# Could it be the end?



## Kathleen

I am having such a hard time in life the last while.  I NEED help.  I know I need help.  I have run into a problem though.  My doctor is 9 hours away and I have been trying to call her for a med change for the last 2 months, but since I moved she doesn't want to help me anymore.  She will not return any of my calls.  I have a CMHA worker that I have seen 3 times, but I absolutely HATE her and they won't give me a different one.  

I need help so bad or I am going to end up 6 feet in the ground.  I was always told to reach out when I need help, but what if you have nobody to reach for?  What if you have stretched out your arm to everyone around you, but nobody is there?  I am in tears right now because there is only so much reaching I can do.  

What is one to do when there is no available doctors?  When you get only a choice of one counsellor and you can't even talk to her?  When you know if you don't get help you will end up dead, but when you reach out nobody is there?  I can't do this anymore.  What do you do?


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## Andy

Sorry Kathleen. Are you the person who is living way up north? Sorry if that's not you. 
There is no way you can get a new doctor? A medical doctor even? If you need a med change then that is pretty important. Why hasn't your worker been assisting you in helping to find a new doctor? Is it an ILS worker? Sorry for the questions. 
Are they refusing to get you a new worker because they are short staffed? I don't see how you can work with someone you do not like and are not comfortable with, that's just stupid. 
More questions sorry. lol Do you have any friends or family around you that you can reach out to in the mean time, even if they aren't someone you would normally? 
I honestly don't know what you can do, I'm sure we can come up with some ideas.


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## Kathleen

I am the person who moved up north.  There is a major shortage of doctors here and I was told it would be impossible to get one.  All my family is back south, and I can't talk to them anyways.  My mom has been in the hospital for over 2 months and is extremely suicidal.  They are doing the ECT treatments on her, but nothing is working.  My family never wants to know how I am doing.  They could care less.  They have enough on their plates to deal with anyways with my mom.  I am just so lost and scared.


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## Andy

That's quite the tough spot your in then. Are there any communities around that may be a long drive but not to bad, that have any doctors? I know around here after a certain spot North, it's all small towns and hamlets etc. but maybe not in your case? 
I can relate with your mom, my mom is mentally ill as well and spent time in and out of hospital when I was growing up. I'm sorry your family hasn't asked, I'm sure they care, maybe just to overwhelmed with what is going on with your mom that they are focused only on that. Maybe there will be some improvement as they do more treatments on her. I wish her well anyways.
I'm assuming you moved up there for work or some opportunity, is there anyway you could get say 4 days off in a row a month to drive back and deal with doctors appointments, just make all appointments for that time. I can't think of to many other options. Have you asked CMHA if they can come up with ideas, they can't possibly just leave people hanging without a doctor if they need medication. Maybe they could get your foot in the door somewhere somehow?


