# I thought women are much better than us, but they're much worse



## barrier

I had a great respect and love for my sister-in-law for 12 years. Was helping my brother and her countless times in all possible ways, and they were helping me as well. She was (i can freely say) my best friend, and i was the same to her. I considered her the most esteemed woman i ever met.

My last favor was finding her a job in a firm owned by an acquaintance of mine.

She has met him once, one year before the job. I knew what she'll say about him, because everybody who met him (or know him) says the same - the slimy person (everybody except his mother, but probably including his wife). Besides being (simply) slimy, he is a snob, conceited, skimpy, narcissistic ... One more thing, he is (naturally when his wife isn't present) very importunate towards women (it's very unpleasant to see his rude "actions" towards waitresses, for instance)

However he needed additional employee, my sis-in-law sought a job for awhile (they had bad financial situation) and i proposed ...

My first concern was, for how long will she endure working with such slimy person. My second concern was, will he attempt to approach her. Because that would be the end of her job for sure, and probably a slap in his face. I never ever ever thought that could be anything between them, not even for a millisecond, because they're different kinds of beings (human & slug-snail).

Well, she has worked there for 1.5 year, constantly (expected) negatively talking about him. 2 months ago they've left alone in the local office (one co-worker went to maternity leave, the second one got ill for longer, and she changed her attitude about him for 180 degrees.

To cut long story... They did it.

The tragedy is not she did it (she's just a human being), but did it with the person which she called "slimy".

Summary:

I proposed her to leave the job, and i'll be quiet. At first she accepted (although denied what i said and admitted one "kiss" with a delivery boy), then rejected, telling that she'll rather going to divorce than allow others to control her life.

I had no other choice but to tell.

She barely managed to convince my brother nothing happened (changed her mind about divorce). Tears, sedatives, emergency. She lost 8kg in a few weeks. My brother (99%) believed her not me (she admitted there was the sudden kiss by that boy some 5 months ago, he surprised her blah blah blah).

When i saw what are the effects of "1 sudden kiss" of some boy, i was frightened for her life if he starts to believe me about the romance with snail, and not that much because of my brother's reaction (he's not aggressive man). It is so disgusting, that i've had i fear she would simply drop dead if that comes out. When he told me he'll get her to polygraphic test, i had to change my story upside down - "I made a mistake", "I misunderstood" etc. That way i made a fool of myself (cannot go there anymore), my bro seems to hate me, she (naturally) hates me, cannot see the kids, the dog .......

And she has came back to the job or maybe to the "job" again.

Summary2:

I can't stand women anymore. When (in my view) the most respected one can do it with the snail, then anyone can do the same. Now i know, i have overestimated (idealized) her, but this is not of much help. I know she cannot be the proof that any woman would do it. But, i need a proof (which nobody can offer) that certain tangible percentage of them *wouldn't* do it.

I simply don't believe anymore. I repeat, i don't expect absolute fidelity, but at least following of its own criterion, or else for instance i could say "this woman is really disgusting" and next week have sex with her (?) I don't know a single man who would do something like that (unless he's heavily drunk). The accent here is on the word DISGUSTING, not bad, annoying, ugly, uninteresting person - but disgusting (oops and rich) one.

So, for the last month and a half, i have daily stomach pains, i'm refusing to see my girlfriends ("too busy"), get sick when see pretty woman (girl, whatever) on the street, refusing their "signals" with disgust, women's perfumes stink to me (really), ...

I don't ask for a way out (i don't think there is one, from this loop), i've just wrote this as a try to feel a little bit better. 
Maybe time is the answer - a very large amount. But i'll never be (and don't want to be) the same again.


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## Jazzey

Welcome to Psychlinks Barrier.

I'm sorry you went through all of this.  Tough situation, particularly since you want / wanted to protect your brother.  I get it.

Having said that, I'm a woman.  And I can assure you that i've never been unfaithful to the men that I had in my life, ever.  I have however been cheated on, on a few occasions.  Fortunately, that's really character / individual based.  It has nothing to do with the particular gender (thank goodness) .

