# Don't know what to think



## PRJM (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm new, this is my first post and I want to start first by apologizing because honestly, I'm not sure if I'm here for help or I'm just feeling sorry for myself and fishing for someone to commiserate and I do not want to make light of people truly needing help.

With that said, I'll say a little more and wait for your response. I hate my life; I hate the person I am. I struggle every morning just to get out of bed becuase I don't want to do it again. My life is not a case of living as much as it is simply exisiting and I don't see the point in that. I'm 36 with a wife and 3 children all of whom I care for deeply but I have no desire to live another 36 or 26 or 46 years this same way.

Some specific problems are I have a (physical) health issue - IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). I don't really want to get into it because I've been addressing it for about 15 years now with no solution but it's proven that those who suffer from it have a lower quality of life. 

I've made some regrettable career moves and am now stuck at a dead end job that does not offer any personal satisfaction. It does, however, hinder the family life I want because of the schedule (completely opposite of my kids) and, while it pays the bills, it doesn't pay enough to relieve the constant financial burden my wife and I have.

I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## Retired (Apr 16, 2011)

Hello PRJM and thanks for joining Psychlinks.  No need to apologize for sharing your situation, which is obviously causing considerable distress.

You posted your remarks in the suicide section, so does this mean you are contemplating suicide?  

Mood disorders are a treatable medical illness, so no one has to endure the kind of pain you are feeling.  Because of the nature of this illnes, thinking becomes distorted so that suicide appears to be an option to stop the pain.

However with the right kind of treatment, there is hope for alleviating the symptoms that are causing your pain.



> I'm 36 with a wife and 3 children all of whom I care for deeply



These are the people you love and who love you, and your children are counting on their Dad for guidance as they grow up.  These are the treasures of your life and the reasons for living.


Have you ever discussed your mood with your doctor or have you ever been treated for mood disorder with therapy or medication?


----------



## Marcel (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi PRJM - I'm glad you posted.  I frequently compare myself to others and think my problems are "no big deal".  But I had a therapist tell me that it isn't a competition.  If it matters to me and/or causes me distress, it is important.  And personally, I don't see anything wrong with someone feeling low and wanting someone to commiserate - I think that is a natural human thing - even for minor things like when you get a paper cut, everyone I know will tell the first person they see "ahhhhh, look! it hurtssss!" and wave their finger in the air.  From minor to more serious issues, it is nice to have someone "hear" you and share in your experiences and be a sounding board.  And often, I just want someone to hear me, not "fix" things - sometimes just being heard helps.  And if I get helpful feedback, that is just an added bonus.

As for the light at the end of the tunnel, I don't see it either.  But that doesn't mean it isn't there.  It just means we haven't rounded the bend yet where it makes its appearance.

About your job, I understand the feeling of being "stuck".  I find it can be helpful to subscribe to mailing lists of jobs that might interest me, or to search the internet to see what is there.  I haven't actually done anything more than that - taken the next steps of applying for them or writing a resume.  But reading the listings reminds me there *are* options out there.  I might not be able to take the steps to pursue them right now, but my logic is faulty if I tell myself there is no other job for me.  These listings help me to keep in mind changing jobs involves a lot of stress and uncertainty and anxiety and work.  But it *is* a possibility.  Similarly, if a career change is something of interest, you could just read what is involved in working in another field - research what education would be required and where you could get it, what work experience is needed, how much time and money it would cost to follow another path.  It doesn't mean you will end up pursuing that alternative career, but it opens your mind to the possibility that there *are* other things out there in the world, even if you don't feel/believe it at the moment.


----------



## PRJM (Apr 16, 2011)

Steve said:


> You posted your remarks in the suicide section, so does this mean you are contemplating suicide?



I do at times but it's more a case of thinking that dying would be a way out rather than to actually do it to myself.  I'm active in a forum for the IBS I mentioned and this is a very prevalent mindset within that community.  That to get a fatal disease/illness that can be explained and is recognized or to die in an automobile accident etc. would be welcomed - a way to bring an end to the despair because one just can't imagine continuing on.

I suppose the concern is if/when that balance shifts and one becomes more willing to take matters into their own hands.

And also, being new to the forum, I'm just not sure where I best fit in!?!

I haven't discussed this with anyone yet.  My wife knows I'm not happy, although probably not to this extent and would be surprised.  She's a great wife and very understanding.  And you're right, the thought of doing this to my children makes me sick - they don't deserve it.  With that said, the only guidance I feel I'm qualified to pass on to them is to not be like me.


----------



## Retired (Apr 16, 2011)

Don't be concerned about where your post might fit in, just go ahead and post.  We'll go ahead and move it, leaving a re-direct message, if locating your post in a different section might increase responses.



