# NPD Mother Advice Requested



## ricenbeans (Oct 27, 2014)

Please bear with me as this will be a little lengthy.

I am just now realizing that my mother is a Narcissist. I am 32 years old, married, and live with her in her house. 

Our relationship was great until my teenage years where I began to think on my own. She was caring, nurturing, and loving and then without notice she was gone. I became co-dependant on my mother as I went through a lot of abuse as a child and she was the ONLY one there for me. In the past year I started seeking counseling for my anxiety and depression. She claims I should get counseling to fix myself as I am what is broken in our relationship. 

I understand upon looking back at my mother's life that she endured a lot of abuse growing up and she was basically the mother to her mom. She was given away at a young age in marriage to a Narcissist who was a highly abusive man, my father. I witnessed her throughout the years "toughen up" and turn from a fragile ball of nerves to the "indestructible" woman she is today. Honestly, I pity her.

Upon getting married, I convinced my husband to move in to my mothers home (where I was living at the time) as I didn't want to abandon her and my minor sibling as I was the "man" of the house for many many years. I asked and he went along with it for me. Seven years later, we are still in the same living conditions (I know, I know). 

In the last 4 years, my mother has gotten a lot worse against me personally and has made the mistake of treating my husband in the same fashion. He has lost all patience and I understand him. He wanted to move out years ago but feared I wouldn't follow him. At this point, I am willing to move out. Coincidentally, while we were planning how to break the news we got pregnant for the first time :lol:. Husband is elated!

I live for my family. I volunteer 50+ hours a week at my mother's business and assist her 3xs a week at her charity program. 

I am a pretty honest person and wanted to blurt everything out at the same time. My husband asked me not to as to not taint good baby news with potentially bad moving out news. We agreed to share baby news after our first ultrasound, which hasn't happened yet. Ok, so we had the moving out conversation. We thought we spoke well and were considerate with giving three months anticipation. She was very irrate and turned the conversation into how this would effect her negatively. She demanded that we wait until she sell the house for us to move as she claims she wont be able to maintain the home without our financial assistance. I know that between her and my now adult sibling they make more than enough to live there and do well. It was ironic as she always claims we do not help enough financially and at the end of the conversation suggested that if money is the issue for us to live there without giving anything financially. I don't get it. There has been talk about selling the house on and off for the past 4 years yet she has never made a real effort to sell it. She even asked me what will I do if the house never sells... I was dumb founded by that question and didn't answer. WHAT?!? It's her house, she has owned for over 15 years. She even went on to accuse us of things we aren't even doing. Some things had me thinking my sibling has been used as a hacker of my privacy and then truths have been taken and twisted. When I would try to reply she speaks over my voice to silence me. I could go on...

Severing this relationship, as I have read others on here do, is something that at this point I am not willing to consider.
After this blow up, when my sibling is not around my mother throws a few verbal punches every now and then between her silent treatment. With my sibling present, they are acting nicer to me than they EVER have.  At this point I know I want to move. 

I am excitedly anticipating my first ultrasound and at the same time dreading even having this conversation with them. I am even considering telling them in front of others to force my mother's response to be positive as I know she will play the nice mom role in that type of a setting. I know that she wont take this news that well because my priorities will shift away from her.

I don't know how to speak to her, how to deal with this....
ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated.


----------



## forgetmenot (Oct 27, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Your loyalties are not to be with your husband and you child to come   what you do is walk away and make a new life for your family  
Your mother will not crumble  she will move on to the next person to whom she will play her games with.

Move out as soon as you can  You need to concentrate on YOU now


----------



## ricenbeans (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Thanks for the advice forgetmenot. The crumbling part hit home.


----------



## MHealthJo (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Please also think carefully in all your decisions, realising how close contact or a close relationship with a person like this could affect your child.

You will need all the self-esteem, autonomy, and free time you can possibly get after you have a child. Be sure to establish these things in advance, be very sure to have your own space and know how to set boundaries and look after yourself, your husband, and your child.

