# Please help - Advice needed



## Cin (Jan 12, 2005)

Hi i am new to this board and im wondering if anyone can provide me with some advice to my situation..

Iam a 19 yr old univeristy student studying psychology in my first yr. Ive had depression for 3 yrs now and have been self harming for the same amount of time or maybe more. I live with my single mum and my little sister in a house where you can cut the tension with a knife. Mainly my tension, my tension of the broken down communication between me and my mother. To me, we have NEVER got on, i have always been afraid and frightened of her confident and proud personlality. With her "true" "say what you see" comments about my clumsiness and stupidity growing up i believe that there is something wrong with me. I went for counselling during my a-levels and slowly started to begin to see that i have a negative self concept and distorted reality of what i see of myself and about everything else. Unfortunately when the ice just began to break between me and my counsellor, i had to go to uni.

For years i saw university as my castle in the sky; and being one who tends to set high expectations for herself i aimed to go to a good university. However my depression and anxiety got the better of me and i went to the university i dreaded most. Each time i walk through those gates its a reminder of how bad ive done and how stupid i am. Many people say to me that i should be happy that im in a university at least, but im not.

I imagined that university would be the place that would take me away from my depression and underneath, my mother. Give me the independance i probably needed to gain confidence and finally get out of my black it. Unforunately, i am living at home 1hr 30mins journey each way to my university. I tried to leave and go live on campus there but the guilt sank in and i stayed despite my mother urging me on to go (so that she can shun me). During the term of september to christmas i spent all my time going out early in the morning and coming back late deliberately avoiding my mum's presence so that i dont cause an argument or annoy her in some way. I got worse with my suicidal ideations and anxiety and overdosed. she does not know till this day, that i went to hospital to get my blood checked. I know it would break her heart. 

Now it is the new year and i am thinking about moving out again, i told her/suggested it and her reply was to go, and that if i fall flat on my face she will not be there to pick up the pieces. As time went on she recently revaled her weak side.She was in debt. i am so blinded by all the things that we have , that i cant see it. She told me that our house is an investment for me, therefore i cant leave, or there is no point in leaving. I have tried to explain that i want it for myself, so that i can get better, but she doesnt understand. she thinks that if i just put my depression into a box it will go away.

I decide to stay again and offer to help her with her debt, she accepts (which is a very hard thing for her to do as she is an extremely proud person). But im still crying still wanting to get better, knowing that if i live in this environment of constant arguments i will not. On one side i see myself as being selfish, if i get up and leave her to struggle for ME. But on the other side, im tired. Im tired of the anxeity, the self harming, the hurt, the worthlesness, the self esteem, and just being plain afraid. of what i dont know.

I seem to think that moving out will change our relationship for the better because if the problem is me then surely me moving out and gaining independence and getting better will make me right again?

I am fed up of being that 8 yr old child always crying being scared and listening to everything her mother says and believing it because mum is always right. everything mum predicts comes true. I find it so shameful that i am still "behaving like a child" in what way i do not know. Also the thing that always has stuck with me is the idea of common sense. to this day, i get the comment "its common sense, you have no common sense" from my mother. And only in these few years i begin to think..what is common sense? What is this i lack in so much to make me bad child.


When it come to my mother i dont know which way to turn, jump, flinch. I dont know what to say, or what will be the right thing, and when i try it is always wrong. Like a human with the core parts of the brain carved out. only left with its functions. I used to be a hyperactive laughing child and now ive turned into this fragile adult crumbling and tearing at the seams with every stroke.

I am extremely sorry that ive gone on like this


----------



## ThatLady (Jan 12, 2005)

Welcome to the boards, Cin. Sounds like you've got quite a load to carry. It's hard enough to go to University without having to walk on eggshells at home.

You've thought about moving away from home while continuing your studies. How would you live? With whom would you live? Where would you live? Do you have a realistic plan for how you might do this? That's certainly something you have to think about.

The fact that your mom is in debt is NOT your fault, hon. I gather from what you say that you're making financial contributions while living at home. While that can be a good thing, it is not necessarily so if it's causing you undue misery. Sooner or later, the time is going to come when you step out into the world on your own. All parents face that time with their children, and we do not (or should not) expect our children to forego that step because we, the parents, are in debt. All children fly the nest when the time comes. That's a good thing, and one of which parents should be proud. It's a time to be happy for one's children in the beginning of their lives as adults.

Do you have a counsellor now, hon? It really sounds like you need one. Does your school offer any program of counselling that might help you work your way through the difficulties you're facing? If you're feeling depressed, and if you're harming yourself, you really need therapy and, possibly, medications. That's the most important issue to address at this point.

Hugs, hon. Wish I could give them personally, as you really sound like you need a big hug.


