. John Ambulance, where they provide first aid, and then tell you where you can go to get professional help.  Then it's up to you to act on the information you've been given.

What's most important, when thoughts of suicide occur, is to reach out for help.  Suicidal thoughts are the result of distorted thinking, and by reaching out for help, you can be guided to professional resources.

Have you ever acted on your suicidal thoughts in the past, and tried to carry out your plan?  Do you actually have a plan at this time?  Do you have a therapist to whom you can report your thoughts of suicide?


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*

*
*


> they should present you with various options available in your geographic area where you can go for help and guidance.



And it seems in the U.S., the national hotline will usually refer the person to a local crisis center, which is listed on their website in the first place (though they don't list the crisis center phone numbers):

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline - Crisis Center Locator

For example, for the Miami hotline:  "More than 180,000 people per year call us for free, confidential telephone counseling, crisis intervention, suicide prevention, and information and referral services."


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*



Steve said:


> Have you ever acted on your suicidal thoughts in the past, and tried to carry out your plan?  Do you actually have a plan at this time?  Do you have a therapist to whom you can report your thoughts of suicide?



I have a therpaist that i se today, i am hoping i will be ablle to convey how i am feeling to her.  i have acted on the thoughts in the past and it wasw quite serious.  i have a plan currently but i feel like i always have a plan.  id ont know if it realy matters anymore.  i dont know if my therapist will do anything.


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*

BTW, you therapist can help you with further developing your coping skills, including relaxation techniques.    According to the studies done on DBT, such skills can help reduce the need for hospitalization while also lowering the risk of suicide (and the incidence of self-injury).


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*



> i dont know if my therapist will do anything.



That would be unfortunate, but if it is the case, it is up to you to locate a local resource that will assist you.  This is where your local crisis line can be of help, because they know the resources available in your geographic area.

Some options for resources could be a close and trusted family member or friend on whom you can call when you have thoughts of suicide, and who can come over and stay with you.  You might also have a spiritual advisor on whom you could call, the ER of your local hospital or try to find another therapist who will address your concerns more directly.

As a first step, get rid of the devices involved in your plan, and refrain from using alcohol or unprescribed drugs.  

Tell your therapist you currently have a plan and that youhave acted on a plan in the past.

Remember that suicidal thoughts are the result of ditorted thinking, and that your therapist should help you resolve that issue.  Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and there are always solutions to temporary problems.

Do you have family that you are close to nearby?


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*

At the minimum, increasing the frequency of therapy visits, such as to twice a week, may help.  But you may have done that already.

And, as Steve says, the most important thing you can do is to get rid of anything tempting, like old pills.      Even with people (like myself) who tend to mostly have just obsessive thoughts about suicide, getting rid of the means or anything related to that can decrease those obsessions.


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

my therapist stronly recommended that I go to the hospital, but she told me I have to decide.  RIght now I'm not going.  it's too hard to go. too my anxiety.
 too much work.  too many fears/

my therapist is going on vacation next week, but i would up it to two sessions if she were going to be here.  ive done that before and it has helped.  i dont knwo what i'm going to do for a whole week without her   she gave me the name of her co worker but ive never even met that person.

I have tons of old pills that i keep as a security blanket.  how do you even get rid of them?  what should I even do with them?  I'm talking a lot of pills.  I don't know if i can do it  get rid of them i mean.  I should have brought them to my therapist.  maybe thats a stupid idea.

i don't go around or drink alcohol---ever.  it's a big trigger for flashbacks.

As far as family or friends,I have my little brother.  I can't talk about how i feel with him really, but being with him does help distract me sometimes.  He wasn't able to come over today.  I don't know when I can see him next.

I still havne;t ruled out the hospital idea.  It's going to take a lot of thinking about it though.  It just seems like a mountian to actually get to the hospital.  BUt I am still thining about it.


----------



## Daniel

*Re: calling a helpline*



> how do you even get rid of them?




The environmentalists prefer that they not be flushed, but your can do whatever is best/safest for you. That's why the FDA still recommends flushing controlled substances down the toilet.

You can even mix the drugs with soda and used cat litter before throwing them away: Guidance on Proper Medication Disposal

Or your local pharmacy may have a free disposal program. 

How to Dispose of Unused Medicines

Pharmacist.com | APhA Provides Guidance on Proper Medication Disposal


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

*Re: calling a helpline*

greenstarz, 

Don't worry about not being sure.  If you feel this bad, just call.  They are there to help you, and assess where you're head is at...  They will be supportive like your therapist.

What we are saying is, the helpline people will only call 911 if you _don't_ answer them directly.  If they asked, "Do you feel like you want to end your life right now?" and if you say "No, I don't feel like I want to end everything right now, but I am just desperate and want peace and I can't get it" then they wouldn't call the police.  They would just talk to you and you'd probably feel a lot better. 

If you are asked "Do you feel like you want to end your life right now?" and if you _don't_ reply with a yes _or_ no, and then end the call before saying yes or no, they will worry that you are going to commit suicide and then they would call the police to protect you.  They would rather make an error on the cautious side than not know for sure.

If you are asked "Do you feel like you want to end your life right now?" and if you say, "Yes" then they might call the police or someone who could come to you, as long as they know someone is there with you to make sure you don't do anything to harm yourself.

No offense to you at all greenstarz, but just because your mom has opinions about you needing to be in the hospital or not, she doesn't seem like a very effective mind-reader.  What she seems to be more concerned about is if someone else found out her daughter was in the hospital.  She doesn't accept the fact that her daughter is in dire need of help because then she would have to take responsibility for something...  in my opinion...


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*

It sounds like your therapist has your best interests in mind. If she is recommending hospitalization, it may be worth your while to give that option serious consideration as you are doing. What is it about hospitaliztion that causes you anxiety?



> my therapist is going on vacation next week, ........ she gave me the name of her co worker but ive never even met that person



Another thoughtful offer for your benefit. Therapists usually have a backup colleague to care for their patients/clients when they have to be away. The stand by therapist usually has the same style as your own therapist and is there to help you. Doesn't matter if you never met her, as she is a professional available to help you. Consider the alternative..calling no one or calling someone able to help you if need be.



> I have tons of old pills that i keep as a security blanket...how do you even get rid of them?



There are a multitude of reasons for not keeping old medications, such as their loss of effectiveness after time with unpredictable results. Different communities have various services for disposal of unused medication. Call your pharmacist who may take them, or your local poison control center. Do Not flush them down the toilet because the medciations will enter the water supply downline. Other options are to dispose them in an incinerator or in a jar filled with water and in the trash, although that would be a last resort and least recommended.

*Here are the FDA's recommendations for disposing of unused medicines

*You are doing the right things in seeing your therapist, taking measures to protect yourself and giving thought about the recomended hospitalization.

Would you promise us that you will keep yourself safe until you see your therapist again after her vacation?