			
				PRJM said:
			
		

> the only guidance I feel I'm qualified to pass on to them is to not be like me



I wonder if you might be concluding that your mood is a refection of your character, whereas it might be that dealing with your physical disorder has triggered a mood disorder that has affected your outlook on life.  As has been said, mood disorders are treatable, but it takes your desire to seek out help.

Have you ever discussed your mood with your doctor or have you ever been treated for mood disorder with therapy or medication?


----------



## PRJM (Apr 17, 2011)

Marcel said:


> From minor to more serious issues, it is nice to have someone "hear" you and share in your experiences and be a sounding board.



Thanks for your reply and suggestions Marcel.  I too appreciate what your therapist said as it's hard because I know as bad as I'm feeling, there's someone out there feeling worse and I should just be happy for what I do have.

I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to turn things around - probably too much time as perhaps it's just exacerbating my ill feelings?  On the other hand, I refuse to settle.

---------- Post added April 17th, 2011 at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was April 16th, 2011 at 04:36 PM ----------

I've never sought treatment for a mood disorder as my focus has been on finding a solution for the physical syndrome.  And while there's no doubt that having an underlying/pre-exisiting concern can affect one's mood and outlook, it's hard for me to say if my physical issue is the only factor here and that things would be different (better) if I didn't have to worry about it.  

One of the first things most doctor's do with someone who presents IBS to them is to respond with a prescription for SSRI's (I'll just assume you know what those are).  I've been on a few (Paxil comes to mind) and they've done nothing at all for me or my IBS.  Now I don't want to seem confused as to what forum I'm on here but I mention this simply to illustrate/ask have I been inadvertently treated for a mood disorder?


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 17, 2011)

Probably not. SSRIs are also used to treat anxiety, anger, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, menopause, ADHD, etc. I know little about their use in the treatment of IBS but at a minimum I could see it being helpful in managing stress and anxiety, which I assume has some link to IBS flareups (?).


----------



## Marcel (Apr 17, 2011)

PRJM said:


> Thanks for your reply and suggestions Marcel.  I too appreciate what your therapist said as it's hard because I know as bad as I'm feeling, there's someone out there feeling worse and I should just be happy for what I do have.
> 
> I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to turn things around - probably too much time as perhaps it's just exacerbating my ill feelings?



Hi PRJM,

I think that is great you are trying to figure out ways to improve your situation and I understand it must be very frustrating that you haven't been able to find solutions yet.

Since you are stuck at this job right now, is there anything that can be done to make your days there more pleasant?  Are there any irritants in your workspace that would make things better if they were improved?  Things that the company would not mind changing because they are of little or no cost to them?  Is your keyboard sticking, mouse not working?  Would it help to have more light?  Is your chair (if you sit at your job) uncomfortable and needing replacement or a back support?  If you rearranged your workspace, would it make your environment better?  Do you need an extra cabinet to store things?  Could you bring in a radio and listen to music during the day?  Would they mind if you adjusted your workday slightly so you could spend more time with your children?  Perhaps come in a few minutes earlier and leave a few minutes earlier to give you a little bit more time with your kids before/after their school?  Or work a few minutes extra each day and then on Friday (or another day) every week, or every other week, leave early to do an activity with the kids (particularly since we are now getting into nicer weather).

These things won't solve your larger concerns, but they might help to make things less unbearable in the meantime.

About others being worse off - there will always be other people worse off than you - as well as better off.  But you aren't causing their distress and your suffering does not mean they are suffering any less.  By trying to improve your own situation, you are in no way making theirs worse.


----------



## PRJM (Apr 17, 2011)

Thanks again Marcel.  Unfortunately, the place I work is huge, employing about 4000 people so we are all disposable unlike a small tight knit workgroup so I'm not really in a position to make any "requests."  With that said, I realize no job is going to be perfect and I can overlook the small stuff - it's the shift that I'm fed up with.  I'm tired of working nights, weekdends and holidays - the complete opposite schedule of my children and basically having no family life to enjoy.  It was O.K. when I first got started (I'm a Chef if I haven't mentioned that yet?) at a much younger age before having kids but I only got into the business because my girlfriend/now wife had dreams of running our own restaurant.  Well, fifteen years and three kids later...I'm stuck.

My wife and I still have that dream but like I've said, I can't see myself continuing on like this much longer.


----------



## Marcel (Apr 17, 2011)

Your post did help explain more about the issues.  Hmmm....  It is indeed humbling when you learn the "everyone is replaceable" lesson - well it was for me anyway - I used to work at a large corporation, many years ago (when I was young and naive).  But....I also know that replaceable or not, the company definitely had interest in retaining people that knew the ropes and while aggressive demands were certainly met with the "you are replaceable" mentality, reasonable demands (that didn't negatively impact the corporation) were also accomodated where possible.  ie it costs corporations more in the long run to have high turnover.