It just means that we have to be more selective in choosing our partners.  And in this instance, your brother has to choose more selectively.  Of course, from what you've posted, it sounds as though he's chosen to stay with her.  Your job is done.  In your shoes, I'd stay away from this situation.  Let your brother figure things out for himself, as difficult as this may be...

When people are in love, they don't necessarily hear what we're telling them...Because it completely shifts their current reality.  You have to let your brother sort this one out.  It doesn't mean that you can't be honest with him when he seeks your advice, but it has to be solicited.  In my opinion at least.


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## David Baxter PhD

Uou shouldn't judge anybody, whether according to gender, color, religion, politics, or anything else, by the actions of one bad apple.

Your sister-in-law doesn't represent all women any more than Adolph Hitler represents all Germans or Tom Cruise represents all bad actors.


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## barrier

Jazzey said:


> It doesn't mean that you can't be honest with him when he seeks your advice, but it has to be solicited.


No, i cannot be honest with him anymore, because i'm frightened what could happen to her. She has lost 8kg because of the nonexistent kiss with nonexistent boy. With the truth on her neck, she would crash. I cannot be responsible for her life. Believe me, the truth is too ugly. 
I even had to inform her about his intention (bluff) to take her to the polygraph, and suggest her to clean up her mobile. Can you imagine my situation?
I can just hope this was too traumatic experience (for her & for slimy) to continue with slimy "business".

In return, she told me i should forget her number and go for "medical treatment". 
(She had to talk like that as a security measure, or else i could use this warning too against her.)

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David Baxter said:


> Your sister-in-law doesn't represent all women any more than Adolph Hitler represents all Germans or Tom Cruise represents all bad actors.


David, today i know that very well, BUT ....
This woman was of 100 pts to me, and i was wrong (and not consider myself dumb).

Anyway, could You please give me the proof that some substantial number of women WOULDN'T do the same, under appropriate circumstances? And i don't mean adultery but adultery with "slimy" (by her words).


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## Jazzey

I'm sorry Barrier, I'm not sure that I really understand the rest of the situation.  From what I've grasped here, I understood that she cheated on your brother with a co-worker.  But I'm not sure how she's in jeopardy.  Is is because she's lost so much weight?  Is it because you're afraid that your brother will do her harm if he were to find out the truth?

I will say this though - her "traumatic" experience should only be the result of her feeling poorly about her behaviours, and not for threats made to her about a polygraph test or otherwise.  To subject someone to threats, in any circumstances, is just wrong and could potentially really harm the recipient of those threats.  While cheating on a partner is never ok, idle threats should never be relied upon to force compliance - her not cheating should come solely from not wanting to cheat, from loving her partner enough to not want to expose him to that hurt - and not because she's fearful of any potential threat others have made against her.

Btw, I'm a firm believer that relationships with people should never be this complicated.  If your brother has any suspicion that she's been unfaithful, then let him rectify that relationship without recourse to threats.  No good will ever come from threatening people.


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## Yuray

You have placed this woman on such a high pedestal, how could anyone placed so high not let you down?

Your brother and she seem to be working things out to their own satisfaction, but apparently not to yours.

If you choose to judge all women on the responses of one who seemingly betrayed your trust and affection, your perception of things is flawed. 'Slimy' may only be slimy in your eyes. Knowing this, why would you recommend such a treasure in your life into his keeping? You said she was 100pts. to you. Why would you entrust her to someone with no points? The problem here may be one of counting and assigning points, not one of mistrust or betrayal.


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## barrier

Jazzey said:


> Is it because you're afraid that your brother will do her harm if he were to find out the truth?


No, he wouldn't do her any harm, but he'd be terrible disgusted (as i am now). That would be monumental embarrassment for her and monumental insult for him. Believe me, this is not a plain adultery. She would be strongly judged by all (and i mean ALL) friends and family, because with whom she did it. And considering she's lost so much weight, taking sedatives all the time, several paramedic visits etc and all this without the actual truth being revealed, i'm not sure could she survive it at all.

Secondly, i don't want to crash their marriage either. I told my brother about the problem, because she said she's going to divorce but don't want to leave the "job". Why (and how) to protect someone who decided to divorce. I've still just wanted to pull her out of that office, not to send her to her mother.
Later, she changed her mind about divorce, and so i had to change my story either, to became a fool to protect her.