----------



## greenstarz

*Re: calling a helpline*

jolly, actually i just remembered that the last time i went into the hospital, in janurary, i called the hopital and talked to them first.  they asked me if i had plans of suicide and i told them yes, then they made me give my name and number and made me promise to come in within a time frame, and i did go in.  or else they said theyd send the police for a "well check" or somethinglik that.  so i guess thats sort of like calling the helpline.  the problem with me not wanting to call is that i want to be honest adn if i am i know they will say i have to come in.  so thats probably the big reason why i dont want to call.  im trying to wait this out, maybe ill feel better or something. or have a good enough distaction or something. i don't want to overreact.

steve, i do think my therapist has my best interests in mind.  i just wish she would force me to go and not make me make the decision.  but if she did that i would still fight her about it and tehn it turns really bad and she doesnt want to engage in that again.  i just get so confused and scared and overwhelmed with thoughts about thehopspital.  i cant even list all the bad thing s i feel about the hospital........but a few are, not feeling safe from the other patients, feeling not safe from myself, feeling like they are writing down everything i do, just feeling trapped, havning to adhere to the ways the want me to sleep, etc... in another trhead i said that if i could just stay in the seculsion room the whole time (with the door open) i would be much better, but i cant do that.  about the meds:i thought the idea daniel had about the used at cat litterand the meds was a good one.  if i do get rid of them thats probably what id do.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Hm...  Any news?  Have you heard back from your therapist yet?  

You seem to want to go to the hospital but some of the things they do are not perfect for your needs.  

Could you write a list of the pros for going to the hospital and then cons for going to the hospital?  And then write a list of the pros for waiting until you hear from your therapist, and the cons?  Which list has more pros and which list has more cons?

Or maybe just list reasons why you would _like_ to go to the hospital and the write a list about what's holding you back.  Could you present these to your therapist and maybe she can let you know if any of those reasons that are holding you back from the hospital can be controlled buy you.  Maybe it's perfectly fine that you can call the hospital and say that you need a chair in your room, because you cannot sleep in a bed.  Or heck bring in your own fold-our lawn chair if they say they can't accommodate you.   I would think it might be reasonable to ask if there are any rooms that are empty,  but there might be a problem if there are a lack of beds or something.  I think you have more control than you think over your situation.

Try not to worry about them writing stuff down about you.  Doctors and nurses have to chart stuff for every patient as a matter of follow-up.  If they administer a drug then don't note it down, that could be disaster for you.  I would think they need to jot down something brief about their patients' behaviours, so there is some accountability for the staff as to what treatment they provided.  Everybody gets the same treatment and gets their own file.


----------



## greenstarz

hi jolly, i just been really tired today, i took an antihistimine for my hives twice  and it didnt fully knock me out but i slept a lot.  i was on and off the computer but i couldnt focus my eyes too well.  i feel more awake now and can focus myeyes at least.  i just feel so tired still.  but im glad i was able to sleep more...i really need to sleep more.

i can make those lists about the hospital...........i havent thought a bout thehospital much today....i havent really thought about much,,,,,i just cant think....its just that no thoughts come......i wish i could say more right now im just so tired......i actually felt comfortable sleeping for once.......i just feel numb today emotionally so i dont know....my theraist leaves tomorrow and hasnt responded to me yet   i feel frozen my thoughts just feel frozen..........i dont know whats going to happen next with how i feel or think......im just sort of a zombie

---------- Post added at 11:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

benefits of hospital-- Feel like I'm doing somethjing to fix myself, Better control/adjustment of meds,  feel unsafe at home, feel so alone and desperate and lost at home, feel suicidal at times at home--hospital would help with that, 


drawbacks of hospital--- Trapped there, Bad sleeping situation there, unsafe people there possibly, feel unsafe there, lots of anxiety getting ready to go, too hard to go through intake, feel anxious while there, too rigid of a schedule there, body search upon intake big trigger,

---------- Post added July 23rd, 2011 at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was July 22nd, 2011 at 11:55 PM ----------

I'm really confused.  I am really conused about how I feel.  SOmetimes it's more of an "end it all, suicidal" feeling then other times.  Does that mean I should wait and see if it passes when that happens?  How do I know if it's it's gotten too bad and the feelings have gone too far?  I can't say for sure all the time if I'll be safe.  But then I usualy make it through those times, so should I just wait it out?  I just feel so confused.  These feelings confuse me so much. I can't think anymore, i just cant seem to get any conclusions from my thoughts.  I try to figure out what I want to do, but I can't figure out anything.  I wish my therapist would have just told me what to do instead of leaving it up to me.  I have such a hard time asking for help iin real life.  What if they don't think it's bad enough or they don't believe me?  What if it really isn't bad enough and I'm making a big deal about these feelings adn then they pass.  Because they do pass sometimes, but usually they come back.  SO I don't feel like this 24 hours a day, so does that mean I can handle this at home.  And even when I'm in the hospital I nevr tell them how I feel because I';m afraid they will think I just feel sorry for myself and tht I should be able to handle it  and not talk about it.  I wish I could communicate with them like how I do here.  I feel like I can communicate accurately here.  But in person, with words, speaking, live, forget it.  I'm so stuck and I don't even really kiknow what if the hospital will be any help.  I need a treatment center to work on my problems.  Some place with real therapy, intensive therapy.  But I don't even know what issue it even is that I need the most help with.  I just feel like I've tried everything and I've taken all the meds and I'm still stuck.  I feel like nothing will be able to help me.  I am at the end of my rope.  I feel like it's too hard to even care, that I don;t even care anymore.  I just need an escape.  Today felt a little more like it was a little it of an escape.  I think the hospital has the potentioal of feeling like an escape, but where does it get me once I have to be released.  And I've been told not to go to the hospital for that reason by other professionals.  That's not why you go to the hospital.  But living is just so hard to do anymore.  I just wwant to give up.


----------



## Daniel

> I just feel like I've tried everything and I've taken all the meds and  I'm still stuck.  I feel like nothing will be able to help me.  I am at  the end of my rope.



What about living one day at a time?  Or better yet, one moment at a time? 




> SO I don't feel like this 24 hours a day



Similarly:



> *DON'T *make the mistake of thinking that depression is present  reality. There's nothing that seems realer than depression. But  depression is thinking about how bad you feel. Any thinking about  feelings is replaying as present, the feeling that you had that has  already past. You always experience feelings 'after the fact.'  Depression is old stuff masquerading as present reality.
> 
> So another way to get out of depression is to get to live in the NOW.  Get into present reality. Depression is self-focusing so you want to  outer-focus. Depression is subjective so you want to think objective  thoughts. Look around and connect to present reality by noticing the  color of the wall, the pattern of the sofa.
> 
> http://forum.psychlinks.ca/depression/8653-the-many-donts-of-depression.html


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

> What if they don't think it's bad enough or they don't believe me?  What  if it really isn't bad enough and I'm making a big deal about these  feelings adn then they pass.  Because they do pass sometimes, but  usually they come back.