Is the corporation aware that "when" an opening on the day shifts comes up, that you are definitely interested?  ie that you are a team player, but you have paid your dues, and would like the opportunity for dayshifts?  Have you officially stated that you would like to work days so it is on your file somewhere?  Do you know "what number" you are in line re seniority....I ask that going on the assumption that those with seniority get first pick at shifts.  ie are you one, two, three or ten employees away from being next in line at shift choices?

I'm sorry I don't have solutions for you - I'm just trying to throw out some ideas in case it will make you think of something else (since you know all the details/circumstances) that you might not have tried or pursued yet.


----------



## PRJM (Apr 17, 2011)

Marcel said:


> I'm sorry I don't have solutions for you - I'm just trying to throw out some ideas in case it will make you think of something else (since you know all the details/circumstances) that you might not have tried or pursued yet.


 
Marcel, please do not feel you have to apologize or figure this out for me.  Just the fact that you're trying to help is appreciated and believe me, I'm not here to thrust my feelings and bring anyone else down.


----------



## Marcel (Apr 17, 2011)

PRJM said:


> I'm not here to thrust my feelings and bring anyone else down.



Actually, it does the opposite....trying to help someone out - it gives a person some meaning or purpose to their life  

But do you know - are you anywhere near being at a point where you can get some dayshifts, at least some months?


----------



## PRJM (Apr 18, 2011)

Unfortunately, No.  It's like you said before, a place of this size operates solely on seniority and it's get confusing because this particular place uses both company and department.  My company seniority is good (I've been there for 10 years) but my department seniority is not because every time you switch departments (for the purpose of progressing and advancement in my case), you go to the bottom of the list.  For example, there was a time when I got day shifts and even had Sunday/Monday off but I made less money.  It's not that money is my priority but I did want to advance.

I'd certainly welcome the day shifts if they were an option but it would only be a short term fix.  My goal has always been to get my own place going and while it was once something I wanted to do for myself, it's evolved into something that I want to do for my family.  I look at it like what message am I sending to my children and in turn what will their impression be of me to see me feeling sorry for myself due to my lack of accomplishment(s).


----------



## Marcel (Apr 18, 2011)

Is there anyone else you have been working with the past 10 years that you respect and trust and that would be interested in opening a restaurant with you?  It might be easier to work towards this goal if you had a partner(s).

I don't have children, but I always found that kids view the world from a different perspective than adults.  I imagine they think their Dad walks on water and they would be surprised to hear that you worry they are/will be judging you.  I think spending time with them when you can means more to them than how your career has progressed.  If they are still really young, is there a way you can connect with them when you aren't there - something you could hide before you leave for work that they get to have a treasure hunt to find each day?  Could you write them a silly note in pictures rather than words/letters each day, so they had to decipher what you were saying (like pictionary) - then there is the added entertainment at laughing at Dad's artistic abilities (or lack thereof!:lol as well?  One of my parental figures worked nights and for years, I would write him a little note for his lunch bag - and he would leave me notes as well.  I only saw him on the weekends due to his shift work.  But we were still very close.

If your kids are older, could you start a game of sending youtube videos on various themes each day - videos with cars, videos about comedies, videos about weather - lot s of possibilities.  Just something so you could make an extra connection even when you weren't physically there.

I think your kids would value a Dad that treats people well, keeps his word, is honest - that sort of thing.  I think what Dad does for a living would run a distant second (or third, fourth, etc.) to that.


----------



## PRJM (Apr 18, 2011)

You hit the nail on the head there Marcel...


Marcel said:


> I think spending time with them when you can means more to them than how your career has progressed.



It's one of the things I love about my kids and kids in general.  Simply giving them your time has got to be the simplest, easiest act to do and it's all they really want; a bike ride, hockey in the drive-way, a board game etc.  I do my best to remember this and make the most of the time I do have with them but I guess I find it hard because I grew up in a traditional household (Dad worked a blue collar job Monday to Friday with some O.T. and weekends but was home for dinner while Mom looked after the house and kids) and that's all I want but I have to tell them my time is up in the middle of the afternoon when it's time to leave for work.  I feel like I'm just complaining now but essentially it's like my day is over because there's no actual desire or satisfaction from that point on.  The best days of the week for me are my days off because I actually have something to look forward to; them coming home from school and getting to have a family dinner and spend time with them.  

Again, it just comes down to what I classify as Existing vs. Living.  I don't want to just exist, I want to feel passion and live for something.  This doesn't mean my family doesn't qualify but is it wrong to want/need personal satisfaction?