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> You have placed this woman on such a high pedestal, how could anyone placed so high not let you down?


 Wrong 2 months ago, correct now.



> Your brother and she seem to be working things out to their own satisfaction, ..


 Satisfaction? My brother's logic unit (once brilliant) is apparently burned (i exactly know how she did it), so he refused to see the obvious (one of his doubts was "what kind of adultery it is at 1pm ?"). 



> 'Slimy' may only be slimy in your eyes.


 You apparently haven't read my post.
This word is mentioned much more times by her than by me, and also every living person who knows him has such opinion about him. This is the very problem of this "relationship". This is why i have stomach pain every day.



> If you choose to judge all women on the responses of one who seemingly betrayed your trust and affection, your perception of things is flawed.


 You probably also have certain most respected female person. How would you feel if you saw her with the most disgusting man you know? It wouldn't shake you up, at all? Good for you.



> Knowing this, why would you recommend such a treasure in your life into his keeping? ... Why would you entrust her to someone with no points?


 Yuray, she's not a sheep that i entrusted to someone into keeping. Exactly because of the difference in "points" i thought there's no the slightest need to think about it. And again, this is the reason why i have stomach sickness every day since.


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## Jazzey

I'm sorry to hear that this situation is making you physically sick Barrier.  Sounds like you're really anxious about it all.  At this point, I'm wondering if it isn't best for you to leave this situation to your brother and this woman.  Maybe take care of you for the next little while?

Also, I'll take this opportunity to comment on your response to Yuray - I would ask that you familiarize yourself with the forum rules here.  Particularly the rule about insensitivity to other members.  Forum Rules

I don't know if you intended it that way, but your response to Yuray seems quite defensive to me.  While we may sometimes disagree with another member on this forum, we encourage the members to do so with courtesy and respect.

Thank you for understanding this Barrier.


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## David Baxter PhD

barrier said:


> David, today i know that very well, BUT ....
> This woman was of 100 pts to me, and i was wrong (and not consider myself dumb).



Misjudging people - or being fooled by people - has nothing to do with being "dumb". Apparently, you put your faith in someone who did not deserve your trust and admiration. Sad, I know. But it happens to all of us sooner or later. The fault lies not in the person who trusts but in the person who betrays that trust. But it is not a reason to paint everyone with the same brush or to give up faith in humanity... or even in only one gender.

By your own statements, you are allowing the actions of this woman to sour ytour relationship with your girlfriend. That goes beyond sad. That is pure folly. 



barrier said:


> Anyway, could You please give me the proof that some substantial number of women WOULDN'T do the same, under appropriate circumstances? And i don't mean adultery but adultery with "slimy" (by her words).



What is a "substantial number"? And what does "appropriate circumstances" mean? I don't know the circumstances. And neither do you.

No one truly knows what it's like to be in a specific relationshop except the two people in that relationship. You may think you know your sister-in-law and your brother very well but you have absolutely no idea - and you never will have any idea - what it's like to be in their shoes.


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## white page

Hi Barrier,

You probably are feeling many confusing emotions at the moment.

One of the difficulties for you in this situation is that inadvertently you were
the one who helped this situation to come about.

Secondly you are feeling betrayed by your sister in law and your brother, when initially all you wanted to do was to be helpful.

What happens between couples belongs to the couple, there are areas of life 
where we cannot intervene, I see a lot of hurt people in your family, all hurt for different reasons.

I would keep back from the situation for a while. Let them sort their lives out.
Don't judge any one, being human is not a fault.  I know you are hurting because the status quo is upset, life does this to us. 

take care wp


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## white page

> Anyway, could You please give me the proof that some substantial number of women WOULDN'T do the same, under appropriate circumstances? And i don't mean adultery but adultery with "slimy" (by her words).



I need to say this to you Barrier, this could be seen as very offensive to the men and women on this forum.

I know you are hurting, but to say that you need proof that women in general would not jump at the opprtunity to go with one  particular man you know, and that adultery is worse with him than it is with some one else, is pushing logic towards a domain which is unknown to me.