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## David Baxter PhD

*College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario*



> Brutus, Jean-Claude
> Temiskaming Health Unit
> 31 Station Road North
> Box 98
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 1H9
> Phone: (705) 567-9355
> 
> Clarke, Leigh Langstroth
> Kirkland Lake Medical Center
> 2 Water Lane
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3M6
> Phone: (705) 567-2224
> 
> Datta, Suvomoy
> 145 Government Road East
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3P4
> 
> Denton, Richard Gordon
> 2 Water Lane
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3M6
> Phone: (705) 567-2224
> 
> Durocher, William Paul
> Kirkland and District Hospital
> 145 Government Road East
> P O Bag 3000
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3P4
> Phone: (705) 567-5251
> 
> Ek, Nathan Richard
> 2 Water Lane
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3M6
> Phone: (705) 567-2224
> 
> Guilfoyle, Francis John -additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake, Sioux Lookout*
> Box 35
> 90 Queen Street
> Sioux Lookout ON P8T 1A1
> Phone: (604) 898-1740
> 
> Hacking, Frederick Jack -additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake*
> Kenogami Clinic
> PO Box 528
> R R 2
> Site 4
> Swastika ON P0K 1T0
> Phone: (705) 642-3317
> 
> Isenberg, Joel Harold -additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake*
> Suite D
> 80 Mountjoy North
> Timmins ON P4N 4V7
> Phone: (705) 264-2174
> 
> Jordan, Edward Henry
> 2 Water Lane
> Box 10
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3M6
> Phone: (705) 567-9276
> 
> Kitty, Darlene Janet -additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake*
> Timmins and District Hospital
> 700 Ross Avenue East
> Timmins ON P4N 8P2
> Phone: (705) 267-2131
> 
> Kyritsis, Dimitrios
> 22 Water street
> po-box 40
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3M6
> Phone: (705) 567-1414
> 
> Lemire, Marie Louise Celine - additional practice locations in: *Belleville, Kirkland Lake*
> Room 1009 Etherington Hall
> Queen's University
> 94 Stuart Street
> Kingston ON K7L 3N6
> Phone: (613) 533-6000 Ext. 33417
> 
> McAlister, Neil Harding - additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake, Pickering*
> Unit 6
> 1916 Dundas Street East
> Whitby ON L1N 2L6
> Phone: (905) 434-1997
> 
> McGee, Nancy - additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake*
> 725 6E Rue
> Val D'or QC J9P 3Y1
> Phone: (819) 825-5858
> 
> Meloff, Keith Lyon - additional practice locations in: *Cochrane, Kapuskasing, Kirkland Lake, Timmins, Toronto*
> 36 Burton Road
> Toronto ON M5P 1V2
> Phone: (416) 482-4882
> 
> Richard, Hugues Joseph - additional practice locations in: *Chapleau, Kirkland Lake, Timmins*
> 11 Royal Field Crescent
> Nepean ON K2J 4G1
> Phone: (613) 823-4748
> Fax: (613) 823-6559
> 
> Rittenberg, Kevin Mark - additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake*
> Unit 3
> 7700 Bathurst Street
> Thornhill ON L4J 7Y3
> Phone: (905) 660-9760
> 
> Rumball, William James Stuart
> 145 Government Road East
> Box 460
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3J1
> Phone: (705) 568-2232
> 
> Sales, Karl Hugues - additional practice locations in: *New Liskeard*
> Kirkland and District Hospital
> 145 Government Road East
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3P4
> Phone: (705) 567-5251
> 
> Shapiro, Stanley Alan - additional practice locations in: *Elliot Lake, Kirkland Lake, Sturgeon Falls*
> Applegrove Medical Clinic
> 135 Applegrove Street
> Sudbury ON P3C 1N2
> Phone: (705) 673-3111
> 
> Spiller, Mark Arthur - additional practice locations in: *Kirkland Lake, Matachewan*
> Kirkland And District Hospital
> 145 Government Road East
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3P4
> Phone: (705) 567-5251
> 
> Visbal Moreno, Antonio Luis
> Suite 313
> 145 Government Road East
> Kirkland Lake ON P2N 3P4
> Phone: (705) 568-2232


 

See also *Physicians Kirkland Lake Ontario - Google Search*


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## Cat Dancer

I have emailed the samaritans here when I have felt really helpless:

Email

They try to get back to you within 12 hours. It's not necessarily suicide prevention, just someone to vent to or talk to who can listen.


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## Kathleen

Thanks guys.  Can you believe that I phoned every one of those doctors today and nobody is accepting any patients?  4 of the doctors were on holidays and 3 are not in the office after noon on Wednesdays.  Nobody can give me a freakin' break.  It is like a greater power wants me to just give up.  It just isn't worth the trouble any more.  The pain is eating away at my insides.  The emptiness inside me is unbearable.  Last night I started cutting again.  I haven't cut in 2.5 years.  I am a failure!


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## David Baxter PhD

That's discouraging.

Try thiis, Kathleen:

Health Care Connect - Public Information - MOHLTC


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## Kathleen

It is discouraging, isn't it?  I signed up with health care connect back in May.  I have an assigned worker with CCAC who I also called today.  She said she has had people in this area wait years before any doctor came available.  It is so hard to keep trying when you have been let down so many times.  Thank you for all your help and suggestions.  Unfortunately I don't think there is an easy solution to my problems.


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## David Baxter PhD

Can the worker at least hook you up with someone to manage your prescriptions? or a nurse practitioner or something?


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## Kathleen

I think I would have to go sit at the hospital for hours to talk to any sort of doctor.


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## David Baxter PhD

Perhaps. But sometimes you can choose your time to go to minimize the wait.

One small town near Ottawa has a website wherer you can check to see the wait time.


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## Kathleen

Thank you.  You have been more help to me than anyone else has been.  
I just want the pain and emptiness to go away.  It is so hard to breath.  It feels like my chest is collapsing.  I don't want to die, but I don't know how much longer I can go through this.  I am scared that if I go to the hospital they will keep me.  They can't.  I will lose my job.  If I lose my job I will lose my apartment and my car and all my pets.  I have to start school soon.  I would rather lose everything to death than to be alive and have everything taken from me.  Everyone is always taking from me.  I can't let that happen.  I am so lost.  I just don't know anymore.  I just don't know...