It's okay greenstarz, "they" will take you seriously.  They are required to.  If you say you are suicidal or that you aren't sure, they will still want to help you.  

 Daniel does have an excellent point though.  He is suggesting to try to get past those thoughts by focusing on something going on right now that is not the thoughts in your head.  If that's all you can do while your therapist is on vacation, then do that.   Distract yourself.  You don't need to deal with these thoughts when you have no support system available to you.

If, on the other hand, you feel like you are about to act on those thoughts, as soon as you begin to pick up something that will do harm to you or your feet start to take you somewhere unsafe then instead make your hands and feet go to the phone and pick it up and dial for help.  Personally I wouldn't expect someone to wait, especially if the thoughts are recurring.  

You just take care of your inner child.  If she needs help, you get it for her, okay?  Just like you did with the prescriptions.


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*



> Does that mean I should wait and see if it passes when that happens? How do I know if it's it's gotten too bad and the feelings have gone too far?



If you were experiencing chest pains and unable to breathe it's ulinkely you would think about waiting a few days to see if it passes.  The same rationale should be applied to mod changes,feelings of depression and thoughts of suicide.

These are abnormal thought patterns, and are are symptoms of a medical illness that need professional intervention.  These thought patterns cause distorted thinking that adversely affect your ability to process logical thought and distort reality.

You are still in control and the choices you make can affect your quality of life.   For that reason you need to follow up on your therepist's advice, and either call her colleague immediately or choose the other option to become hospitalized where you can receive the care and treatment you need at this time.

Waiting to see if it will pass is only doing harm to yourself and causing you distress which you do not deserve.

Will you call the your therapist or her colleague to report the way you feel at this time?


----------



## Always Changing

> Personally I wouldn't expect someone to wait, especially if the thoughts are recurring.


 I agree with you JJ.  I don't know that Anyone can guarantee someone can be safe at any given time when having recurrent suicidal thoughts.  All it takes is for ONE of those times to be the one that doesn't pass. Especially when a person has the means at their disposal.  



> I try to figure out what I want to do,


 Rather than _want_.. how about NEED? 
Like you Greenstarz, A while back, I was having recurrent suicidal thoughts.. I was in a bad place really seriously depressed. My thought process was in ways similar to yours, I used to think, maybe it will pass, it has passed before etc,  but !! I just didn't know if the next time would be the one where I would not come back. I reached a point (back then) where I did not trust that I could or even would want to get through the next time. 
 My admittance to hospital came about during one of my visits to my psych,  I had to say that "I cannot  not trust that I will get through the next time I think about ending it  all".  That day I went into hospital and stayed there until I stabilized.  It _was_ my choice and it was very very hard to make and at the same time, I knew (with help with my thinking)  I _*needed to be safe*_,  *I did not want *to go into hospital for various reasons some similar to yours above. I also had issues with my stay there but at least I was alive to deal with them afterwards.

Its your life on the line, Greenstarz.  as was mine.  I am here today *only because* I (with help from my psych and here) laid it out on the line, (as you have done) and took the advice of my psych.  Following your therapists advice is allowing you control over your life.  

I hope which ever choice you make, its one that keeps you safe.


----------



## Daniel

> I wish my therapist would have just told me what to do instead of leaving it up to me.



Forcing one's client into hospitalization isn't something any therapist wants to do -- not to mention the client can usually leave against medical advice within 72 hours.   

There is a long, long history of the rights of mentally ill people being trampled on.  Nowadays, one's rights are given more preference over one's absolute safety.  Otherwise, if absolute safety was the number one issue, why not hospitalize someone for a year rather than just a week?

In any case, you can call the other therapist for advice.  Just talking about your suicidal thoughts to a professional can help a lot.  Even if it is just for a few minutes.

Personally, when I was a lot younger and had 2 years of on-and-off emotional instability after high school, I used to call my psychiatrist during off-hours more than I did my therapist.


----------



## greenstarz

Sorry for replying so late.  i havent been feeling well physically today.  my stomach is really upset.

I asked mybrotherto come over today aand he did for severall hours. it was a good distraction.  i am trhying to take it one moment at a time and it been ok.  

steve, what you said about not waiting if you have chest pains to get help really made an impact on me.  I don't know what else to say.  It made me think.   

I think i'll be ok though for tonight. I dont even feel like I can SI anymore. I know you'd think that was a good thing.  But it's like I dont even care enough to SI.  Tomorrow or monday I'm supposed to get my stitches out.  I'm promising myself to be safe til then.  I'll have to somehow make myself go to the dr/clinic that i go to. or else I can take them out myself.  I know how, it's reallyeasy and I've done it before.  But I know it's not the best idea.  I just feel so sick right now physically.  I just wnt to try to  sleep.  I really think i'll be ok for now.  I'm so tired.  S(orry I don't make more sense.


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*



> I'll have to somehow make myself go to the dr/clinic that i go to. or else I can take them out myself



Doing a medical procedure on yourself is never a good idea; there are many risks that an untrained person is unaware of.  It may seem simple enough, but let's face it, you probably wouldn't pull your own tooth!

Take the time to take care of yourself, and taking it one step at a time, visit your clinic for those stitches.

Get some sleep, and deal with tomorrow's activities, one step at a time in the morning.

Keep safe.


----------



## greenstarz

tkanks.  Well it's another day now. My sleep is so awful.  I barelysleep at all. I have nightmares as soon as I close my eyes, and then intrusive thoughts of the nightmares for hours after I wake up.  I slept a lot the other day with the antihistimine and am thinkg of taking it now.  its only 4:30and I've honestly only been asleep for likean hour.My stomach feels alot better, not perfect though.  Ijust had really sharp painsin my stomach yesterday for some reason.  I don't know what it was even from, but it's starting to go away.  Ihave to go buycigarettesbecause I'm completely out.  I don't want to go until at least 5:30 though.  I am justgenerallly afraid of the night. Ican't think about the whole day right now.  only up until getting cigarettes.  That's all I can handle right now.  Thaen I was to sleep more.  Last time I was in the hospital I literally slept like 2 hoursa night then sat awake in the dayroom for the rest of the night and the next day.  I didn't take naps, I didn't drink caffene, I was taking tons of trazadone.  I truly am hopeless about sleep.  It is a big struggle for me and hasalways been.  I'm an extreemely light sleeper, I wake up at anything, but tthe trazadonehelps with that a little.  Buit not much. Ijust can't seem to find rest anymore.  I;m so sicck of it.