 Remember too that your child will look at things in its family and extended family, and from what it sees it will pick up habits, views, beliefs etc about how to (or whether to) protect itself from harmful people, bullies, manipulators, users, abusers, etc. It will see messages about what is OK and what is not OK, how you and your husband should or should not be treated, whether it's OK to bully and manipulate to get what it wants, whether it's OK to be dishonest or lie or use people, etc.


----------



## Retired (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*



ricenbeans said:


> The crumbling part hit home.



Why is that?  What is the hold your Mother has not only your life, but that of your husband and on your baby?  

You appear to have indebted yourself to your Mother through employment, housing and emotional obligation, yet you seem prepared to discard the obvious solution before considering your emotional responsibilities to your own family..husband and baby.



> Severing this relationship, as I have read others on here do, is something that at this point I am not willing to consider.



Is it possible you continue to see yourself as your Mother's child, and that your Mother uses that for her own ends?  As an adult , the usual transit that should have taken place in your relationship with your Mother should have been to form an adult to adult relationship, where you each treat one another as equals.  It sounds like in your situation that transition has not taken place.



> It was ironic as she always claims *we do not help enough financially*....I *volunteer* 50+ hours a week at my mother's business



Can you see why this doesn't make sense?



> She was very irate and turned the conversation into how this would effect her negatively.



Can you see how any decision you and your husband might make is distorted and is manipulated to be all about her?

Forgetmenot is absolutely right:



> Your mother will not crumble she will move on to the next person to whom she will play her games with.



At some point you need to assert yourself on behalf of your family, your baby and your own independence telling your Mother, though you love her dearly, you need to focus on the welfare of your marriage, your new baby and the future of your family.  Living under the current arrangement just does not allow that.  Thank her for her hospitality for the last seven years, and now it's time for you to move on.  You will look forward to her occasional visit in the future, as long as your boundaries are respected.

What does your husband have to say in all this?

You may find the following insightful:

Tips on Setting Boundaries in Enmeshed Relationships | Psych Central

The Narcissistic Mother | Psychology Today

Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers


----------



## ricenbeans (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Thanks MHealthJo. Those are some points I never thought about. I definitely have considered that I don't want my child to witness this type of behavior and deem it as "ok" but much more I do not want my child to be anyone's target. As I do not want to set a poor example I do not want others to either.


----------



## MHealthJo (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Wish the best to you and be sure to have lots of good information and support to create a healthy life for you, your husband and child.
You will find plenty of relevant information here and in books on the subject, also don't be afraid to talk to a skilled therapist who is experienced with these situations, if you find you could benefit from professional guidance and support.


----------



## ricenbeans (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Thanks Steve. I do not know how to reply in such an organized fashion to every statement individually... I will learn but here we go:

I don't have a concrete answer as to why I have indebted myself and my loved ones to my mother other than that is the mentality I was raised with. It has become so strong in me I have dumped guilt on myself to stay this way. It is a role I see played often in my culture and one that I understand is wrong. I am recently beginning to understand that what she has done for me as a mother (raising me, etc...) does not turn into a debt for me in the future. That what we have towards each other are not obligations but instead what we willfully and loving choose to bestow towards one another. I am still learning...

I do see myself as my Mother's child, that is how she sees me. I am the middle child but the first child paved his road away from the family very early and thus I am the first adult child she has had. I was always shy and clenched on to my mother. What can I do to make that transition?

I am aware I can never satiate her financial desires and I am aware that I do a lot. On top of volunteering we do pay bills and give her rent $. 

I will take a look at the links you have there for future reading. 

I do have a question for you... Is it wrong that I do not want to consider severing the relationship right now? What I mean is no contact. I want to have some type of relationship with my mother. I am coming to grips with that it will not be what I expected... what I feel I needed. Is it wrong to feel like something is better than nothing?

My husband had his own issues with his family and he severed ties with them 10+ years ago. He is not happy with our current situation. He sounds a lot like you, actually. He is not pushing me to do anything but has been pushing me to accept that something is not right here. I am grateful for his patience with me and his loving hand holding me through all this. He has helped me to even want to live my own life and make some steps for ME. I feel like I lost a part of me with the sexual abuse I endured as a child by my father and after that I was an easy victim for everything else to fall on me. I have since grown tremendously and am learning to value myself. 
That abuse seems to be an issue that I want to bury but my mother even uses that to paint herself as the victim in MY abuse story in public. She is a public figure in our community. In private she tells she doubts what I am claiming though she knows better. 