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## David Baxter PhD

Is school the reason you went up north? If so, it occurs to me that many colleges and universities have their own health care services for their students. You could look into that.

Sometimes, universities also offer services to the general public...


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## Kathleen

Yeah, college.  I don't know if I can wait long enough to find out.  Maybe if I can get through tonight I will try the health unit tomorrow.  I am picking at my last straws.  I just don't know how I will react if I reach out the the health unit and get turned down again.  It makes me feel 100 times worse every time I ask for help and am turned down.  I can only do it so many times.  It is so hard to have hopes and have them disappear in a matter or seconds.


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## David Baxter PhD

I know, but when you are in the black tunnel the fastest way back to the sunlight is straight ahead.

Or as Winston Churchill said, "When you're going through hell, keep going".


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## Retired

Kathleen,



> I don't want to die, but I don't know how much longer I can go through this


 
Continue to focus on your desire to live, and the reasons you want to live, such as your education, and family. In the meantime, continue your contact with us here on Psychlinks for support during this difficult time.

Try the Primacy Site to see if there might be one of their affiliated clinics in your area. I recently needed a new doctor and found one in a Primacy Clinic.

If there happens to be a Loblaws Superstore near you, I believe they usually have a Primacy Clinic inside their stores.

You mentioned the Emergency Room of your local hospital as being a possible resource, and that might be your best bet until you find something else. Agreed you may have to wait, but if you need prescription renewals or urgent care, emergency rooms cannot turn you away.

As has been said, choose your time to go.

You could go over to the clinic and ask the person at the reception desk when is it usually least busy. It may be at unusual hours of the day or night, but under the circumstances, at least there might be a chance you will be seen by someone.

You sound like a brave person, and we would like to provide as much support as we can, so use us as your sounding board and hopefully together we can figure out a way to get you through this difficult time.


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## Kathleen

Thanks guys.  I don't know what I would have done last night if it wasn't for you.  I have never really had anyone take time to listen and talk to me.  It really means a lot.  I am going to call the health unit.  I am so scared that they are going to turn me away too.  I have been putting it off all morning.  I don't want to call, because this is the last hope I have.  I don't want to lose that last bit of hope.  If they say they can't do anything, I am all out of options.  Then what's next?  I will have to live with the pain, which I know I can't do alone.


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## David Baxter PhD

> If they say they can't do anything, I am all out of options.


 
Not necessarily. There are always other options. Sometimes it just takes a while to think of them.


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## Kathleen

I called the health unit. Nobody answered so I left a message.  I wish I could think like you do.  It is so hard to think positive when everything around is negative.  

I wish my doctors didn't abandon me when I moved.  I had my psychiatrist for 8 years and my family doctor for 11.  How can they just drop you as a patient when you move?  How can they not care at all?  I keep thinking about what I am going to write in my suicide note.  If I can't pull out of this I want them to know that if they had been there it might not have happened.  It kind of gives me a bit of pleasure when I think about it.  I know how wrong that is, but I would want them to feel like it is their fault.  Thay have made me suffer enough, they should have to go through something.  It just isn't fair.  I never did anything wrong to anyone and this is what I get.


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## David Baxter PhD

Kathleen said:


> I called the health unit. Nobody answered so I left a message. I wish I could think like you do. It is so hard to think positive when everything around is negative.


 
Yes it is. Iit takes effort and practice. But here you have several minds brainstorming solutions instead of just one.



Kathleen said:


> I wish my doctors didn't abandon me when I moved. I had my psychiatrist for 8 years and my family doctor for 11. How can they just drop you as a patient when you move? How can they not care at all? I keep thinking about what I am going to write in my suicide note. If I can't pull out of this I want them to know that if they had been there it might not have happened. It kind of gives me a bit of pleasure when I think about it. I know how wrong that is, but I would want them to feel like it is their fault. Thay have made me suffer enough, they should have to go through something. It just isn't fair. I never did anything wrong to anyone and this is what I get.



The anger/resentment you feel is understandable but you are not helping yourself at all by thinking about suicide notes. Everything you are going through right now is temporary and driven by anxiety and uncertainty. That old saying about suicide - a permanent solution to a temporary problem - applies 100% to your situation. There is a solution for you that does not involve ending your life. It just may take us some time and creative problem-solving to find it.


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## Kathleen

Thank you.  I am just so scared.  I don't know what to do anymore.


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## David Baxter PhD

I know. New town. Far away from everyone you know. About to start a new chapter in your life. I'm sure you feel like you're facing this all alone and that can be scary at any age.

However, you do still have people back in your former community, I expect, and you are gradually creating a new social and support network in your new community and here. No doubt this will accelerate when you start your college program in another 10 days or so.