----------



## Always Changing

I hate not having my cig first thing in the mornings!!   Coffee and cig.    what would I do without them!   :facepalm:

What about trying to write down those nightmares using the intrusive thoughts to do so.    You wake from nightmare, and start thinking back on it,, what if while thinking back on it (them) you were writing every thought as it came.  We here know you are so good at writing that it would be a two fold exercise if you like.     1 the obvious, you are writing down the nightmare\intrusive thoughts etc, and  2 you are using the time to in a way disctract yourself from becoming too IN THERE with the thoughts.    
nightmare...  was about etc etc..   next thing intrusive thought shows up, but you are waiting for it, write down what it is and where you think it ties in with the nightmare..    then when you make the link.. you go..  AH! got ya. now I know why i had that thought.  then close the story and do something else..  
talk to the cats.. 

I am just making chat here because its so early for you and you have to wait for the time to go get the cigs.       If anything i write is too far fetched or off the wall we can ask someone to delete it. 

---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

Odd!   have refreshed this page a couple of times,  and each time I refreshed.. a copy of the post is still in this reply box..    hmmmmmmm  then I was going to edit that reply...but of course I ran out of time.!   and still that post is in this box...


----------



## greenstarz

I know AC, me too, coffee and cigarette.....gotta have it first thing.Ijust didn't want to go last night because I had so much pain in my stomach. I was lliterally thinking of going to the ER because it hurt so bad. I was just curled up in a ball practically because of it.  It was awful. But I just got back from the gas station now but I'm not going tohave any coffee in case it would upset my stomach.  Just being careful.  

I have tried writing down my dreams before and its beenreallyhelpful actually.  Actually I'm not sure why I don't do it more.  I think i just am in a place of so much fear at the time I wake up that I forget to do things like that.  I'm going to try to do that more from now on.  Right nowI'm doing ok from nightmares.  I think going out and driving and going to the gas station helped with getting past it.  I don't know if that makes sense atall...

Oh and another thing....  I drove right past the hospital I would be going to if I decided or still decide to go to the hospital.  It's a small private psych hospital with only like 42 beds.  Someone was walking in as I drove by. Ithought to myself that it would be so much of a burden off of me if I just checked in.  I don't know. I'm sick of fighting.


----------



## Always Changing

(So!  what stopped _you_ from checking in at that moment?       )

what you said about driving to the garage etc helps get past it.. yep it all helps.    Perfect sense.   You had something to do other than sit and think or dwell on your feelings or thoughts.   :2thumbs:


----------



## greenstarz

I know you're just kidding, but I did think hard about why I'm not in there right now. I still havn't really figured it out.  I don't know why I get so confused about that decision each time.  I don't know.


----------



## Always Changing

Me????  Kidding!!  NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!  

I never really answered that question for myself all those years ago,  and I was stopped at the entrance to a hospital at the time (on one occasion) & on the phone to a psych nurse.     I guess it may mean not ready or something, not the right time, I guess we can come up with all sorts of reasons\excuses etc,   But at the same time I know NOW that _IF_ I had gone in there, I most likely would have saved myself a lot of agonizing and heartache. 

It is not an easy thing to do, mentally I mean.  Practically sure is simple, just drive in and park the car.!!


----------



## Retired

*Re: calling a helpline*



> coffee and cigarette.....gotta have it first thing



Consider giving up both, _permanently_..in the interests of better sleep and overall good health.


----------



## Always Changing

Now there's a man with a sense of humor..


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Excellent idea about writing down dreams...  It's something I think I might need to do, too, especially lately.   I would write them down and even share them with my therapist and we'd see if we could figure out if it was just a dream or if there was actually some meaning behind it.

I mentioned in another thread somewhere a dream where I was constantly trying to find some self-identity and on a seemingly impossible journey inside my own head (house with lots of passageways and distractions)...   The only reason I remember it in such sharp detail is because when I got up from the dream I wrote it down immediately.

I think it helps in another way, of course, which is once you write it down on paper/computer it seems to come out of your head and stay on the paper.  It's like once that thought/dream is out in the light of day, it's effects on my mind are much less.  You know what I'm talkin' about?


----------



## greenstarz

Steve, I only drink one or two cups of coffee in the early morning before 7am and than none.  But the smoking thing, I agree, has to stop.  I just can't deal with thinking of quitting right now.  But it costs way too much money for me/

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what made them decide to go into thhe hospital......AC i know you already said in a post, that you couldn't gaurentee if the next time you felt suicidal you wouldn't act on it.  That's one reason.  I guess I feel thatway a lot too.  I never know how much control I will have over any of the feelings to hurt myself that I get.  When I was little I used to get these awful feelings like I was going to loose control and start stabbing people with knives.  It was shortly after my little brother was born, and I was terrified of those feelings, I was about 8 or 9.  I knew they were bad feelings to have and I knew I could never tell anyone about them.  What I would do was lay on my floor and pretend I was glued there and unable to m.ove until the feelings passed and I felt like I wouldn't hurt anyone.  I didn't want to hurt anyone, but the feelings were so strong.  So that's what I sort of do with the suicidal thoughts I have now.  I pretend I'm glued down and can't move, that way I don't get up and act on it.  Sometimes it's really hard to stay that way.  

I was just wondeiring, to anyone, what finally made them decide to go?  Was there ever a reason other than being suicidal that youwent?  I've said this before but I've always been told to only be there if you're absolutely suicidal.  Which makes it hard to judge when to go for me.  I don't know how to say what I am thinking here.  SIgh.  I hope you all aren't mad that I havn't gone yet.  I just need to talk about this.  I got my stitches out earlier and the dr asked hwo I was feeling...I told him fine.  I don't know him too well.  I thought about telling him the truth but didn't know what would happen.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

jolly, you areso true about after writing the dream down,  it gets it out of your head and is so much easier to handle.  When I was writing mine down before, I never shared them with anyone (therapist) because i just was like.....very disturbed by them and didn't know what my therapist at the time would think of me based on some of the things in the dreams


----------



## Retired

I'm glad to hear your stitches came out, under medical supervision, of course.  No need to withold information from a doctor, even if you don't have a rapport with that individual.  Doctors are trained to evaluate their patients objectively, so prior relationships should have little or no impact on the doctor's ability to advise you, as long as your medical history is available.

On the other hand, if the doctor you are seeing is performing one specific task, such as removing stitches or being consulted for a diagnostic purpose, chances are you would be advised to see your regular physician.

Considering the enormous stress you appear to be under at the moment, it is probably not a good time to add trying to give up smoking; however, if you can cut down gradually, that would help in the long run.  Once you feel stabilized, then you can discuss smoking cessation with your doctor.

If you find it difficult to sleep, there may be a multitude fo reasons that should be discussed with your doctor, but cutting caffeine out of your daily routine would probably help.  I am not a coffee drinker due to migraine, but I understand coffe cannot be stoped cold turkey, but you may consider tapering gradually so that you do not drink coffee, even in the morning.  Then, staya way from caffeinated beverages, chocolate and even regular tea that often contains caffeine.

There may be other factors involved in your difficulty to sleep, but eliminating caffeine might be a worthwhile first step.

Why consider hospitalization?

