# Tough Time



## healthbound

I'm going through a tough time and I'm not sure how to best ride it out.

I feel unstable and unpredictable and that scares me. I feel angry and embarrassed that I keep returning to suicide as an option. I feel even more embarrassed to talk about it because my sister took her life and I know how upsetting the entire subject is. I also feel guilty that I would even have these thoughts/feelings/desires. I have a son who I love very much and I can't seem to make any sense about why I would even consider such a disturbing option knowing how important he and his development is to me.

I also feel very conflicted about posting this. I want to talk about it because I want to move through it, but I don't want to be a freak or have people stop being supportive of me. What I do want is to acknowledge how sad I feel and work through it without turning to such a destructive and permanent way of coping with it.

Sorry to be such a downer and thanks for reading.


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## ThatLady

Personally, I'm glad you have posted this. We're here to share the good times AND the bad times, healthbound. If this is a bad time for you, perhaps sharing it will make it less difficult in some ways. We often find that others have dealt with similar problems, and have very similar feelings. Sometimes, they may have found ways to cope that we haven't even thought about! We get to learn, and others get to share. It's a win-win situation.


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## foghlaim

Dear HB, TL is right and if i remember correctly you've said as much to other members here. It is okay to talk about this subject with us, if not us then with whom?? we're your friends here and we are here to support each other thru thick and thin.



> I also feel guilty that I would even have these thoughts/feelings/desires.


 I could have sworn that you are human HB, and being human, I for one know what it is like to have these thoughts\feelings ect.. It is not a nice space tobe in , and i'm sorry you are having such a tough time of it. You are NOT a freak! Can Isuggest you drop the guilty feeling for a start okay. you have nothing to feel guilty about. Unless of course you are guilty of being human and we are all in that boat with you ok. 

Coping with these fellings \thoughts ect is very hard and i don't believe can be done on your own, I couldn't do it on my own. I too came here and received such wonderful support and advice and also spoke to my therapist ect, and i'm still here TG.  
Can you ring your doc tomorow? or your therapist?? or even talk to Dr. B here thru pm or email? have you got some emergency numbers you can ring if all the above gets too overwhelming for you?? 
and Yes do think of your son, the thoughts of him being without his mother i'm sure will help keep you from doing anything destructive.

and HB.. you don't have to make any sense of why you are having suicidal thoughts, just accept that you are, (you have i think anyway) and acknowledge where your'e at.  depression gives us no reason for thinking\feeling like we do, all we can do is recognise it (which u have done) and look for support and help as we go thru it.
I hope you can talk to your doc or therapist soon, and that you will keep talking to us here.
Thank you for posting the above, i realise it was a very hard decision to make but you made it and i hope it helped in some small way to post it.

feel better soon HB.
thinking of you

nsa


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## foghlaim

sorry that reply is so long. didn't realise it till ihad posted it..

feel free to edit it if necessary..

nsa


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## Into The Light

hi healthbound, i can totally relate to everything you have written. i was having thoughts of suicide too but was scared to talk about it, scared to push the people i love away if i talked about it. at first i could deal with it because i wasn't serious, it was just thoughts of what if, and how. i actually had a way of doing it too, and that was very upsetting to me, but for some reason i could not get rid of the item even when i thought things were going better.

things got worse and to a point where i just couldn't deal with my situation anymore. it got very scary. what made me feel the most hopeless of all was the thought that if i gave in to my thoughts that my children would grow up without me, and that they would end up going through all the pain i am going through. it would make me the worst mother in the world and ruin their lives. instead of my children giving me hope it just seemed to make me more frantic. i felt like i had no way out no matter how bad things got, because of my responsibility to care for them. i don't know if this is how you feel. it was big guilt for me and it did not help.

in the end i had a very good talk with people at the hospital and it really helped me a lot. i've gotten past my crisis and the guilt and shame of having the thoughts i was having. i also have some friends that stuck by me when i felt i was losing all control over my thoughts and actions. i did not think people would care enough to do that, i just felt like i was some kind of crazy person. to have people stick by me no matter what has helped enormously.

please don't feel guilty or embarrassed. this is all part of the disease. our brains are not working like they should be. when i couldn't deal with things anymore, they told me the brain is like a computer and that it just crashed. you're just dealing with a computer that has some kind of virus and is acting a little out of whack.

find people you can talk to that won't judge you. i know this can be very scary and you may run into people who can't support you. don't take that personally. some people do not know how to react, i probably wouldn't have either had i not gone through depression myself. not their fault, nor yours.

i guess the big thing is talk talk talk and tell people how frightening this is and how it makes you feel. get it out, it makes it less scary and it also lets people help you deal with it.

take care and keep posting here, we're here for you.