Because you don't like and respect him, doesn't mean he is not likeable by others. Your sister in law is a grown woman, who made a very human mistake, maybe her hard working life lacks sparkle, and her dreams have been crushed by hardship, it is so human to be seduced by someone who pays attention to one.

Please don't pressurise her, her life belongs to her and her alone. Your brother's life belongs to him, and how he copes with a situation should be respected.

I know how gossip can get out of hand in a community and family and make life difficult for a member who has broken a 'rule".

The best thing for you to do is to be totally discreet and respect the privacy of your brother and his wife.

best wishes wp


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## barrier

Firstly, i've completely forgot to say i highly appreciate all of your replies.

Of course i'm out of this now. Out and punished. From the mentioned reasons i even had to change the "side", and in my last sms correspondence with brother i "admit" "i have understood i made the mistake", and i informed *her* about his intentions and possibilities to investigate this (because of his "1%" suspicion). 
And he told me "she'll never forgive you this" ("because" i mentioned that "kiss" and said it's just a smoke bomb). I know she must talk like that, but it's tearing me apart (what should she forgive me? - she said she'll divorce then changed her mind, so that i'm now the only one who's "divorced" from the family). God knows when (or will) i see the kids again.



> You probably are feeling many confusing emotions at the moment. One of the difficulties for you in this situation is that inadvertently you were the one who helped this situation to come about. Secondly you are feeling betrayed by your sister in law and your brother, when initially all you wanted to do was to be helpful.



Yes, this is the essence. 



> .. but to say that you need proof that women in general would not jump at the opprtunity to go with one particular man you know, and that adultery is worse with him than it is with some one else, is pushing logic towards a domain which is unknown to me .. Because you don't like and respect him, doesn't mean he is not likeable by others.



I didn't mean this, it would be way too silly. Maybe i didn't express myself clearly. That particular man is absolutely unimportant.

What i expect (expected, better said) from a woman is to not have romantic relationship (not sex, it could happen to everyone, especially with "alcohol's help") with someone she's called slimy, skimpy, conceited, snob etc etc etc .... for a good year and a half. 

Did i expect too much ?

I expected, when two left alone in the office and business trips for a month, his attention, jokes, favors (to her and children), "respect", fancy car, music, wine, ... IS NOT enough to fall in love! with somebody she called by all those names a couple of months before!

Too much expectations ? Now i think so.

This man, or if you more like such kind of men, respects women about like their mobile phones.(He was personally talking to me about his "accomplishments", like "there's not a woman who cannot be beep". He was talking to me about some "events" from his own bed, with his wife, by which i was embarrassed.)  And my beloved respected s-i-l falls on such an "operation"! And all this has been made possible by *me*.  It's tearing me apart. 

That's why i raised so much doubts about the gender in general. Maybe it's offensive, yes, but my trust is broken into a million pieces.


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## white page

Barrier , 

I do understand your anguish, use this as a learning experience, and believe me when I say that it will all settle down eventually. As I said be discreet for a while, let time heal things.



> with someone she's called slimy, skimpy, conceited, snob etc etc etc .... for a good year and a half.
> Did i expect too much ?


Yes I know this seems astonishing, human nature being what it is,  in certain circumstances dislike can turn to attraction however temporary.

I've seen this happen, and yes it is destabilizing.  However nobody knows what another person is living or what they are needing at any particular time, it is not for you to forgive her, show your respect and brotherly love to her and her husband by accepting their choices in life. 

What has happened has happened, no one is to blame.

best wishes wp


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## Jazzey

I agree with WP.  While I understand you're feeling guilty - you have nothing to feel guilty about in this situation. You did nothing wrong.  Your sister-in-law was the master of her own choices.  You were kind enough to find her employment.  No one could have anticipated that she would be unfaithful to your brother with the person who employs her. 

I hope that you can forgive yourself very soon Barrier - I honestly don't think you did anything wrong in this situation.  And I hope that your brother can also forgive you and see that your actions were driven by affection, no malice.

Now, I hope that you'll let your brother and his wife sort all of this on their own.  It is now entirely up to them.  You've done your best to bring the issue forward, you can't make people listen if they don't want to.


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## barrier

Im out of it now and permanently.

