# Bath Salts = schizophrenia?



## GDPR (Mar 30, 2012)

My son was heavy into bath salts. He consumed very large quantities over a span of a few months. To make a long story short, he didn't sleep for 18 days straight and is now is prison for his criminal activity during the time he was using.

He has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. My question is, can bath salts cause permanent psychosis? Or is it more likely that the bath salts brought out something that was already there to begin with? He had no signs of schizophrenia before he began using the bath salts.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2012)

*Re: Bath Salts=schizophrenia?*



> Or is it more likely that the bath salts brought out something that was already there to begin with?



Especially, I assume, if mental illness runs in his family.


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## David Baxter PhD (Mar 30, 2012)

*Re: Bath Salts=schizophrenia?*

It could be either. Even a drug-induced psychosis can be "permanent", although not all are.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2012)

How long has your son been in prison (where he is less likely to be using substances)? Do you know how frequent his psychotic episodes are now?  I assume they are less intense now, at least.

Some background info:

“If you take the worst attributes of meth, coke, PCP, LSD and ecstasy and put them together,” he said, “that’s what we’re seeing sometimes.” 

Adverse effects reported among the 205 users of mephedrone

Clinical  experience with and analytical confirmation of "bath salts" and "legal  highs" (synthetic cathinones) in the United States  ("Clinical effects...including psychotic episodes often requiring sedation, movement disorders, and tachycardia.")

Substance-induced psychosis

Regarding another substance, meth:



> Courts need to know...that _methamphetamine psychosis_ or methamphetamine-related violence persists for _months_ after abstinence and can be triggered by substances other than methamphetamine to include alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, opiates, and even caffeine.
> 
> Methamphetamine use: clinical and forensic aspects - Sandra B. McPherson, Harold V. Hall, Errol Yudko - Google Books



Since you seem to have had some experience with bath salts yourself, you have some intuition about the short-term effects already:

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/addictiv...showing-up-in-emergency-rooms.html#post188237

However, the long-term effects of bath salts are relatively unknown.


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## GDPR (Mar 30, 2012)

Daniel said:


> Since you seem to have had some experience with bath salts yourself



I don't have experience with bath salts. I have never tried it. I have tried the synthetic marijuana before though, but these are 2 completely different things.

My son has been in prison for about 6 or 7 months and was just recently diagnosed. He doesn't have psychotic 'episodes'. He wasn't the same after he started doing the bath salts. He said there was no other drug like it, that it was THE most intense he had ever done. He went into his own little reality or something. It changed everything about him; his looks(of course), his personality, everything. He started hallucinating and thought people were chasing him, to kill him. He shot at people that weren't there. He was psychotic.

 Some of his friends aren't the same anymore either. I do believe the bath salts did permanent damage to all of them. But I'm not sure,since he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. My husband's brother is schizophrenic, that's why I'm wondering if the drug brought out what was already there or if bath salts really can cause permanent psychosis.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2012)

> I don't have experience with bath salts. I have never tried it.



Sorry.   I was probably experiencing information overload. 



> My son has been in prison for about 6 or 7 months and was just recently diagnosed.



Yeah, that doesn't sound good since it seems he has been drug-free (of the harmful/recreational drugs) for a while.


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## GDPR (Mar 30, 2012)

Daniel said:


> Yeah, that doesn't sound good



Not exactly sure what you mean....


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2012)

Well, I just mean if it was just a week or month ago or so when he stopped taking bath salts, then -- just from what I have been reading -- I would expect more of a change for the better (sooner than later).  But since it has been 7+ months, a diagnosis of schizophrenia doesn't seem unreasonable at all -- regardless of what the precipitating factors were:



> Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological  and social processes appear to be important contributory factors; some  recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia



Is he on antipsychotics now or is he refusing medication?

BTW:



> Primary psychiatric causes of psychosis include the following:[10][11][12]
> 
> schizophrenia and schizophreniform disorder
> affective (mood) disorders, including severe depression, and severe depression or mania in bipolar disorder (manic depression). People experiencing a psychotic episode in the context of depression may experience persecutory or self-blaming  delusions or hallucinations, while people experiencing a psychotic  episode in the context of mania may form grandiose delusions.
> ...


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## GDPR (Mar 30, 2012)

Daniel said:


> regardless of what the precipitating factors were.



Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter now anyway, finding out whether it was the bath salts or not wouldn't change his condition.

Yes he's on antipsychotics now,along with  a couple of other things.


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## Daniel (Mar 30, 2012)

Similarly:



> _ Evidence that the symptoms are better accounted for by a Psychotic  Disorder that is not substance induced might include the following: the  symptoms precede the onset of the substance use (or medication use);* the  symptoms persist for a substantial period of time (e.g., about a month)  after the cessation of acute withdrawal or severe intoxication*, or are  substantially in excess of what would be expected given the type or  amount of the substance used or the duration of use; or there is other  evidence that suggests the existence of an independent non-substance  induced Psychotic Disorder (e.g., a history of recurrent  non-substance-related episodes)
> 
> 
> _Symptoms of Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder - Schizophrenia Schizoaffective Online - Symptoms, Treatments, Resources


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## GDPR (Mar 31, 2012)

So, from what I have been reading, if it was indeed the bath salts, there's a possibility that he may eventually be ok.....or maybe not.

It's pretty scary to know kids are snorting/injecting/smoking something that may contain things like comet cleanser(the bath salts he did had comet in it). I have never seen the behavior my son had with any other drug, and I have seen people shoot heroin, do pcp, coke,and just about every other drug there is. In my opinion, bath salts is THE worst thing there is.


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## Daniel (Mar 31, 2012)

Regarding meth since there is more info about it than bath salts:



> What explains the link between meth and schizophrenia? Dr. Stephen Kish, head of the center's human brain lab, said in the statement that one possibility was that repeated use of meth triggers latent schizophrenia by sensitizing the brain to dopamine. A brain chemical (neurotransmitter), dopamine is involved in motivation, pleasure, and reward - and is thought to be associated with mental illness.
> 
> Methamphetamine tied to schizophrenia: What explains link? - HealthPop - CBS News





> "We really do not understand how these drugs might increase schizophrenia risk," co-investigator Stephen Kish, MD, senior scientist and head of the Human Brain Laboratory at CAMH, said in a release."
> 
> Perhaps repeated use of methamphetamine and cannabis in some susceptible individuals can trigger latent schizophrenia by sensitizing the brain to dopamine, a brain chemical thought to be associated with psychosis."
> 
> ...


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