What are you taking?


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## Kathleen

I will be taking veterinary sciences.


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## David Baxter PhD

Oh, excellent. That should be very interesting and challenging.


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## Retired

> How can they just drop you as a patient when you move?



Kathleen,

How far away from the place where you were receiving care from a psychiatrist and family doctor?  Have they specificaly said they would not see you any more, even if you returned to that place?

What are the chances you could travel back to the place where you were being seen by your psychiatrist and family doctor for medical care?

I agree that setting up a new medical support network when moving to a new community can be challenging, and will require some resourcefulness on your part.  You will need to continue calling, following up and asking each place you call if they have a waiting list policy, and can you get on that waiting list.

Is there a teaching hospital within a distance that you can travel?  Are there any walk-in clinics?  What about clinics staffed by physicians who travel from other (sometimes distant) medical centers?


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## Kathleen

I moved 9 hours away from where all my supports were.  There is only one clinic within 3 hours of here and it is a family health team clinic.  Only peaople who are already a patient of one of the doctors can go.  They will not see anyone else.  There are doctors that come here from the south, but they are only to fill in at the clinic and cannot see anyone who isn't already a patient.  It is such b/s.  Clinics should be for people without family doctors, not ONLY for people who have a doctor.  The Canadian health care system really sucks.


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## Retired

Kathleen,

Have you tried communicating with the local office of the Canadian Mental Health Association:

Cochrane Timiskmaming Branch/Kirkland Lake Office 
5 Kirkland Street East 
Kirkland Lake, ON P2N 1N9  
Phone: 705 - 567 9596 
Fax: 705 - 567 5211 
cmhatmsk@cmhact.ca


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## Kathleen

I have a CMHA worker, but I hate her and can't talk to her.  She doesn't believe in talking things out, she only believes in doing things (art, exercise ect.) to take your mind off your problems.  The Health unit called back and I am done.  I can't do this anymore.  I am so depressed right now.  I just want to curl up in a ball in the corner and die.  My counsellor froom back home called me today too and basically told me I was screwed.  I just can't do this anymore.  I wish I had someone to call and talk to, but I don't.  There isn't even a crisis line in our area.  I called the closest line (5 hours away) and they even refused to talk to me because I am not in "their district."  I can't do this.  I just can't.


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## forgetmenot

crisis lines are for everyone doesn't matter what location you are in.  Did you ask this person for a number you can call when in crisis as you need help. Keep talking here okay venting 
You have a doctor at home still a GP that can help you with your medication.   I also believe some universities have a doctor connected with the school so when you start make an appt right away to see such doctor or health nurse in the school okay    Hang on school will start soon there will be councillors there to help you as well


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## Kathleen

I have no doctor at home anymore.  The school has counsellors, but no doctors or nurses.  It is a very small school.  I am scared if I call a different crisis line they might send the cops out for me if I am honest with them.  I am a mess right now.  I did call the CMHA again and left a message with the intake worker.  I told her I really cannot talk to the worker I have and really would benefit from a different one, but I doubt she will do anything.  As I recall, her and I had this conversation before.  What I really need is someone to manage my meds.  The ones I am on have NO repeats (not like they work anyways) and they are done in 2 days.


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## forgetmenot

CMHA has a pdoc working for them for people like yourself with no pdoc to go to.  The pdoc there can reorder your meds for you  even if you and her don't seem to get along  It is up to her to help you in these situations if you allow her too.  Again go into the emergency room with your med bottles and tell them you need repeats and have no doctor now since you move there  tell them how unstable you are.  The oncall  pdoc will reorder meds for you  as well.    So if the police come and take you to hospital you will get the care you need there call crisis line and get help you need now.  Don't wait until your brain is not functioning okay do it now


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## Retired

Kathleen,

Right now you need to set some priorities.

The first is to work on getting repeats for your medications.  As has been said, the only resource available at this moment is your local Emergency Room at the hospital.  You need to go there, and wait, even though it may take a long time.  By doing so, you will be seen eventually, allowing you to explain your situation to the doctor on duty, and ask for your prescription renewals.

You might also ask your pharmacist if s/he can get you in contact with a doctor who can help.

Second, despite your differences with the CMHA worker, you need to maintain the one resource you seem to have in your new community.  I understand you may not agree with this person entirely, but until you can establish yourself, and find someone new, you would be doing yourself a disservice to sabotage the one resource you already have.

We know there are shortcomings in the medical system, and we all have to figure out ways to work within the system we have.  It's not ideal but it is what we have right now.

Do what you have to do to get your prescriptions renewed, continuw with the CMHA worker and at your school make contacts with the counselors they have available.  