I feel like i finally have grew up (in my middle age). Where's Santa?

No, my friends, i don't like what i see in this newest world. Don't like at all.

Thanks to all who tried to help.


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## Jazzey

Take care of yourself Barrier.  This life isn't always so dark - it only gets dark if we allow to only see those dark streaks.  But amidst all that, there are also some really good people and some wonderful things - sometimes, we just have to put extra effort into focusing on these...

Take good care of yourself and I hope that this isn't a goodbye post Barrier.


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## white page

barrier said:


> Im out of it now and permanently.
> 
> I feel like i finally have grew up (in my middle age). Where's Santa?
> 
> No, my friends, i don't like what i see in this newest world. Don't like at all.
> 
> Thanks to all who tried to help.



Barrier, 
I can understand your despondancy, people haven't changed, from the earliest known accounts of human behaviour, there have always been situations very similar to the one within your family recently, only the tools of seduction have changed. Human behaviour hasn't.


 Things will calm down, try to focus on your own life and interests, may be take a little holiday, in order to see different horizons. 
What are your interests Barrier?

Take care wp


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## barrier

Yes, it should be the goodbye post.

It seems you don't quite understand the core of the problem.


> ..amidst all that, there are also some really good people and some wonderful things ..


 She was 'some really good people' amidst all that.

Aging is a process of decaying of our worlds. So much friends, girls, men, women, parents, children,  politicians, writers, artists ... who have disappointed us. An inevitable conclusion - the question is not will someone disappoint you, but only when will that happen, how big will it be, and how well you'll adapt to it. I was adapting more or less successfully till now. 

However, this valuable attitude wasn't applicable to her. A huge mistake, and a hole in the defense. The only but devastating one. Not a single girlfriend of mine hasn't disappointed me so hard, and there were those things.

So, the term "really good people" doesn't have a value any longer. Yes, "really good people" until a circumstances come, which will turn them into the people who "_haven't changed, from the earliest known accounts of human behavior_" 

What then we're looking for in our life - the best possible illusions.

You can admit it, you don't have to. Doesn't matter.


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## Jazzey

Barrier, I hope you won't mind my asking this question - why are you so invested in your brother's wife?  Yes, she disappointed you.  And yes, I'll even agree with you that people will, at times, disappoint us.  

But I'm just not sure that I understand why these disappointments, particularly the one with your sister-in-law, is affecting you this deeply...

Have you given any thought to that Barrier?  Do you have a reason why you're so wounded by this? (other than her behaviour with a person whom she previously completely disaffected).


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## barrier

If the question is, did i ever try to reach her, the answer is, no.
Does anything else matter?
Yes, we had a special relationship. Yes, we were a shoulder to cry on, to each other. Yes, she had a very special place in my life, as i had in her. We could tell anything to each other, about anyone and everything. When she'd cry my eyes was red too. She told me once, no one helped her in her life as i was.
But i never touched her.

And frankly i feel she (being with the lowest form of life, to which i served her) heavily betrayed me in the first place. And again frankly, if she did it with anyone else, i couldn't even tell it to my brother (and i have told him that openly). Yes it would be painful as well, but i couldn't do it (because it is questionable did my brother maybe deserve something like that). But this, this is devastating. Nobody deserves this. And i think it's the greatest humiliation to herself.


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## Jazzey

She did make a dreadful mistake Barrier.  From what you've posted above, I have the impression that she is fully aware of the impact of her poor decision.

But sometimes, people make bad mistakes barrier.  It doesn't "make them" bad people.  Just human. None of us are infallible.  For right now, I know that you're really in pain because of her recent actions.  A good friend of mine was unfaithful once.  I was extemely wounded because I would have sworn that she would never do that.  It made me question whether I had misjudged her.  With time, I was able to appreciate that it really didn't change who she was fundamentally.  It just meant that she fell prey to human frailties, as we all do sometimes - her's was being unfaithful. 

It took time for me to rebuild that friendship because of the doubts that it elicited in me about her character.  But I'm grateful every day that this friendship is back, that I have her back in my life and that she truly is the very person I thought she was - wonderful.  But at that particular time in her life, she made a bad decision.  We've since talked about it - her bad decision really stemmed from insecurity and being flattered by someone.

