# How to respond to someone who is depressed and/or suicidal



## Yuray (Jul 20, 2009)

All in all, cold or not, caring or not, advice or not, the upside is that turtles responses have for at least the time she takes to respond, removed her from the fanatasy of death, whether admitted or not. This post will have lasting effects on many who read it, and give cause for thought, as it already has. This post requires people to think, and explore other areas of response to it. Whether my remarks are acceptable or not, they are having an impact that is positive in that it causes thought. Chastise me as you will, but you cannot deny the impact of what I say. There is nothing vindictive in my words, nor malicious. It is another perspective. These forums are for just such a thing. To cause thought, and explore the reasons behind thought. If by consensus my words are damaging, remove them, but remove them for the proper reasons, not becuase they are not of a more patronizing tone.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 20, 2009)

Split from http://forum.psychlinks.ca/suicide/18578-finding-reasons-to-go-on.html


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## Yuray (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you for the new thread. It is appropriate. I was somewhat off topic to the original post.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 20, 2009)

Yuray said:


> All in all, cold or not, caring or not, advice or not, the upside is that turtles responses have for at least the time she takes to respond, removed her from the fanatasy of death, whether admitted or not.



Even if that were true, and in fact I have good reason to believe it is not, how would you be in a position to know that?



Yuray said:


> This post will have lasting effects on many who read it, and give cause for thought, as it already has. This post requires people to think, and explore other areas of response to it. Whether my remarks are acceptable or not, they are having an impact that is positive in that it causes thought. Chastise me as you will, but you cannot deny the impact of what I say.



There is a time for challenge, a time for debate, and a time for support. You still haven't figured out when one is appropriate and the other is not, Yuray. I urge you to push yourself to examine this and to try to gain some insight into why you are getting the negative reaction you are.

When someone is struggling with suicidal thoughts, that is simply not a time for a philosophical or intellectual debate. At such a time, the individual is drivien by strong emotion (despair, hopeless, etc.), and by objectively distorted cognitions and perception, not by logic.



Yuray said:


> There is nothing vindictive in my words, nor malicious.



I sincerely hope that is true. I think it is. I don't believe you are malicious or uncaring, but I do think you are misguided.



Yuray said:


> It is another perspective. These forums are for just such a thing. To cause thought, and explore the reasons behind thought.



Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. In the context in which your comments were offered, that was one of the no times.


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## Always Changing (Jul 20, 2009)

> If by consensus my words are damaging, remove them, but remove them for the proper reasons, not becuase they are not of a more patronizing tone.


the latter end of this sentence is unwarranted and insulting to me. 

I found I wasn't able to reply in the original thread due to the topic of that thread, too close to home for me at the min, howsever Yuray,  I would like to say in my opinion only, that your sentence above is an insult to me and possibly to the other members who are offering their support to Turtle. True support is not patronising and if you believe it is then you are in the wrong forum period!


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## Yuray (Jul 20, 2009)

I find that so many are irritated by my words, that perhaps my words are indeed offensive. I defer to majority opinion, and shall offer no defense other than good intention.


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## Jackie (Jul 20, 2009)

Yuray,

I came on here this morning to see how Turtle was and I am disgusted with your treatment of her. It is totally out of order to speak to someone who is depressed and suicidal in the way you have. You should really be ashamed of yourself. Don't you realise or even care that your"bull in a china shop" attitude could be damaging and cause even more upset?  What planet are you on?  It certainly isn't a planet full of love, warmth, caring and support for someone who is very obviously in the darkest, most painful place there is to be.....


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## Yuray (Jul 20, 2009)

Sometimes a bull in a china shop is called for. Again, it was with good intention, even if it was wrong. E mails have been recvd commending me. Had my responses be deemed damaging, they would have been removed. I'm neither cold nor uncaring, and definitely not bitter towards life. 

When someone makes allusions to ending their life, and displays no interest in living (and hasn't for years), after years of therapy and depression, some aspects of support and treatment seem to be having no effect. I won't continue to defend my actions in public for my brutality. I have said quite enough, but will still accept, and think about the criticisms offered, and I will honestly think about them, and your reasons for making them. Thank you all for your honesty.


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## white page (Jul 20, 2009)

Yuray,


> When someone is struggling with suicidal thoughts, that is simply not a time for a philosophical or intellectual debate. At such a time, the individual is drivien by strong emotion (despair, hopeless, etc.), and by objectively distorted cognitions and perception, not by logic.



Your point of view is legitimate and valid , that is why it is  neccessary to be very careful about what is moderated. It is helpful for the members to see all these differing points of view and the responses they produce, my own experience of the same thought process as Turtle  chronic suicide thinking ( everyday)this approach  would make me crumple. It may be your way of coping, and for that reason it is legitimate and valid.

best wishes wp'


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 20, 2009)

Yuray said:


> Had my responses be deemed damaging, they would have been removed.



Not necessarily. In this case, I think the recipient of your comments replied with her reactions admirably. The contrast of your comments with her replies and the replies of others was left to illustrate the error of taking that type of approach to someone depressed and suicidal. Leaving your comments in the thread should not imply that what you said could not be extremely damaging to certain individuals.


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## Retired (Jul 20, 2009)

I am not a health professional, but my sense as an interested lay person is that when someone is experiencing a life crisis, is depressed or suicidal, we need to meet them at the place they are at that particular moment.

Without reflecting on the thread under discussion, in my view, a person in crisis may not be seeing their life or their world with rational perspective, so attempting to "jolt" them into reality might actually have deterimental effects.

It is why one would be ill advised to suggest a depressed person "snap out of it" or that a suicidal person "stop feeling sorry for themselves".

I believe we need to offer compassion, understanding for the person's concerns at that moment, and support to bridge them to a time when they can receive professional intervention.



			
				Yuray said:
			
		

> I'm neither cold nor uncaring, and definitely not bitter towards life.



I for one have not seen you as uncaring, and have appreciated your comments much of the time.  Hopefully we will continue to enjoy your participation in future Psychlinks discussions.


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## Jackie (Jul 20, 2009)

Its good that everyones posts have been left and not censored, whilst I disagree with Yuray its still good that he/she has been allowed her/ his say. It shows to me a good forum that allows all opinions to aired freely.


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## Banned (Jul 20, 2009)

Yuray said:


> Sometimes a bull in a china shop is called for.


 
You're absolutely right. But as David has already mentioned, this was not the time.



Yuray said:


> When someone makes allusions to ending their life, and displays no interest in living (and hasn't for years), after years of therapy and depression, some aspects of support and treatment seem to be having no effect.


 
Sometimes it may appear this way, especially to an outsider, however, it could be that the support and treatment, while not showing immediate visible signs of improvement, especially to an "outsider", are what keeps the person from making that final, fatal decision. I've improved alot in the last three years. I know I would not be here today to type this otherwise, however, it doesn't take away from immediate circumstances. Only my treatment team and I know whether there has been an improvement in my symptoms.



Yuray said:


> I won't continue to defend my actions in public for my brutality.


 
It's not about brutalizing you, it's about showing you a different way of caring that may be more effective for someone who is suicidal or in deep despair.



Yuray said:


> I have said quite enough, but will still accept, and think about the criticisms offered, and I will honestly think about them, and your reasons for making them. Thank you all for your honesty.


 
I hope you do. Normally I find your posts engaging and insightful, however, despite my repeated attempts to steer you in another direction in this instance, I was unsuccessful. We've left this thread in the open so that, as David said previously, it may be an example to others.


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## Yuray (Jul 20, 2009)

All responses noted. I will use these as a guide to govern my method of response in the future. Thank you all, especially you Turtle.


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