Call the crisis line for support locally; crisis lines are not in the habit of sending police out after callers unless there is evidence of an imminent crime being committed.

Focus on your priorities, taking one at a time and do not think about the next one until the first one is accomplished.


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## Kathleen

Nobody ever told me that CMHA has a doctor that works for them.  I do need to call someone, and I know it.  I did call once tonight and they told me I wasn't in "their district".  I think I brought this up already though.   

You are right.  I have to set priorities.  I really appreciate you putting all that out there.  It is so hard for me to think or focus on anything right now.  I so desperately want to get out of this hole I am in.  I really can't stand this feeling of emptiness and pain inside of me.  It is so draining.  I am going to call my worker in the morning and ask if they have a doctor I can see, and if not I guess I will have to go sit at the ER.  I think I am going to go take a few sleeping pills and just go to bed.  At least there is no pain when I am asleep.


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## Retired

Kathleen,

In what area of Ontario are you actually located? We've seen references to Kirkland Lake, but it isn't clear to me where you are. Perhaps by knowing that information, we can search out further resources in an attempt to point you in a direction.

If you feel you don't want to disclose that information in open Forum, feel free to send me a Private Message.

Have you spoken to your pharmacist for some suggestions? Pharmacists are the ones who know the comings and goings of doctors in a community and can sometimes be helpful resources to find a new doctor.


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## Retired

Kathleen

I telephoned:

Temiskaming Hospital
Well Women Clinic
Shephardson Road
New Liskeard ON  P0J 1K0 
Phone: (705) 647-8121    

this morning, and they confirmed that if you came to the Emergency Department today, you would be seen by a doctor who would review your prescriptions.  They recommended the best time to be seen is early in the morning ar about 7:00 am when the waiting time is usually shortest. However, if you see this today, Friday Aug 27, the receptionist said they were not busy and you could be seen with minimal wait.

They did not recommend coming after midnight for a prescription renewal, because the doctors are asleep and are wakened only for life threatening emergences, so early morning is best.

Hope this helps with your priority #1, which is to get your prescription repeats updated.


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## Retired

I am told the following crisis line number services the area in which you live Kathleen:

*(888) 665-8888*


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## Kathleen

Thank you so much Steve.  I never had anyone try to help me as much as you have, and I don't even know you.  You have no idea how much that means to me.  

I called CMHA and talked to the intake worker who set me up with the other worker.  I explained my situation to her and she made an appointment with me today.  (I can open up to her)  She suggested we go up to the hospital to get some meds sorted out.  She came with me because she said if I had an advocate with me I wouldn't need to wait in the waiting room and the doctors would listen more.  She helped me talk to the doctor and he wanted to admit me.  Luckily I talked my way out of that.  He put me on a new med, but it is bubble packs and I have to go every week to get a refill.  Not too happy about that.  At least I am still at home.  It was a really close call.

I will try that number you gave me.  Thank you ssooo ssooo much!  This could be what ends up saving my life.


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## David Baxter PhD

That's progress for sure, Kathleen. Well done.


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## Retired

Thank you Kathleen, for your kind words.  I am so happy to hear about the way you have taken charge of your situation and have made progress.

As David mentioned a while back, having a number of people brainstorming often helps to find a solution that might work.

The fact that you will be returning to refill your medications may have a hidden advantage, by making you more familiar with local health care providers, and with time as you establish a rapport with them, it might be easier for you to access their services.

When I spoke to the nice lady at the reception desk at the hospital earlier, she suggested that although the local doctors may not have an open door to all new patients, that sometimes, by repeated calls to the doctors receptionist, you may get a foot in the door.   May I suggest that in doctors' offices, the receptionist carries a lot of weight, and the attitude of the caller has a lot of influence on whether you get in the door or not.  A lot of politeness and compassion when speaking to one of these hard working (usually) women works better than anything.  You know the old saying about _getting more with honey than with vinegar_.

There are many factors that determine when and if a doctor opens up the practice to accept new patients, so by letting a receptionist / secretary /nurse in the office know you would like to become a new patient can put you on a waiting list.  

Your persistence and determination will pay off with time.

It sounds like it was indeed a good day for you today, Kathleen.  Here's wishing you many more.

Do keep us posted on your progress.


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## Kathleen

The CMHA intake worker is going to take me on for now.  I am glad about that because I like her and can talk to her.  She said she is going to set me up with their psychiatrist when he gets back.  He takes the summers off and wont be back until mid September.  