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## Retired

Healthbound,

The best thing you could have done was to share your feelings and reach out to your friends. Losing your sister to suicide must have been an unimaginable tragedy.

Your love for your son is your strongest reason for living, and would be the reason for contacting a local crisis line to be pointed to a resource where you can get some support and counselling to get you through this difficult time.

Do you have a local resource you can contact?


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## ^^Phoenix^^

healthbound  said:
			
		

> I feel even more embarrassed to talk about it because my sister took her life and I know how upsetting the entire subject is. I also feel guilty that I would even have these thoughts/feelings/desires. I have a son who I love very much and I can't seem to make any sense about why I would even consider such a disturbing option knowing how important he and his development is to me.
> 
> I also feel very conflicted about posting this. I want to talk about it because I want to move through it, but I don't want to be a freak or have people stop being supportive of me.



Hi HB
Talking about this must be hard for the people around you, having lost you sister. However, do you feel that there is no-one that would want to hear from you feeling like this? Perhaps if people in your family knew how you were feeling, your sisters memory would shock them into helping you as much as they could? I am glad that your son is a reminder of the people that need you here. When I have suicidal thoughts, guilt is often the reason that I don't go through with it. And while, at the time it makes me feel worse... I'm still here. But you should know that you son isn't the only one that wants you here. You are very cared for on this forum. I know this is a difficult concept because we only ever type to one another, but, the compassion that you have shown in your posts to others shows us what a fantastic person you are. Which brings me to you last point. It is a valid feeling when your feeling like you are, to believe that people will judge you harshly. We arn't. You haven't in the past, and most of the posters here on the forum *know *(actually know) how you are feeling. We care about you and I hope you are getting through this.
-Robin


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## just mary

Hi HB,

I'm truly sorry that you're going through such a tough time but I'm glad that you came here and told us about it. And I don't think you're a freak, that's one of the things this forum does, it shows that many of our feelings are shared by others, that we're not odd and we're not alone. We're all here for you HB, just like you've been here for everyone else.

One of my first suggestions would be to call someone, maybe a good friend whom you can trust and would be willing to be there for you - whenever you needed them to. (I know people like that are pretty rare but they do exist - I've known one or two.) You could also call a professional therapist or a family doctor and speak with them. I think my main point here is to just talk to someone. 

What about talking with your son or a close family member? Just letting them know that you're going through a really tough time. I sometimes wish my own Mum would talk to me more about what she's feeling. Sometimes she seems so down and I would like to be able to help but she never acknowledges it - she's big into that "stiff, upper lip" thing. I just want to be there for her since she has _always_ been there for me. I know she's human and that she feels pain too.

And I understand the feelings of guilt when you have thoughts like this, I've had them too. And I really hope I'm not saying the wrong thing but I think these feelings of guilt help us get through these low times. And once we get help and get past them, these feelings of guilt are replaced by better feelings, feelings that make us happy to be alive. 

Anyway HB, thanks for posting and I hope to hear from you soon.

Take care,


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## Rosa

((((healthbound)))) I'm so sorry to hear that your having hard times... but I'm very glad to see your writing about. As you can see by the posts so far, people really do care and want you to be able to express yourself. 
As you may know, I too feel suicidal sometimes and I don't necessarly know why other than feeling completely overwhelmed. I also know how frustrating this can be. I know it must be extra hard for you knowing that your sister killed herself and not wanting to bring up hard feelings for others, but believe me they would want to know. And if they don't want to know, we do. 
The important thing is that you talk to someone who can help you sort through this. I know what its like and it hurts soooo much, but your right-your son needs you...just like my dogs have needed me. 
Take care my friend and were here for you.
Lots of safe hugs
Rosa


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## Holly

healthbound  said:
			
		

> I'm going through a tough time and I'm not sure how to best ride it out.
> 
> I feel unstable and unpredictable and that scares me. I feel angry and embarrassed that I keep returning to suicide as an option. I feel even more embarrassed to talk about it because my sister took her life and I know how upsetting the entire subject is. I also feel guilty that I would even have these thoughts/feelings/desires. I have a son who I love very much and I can't seem to make any sense about why I would even consider such a disturbing option knowing how important he and his development is to me.
> 
> I also feel very conflicted about posting this. I want to talk about it because I want to move through it, but I don't want to be a freak or have people stop being supportive of me. What I do want is to acknowledge how sad I feel and work through it without turning to such a destructive and permanent way of coping with it.
> 
> Sorry to be such a downer and thanks for reading.