I want to heal, completely. I want to breathe my own air and lovingly share it with my family: my husband and my baby to come. 

Thank you for your caring words. :love_heart:

I am still open for any other advice!


----------



## Retired (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

By moving out of your Mother's home doesn't have to result in a severed relationship.  Parents separate from their children all the time, leave home, start their own families, career etc and the family remains intact.   I wonder if in your family dynamic, you and your Mother see living separately as severing your relationship, which, of course is a distorted view of reality.

Have you considered some professional counseling, perhaps couples counseling with your husband or perhaps some form of family counseling where your Mother might even participate.  There seems to be considerable distortion in values and family interaction that a family therapist could help you with.

Considering the fact that you yourself are a survivor of abuse, you may want to begin therapy on your own, to deal with the issues related to the abuse, receive assertiveness training and then perhaps evolve the counseling into couples counseling.  Your therapist would be the best authority to advise you on how to proceed.

In my view, you priority should be to do what it takes for the benefit of your marriage, your relationship with your husband and your family life with your child.

Essentially, if your Mother is unable to come to terms with your independence then the issue is hers to deal with and not yours. 

There is nothing you can do to change her mind until she accepts her behaviour and actions as being inappropriate.  

You need to separate yourself from what can become a toxic environment to your marriage. With a child on the way, the combined stress of a new baby, a domineering and inconsiderate Mother (in law), and a husband who, as you say is struggling with his own issues, combined with confusing financial arrangements you have a volatile situation with a strong potential for marital discord.

Some of us who have had our own failed marriages can relate to some or all of those ingredients as being critical elements in bringing down a marriage.


----------



## ricenbeans (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Thanks Steve. 
I don't personally believe moving out is severing the relationship between us at all. 
My counselor referred me to this website.
I would love to go to couples counseling. I will discuss that with him asap. As far as counseling with my mother involved, I tried several different ways and she is not interested. 

I can forsee the destruction of my marriage and future family due to all of these diverse issues and am desperately wanting to correct this situation to avoid such unnecessary measures. Thanks for your concern especially in that respect. 

Once again, thanks.


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Oct 29, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Is it possible that your mother has a twisted view of what love is and has passed some of these ideas/beliefs down to you?

I know this happened to me.

Some examples:
- nothing you do is good enough: your damned if you do, damned if you don't
- situations that involve you and _your_ family somehow turn into situations about _her_ (as I believe Steve mentioned), and she greatly exaggerates how bad things are for _her_, possibly to manipulate you by making you feel bad for making her feel bad.  But you can't _make_ someone feel something.  They do it all on their own.  She could feel happy for you.  She plays down or ignores how anything affects _you_ and your husband, because it seems it's always about her.
- Perhaps a normal mother would have encouraged you to move out: you and your husband are your own unit.  A normal mother might be supportive and happy that you are happy and understand your need for privacy, for becoming an individual, with your own thoughts and desires and opinions and abilities.  She would understand you and your husband are a team.
- obligation: she does (or perceives that she does, or you perceive that she does) things for you and your family so therefore expects you (or you believe you should) owe her something.  Real love is unconditional.
- in her family and being raised, there was a different "normal" from other families.  And it follows that your "normal" is different from other families.  You still live with this dynamic and need to step away and become your own self, make your own decisions, and not worry about what other people think.  You are an adult, and so is she.  As forgetmenot mentioned, she will not crumble without you.  You mentioned your mother was a mother to her own mother.  In choosing to stay with her, are you not doing the same thing?  You are worried about your mother, possibly like she worried about her mother?    