The structure of the hospital environment helps alleviate the stress of daily life, thereby providing a sound foundation to receive treatment and therapy.  Doctors can evaluate your condition thoroughly, while the nurses help you with routine tasks, again lessening stress and worry.  Once the doctors make their diagnosis, your treatment can begin in a controlled environment, so modifications can be made in a timely manner to respond to any changes they observe, because you are being seen and followed on a regular basis.

People who work in hospitals, doctors, nurses, diagnostic staff and even many adminitrative staff are in that professsion because they like people, they care for people and want to help bring people back to good health.

For you, the benefit is that hospitalization may be your best chance to regain the quality of life you deserve.


----------



## Daniel

> I've said this before but I've always been told to only be there if you're absolutely suicidal.



To add to what Steve said:



> When I?m talking with a client and they seem to be having a hard time  just  getting themselves together to carry out daily tasks, I know that   they probably need more than  I can do in an hour, or even two hours, a  week.  This is especially true if  they are  not sleeping or eating,  talking about death, or just too emotional to perform work or  household  responsibilities.  If they seem hopeless or have recently experienced  an important personal loss, I take this into consideration, as well.   Certainly, if death comes up, I want to know more about their thoughts,  but I don?t automatically assume they  need to be hospitalized.  It does   mean I need to pay attention  and  take some kind of action.  The  first action is to really listen and ask  questions to get more of an  idea of  what their thoughts are (previous attempts,  clear intent,  plan, means,  making preparations, justifying suicide, etc).  I want to  know if they really want to die or if they just want anything that will  make them feel different.  I  want to know what  or who matters to them  or  reasons they have for wanting to stay alive/keep trying.
> 
> I rarely have clients  hospitalized.   When I do, its generally  voluntary and it is for clear  overwhelming  suicidal thinking.   What I  am more likely to do with a client who is having  severe symptoms and  significant problems functioning is suggest that they participate in   the intensive day programs  that take place at several local hospitals.   Some call them  intensive outpatient or partial hospitalization   programs.  They are outpatient and usually take place from 9:00 am to  3:00 pm.  These programs involve  individual and group counseling and  support sessions,  skills training in emotion regulation,  consulting  with  psychiatrists, and  family  education/counseling.  I would much  rather someone do this than have to stay overnight in the hospital,  particularly when they  have a family at home.  This is much less  frightening to clients than  the idea of inpatient hospitalization.    Plus, it is easier to get someone into  one of these programs than it is  to  try getting them  admitted into the psychiatric unit of a hospital.
> _
> from the comments at:_ When Should You Consider Hospitalization for Depression? | World of Psychology



Unfortunately, most psych hospitals (that I have been to, anyway) don't offer partial hospitalization.  But if you live in a large enough town or city, there is probably at least one.

From what I remember, most private insurance providers don't usually pay for partial hospitalization.  But that may be different for Medicaid and Medicare:



> Funding ? the majority of service providers are funded by fees collected from Medicaid.
> 
> Currently, many providers are moving away from the partial hospitalization model of day treatment and are adopting a psychosocial rehabilitation  (PSR) model instead. The focus of PSR is on patient (or "member," as  they are often referred to) empowerment, while seeking to "rehabilitate"  patients with chronic mental illness so they can function more  independently in the local community (see Clubhouse Model of Psychosocial Rehabilitation for a description of these types of services).
> 
> Partial hospitalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## greenstarz

Steve, I am not trying to argue with you heree, but the quality of therapy and that type of stuff, even the quality of med management during the hospital stays I've had has been awful. Thehospital I would choose to go to has an adult psych until and an adult addiction unit. They do combined groups for both units and most of the people are dealing with addiction issues, so that is what the groups are all about. 

I don't use drugs or alcohol so it's of no benefit to me. That is all of the therapy type of thing they have for the inpatients. I would choose that hospital over the others because everything else about it is much better and more comfortable for me. I suppose then, the only reason I should go is for being suicidal. Today has been a bad day so far and I;ve injured again, I just needed to escape. 

Ive noticed that I;m starting to want to talk the antihistimines every time i start to feel it wareing off. I like the sleepyness and mellowed out groggy feeling it gives me. Theyre not addictive or anything, but I don't this to get to besomething I start doing all the time. I;m feeling really depressed today and am moving again towards the decision to go to the hospital. 

I still feel like I;m safe enough to sink into the couch and fade away with the meds still though. I'm sorry I keep going on like this alll the time over and over. I told myself I wasnt going to keep saying stuff about going to thehospital unless I had made the decision to go so that I don't frustrate anyone, but Ijust have to get these thoughts out of my head. 

I apologixe if it looks like I just keep talking about thsi and doing nothing. I honestly am doing something, I am thinking through all of it and trying to decide. I am trying to fight so hard about this. I think that one part of me is fighting it and saying no no no dont go, but the other, rational, part of me thinks I might need it more and more every day. I am just so confused and froxen. I hope you understand. I'm sorry.

Daniel.. My city has one partial hospitalization program but it's only for people coming out of the hospital adn readjusting to regular life. My therapist and I have looked into that option in the past. There are partial programs for drug rehab but not for psychiatrist illness. It really frustrates me because if I had to do somethign, i would be more willing to do a program like that instead of inpatient. But it's just not an option. We only have inpatient programs.

Right now I guess I just feel unable to make any decision. Idont know if that is from teh depression, or from fear or worry about what people in my life would think or just laziness.. I just cant do anything. its just too hard. i'm just too tired to act on anything I decide right nwo. Please understand


----------



## Retired

Greenstarz,

I'm sorry to hear you are experiencing these difficult decisions.  Nothing you have said is argumentative in any way, and it appears clear you are struggling with having to make this important decision.

I believe decisions should be made after trying to gather as much available information as possible, and on considering the benefits and disadavantages of one choice over the other.  Sometimes the information requires an informed person to help interpret the options, because we may not be sufficiently knowledgeable about the subject.

Specialists usually come under the category of professionals such as lawyers, accountants and doctors.

Here is where you might consider consulting a specialist, like your personal doctor, familiar with your medical history and the medical facilities in your area to help you decide what's best for you.

Others you might consider discussing your options with could be a trusted family member or friend or a spiritual advisor but I feel your doctor should be the primary consultant.

With this information on hand, and weighing your options, look at your present quality of life and then ask yourself what steps need to be taken to regain the quality of life you strive for and make a plan on how to achieve that goal.  It may require several intermediate steps, but once you figure out a plan toward good health, you need to commit to it and work at it until you can enjoy the quality of live you deserve.




> Ive noticed that I;m starting to want to talk the *antihistimines* every time i start to feel it wareing off.



What's this about? Is this something prescribed by your doctor or over the counter preparations that you take for what purpose?


----------



## greenstarz

Thanks Steve.  If my therapist were in town, I would be talking about it with her.  But ultimately she would say it had to be my decision.  Making such a huge decision right now to me seems impossible.  