The one thing that the doc at the hospital wouldn't write me a refill for (not too sure why..) is my ativan and I could really use it right now to calm down a bit.  I feel really unsafe right now.  I called the crisis number you gave me, but I am scared to be honest with them.  I know what happens when you tell someonethat you are feeling unsefe.  Part of me thinks maybe I should be in the hospital for a couple of days until I can start thinking more clearly, but the other part of me knows I can't because I will lose my job.  If I lost my job I would lose my apartment, my car, my pets...pretty much everything.  I hate being trapped.  I just want out.


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## Retired

This might be the opportunity to rely on the CMHA intake worker for support.



> I should be in the hospital for a couple of days until I can start thinking more clearly, but the other part of me knows I can't because I will lose my job.



Are you saying that you emploer would terminate you if you needed medical care?  What if you needed emergency surgery or if you had an infection that needed hospitalization, would you lose your job?



> The one thing that the doc at the hospital wouldn't write me a refill for (not too sure why..) is my ativan



Sometimes you need to explain to the doctor why you need a medication such as this, because without having a full medical history, some doctors are apprehensive about renewing prescriptions for minor tranquilizers.

You might want to go back to the Emergency dept tomorrow morning, and tell the doctor on duty you have ben using Ativan for relief of your anxiety for some time and would like a supply until you can be seen by the psychiatrist in mid September.


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## Kathleen

I called the crisis line back because I am scared, but it was a differnet lady and this one sounded mean so I hung up.  I wish I could talk to the lady I talked to first because she didn't sound angry.  The thoughts in my head are so fast and loud.


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## Retired

Sometimes the way people speak on the telephone is deceiving and because we don't see their facial expressions, it can be difficult to accurately interpret their disposition.

That being said,  it would be surprising if a person answering a crisis line would be angry at you.  They don;t know you, so they have no reason to be angry with you.

I have met people who work on crisis lines, and every one does that kind of work because they like people and want to help people.

I would persuade you to give it another try, giving the person who answers the benefit of the doubt, knowing they are probably volunteers and are eager to help.   Chances are they have received training for doing that kind of work, and might ask you some specific questions to gain an understanding of your situation.   Your truthful responses will provide them with the information they need to point you in the right direction.

Try again, and see how it goes, Kathleen


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## Kathleen

My boss is going to kill me.  I put up the "be back in 15 minutes" sign to make that phone call, and wouldn't you know it...she pulls it.  She is seriously going to kill me.  I cannot deal with this **** right now.  I am so scared for what she is going to say to me when she comes up here.  I just want to crawl into a hole and die.


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## David Baxter PhD

All you need to say is that you're not feeling well the past few days and you're trying to make an appointment with a doctor.


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## forgetmenot

Hey hope you are okay what can she do really just tell her you were not feeling well needed time to just calm down a bit.  I hope she wasn't to abrupt with you.  I do think you need to go back to emergency and get at least a few ativan to help you as withdrawal from this medication is not good either it should not be stopped quickly if you have been on it awhile.  Talk to emerg doctor okay explain you need it to get you through your work day and have been on it awhile    Let us know how you are okay just worried about you.


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## Kathleen

I ended up asking the boss if she could "come in for the rest of the night" and she agreed... This was at 8:30pm...we close at 10:30pm... I told her I just need to go for a ong walk to clear my head.  I called the crisis line and they sent the cops out for me.  I went with them to the hospital.  I was only there until 11:00pm, at which time I had talked out my problems, got a prescriotion for a different drug and went back home. 
Apparently my phone had died and my boss/landlord totally took everything out on me.  She was saying how she thought I was responsible and I just proved to her how much of a chilld I am...Her exact words: "You are probably so depressed because your apartment is disgusting and messy and dirty from the dogs.  What are you going to do, turn into your mother and go and hang yourself tonight?"  The only mess in my apartment is some dog hair on the carpet (duh I have dogs) and their toys.  My stuff is all neat and tidy.  Then she said my apartment smells like dog ****.  I have never once seen my dogs pee on the floor.  Not once.  Anyways I told her I am moving out.


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## David Baxter PhD

Well, that was charming, wasn't it? (Your boss I mean.)


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## Kathleen

I can't believe her.  AND...she I found out she isn't even paying me enough.  She is paying me student wage, which I thought meant it was for students, but it is for people under the age of 18 who are working less than 25 hours while in school.  (I'm 23)  So I have been missing out on 65 cents/hour since I have been working here.  AND I was told she can't force anyone to work over 48/week unless she pays overtime.  I have been working 80 hours a week for STUDENT wage.  I have been taking advantage of huge.  AND she has the guts to tell me that I am irresponsible!!  I have been running HER business for HER since I started.  She onlly works like 8 hours/WEEK!  I am sam sick and tired of this.