It's a choice we make Barrier - you can either continue to be hurt by this incident or, you can actually make a decision about where you go from here.  Do you want her back in your life?  Can you forgive her and accept that she made a mistake?  If you can't accept that she's made this mistake, are you prepared to never have her in your life to the extent that she was there before all of this?  

Sometimes, being a good friend engenders making your friend accountable for bad choices (and vice versa) and actually help them to not repeat the mistake - but accountability doesn't mean eternal punishment.  It means recognizing that we've done something wrong and ensuring that we don't do it again.  From what you've posted, I get the feeling that your sister-in-law is suffering, that she is prepared to not repeat this mistake....


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## barrier

I cannot blame you for not knowing the exact situation, on the contrary, i appreciate all of your replies.

The words "mistake", "poor decision", "incident", "bad choices", "human" ... unfortunately simply don't fit here, and i see them even more hurting. If this is human, than i'm not.



> I have the impression that she is fully aware of the impact of her poor decision.


 Maybe, maybe not. I only know she's back on the work, after 15 days of absence and phony "job firing". (To be honest, she didn't have much of choice, because if she didn't back she would thereby virtually admit what happened, otherwise how to explain leaving the work because of some silly kiss by someone who surprised her in a second.) 
Maybe it wont continue anymore (because of such a trauma), maybe it will someday (maybe already does), who could know?

Anyway, i'll try to explain the difference between a "mistake" and something for what i didn't find appropriate word so far, so i'll call it zzz.

If someone did it with someone lousy (by its own opinion), tomorrow (or a couple of days after) this one hates him even more, and can't regret it enough. This is Mistake.

If the same one suddenly start to admire the same subject, constantly retelling his jokes, favors, converting his flaws into virtues with shining face, for a month or so. This is Zzz. (and of course i'm not talking about evidences, they take to much typing.)

Please don't use mentioned words.

This is simple about catastrophic misjudging, and tells more of me than of her. For 12 years i didn't have an opportunity to see her in a real situation. Maybe David is right, maybe it's just about a bad apple, but i need  an unreachable proof. Now i'm bitter and cold about all women (although fully aware of the reasons).

Thank you


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## white page

Barrier,
 You talk about her almost as if she was your wife, if she was your wife I would understand much better the intense distress you are feeling, however she is your friend and friendship is unconditional. You might try to stop obsessing about this. 


> Now i'm bitter and cold about all women


 forgive me for saying this but this is really being extreme.
She isn't your wife and she hasn't been unfaithful to you. 
I am begining to feel not a little sorry for her, why don't just accept what has happened, it is not your role to ask her to justify herself.
Would you feel any better about her mistake if it had been with a man you liked and respected?

best wishes wp


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## barrier

As i've said so many times here, it's not about being unfaithful.



> Would you feel any better ...


*Incomparably*



> forgive me for saying this but this is really being extreme.


forgive me for saying this but, it's like that.


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## white page

Barrier,
 I don't want to get into a fight about this, but that means that all the wonderful kind ladies who have replied to your thread are worthless in your eyes.
How would you feel if this was written about all men?


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## barrier

I'm certainly not putting in question the qualities of the ladies here, and elsewhere. I've said i'm thankful for all of the replies.
I'm just talking about man/woman relationships.

Also, because of that friend, i'm now isolated and punished, forced to make fool of myself "admitting" i was wrong, in order to protect my friend's marriage *or maybe even life* ('cause she changed her mind about divorce in a day). 

This family was my asylum and relaxing place. Because of my friend's act, i can't see their kids anymore (can't help with school), i can't talk to my brother anymore (she keeps him away, because she has a panic-fear of what i could say again), i can't walk the poor dog anymore (i was the only one who did it). Probably the most part of the family considers me *****. All this because of the unconditional friendship. 
Ok i'll carry that cross, but please don't push me more than necessary.


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## Yuray

barrier said:


> Because of my friend's act, i can't see their kids anymore (can't help with school), i can't talk to my brother anymore (she keeps him away, because she has a panic-fear of what i could say again), i can't walk the poor dog anymore (i was the only one who did it). Probably the most part of the family considers me *****. All this because of the unconditional friendship.