I guess I should consider calling my psychiatrist.  But I am  terrified to call her.  I saw her last week (i think it was only last week) and didn't tell her at all about the suicidal thoughts.  I just didn't feel comfortable enough with her yet to tell her that.  I've only been seeing her for a few months.  Now if I were to call her, I don't know if she would take it seriously or beleive me.  It's very difficult for me to call people, especially people like mypsychiatrist or even my therapist.  It's justa huge thing for me to actually do.  Plus, I don't know if I'm prepared for what she might say--to go to the hospital.  

Then there's the other counselor my therapist gave me to call.... that's an option, but she doesn't know me.  I  think the only thing she mihgt be able to do is talk through the pros and cons, but I've already done that here.

I could call the hospital.  Actually, if I get up enough courage and strength to actuallycall somewhere, that is probably what I would do.  Last time I was there, they said I could call anytime I needed to in the future.  I wouldn't have to tell them how bad it is, so that they don't just automatically say, "come in right now" and not let me give my reasons for wanting to not go in.  Do you know what I mean?  I could justsay I've been  considering going into the hospital and say some of the things I've been struggling with.  I really think that would probably be the best choice out of the three I just listed.  But I'm paralyzed with fear about actually doing it.  I think it has a lot to do with the social phobia I have.  I know it's not impossible to do, but it is very very hard for me, plus the depression makes it even harder to do.  I don't know how to force myself to do it.  I am just not able to right now 

I saw the post you made about antihistamines as sleep aids.  Yes, I was using them to sleep....to sleep all day and night.  It didnt work too well, but I was groggy enough to not be fully with it which was better than being awake.  At night though pretty bizarre things have been happening.  I looked in the bathroom this morning and saw this candle that I had been saving because it was so pretty the way it was wrapped  up.  Well, I vaguely remember unwrapping it in a semi asleep state last night and trying to wash my hands with it as if it was soap.  I also remember other weird things I started doing in a semi sleep state last night.  SO I think that maybe the antihistamine with the trazodone is too much at night.  But still, it doesn;t knock me out completely.  I just am looking for quality sleep, which I have never in my life had.  never. That makes me very desperate right now because I wish I could just escape to sleep all the time but I cant because of what I just said, and also because when I do sleep it's filled with nightmares.


----------



## Always Changing

> I could call the hospital................ I wouldn't have to tell them how bad it is, so that they don't just  automatically say, "come in right now" and not let me give my reasons  for wanting to not go in.


Forgive me for taking this out of context to the rest of your post Greenstarz,  But haven't you said somewhere that you wish some else could make the decision for you?.   
You are really agonizing over this and I really really feel for you,  maybe it's time to stop thinking of all the obstacles (reasons for not going in,)  and let those who can make that decision make it. 

I know the pro's and con's are important to work out, the most important Pro here is as I see it,  is that you will be SAFE,  the agonising over  will you or won't you will stop churning in your head.   

Try the hospital and see what comes of it.. you won't know until you make the call. 





> I know it's not impossible to do, but it is very very hard for me,


 I can relate  and understand this so well.  :hug: 

You can always hang up.


----------



## Retired

There are some very good options your physician might offer to improve your sleep, that won't be disruptive in the way repeated use of antihistamines have caused for you.

Your psychiatrist should not be shocked, surprised, offended or disappointed if you reveal your suicidal thoughts. Your psychiatrist is a professional whose only interest should be to fully understand your symptoms and to provide you with rational options that might improve your illness.

Your psychiatrist is not a mind reader, so the only way to get the treatment and help you need is to fully disclose all your concerns.


----------



## greenstarz

imsorry  i just really really need to talk to my therapist right now and its the one thing I can'tdo  i feel like she doesnt care about me or what happens to me   i know thats bad and wrong, but i cant help thinking those things.  i feel so alone, like i'm never going to see her again.  and i'm so mad at her for not being there right now......i just need her right now so bad   you are right AC, that i did say I just want someone to decide for me, but when it comes down to it, i dont like the decision they would make to make me go in, but i just feel so alone and unsafe not being in.  i don't kno w  whats wrong with me, why i think these ways, why i cant decide  or just let someone decide for me.  pretty much nothing is a good decision right now.  i feel so hopeless about even the whole hospital situation.  and even if i went its not like it would do anything.  its not even like i'd really be safe.  i can hurt myself or worse there.  they don;t care.  i don't feel safe anywhere.  there's no where i can go to get away from hurting myself......i feel so overwhelmed and hopeless with that.  i know im completely annoying right now and im so sorry.  i dont know whats wrong with me   i just keep going in circles and i just cant stop it.  i need my therapist right now....i just wish icould takl to her so much 

steve...i am also using the antihistamine for my hives that i get on myhands and feet and other places.....i think theyre from anxiety but now im not sure...but ive been taking it when i dont have any hives either to make me groggy


----------



## Daniel

BTW: http://forum.psychlinks.ca/therapy-...ope-when-your-therapist-goes-on-vacation.html


----------



## Always Changing

> i don't kno w  whats wrong with me,


  spiking high anxiety, Seriously depressed, Si'ing, suicidal at times, distorted thinking, self medicating .  And you are trying to cope on your own with this.   

Greenstarz What would you say to me if the situation were reversed and you were reading the above.?

You are not annoying in the least,  (actually I was thinking that it was I that might be annoying you.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Hi greenstarz,

Did you say earlier that your regular therapist is on vacation?  But you have two other people you can call?

It's definitely not a good sign if you need to constantly numb yourself and freeze yourself into some kind of hibernation with any drug, even with antihistamines...  If you are doing that in an effort not to feel like acting on your suicidal thoughts or because you are trying to numb yourself, then isn't that a sign right there that you can't deal with things on your own anymore??  You are going to make yourself sick or make yourself so groggy that you can't do anything?   What happens if you make yourself seriously ill on the antihistamines and you don't call the hospital or anyone?  You will feel worse and worse, and then you might try some other drug on top of what you are already taking.  This is risky. 



> Another  situation that often leads to antihistamine overdose is when  Benadryl is used recreationally.  Use of antihistamines in high doses  delivers  a deliriant effect.  The effect has been  described as  dreaming while being awake, including visual and auditory  hallucinations.  The difference between these hallucinations  and those  that are experienced by users of LSD is that those hallucinating on   Benadryl are not able to tell the difference between the hallucinations  and  reality.  Habitual abuse of  diphenhydramine is not common because  the hallucinations are frequently  unpleasant.  Also, people who are   inexperienced at using hallucinogenics are likely to feel panic.


 and that is a direct quote from Antihistamine Overdose | Overdose Symptoms  I don't want to be overdramatic, but have you been keeping track of how many antihistamines you are taking??  

You_ can _overdose on it.  