I'm always working on what I think will make me happy (happier) - research and networking as you mention but nothing yet.


----------



## Marcel (Apr 19, 2011)

PRJM said:


> I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to turn things around
> [
> I've never sought treatment for a mood disorder as my focus has been on finding a solution for the physical syndrome.  And while there's no doubt that having an underlying/pre-exisiting concern can affect one's mood and outlook, it's hard for me to say if my physical issue is the only factor here and that things would be different (better) if I didn't have to worry about it.



Hi PRJM - it sounds like you are on top of doing what you can to pursue your career goals while working at a job that supports your family.  It also sounds like you are using the time you do have with your family to its fullest.   So perhaps it is time to call in reinforcements to see if they could help you, since you have been working at it on your own for quite awhile.

Regardless of whether your IBS has "caused" your low mood, or if your low mood would exist without it, the low mood is there.  As per Steve's previous posts, would you consider looking at medication again to see if you could find one to better help you with your symptoms?  Would you go to a regular physician, or would you be able to find a psychiatrist who given his/her specialization, might better to be able to find you a medication that would help, given lack of success with those you tried in the past?  You absolutely have every right to find that passion for life again - and perhaps therapy might help with that, in addition to medication too?


----------



## PRJM (Apr 19, 2011)

Sure I would (consider medication - go to a physician/psychiatrist).  I'd consider anything that could help me and my family.  My only hesitation is that I don't want to just put a band-aid on the problem.  The fact that this might be my only option right now (unless I win the lottery) though is not lost on me and it's either that or shut up and stop complaining so...

Marcel, I just want to say I really do enjoy "talking" to you and appreciate all your help.


----------



## Marcel (Apr 19, 2011)

PRJM said:


> My only hesitation is that I don't want to just put a band-aid on the problem.



But a band-aid can help the process of healing - make the healing easier/faster.  Can you make the call today to set up an appointment - to get the ball rolling?


----------



## PRJM (Apr 19, 2011)

I wont lie to you Marcel and say it's actually going to get done _today_ but I do realize something needs to be done.  Let's call it a work in progress.


----------



## PRJM (Jun 3, 2013)

Well here I am again. It's been a while but obviously something drew me back and talk about a slap in the face. It's been two years and after reviewing my thread it seems like nothing has changed. Not for the better anyway. 

I'm still at that job which I hate not because I don't enjoy what I do but because my schedule is the complete opposite of my children. I still have IBS (but I'm resigned that this is something that I'm not likely to ever rid myself of). My wife and I are financially strapped. And I've reached a point where there's no denying I've become an alcoholic. Obviously a functioning alcoholic but believe me, I'm not bragging.

I used this line before but it's a case of simply existing rather than actually living. If I may, and like before, I know there are people in much worse situations than myself that I am in no manner disrespecting as much as simply seeking commiseration, my day to day schedule is as follows...

...wake up after 5 or 6 hours to see 2 of my 3 children before school. 
...spend the morning with my youngest and wife if she is not working.
...leave for work mid-afternoon.
...return home around midnight to be by myself because naturally, everyone is in bed.
...spend a couple hours watching T.V., having something to eat and getting drunk.
...stumble to bed, have a horrible sleep if any sleep at all because of having to go to the bathroom and sore restless legs from standing for 8 hours at work.

As selfish as this sounds, I feel like there is nothing in my life for me. Most days, I do love to spend the morning with my daugter going to the park, the community centre or playing games. But it gets to you when this is your everyday and all the while in the back of my head I'm just dreading that I have to go to work.  I don't have a Saturday/Sunday weekend so even on my days off the older kids are in school and then my evening is divided between driving them to and from their activities...karate, soccer, gymnastics etc.  We don't even have time to sit down and have dinner together as a family. 

In a previous post, Steve stated how my children are my reason for living and I couldn't agree more...I remind myself of this everytime I start to feel negatively.   But am I wrong in saying/feeling that everyone needs something for themselves?  Something personal?  All I have are my couple of hours at the end of the day sitting by myself watching T.V and drinking a few beers.  That's pretty pathetic.  And it's not like there's a trade off in all this where I can say that I make a lot of money or I have a great career and hold a position of prominence.   

I don't want to give up but am I at the point that I just have to concede this is my life?  My youngest will be starting school this September so my wife and I talk about how this might open the window for us to implement changes but for now, I just have no motivation.


----------



## MHealthJo (Jun 3, 2013)

Hi there PJRM,

So sorry to hear you are still feeling really stuck.

How did you go in the end with looking into professional advice?

Sometimes we really need to enlist the help of a mental health professional to help us work out ways to get unstuck.... They are really good at what they do, better for sure than we on our own...


----------