Dear healthbound,
I personally think posting in the forum is important. You have feelings that you need to express. Do you think your being hard on yourself? I sometimes think I am being hard on myself, I may not even have a reason. It does bring conflict and guilt when I feel that way. I sometimes write down my feelings, find something I enjoy doing to help me remember, I have nothing to be shameful off. I am doing my best. Even if the bad day is really a downer, like a double downer if you know what I mean! I found if I had those days I would be extra kind to myself, not judging myself all the time, reflecting on something that I enjoyed made me feel better.  I know I had other options, there for me to utilize. I hope this is helpful, we all find our unique ways to cope. Take care


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## healthbound

^^Phoenix^^  said:
			
		

> Talking about this must be hard for the people around you, having lost you sister. However, do you feel that there is no-one that would want to hear from you feeling like this? Perhaps if people in your family knew how you were feeling, your sisters memory would shock them into helping you as much as they could?



Ya, one would think. You've actually hit the nail on the head in terms of exactly what I think is challenging me so much right now.

My dad and his wife know I've been battling these feelings. I had a phone conversation with my dad a few weeks ago that was extremely disturbing to me. He thinks I'm a "con artist" and a "hustler". Over the past year and a half they have both suggested (more than once) that I'm "making all this up". My dad does NOT want to help me financially until my PWD or Short Term Leave kicks in again and after my telling him that I felt very sad and confused by that his response was, "Do you think you should just be able to call me up anytime you want, ask for money and I should just write a check?".

I feel very confused and extremely sad about their heavily distorted perception of me. I also believe that they probably prefere that I were dead. I'm not being mellow dramatic...I'm being sincere. That is the big component of my going through this "tough time" right now.

My challenge is to let my relationship with them go, but not accept their perception as my reality. I know in my heart that I'm a good person. I also know in my heart that I've been working hard on my depression (and other health issues). But they don't see that...they see someone they most likely needed to "make up" so that they could avoid their own reality (that I BATTLE depression and that I'm not making it up and that I am able to function normally more often than not...but when I'm not...I get debilitated. My sister already took her life, so I'm assuming they KNOW I'm not just screwing around here (ie: idle threats). I'm very serious.

The fact is my dad's wife has to believe the distortions too...otherwise how could she continue to stay committed to such a blatent jerk. If they want to live in their bubble, so be it. Now, I just have to figure out how to not let it get to me. Afterall, they are my parents and I ultimately do want them to love and accept me. Even support me.

Awk. I'm rambling. And blaming. I'm angry and horribly sad. I hate how I feel and it's hard to remember that feelings will pass. I don't feel "right" (I mean I feel like something's really wrong). I'm sure I sound like I'm in a lake of self pitty and am being really dramatic, but it seems to be where i'm at.

You may have noticed that I still feel extremely crappy. I'm really feeling challenged with this right now.


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## Rosa

(((healthbound))) Unfortunately, sometimes are parents are not the best for us and the best thing we can do is to accept that and go on. I know its hard, I've been there. I just don't like seeing you hurt further by their responses. 
I'm still here and you can write all you want and I will be here. 
In friendship
Rosa


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## healthbound

Thanks Rosa.

And thank you to everyone. I cried when I read all the responses.

I feel like I can't "shake it" off or something. I feel stuck.

I feel really sad and extremely uncomfortable. I would like to feel more "grounded", but I don't. I just feel extreme discomfort.

I also feel angry about even feeling like this. I don't like how I feel immobilized by it. I wish I could still "move" while feeling like this.

I started reading a book called Constructive Living a while back. I think I'll read some of it tonight. It's a book by David Reynolds who took 2 different Eastern psychologies and "westernized" them. Anyway, as far as I can tell, Constructive Living is about feeling and thinking everything, but continuing to DO anyway. So be as you are, but continue to work and/or be active. Maybe that'll help me.

Thanks again, I wish I wasn't feeling like this, but I am. I know it's a drag. I hope I "snap" out of it soon.

PS ---- I'm on 300mg of effexor...why do I still feel suicidal? Is that normal?


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## healthbound

Oh ya...my son is going away for 7 days. He's leaving tomorrow. I'm very nervous about this. Maybe I should go to the hospital when he's gone. That would give me an opportunity to go there without him knowing and I know I'd be "safe" from myself. Sounds rediculous that I'd even need to protect myself from myself. Stupid.


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## ThatLady

Let's try looking at a possibility:

You know how badly you're feeling after your sister's untimely death, healthbound. Something like that really hits you hard, and the feelings you have...the things you think and do...often aren't what you'd be feeling, thinking, or doing if such a horrific thing hadn't happened.

The same may be true for your parents. Here's why: When one's child is diagnosed with depression (by child, I mean offspring of any age) the first thing a parent does is blame him/herself. The first question that parent asks is: "Where did I go wrong?"