> Overdose  beyond the recreational range of eight to ten pills, can be  very serious.  Taking 30 or more pills can lead to heart  attack, coma,  and death.  Symptoms of  antihistamine overdose include:   agitation,  blurred vision, coma, confusion, delirium, diarrhea,  drowsiness, dry  mouth, flushing of the face, inability to urinate, lack of  sweat,  fever, motor skill deficits, nausea, rapid heart rate, and unsteadiness.


 They say in that link that if you think you have overdosed on antihistamines to call 911 ASAP.

I would think that because you don't actually have a cold, and are so desperate to stop those thoughts, then you are probably using more than normal the recommended amount.  Please call your psychiatrist, the helpline, or the hospital, okay, greenstarz?   Call someone who will know what to do and will help you.


----------



## Retired

> antihistamine for my hives



Speak to your doctor, there may be alternatives for treating the symptoms of your hives.  If the antihistamine is making you drowsy, then try calamine lotion on the hives to relieve the itch....as a replacement for the antihistamine until you can speak to the doctor.


----------



## greenstarz

daniel, the links you gave have helped me understand stuff better and have helped me with ideas on how to cope.  im going to write sstuff down to talk about with my therapist about all of this when she gets back.

AC you are not annoying, you are all so kind and supportive.  thank you all so much.  AC, i would tell you it;s time for the hospital if you told me all of that.  urgh

jolly, thanks for all that info you posted, ive decided to stop with the antihistamines unless i need it for severe hives and then i'll only  take one.  and as soon as i can talk to a dr ill see if they can give me something safer and more effective.i just  got kkiinda out of control with them because of the relief from reality that it gave me.  but i promise i wont do thart annymore.  

i emailed a member from my bipolar support group who is pretty stable and healthy mentally.  she take good care of herself mentally and is strong and well.  she is an older lady and has wisdojm and experienvce.  i told her what was happening because i've missed the last few groups and i'm waiyting for her reply. i'm hoping she will be able to be helpful or at least supportive,  i feel like that's a good step for me.  mayybe she can help me call the hospital...i don;t jknow.

ireally appreciate all of your support and paticence andunderstanding.  it has honestly been all of you that have gotten me through this far.  

right now i feel so numb and dead i can barely move.  everything just feels in slow motion right now.  i feel so hopeless that i will ever truly find relief from this.  i don't want to live this way anymore.  i hope i find the strength to call the hospital with that lady tomorrow   it hurts so much


----------



## Daniel

> i feel so hopeless that i will ever truly find relief from this.



Whenever you find your copy of _Feeling Good_, the chapter on hopelessness/suicide is chapter 15.  Some excerpts are online:   "Defeating Hopelessness & Suicide"

From the end of the chapter (pg. 404, which is not online): 





> Your feelings of hopelessness and total despair are just symptoms of depressive illness, not facts.  If you think you are hopeless, you will naturally feel this way.  Your feelings only trace the illogical pattern of your thinking.  Only an expert, who has treated hundreds of depressed individuals, would be in a position to give a meaningful prognosis for recovery.  Your suicidal urge merely indicates the need for treatment.  Thus, your conviction that you are "hopeless" nearly always proves you are not.  Therapy, not suicide, is indicated. Although generalizations can be misleading, I let the following rule of thumb guide me:  Patients who _feel_ hopeless _never actually are_ hopeless.
> 
> The conviction of hopelessness is one of the most curious aspects of depressive illness. In fact, the degree of hopelessness experienced by seriously depressed patients who have an excellent prognosis is usually greater than in terminal malignancy patients with a poor prognosis.
> 
> Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy



Also, from another good author, Robert Leahy:
Challenging Your Hopelessness

"Nothing Works Out: How to Challenge Your Hopelessness"

​


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Hey greenstarz, just popping into the forum to see how things are going.  Did that lady touch base with you?  Emailing probably isn't the fastest way to get help, but if you didn't have her phone number then it's better than nothing.  It's just sometimes people don't read their email for days, or are on vacation, or have computer problems, etc...

Is there an actual phone number you can call if she hasn't responded to your email yet?


----------



## greenstarz

daniel.. i read the chaepter from the link you posted.  it was a good chapter.  thank forposting the links.   maybe i'll get that book of i can.  thanks again for that.

jolly.. i did get a response from the lady i talked about.  she asked me some quetstions about stuff and i wroteback and now im waiting again for her response.  she said she thinks the hospital sounds like  a good idea as long as they  dont change all my meds around....which they usually do....because that can really messyou up, which it has in the past for me.  i dont even know what they can or will do to help me.  i just dont know.  thanks for asking me jolly. im closer in my mind to going to the hospital now. i feel like it might be a good decision...maybe just so i can just fall apart there instead of trying to fight so hard out here.  i dont knowhow much longer i can fight 

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

ok, i just heard back from that lady again.  she said she is very concerned with how bad and intense the suicidal and self injury urges are in me.  she said she doesn;t know what else could help but to g o  inpatient.  i'm ready to say that i willl go in, i just have the concern that the suicidal thoughts and even the self injury impulses are not constant.  there are times when i don't feel that way.  i know ive said thisbefore, but i just have this fear that i dont deserve the help unless im really bad off.  i always feel like i have to be as bad as possible to get help because i don't want them to think i feel sorry for myself or am overreacting.  those are things that stand in my way of asking for help time and time again.  i'm afraid they wont believe me, and then i would have taken this huge risk of asking for help and extending myself to someone and they wouldn't even take me seriously.  i know i've said these things befoee, but they are deep ways that i feel.  it is extrememly hard for me to ask for help.  and i always tend to pretend i'm ok......i don't know why i do that really.  it's hard being vunerable.  i feel like i'm not allowed to feel bad and express it.  its something thts hard for me to do in real life, thats why this place is such a relief for me, because I can be that way here.

anyway, im ready to say ill go in now but im not ready to go right now.  i dont know what i have to wait for, i just need to live with this decision for a little while.  im really scared and nervous about doing this.  it is taking sooo much effort to do this.  im scared at what is doing to happen.  how they will treat me, how i will act, what will happen.  i just want to disappear 

another thing.. the lady said she wants to visit me while I'm there.  i dont know how i feel about that but im afraid to tell her no.....so now im full of anxiety over that


----------



## Retired

Because you are under so much stress, while feeling depressed and thinking suicidal thoughts, making a decision can seem a burden, if not impossible as you are currently experiencing.  

The illness is impeding your ability to process logical thoughts, and even though your decision to go into hospital is sound and correct, you continue to struggle.

Everyone who has counseled you is advising the same thing..get yourself into the hospital.

This should now be the focus of your attention and you should be making arrangements to be admited now.

Disregard all the other competing thoughts, anxieties and internal conflicts, Greenstarz and make the calls necessary for admittance to hospital.  The doctors know what to do once you arrive.