On a side note... I learned that sometimes what my husband had to say was almost always what my therapist was thinking.   My husband is a really good barometer.  He is more objective than I am in a given situation with my family because he was raised differently.  It's almost like he has immunity to the whole manipulation thing (as does my very observant sister in law, who also has a memory like an elephant, and doesn't allow gaslighting: she can repeat a conversation in the past almost verbatim).  You may be different than I: I put up with way more BS than a regular person.  When my husband is annoyed by a behaviour and tells me why, it really makes sense.  And I noticed the bad behaviour but pretended not to notice, or just kept tolerating.  Because I didn't care enough about myself: I was always trying to please everyone else.  So I pushed my feelings down.  Not healthy for me!  I am much less an enabler now. My tolerance for jerks with bad motives/behaviour is much lower these days!  lol  I hope your filter/barometer is working well.  If not, it may improve when you move out!  ^_^


Therapy is awesome.  I should know!   It's so awesome when you are telling your therapist something that happened and he brings you around to not what you think, or what your mom thinks, but what actually happened. lol  You get so much needed perspective!!!  I am glad to hear you are having couples counseling. It's very important to have a support system.  This will bolster your confidence and help you make informed decisions, and not decisions based on fears and emotions. ♥


----------



## Retired (Oct 29, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*



> My counselor referred me to this website



Our thanks to your counselor for the confidence and support !

It sounds as though you have a pretty good understanding of your situation.  Perhaps if you focused on involving your husband in a joint plan for the future that would include setting up your own separate residence, so that when your new baby arrives, you would have the privacy and independence you will need during this beautifully intimate time with the baby, you might discover a new personal independence from your Mother, of which you appear to have been deprived.



> As far as counseling with my mother involved, I tried several different ways and she is not interested



And that's where I believe you ned to leave it.  You cannot change her behaviour, only she can do that...and before she is even capable of modifying her behaviour, she needs to accept the fact that her current behaviour is inppropriate and needs modification.  Without that acceptance, there can be no change.  Therefore you need to focus on taking control of your own life, your marriage and your own future.

Your counselor can help you with asserting your intentions to your Mother and to set your boundaries with her.

Your relationship with Mother can and should continue but the boundaries need to be made clear, particularly with her behaviour toward your child to prevent your _"well intentioned Mother" _from poisoning your child's relationship with you and the values you choose to instill in your child.


----------



## ricenbeans (Oct 29, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Thanks jollygreenjellybean (your name makes me giggle :lol:...i love it!). Your examples are my reality. I am working on my filter/barometer. The truth is it has been pretty off...

Thanks Steve. I will make a plan of action with my husband and focus on setting our future up for success. 

I cannot express how grateful I am for this site and this community, for your replies, and your best wishes. I have felt alone, frustrated, and judged to the point of questioning my own sanity in all this... in all these years. In my desperation I have asked how is it possible for me to be the one who is always wrong the one who lies about everything... it really pushed me to question my sanity and into a dark depression where I contemplated many times what the point of living was. Thankfully, I am not there any more. And this prospect of a different future is already shining light into my windows!

 This gives me peace to continue on the course my therapist and husband are aiding me towards. 

A million thanks from a heart that is grateful beyond words. :thanks:


----------



## Retired (Oct 29, 2014)

*Re: NPD Mother Advice Requested?!?*

Please keep us posted on your progress, and especially on the arrival of your baby.

Your own experience and insights would be valuable to other Psychlinks members, so feel free to join in other Forum discussions.


----------



## ricenbeans (Nov 10, 2014)

I am definitely still learning to deal with my situation in a more assertive format. I have been dedicating more time towards my spouse and the positive changes we have going on. We made the baby announcement to the family all together. Everyone was very happy and supportive. 
We, my husband and I, are making steps towards moving forward (moving out, baby plans, school, etc...).  
My mother seems to be acting like we never had this conversation about moving and has tried to be quite pleasant. This behavior will not sway the fact that we are moving out. Sorry, I haven't written... morning sickness has become an all day affair!

Thank you all for your best wishes and support! :thankyou2:


----------



## forgetmenot (Nov 11, 2014)

Hope morning sickness lessens soon and you and your husband  can get moved into your place before baby comes   so you will have a home of your own  hugs


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Nov 11, 2014)

Best wishes on your move to less stress (after the stress of moving, of course), being independent, but also being a good team with your husband.

That's what my David and I say all the time:  "We're a good team!"  *and then we high-five or do the fist-punch-kaboom*


----------