---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Ohh...That is about $400 I have been ripped off of since I have been here!  That is A LOT of money when you have no money.


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## David Baxter PhD

Indeed.


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## Retired

Kathleen,

Moving forward from this experience, what is your plan with regard to your employment, your home and your relationship with your boss/landlord? 

If I understood correctly in what you wrote,  that you are paying rent to your employer for your place to live, is that correct?


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## Kathleen

It is kind of complicated, and I am basically working 24 hours a day.  I live above the motel at which I work.  I work all day for "student wage" (which now I know I should be making more than that).  I start usually at 8am or 10 am and work until 6pm.  When 6pm comes I work 6pm-10:30pm for rent.  I close up at 10:30pm, but still have to answer the phone when it rings during the night "in case it is an emergency."  (This is between 10:30 when we close and 8am when we open.)  Then I do it all over again.  

I am now working between 44-50 hours a week that I get paid for (9.60/hour student wage...should be 10.25 minimum wage).  ON TOP OF THAT I work 31.5 hours a week that I don't get paid for because it is for rent.  THEN I am "on call" and have to answer the phone whenever it rings during the night between 10:30pm and 8am.  I have told my boss/landlord that it is too much, but she doesn't do anything about it.  I need to get out of here.


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## Retired

I f you feel you need to make a change, then I would suggest it be done in a way that you don't jeopardize your present source of income and place to live.  Understanding you are not happy with your boss, your income and the working conditions,  try not to show your hand until you have a new job secured along with a different living arrangement.

You are in a precarious situation because your job and your place to live are linked, and if something goes sour with one, it could affect the other.

If you are making job inquiries, try to be discreet, and be careful about prospective employers calling you back at your place of work or even your present home, since it seems your boss/landlord might be in a position to intercept your calls.

Yor plan should be based on priorities, and it seems your mental health might be at the top of that list.  Perhaps with the cooperation of your CMHA worker, you can figure out a plan that would get you back to better health, then perhaps consider a change in employment and place to live.

Taking on too many things at once is very stressful, and this might not be a good time to add to your stress. 

Is there any possibility of negotiating a better working arrangement with your boss, to allow you more time to yourself?


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## Kathleen

Thanks Steve.  I have tried telling her I am having difficulty working basically 24/7, but she doesn't do anything about it.  She loooks at it that if I had less hours then she would have to be here to run her own business.  She is never here and she doesn't want to work.  If I call her to aske her to come in for an hour or two she freaks.  I can't even look at her today, after what she said to me last night.


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## Retired

> I can't even look at her today, after what she said to me last night



Understadable, because from what you have written, her remarks were cruel and inappropriate.  However, you need to focus on the fact this is your income and your place to live at this moment, and you cannot afford to jeopardize either.  You may just have to "hold your nose" while dealing with her for a while until you figure out a plan that makes sense.

What is the potential for other job opportunities in your area?  Although we hope you never need to face the possibility, do you have a contingency plan for where you can go in the event this job comes to an end before you find something else?


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## Kathleen

I will be in college full-time in two weeks, so I will only need a part time job.  One should be easiy enough to find.

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

I am going to go look at an apartment tomorrow morning.  It is a reasonable price and is inclusive.  I can also bring all my pets.


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## Retired

Good luck on the apartment!  Looking forward to hearing how it goes.


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## Kathleen

The guy forgot his key and then when he went back to find it he couldn't.  Now I am just waiting to hear back from him.  I called him today again to let him know I was still interested in it.  
I went into hospital on Sunday night, but they let me out to go look at the apartment with my worker.  I just got out today at around 2pm.  They didn't do anything with my medication.  There isn't even an on call psychiatrist here, so the on shift doc told me if I wanted my meds changed I had to go to the mental hospital 2 hours away from here.  That was not an option, so nothing has changed there. They said I was going through psychosis because of sleep deprivation or something like that.  I have no clue, but I feel a bit better after having slept for 3 days in a row.  
I am so scared to talk to my employer/landlord.  She just came in, and I know I am going to get an ear full.  She already told one of the other girls that she is deducting 4.5 hours off my pay for each day I was in the hospital for rent.  She is not going to like what happens if she does that because 1...She is paying me 65 cents below minumum wage...2...I work over 44 hours each week and she is not paying me overtime...and 3...She makes me work over 48 hours some weeks, which is not legal unless I sign a form saying I am willing to do so.  
I honestly dont know what is going to go down.  Send good thoughts.