Promise to keep yourself safe until you speak to the doctor after you have been admitted.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Hey greenstarz,

Awesome that you have someone to back you up in person.  Heck, I might even visit you at the hospital if I lived nearby, if you allowed it.  I would hate to be in a hospital all by myself.  You could always let her come and see you, and just see how things go.  You don't have to be scared to tell her when she comes that you may need to keep the visit very short.  

The other thing, greenstarz, is that you keep thinking you can only get help if you are suicidal "now" -- but you _have_ been suicidal _lots_ of times, and not a lot of time elapses between these thoughts.  So not only are you suicidal, you are thinking about it more than once a day.  If I was thinking about suicide more than once a day, wouldn't you tell me to go to the hospital?

You deserve whatever help you can get whenever you need it.  You don't have to wait and wait.  It's a victory if you do, because it's like you are battling yourself, and you will win when you get into that fortress of help.

If you are worried about your meds, can you find your psychiatrist's contact info and tell the people yourself at the hospital "Here is what I am on and the dosages."   If you don't tell them, they won't know and will probably just medicate you because they want to help you, but don't know what you're already on.  Their files may not be up to date, so maybe if they know what you are taking (do you have pill bottles and prescriptions you can bring in your purse for proof?) and have a contact who is your doctor they can keep you on the same meds.  You need someone to stick up for you and make sure they don't try different medication, right, so if you don't feel strong enough to put your foot down, either get that lady to help you (if she's from your group maybe she can get the group counselor to speak on your behalf or something?)...

I think you made the right decision, but you're just bogged down under all your thoughts and spinning your wheels.  I agree with Steve: you have to try to shrug off all the noise in your head to get to the important message: you need help!  You don't need to hold back anymore, greenstarz.  Git.


----------



## greenstarz

ok, i'll go to the hosptial.....tomorrow i'll go but i have to get some stuff readyto go.  if i don't then i know i'll be even more uncomfortable there then i am right now.  i feel a little relieved already thinking that im going to go, but i also feel nervous and scared.  but i have decided to go.  i can do it, i just have to force myself somehow.  im going to ask that lady if she can drive me there.  do you think that's too much of something to ask?  i don't know...im scared  but i can do it.  i hhope tonihgt goes ok and i don't feel like I have to injure.  i wont do it, if  it gets too bad i can always call the hospital.  i mihgt not call them tomottow and instead just go there.  i haven't decided yet.  i really don't likethe phone.  i just have to get some things together first.  and call my brother to see if he will stay with my cats and take care of everything.  i know i wont be in there long, but my cats need someone to take care of them.  i feel really sad right now   i don't know if i really want to go, but i'm going to go anyway because everyone is saying to go, in my real life and on here everyone is saying that (like steve pointed out)  i just have to do it.  i''m going to email that lady again now and hopefully hear back from her in the morning.  i'm pretty sure she'll say yes unless she is really busy.

when you put it like that, Jolly, i would tell you to go to the hospital if you had all those suicidal thoughts all the time.  Just because it isn't constnt doesn;'t mean they don't effect you.  that's what id tell you.  i think i will bring my meds with me like you said.  lots of time you dont even get to see the psychiatrist the firsst day youre there, so maybe they would be able to still give me what i'm currently prescribed if they have the bottles.  i dont know. it's worth a try.  lots of times, the hospital psychiatrists want to try new meds despite what you  say.  they usually dont consault your outside psychiatrist.  I guess I just have to try  what they say and if it doesnt work out, my outside psychiatrist will have to work it out.  and actually, when i had this concern before, the dr pointed out that the meds i was on were obviously not working that well otherwise i woulnt be in the hospital.  i guess that maeks a little sense if you think about it.

i'm sorry if i made you guys mad or frustrated.  i wish i could have not been so annoying with this and been able to make the decision right away.  but i feel now like i can go in and its not too much of a struggle inside myhead.  yes its still a conflict inside, but i am able to move beyond that right now.  and if i email the lady i talked about before now, she will see i want to go in, so that if i say no in the morning, she will still see that i agreed to it, and help me to actually get there.  i hope i make sense.  sorry everytone to be the way i am


----------



## Retired

> im going to ask that lady if she can drive me there...... do you think that's too much of something to ask?



Greenstarz,

By all means ask the lady if it is convenient for her to drive you, but on the other hand, be prepared in case the lady has another commitment and says she is unavailable. In other words, have a back up plan in mind in case the lady cannot drive you.  You may have to ask someone else, use public transportation or call a taxi.

Someone's unavailability should not be seen as rejection, but rather that they may have something else to do, which is why we should always have a back up plan in mind when asking someone for a favor.



> i'm sorry if i made you guys mad or frustrated



No need for any apology, because we all need support from time to time.  It was very courageous of you to reach out for help when you needed it, and it has been our pleasure to have helped you through your difficult journey.  Do keep us posted on your progress and feel free to continue using the Forum for support when you need it.

By expressing your concerns, you were able to hear differnt perspectives, from which you were able to make your final decision.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Yep, totally not annoyed.  

You go girl!  You're taking big steps!

Try keeping that perspective: if you were responsible for someone else (like your inner child) and that little girl inside wanted to end everything to stop the pain, wouldn't you comfort her and take her to the hospital to see what you could do to help her?   It's hard being the nice supportive parent to yourself sometimes when you lacked that when you were growing up, but you're doing great so far.

I'm with Steve on the back-up plan.  If that lady you were talking about isn't someone you know very well and she has to work or take care of someone besides herself she might _want _to help you but be unable to.  So if you do get a taxi, just stay in the back seat (I do that all the time) and bring some headphones and plug in and tune out, or if you take the bus bring a book to read, that way you don't have to focus on anyone or anything else. 

We're in your section cheering you on!  Maybe that lady can even take you this evening instead of tomorrow!


----------



## greenstarz

ok, im going today at 4 pm.  im really nervous now  dont know if its a good idea  butim going todo it.  just wanted to let everyone knowwhenim leaving. im going to try to be completely honest wiht them too.  maybe that will help things this time.  biut its just so scary to speak works to what my thinking is.


----------



## Daniel

BTW: Packing for the Hospital


----------



## Retired

> im going to try to be completely honest wiht them too



It's the only way you can expect to receive the treatment you need.  If you went into the hospital for a tummy ache, you wouldn't tell them you have a sore foot!

Our thoughts are with you for your recovery.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Oops,  I was just looking at the list Daniel provided, and it says not to actually bring your medication, just a list of what they are and the dosage.


----------



## Always Changing

I am really glad  that you made and were able to stick with your decision to go inpatient Greenstarz. 

 By this time I think you will have already gone to the hospital,  So I guess I will just have to wait until you return to say "well done you".  

Steve said it for me also when he posted this.   





> Our thoughts are with you for your recovery.



:hug:


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

Hi greenstarz! 

Just thinking of you a few times this week...  Hope you are doing okay.  When you get back let us know how things went.

Even if they didn't go great, we'd just be happy to know that at least you are alive!  8)


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean

*poke*

Hope you're okay... :star:


----------