It was your act that brought these losses on you, not your friends. Your 'conscience' has caused perhaps unrepairable damage. Are there any religious reasons for your actions?


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## barrier

What my act? Would you please tell me where precisely do you see my mistake. Please.

If you learned of such an inconceivable act of your sis in law would you propose her to leave the job (which she got thanks to you) and you're not going to tell your brother?
This, she firstly accepts, and a couple of days later refuses, decisively telling that she wont allow others (me & my brother) to control her life, and she's rather going to divorce.
Then you'd say: "_Oh, ok then, carry on. Sorry for disturbing you, it's not my business. Don't worry, he'll never know._"


> Are there any religious reasons for your actions?


 ?

Well Yuray, would you please finally tell me what are you talking about here. I'd just want to know.

Thanks

p.s.
And Jazzey, you have said before you didn't see my single mistake. Did you change your mind, as well?


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## Jazzey

I don't think you made a mistake in getting her the job Barrier.  I don't think you made a mistake in trusting her and liking her either.  So, no - I haven't changed my mind.

I think where we're all a little dumbfounded Barrier, or at least me in any event, is why this is your business.   Honestly, if this had happened in my life, I would tell my brother.  And what he did with the information afterwards would be entirely up to him. But at least I wouldn't have to ever regret not telling him.  But I wouldn't resort to striking deals with her - "leave your job or I'll tell".  

I won't pretend to speak on behalf of Yuray, but I understood his question from this vantage point:  having religious beliefs would explain this extreme viewpoint that you've taken on this matter.  A matter which, frankly, is out of your hands.  It's truly between the couple.

And I agree with Yuray on the following point too:  you're not seeing the children or walking the dog - that's your decision.  This is a marital issue Barrier.  Your role should now be limited to being the caring and supportive sibling...to your brother.  

While I don't believe that you've made a mistake Barrier, your reactions to this situtation (based on what you've posted) and whatever actions you decide to take from here could very well result in an irreversible mistake.  Do you really want to be out of your brother's life?  Do you really want to be out of the lives of your nieces and nephews?  Give your brother and his wife the time and space they need to resolve this issue for themselves.


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## David Baxter PhD

barrier said:


> Also, because of that friend, i'm now isolated and punished, forced to make fool of myself "admitting" i was wrong, in order to protect my friend's marriage *or maybe even life* ('cause she changed her mind about divorce in a day).
> 
> This family was my asylum and relaxing place. Because of my friend's act, i can't see their kids anymore (can't help with school), i can't talk to my brother anymore (she keeps him away, because she has a panic-fear of what i could say again), i can't walk the poor dog anymore (i was the only one who did it). Probably the most part of the family considers me *****.





Yuray said:


> It was your act that brought these losses on you, not your friends.





barrier said:


> What my act? Would you please tell me where precisely do you see my mistake.



I can't and won't try to speak for Yuray but I think he's right. You made a unilateral decision to take action on your perception that your sister-in-law had violated trust. Interestingly, it appears that her violation of *your* trust seems more significant to you than her violation of anyone else's trust. And the fact that *you* feel wronged and humiliated and that *your* ideals have been violated is more important than anything else. Once you made your unilateral decision, there was a consequence, as you should have expected. You wanted a different consequence and you hoped that it would affect her, not you, but you cannot make decisions for your brother or your sister-in-law or anyone else - you can only make decisions for yourself.

And now, to compound that error, you are allowing this to negatively affect your own relationship, giving your girlfriend the message in essence that what you think and how you feel about your sister-in-law is more important than any relationship you might have had with her. I can only think that it is fortunate for your girlfriend that she learned this about you now, not later when she had expended more time and effort on the relationship or, worse, when it got to the point where children might have been involved.


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## Yuray

Barrier

You have adapted an attitude of defiance, defensiveness, challenge, and outright rudeness. These forums are to deal with resolving issues, not arguments. When you continuously challenge all that is said, it appears as though you are making the resolution of your problem our problem. It isn't our problem. It is yours, and primarily your own making, despite your insistence on blaming all but yourself. You have been shown patience, kindness, sympathy, and it is now degrading to intolerance for some. We have offered our best. You simply have to understand that we don't have any more answers. I wish we did, for your pain is obvious.