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## Retired

Your personal safety has to be your primary concern, so you would want to avoid a nasty, aggressive confrontation with the boss/landlord.  It sounds like she may be tightly wound with unpredictable and aggressive reactions.

Your other concern would be your personal property that's in the present home space, owned by the landlord/boss.

Last would be settlement of the cash owed to you for the work you have done.

In view of your recent history with this person, I feel you need to have someone with you to act as a witness to anything that is said and done, and to help you move your property.

Here is what I would do:

Get someone with authority and perhaps even some physical strength to be with you during the separation process.  Perhaps the CMHA worker could help or someone in their office could volunteer.  Is there a Womens' Shelter in your community where you might be able to enlist their help in moving out of what might be described as an abusive relationship with the landlord/boss?

Another option is to stop in at the local police station, and tell the officer on duty about your situation, that you need to move your property from the place where the landlord is also your boss and the woman has a history of aggressive behaviour toward you and you fear for your safety.  Also mention the discrepancy with the amount you feel you are owed for your work, and the money she plans to withhold because you were in hospital.

When you have your support team worked out, and a vehicle to move your property, that would be the time to _politely_  confront the landlord/boss.  It is important that you maintain control of your emotions, be polite and do not provoke her.  Explain you have decided to move elsewhere and to work elsewhere, that you would like to move out your property and to settle your wage accounts.

Have all your calculations prepared ahead of time so you don't have to do any calculating on the spot under pressure.  Be sure that you r witness is always at your side and that the witness hears and sees everything..this is of utmost importance for your safety and for your credibility in the event of any future actions.

Most important, Kathleen, is remain calm and composed and above all be polite, regardless of what is said and done.   You would be surprised how being polite can help diffuse an otherwise escalating situation.

Speak to a police person, ask their advice and get a witness who is strong in personality and in physical strength to be your support.

If worse comes to worst, and hopefully it doesn't, you may decide to cut any losses in earned income just to get out of the place with your property and emotional health intact.   I know you cannot afford to lose money, but when push comes to shove, your health and safety is worth more than a few dollars.

I wish you well during this difficult time.


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## Kathleen

Thanks for the advice.  She did pay me 10.25 for the month of August, but will not pay me overtime or back-pay.  I think I am going to fill out a claims report.  There are other people she is ripping off too and it isn't right or fair.  She asked me what was going on and I told her I was going to move out.  She told me that unless I change my mind and want to stay, I have until the end of the month.  Hopefully I can find a place by then.  It wasn't as bad talking to her as I thought it would be.  

I had an appointment with my CMHA worker yesterday.  It was to explain to her that I wanted a new worker and why.  I went into the appointment with a clear head (well...as clear as I could get it) and I was ready to tell her why I wasn't able to talk to her.  She was not very professional.  It was like she was taking a temper tantrum because I didn't want to see her anymore.  She had an angry look.  When I went into the office, I sat down and she immediately said in a rude tone "No...Sit over here."  Then she just started at me...All my confidence went out the window.  I was so intimidated that I started to cry and I couldn't get out what I had to say.  She told me that I couldn't get a new worker and then ended our appointment.  It was scheduled for 3:00 and I was out of there by 3:05.  I honestly can't believe the way she acted.  I am still blown away.  

Anyways, I told CMHA I didn't want their services anymore and I turned to the health unit for help.  I immediately saw the difference in people.  The people at the health unit really care.  They actually want to help you.  They immediately set me up with a community support worker to help me find an apartment and I will be assigned a worker next Tuesday.  I got more out of the intake appointment with the health unit than I did in 4 sessions with the CMHA worker.  

My head was in such a spin yesterday that I forgot to put a stamp on my OSDP employment sheet that has to be in by the 7th.  Somehow it managed to slip by, so I do not know when it will be returned.  Monday is a holiday and the ODSP office is 2 hours away.  If it doesn't come back until Tuesday, they wont get it on time.  I really hope my pay doesn't get cancelled or delayed because of this, especially because I have to be out by the end of the month and need the money for a new place.  My life is a big mess right now and I have no idea how I am going to sort it out.  Hopefully once I get a case worker things will start to turn around.  Thanks for listening.


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## Retired

In situations like this, it is best to try to handle one thing at a time, in priority of importance.  If you can write down a list, then decide what has to be done first, second and so on, it should help you deal with one thing at a time.

It sounds like you have made progress by visiting the health unit.  Our health care system is stressed and overloaded, so sometimes health care workers seem on edge.  Their behaviour should not be taken personally, because everyone has a bad day from time to time. 

Keep us posted on how it goes.


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## David Baxter PhD

See if you can call the ODSP office to let them know that you think you forgot to put a stamp on the letter.


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