----------



## Cin (Jan 12, 2005)

Thank you for the kind welcome, and thank you for taking you time to read such a long essay  
Iam in councelling with my university and am on the waiting list for the psychologist appoinment. Last year i went on paxil/seroxat for about 6months and due to past events i was going over with my councellor at the time during exam time, i did not think it worked as effectively as it could have.
This morning i went back to my doctor and after refusing for so long, ive agreed to take medication again, so now ive have started off with 10mg of celexa/citalopram and am going to see what happens from there.

I guess it is all a matter of time, but my patience with myself is very thin.

Thank you for the hugs, much appreciated 
cin xxx


----------



## cm (Jan 12, 2005)

Hi cin,
I hope your new medication will soon make you feel better. I know how hard it is during this time for you. My medication did help me to be more calm (less worn out) and think more clearly, so enabled me to start making better choices for myself.  It's really good that you've got a counsellor there.  That also helped me during my first years at university.   Also, I think you'll have more and more options for yourself and where you want to live with each year past the teen years.  That's what I found anyway.  I was able to get a student loan and part time job at the uni and then and move out on my own.  Welcome to this forum.


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Jan 12, 2005)

Hi, Cin.

Have you ever wondered why your mother has this apparent need to undermine you and keep you dependent on her?


----------



## Lana (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi Cin and welcome.  I got unlimited supply of hugs if and when you need them.


----------



## Cin (Jan 13, 2005)

Hey everyone, thank you for your replies and welcomes, much appreciate it, i feel like a proper member already!  

Cm - i hope this medication works for me too, you are right about about my options being open to me, throughout my teens ive thought about moving out, but its only now im seriosuly considering; the costs, where i will live , how i will e.t.c and although i can say iam fully prepared to move, iam not fully prepared for idea that i will loose my mum complety. Freinds say that she will talk to you when she comes round, but my thoughts are adament. i believe in what she says, maybe sometimes abit too much..

David - I have not looked at it from that angle before, and thinking about it now, i dont know, it maybe fear or it may be love deep down. Or it may be that she is trying to get me to change my ways by the best way she knows how. She constantly talks about me not being indepedant and not being able to look after myself, so i am confused about how she wants me to be independant even though she probably points it out all the time.
From my angle, the problem is me, she is saying what she sees or esle she wouldnt be saying it. I dont know. i, according to my mum  dont know myself or her, refuse advice, refuse to change my faults, and probably will never change because simply i dont listen or motivate myself. I accept this because i dont know anything else to be honest, despite what others tell me. Heh. I guess ive picked up the stubborn gene.

Lana - Thank you for the offer of unlimited hugs!  Same goes for you


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Jan 13, 2005)

Cin said:
			
		

> I have not looked at it from that angle before, and thinking about it now, i dont know, it maybe fear or it may be love deep down. Or it may be that she is trying to get me to change my ways by the best way she knows how. She constantly talks about me not being indepedant and not being able to look after myself, so i am confused about how she wants me to be independant even though she probably points it out all the time.


What I am suggesting is that perhaps, whatever she *says*, it may be that she needs you to be dependent and fears you becoming independent.



> From my angle, the problem is me, she is saying what she sees or else she wouldnt be saying it.


Not true. In domestic abuse, for example, a common theme the abuser will use is "you are damaged -- no one else would put up with you the way I do". But of course that doesn't make it true at all.



> I dont know. i, according to my mum dont know myself or her, refuse advice, refuse to change my faults, and probably will never change because simply i dont listen or motivate myself. I accept this because i dont know anything else to be honest, despite what others tell me. Heh. I guess ive picked up the stubborn gene.


Or maybe deep down there is a part of you that knows she is wrong?


----------



## ThatLady (Jan 14, 2005)

In my experience, sometimes parents confuse love with ownership. We don't own our children. They're just on loan to us until they're old enough to take on, and live, their own lives. That's an important thing to remember, but it's sometimes difficult. It's hard not to want to hold on when it's time to let go.

Your mum encourages you to be independent, yet makes it very difficult for you to do so by trying to keep you at home, with her. I think you can see that as clearly as we see it. Problem is, mum isn't seeing it. 

There was a time when my mother and I had to stay apart for awhile. She has always been a controlling person, and I knew I had to break free. Since she wouldn't release the reins on her own, I had to break them. It was a very difficult time for both of us but, in time, we were able to come to a better understanding of who we each were, and to respect one another as individuals. Now, she lives here with me and we get along just fine.

If you're prepared to move out on your own, you need to begin to make solid plans to get on with your life. Your mother may have some problems adjusting, but she'll get along. She must live her life, and you must live yours. Those parts of your lives that you can share happily, you will. )


----------



## Cin (Jan 14, 2005)

David - Deep down, i have always generally thoguht that iam in the wrong; however, yes,  somewhere inside of me thinks she is wrong in what she says, or beleives to be true. But, she is my mum i would hate to think that she is wrong in anyway. It could be true, that her statements and actions towards me are wrong. but i donk know what to believe. When she says something to me, it is because i have actually done something, whther its right in my opnion doesnt intrest me, its making it correct for her, so that she doesnt have to get angry or be in distress.

