# Guilt and Shame



## Retired (Feb 25, 2013)

*Guilt*
Guilt and its handmaiden, shame, can paralyze??or catalyze one into action. Appropriate guilt can function as social glue, spurring one to make reparations for wrongs. Excessive rumination about one's failures, however, is a surefire recipe for resentment and depression.
_***source: Psychology Today_


The Definitive Guide to Guilt  | Psychology Today


Guilt is a Wasted Emotion | Psychology Today


Guilt is a Wasted Emotion | Psychology Today


Shame on You  The Challenge of Religious Guilt | Faith on the Couch


Attached  files for download / printing


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## Peter (Jul 14, 2014)

Hello Steve.

I see things differently about guilt and shame.
Guilt's self-talk says: "I made a mistake, I won't do that again." Guilt emotion motivates us to change for the better. 
In itself, guilt is a survival/recovery emotion.

While shame's self-talk says: "I am a mistake." Shame emotion comes from repeated (unchanged) guilt due to fear of changing for the better. 
That is, fear stops us from changing, and the same mistake gets repeated. 
If the fear of change is not seen, but seeing only the repeated mistake, then we end up believing we are a mistake. We label ourselves as "I am stupid", "I am hopeless", etc. 
The truth? Nobody is a mistake. Shame (self reproach) simply stems from being afraid to change - nothing more than that.
In itself, shame is a damning/relapsing emotion.

Guilt emotion triggered by fear of external judgement stems from our ego-mind. Any negative judgment will threaten our self-esteem ('ego energy level', or 'degree of validation').
To save face, or self-esteem, it is best to change (our thoughts and/or actions) for approval/validation.
This type of generated guilt loses meaningfulness when we start to fully accept ourselves (warts and all). That is, we no longer fear other people's judgement on us.

Guilt emotion triggered by regret of disillusionment stems from our truth. It is our conscience which points to the truth , the way or a truthful realistic life.
Certain deluded desires (wants) steer us from the truth (of need nothing to feel okay). We tend to exploit the delusion to a point where we realize it was to no avail.
That awareness raises a guilt emotion to change towards a more truthful realistic existence. 

In both cases, guilt emotions are useful and needed to impart motivation to change. It is only wasted when we fear/ignore the need for that change/improvement. IMHO.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jul 15, 2014)

Hallo, Peter...

For the most part I agree about your definition of shame...  However sometimes the shame develops over a long period of time, and is brought down on someone via caregivers/parents.  I believe, yes, there is a fear of change definitely, in that case, because of being so used to being blamed or being the scapegoat.  Maybe this is what you mean about "fear of change?"

I don't know that shame is a fear of change, exactly, though.  Isn't it more of a fear of expressing oneself because one is afraid that they will be beat down (physically or emotionally or socially).  Someone who experiences shame, for example: "I am a bad daughter because, although my mother is abusive toward me, other people/society will condemn me because it is expected that a child always loves his mother."  I suppose that is also fear of change: because of how it "looks" to relatives/friends/community outside the bubble of this relationship example, the adult child is afraid of putting down healthy boundaries, standing up for herself, having self-pride, or continuing to be someone she isn't because her mother enforces her will upon her daughter.  And sometimes she IS harassed, ridiculed, shamed from relatives/friends/community because they don't see/understand what happened in this relationship. 

Bah, I am not sure I'm making sense.  It was just an intuitive reaction to the definition of shame.  But maybe that's because I have a whacky perspective/belief system of what shame is.  It seems much more complicated than what you've said, but maybe it isn't!  lol


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## Peter (Jul 15, 2014)

Hello jollygreenjellybean.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on shame.

Yes, it can be complicated and confusing. I find that when I get caught up in the stories about shame, I get even more confused, or drifted away from its truth. This is especially so if it relates to our childhood, and not knowing any different (so it seems).

Personally, as an adult, after much _introspection_ of my truth, I started to see this differently.
I remember, in my childhood, of 'knowing' deep down that I was okay as a person. But life circumstances, as bold and raw as it can be at times, told me differently. Both physical and mental abuse filled my head with 'stories' that opposed my inner self-truth of being okay. I carried a lot of shame because of that. Even so, I still carried some self-respect, because I survived it all. It was that bit of self-respect that kept my going, regardless of the abuse and shaming. 

However, throughout it all I was too afraid to stand up for myself. If I could, and be acknowledged, I would have made a change in me. But I had to wait until I felt adult enough to prove/express my self-respect, at least to physically (to protect myself against the physical abuse). That is how I thought about it, as subtle as it was, at the time. But in the meantime, on a more conscious level, I was a frightened child in his own home, desperately seeking ways to not be noticed.

So, in this regard, I knew deep down I was not a mistake, but too scared to stop the shaming, regardless of how hard I tried to please the abuser. 
Eventually I gave up, and believed on the surface of consciousness (my life stories) that I was a mistake. But deep down, I still knew that I was not a mistake, but just too scared to make a difference. 
It was later as an adult, I learnt to change it around, to full self-awareness, that at the time I was too scared to change, but had to wait till I was able to make that change.

I hope this has helped to clear any complication/confusion.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jul 16, 2014)

What you describe about yourself does sound a lot like me...  I think because I had that tiny shred of self still in me, that might be why I sought help and got it when I was an adult.  I wasn't so damaged to the point where I pushed down even my self so I would not admit I had issues.  I do know that Truth is a big thing in our family.  A person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder is laden with self-denial/lies. 

 She would always have to be right, even when she was wrong.  She made up reality to suit her.  And she seemed/seems to still believe this false history she makes up herself.  And because of this, she sees everything wrong about herself showing in everyone else around her, so her finger points out to other people instead of in toward herself.  To be forever blameless, to be forever correct, to be in control of other people... That is definitely a false.  lol  And then, of course, there are those who would enable her falseness.  If she ever DID face the truth, I have been told it is the nature of her personality disorder, it would be crushing to her.  So I could understand why she would not want to face the truth, because it would be so painful.  But I also know, because I DID accept the nature of my personality and anxiety, that if you don't face pain, you don't change.  It's a part of the Transformation/rebirth into a new Self, or maybe not a new Self, but a more authentic Self.  A True Self (or at least more true, because sometimes you can only face one layer of pain at a time)...

So you know what?  You are so correct!


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