(I was writing this reply as Dr Baxter was posting his, but he has made some *very* impacting points)
The word barrier means an obstacle or impediment.


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## barrier

I think that every statement should be supported by corresponding logic and appropriate argumentation or else discussion doesn't have much sense.

Interesting how Yuray doesn't sound challenging when says "_It was your act that brought these losses on you, not your friends. Your 'conscience' has caused ..._" and when i ask which specific act, and what precisely would he do, i get the answer that i'm defiant and rude.
I'm just asking what you would do in my place Yuray (leave my pain aside for a second, and whether it's right or not). That way i could analyze my possible mistake.



> I think where we're all a little dumbfounded Barrier, or at least me in any event, is why this is your business. Honestly, if this had happened in my life, I would tell my brother. And what he did with the information afterwards would be entirely up to him. But at least I wouldn't have to ever regret not telling him. But I wouldn't resort to striking deals with her - "leave your job or I'll tell"..


 Jazzey, i'm not quite sure i understand. If it's ok to tell, how come this is not my business? Isn't it a bit contradictory? If you by this mean it's not my business what happens after, i told for many times here, that I'M OUT OF THAT now. I had to tell him because i had no other choice (she told me she will rather divorce than allow ...). She later changed her mind about divorce. When i heard the devastating effects to her, i was forced to change my story and "admit" i was wrong. Now i'm isolated. What exactly here is not my business *please*?



> And I agree with Yuray on the following point too: you're not seeing the children or walking the dog - that's your decision ....Do you really want to be out of the lives of your nieces and nephews?


 That really hurts. Don't you realize that i can't show up there without some kind of invitation? And this invitation i can't get because she has a fear and shame of me. My brother firstly said "it takes time for this to be settled down" and afterwards "i think she'll never forgive you this". He doesn't contact me at all, for 3 weeks now, and you're saying it's my decision? It really hurts.



> It's truly between the couple.......Give your brother and his wife the time and space they need to resolve this issue for themselves.


 Don't get me wrong but i don't know how many times i must say i have no influence, nor any contact, nor any other information about them for about 3 weeks now. Please understand - i'm isolated.



> You made a unilateral decision to take action on your perception that your sister-in-law had violated trust.


 Excuse me David, what _unilateral_ does mean? Didn't i give her the choice? Didn't she mentioned divorce? What were my alternatives? What would you do? And it's not about perception but about evidences.



> Interestingly, it appears that her violation of your trust seems more significant to you than her violation of anyone else's trust.


 That's correct. There are reasons for that, but unpleasant to talk about. I touched it in one of my posts. However the main (as far as i'm concerned) problem isn't what, but with whom.



> You wanted a different consequence and you hoped that it would affect her, not you, ..


 You really mean i *wanted* anything at that time? I was psychologically crashed, and with no alternatives. If there was one, please tell me. She mentioned divorce, i thought the marriage is over. I didn't want anything let alone hoped something. 

As for my girlfriend - i have girlfriends without obligations. It was good enough to me, and for them either.



> You have adapted an attitude of defiance, defensiveness, challenge, and outright rudeness.


 Is that the answer to my kind question where i made the mistake and more important, what you would do in my place?



> When you continuously challenge all that is said, it appears as though you are making the resolution of your problem our problem. It isn't our problem.


 How did you conclude that i expected anyone to resolve my problem? I expected just a word of comprehension, but instead got the artillery barrage. Yet nobody gives me the clear answer, where is my mistake, and what you would do in my place?

White page:


> I am begining to feel not a little sorry for her


 just tell me what should i do, what would you do ?


> why don't just accept what has happened, it is not your role to ask her to justify herself.


 Have i ever said i ask her anything? I lied for her, i'm isolated now, she's back where she was before.
Satisfied? 

Thank you all


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## David Baxter PhD

I don't think there's any more to say, personally, barrier. You came here looking for advice. You've been given lots of that and you've been given perspectives different from your own - and you've rejected both.

What you do with all of this is up to you. 

I'm have nothing further to say in this thread.


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## Yuray

ditto


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