About my independance, she has recently told me that she means basically being confident, having the time for myself and the motivation to do things for myself. I have to be able to do this before i can move out. Her fears for me is that iam not independant enough and confident enough to move out. However yes she does have this need for me to stay which she hides completly flawlessly, so good i cant even see it. I just go on a gut feeling.

It is true that my mum can't see that me being able to be independant means moving out, and as my college councellor one said; you cannot change you're mum. Therefore you are right ThatLady, that i should break the reins. But i feel i have to help, but at the same time something tells me, if i dont get better and gain confidence; i will remain and so will our relationship. ending up nowhere but in heartbreak.

Thank you for your replies and time taken to respond and read to my posts, addressing this topic is extremly important to me, and i apprecite your advice.
Thank you
cin x


----------



## ThatLady (Jan 14, 2005)

I don't think your mum's statements and actions are wrong, necessarily. I do, however, think they are somewhat misguided in some areas. Nobody is perfect, and we all see some things in a distorted way, at times.

You cannot make it your life's work to see that your mother is never disappointed, or angry, or distressed. That's taking on an impossible task. It's doomed to failure, as I'm sure you can see. Everyone must cope with disappointments, distress, and things that make us angry. It's part of life and living it.

Developing independence requires one to experience independent living. It can't be done in the abstract, and it certainly can't be done while someone else is doing things for you that you should be learning to do yourself. That's why most of us learn independence by getting out there and living it. Will we make mistakes? Sure we will, but that's how we learn. From that learning comes the confidence of which your mum speaks. It cannot be gained without the chance to try one's wings.


----------



## Cin (Jan 15, 2005)

You' re right, i cant live my life if everytime im trying to please mum. I walk on eggshells all the time, sometimes for no reason. The words that she uses for me are most probably what any mother would say to a daughter when angry. Its something i have to remember. That im not the only one, no matter how much she makes me feel like iam. There are others worse off and better than me. Its just the way i interpret her, its all wrong and i think i need to start working on that.

I will definalty think about moving out again, in more detail.

Thank you for you replying to my message, i really apprecite your advice,
Cin xxxxxx


----------



## Jon (Jan 17, 2005)

First of all, welcome to the board Cin.  I see that you are getting some great advice already, I hope that it helps.

I am 32 and still don't have my degree.  I am back in school now trying to finish it up finally.  Don't think that you aren't smart enough, brave enough, etc. Sometimes life throws us curve balls and we end up having to accept something less than we desire.  It is what we do with those curve balls that determines how strong we are.  You didn't get into the university you wanted, but you are going to school still.  Do your best where you are & you will find that the school itself isn't the important thing - the learning is.

As for your mother.  I found that my mom feared what would become of me because of her weaknesses.  When she says that you are not independent enough to live on your own, it may be her own fears being projected onto you.  As ThatLady already mentioned, it is not really possible to learn to be independent if you don't live independently.  Once you cut that cord and start living on your own, it will build confidence in you and possibly help your mother to realize that she really has raised you well enough to take care of yourself.  It could be a confidence booster for her as well.


----------



## Cin (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Jon iam very sorry for not replying back sooner, thank you for your advice and encouragement, i guess im just in another rut right now.

Iam helping pay the mortagae for this house so i feel i can't leave, and that im trapped. when in reality i can just get up and go, im not being psychially held down. But i feel i can't leave mmy mum in so much trouble. Just a few days ago we were at the bank speaking with an advisor and i heard what she truely thought of all this debt stuff. she said that i got ill so she became depressed and overlooked things and mismanged her money. I know full well that she is a very organised person, so to hear that she fell off the tracks because of me makes me feel even worse. Its probably not entirely true, but im sure my "illness" contributed.
Iam sorry. Im starting to babble again - not having a good day.
I hope you all are fine, thanks again for your help i really do respect you guys.
cin xxxxxx


----------



## Daniel (Jan 27, 2005)

When I had  financial lows, I would just tell myself that no one is going to starve.


----------



## Jon (Jan 27, 2005)

Well I have to praise you in one way.  You are taking on a lot of responsibility.  Your mother should never use you as an excuse.  

Never worry about "bablling" here.  That is what these forums are for.

Does your mum work?  If I were you, I would determine a date for when you will be moving out, maybe a few months or a year, you would have to decide.  Then sit your mum down and tell her that you are moving out on that date and help prepare a plan for her to be able to handle it.

Then do it.

Always keep in touch and show her that you love her, but make it clear that you have grown up and you feel that she is holding you back.  That may hurt, but it may be what she needs to hear.  

Whatever you do, good luck.  We are always here if you need to chat.


----------