People deal with self-doubt and self-blame in different ways. Some will confront it head-on, and either get help or endeavor to deal with it in a proactive manner themselves. On the other hand, some people will board a boat down the river of denial. These people refuse to face the situation at all. There is no depression. There's no such thing. If my child is depressive, I've failed and that just CAN'T be. Therefore, I must believe that it's all a hoax or face my own possible culpability. There's no grey area for these people. It's all or nothing. I'm at fault or depression doesn't exist. In the case of your parents, with one child already the victim of suicide due to depression, they're rowing that boat for all they're worth...and getting nowhere. If you look at it that way, their predicament is even worse than yours.

At least, you're making sense of what's occured and working toward dealing with your feelings and making sure that you take care of your own depressive tendencies so as not to repeat your sister's sad actions. While realizing the above won't, perhaps, make it any easier, it might help you to understand what could be happening here. There's the possibility that with time, when the grief has been thoroughly dealt with and the boat can finally come to shore, your parents will be better able to deal with all that's gone on in a healthy, forward-looking way. Some make it to this point, and some don't. For you, the most important thing you must do is to take care of you. Make sure you're doing all you can for yourself, within and without. We cannot ever make someone love us. Some people cannot love. However, we can always love ourselves and work toward being the best person we can be. That, in itself, makes us loveable.

You have a right to be angry. You have a right to feel sad. The things that have happened in your life are deserving of those feelings. The important thing is, if you feel you cannot control those feelings, the hospital might not be a bad idea. You can get help there, and there will be people who can help you see the whole picture.

Whatever you decide, we're with you all the way. You have our love, our understanding, and our respect, healthbound.


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## healthbound

I believe the possibility you've described is, in fact, what is going on.

My cognitive mind can grasp the situation and make some sense of it while the emotional part of me is seriously struggling. Or maybe it's not even cognitive vs emotional. Maybe it's more adult vs child. I don't know. I have a difficult time accepting hime (and them). I feel really angry that I get the "brunt" of their lack of acceptance. And then I get even angrier that I allow myself to be affected by them so much.

I KNOW in my bones that I am a good person...a kind person, an intelligent person, a good mom, a funny woman etc. I KNOW that I live my life trying to "do the right thing".

Then, how come a few comments by my father or his wife seem to be able to knock me flat on my butt? I don't like that. I don't want to take on their perception of me. And I don't want to be like them either.

I'm going through the difficult process of letting go of the last immediate family member. I'm letting go of my "wish" about him and them (about how we're this happy family and that they actually care about me). It's just not so. They are who they are and I am who I am. But, let's face it...it's horribly sad to know that he doesn't actually care about me. Or that he's able to turn off all his emotions. I wish I could turn off my emotions. And I actually did for quite some time. But, it doesn't seem to work for me the same way it does for him. So be it.

I feel happy about the relationship that I have with my mom (even though it's literally ONLY through e-mail). I greatly miss my relationship with my sister. I wished for a relationship with my dad, but I can't seem to maintain my self respect becasue I can't build and maintain a hard enough shell to continue to endure the comments and blatent bullcrap. I don't want to be their scape goat. I have enough of my own problems.

But now I'm really alone and I feel pretty sad about that. And I also feel concerned about it ... knowing that I go through serious depressive periods. I'm in the process of setting things up so that when I fall/crash, I can still meet our most basic needs. But, it's not quite there yet. I just have to hold out for a while longer.


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## ThatLady

Your emotions are fragile right now, healthbound; therefore, they're harder to control and keep in perspective. That's completely understandable. You're still working through the process of grieving your sister's loss.

I don't think it's so much that your father doesn't care about you as that he can't seem to find a way to manage his own feelings about what's happened, so he's living in denial and shutting out any possibility of culpability on his part (as he sees it), and any possibility that you might be depressive, too. That sets him up for another loss, in his mind, and he's not ready to deal with it. Just as your emotions are in turmoil, so his are, as well.

I don't know your dad, so I can't say for sure whether he's the type that will work his way through this, or if he's one of the ones who will always be adrift. If the latter is true, you need to make your own way and realize that while he's your father, he's not you and you are not him. You can care about him without turning yourself over to him. If he and his wife can't refrain from making hurtful remarks, it's probably best to put them on a back burner for the time being and let them simmer there. They'll either become a delicious "soup", or they'll just remain a boiling mass of ugly. It's up to them. You can't make things happen for them, only for you.

You're not alone. As you said, you have a good e-mail relationship with your mother. You have us here. Most of all you have yourself and your own inner strength. This is certainly a time of concentrated strength-building. While those times are difficult, they're also rewarding in that we gain much from them...all of which becomes apparent down the road.

Getting a handle on your own depression must be your first priority. Anything that makes that more difficult must be removed from the equation until you're healthy and strong. It's not as though you're rejecting your father totally. It's just that, right now, he's a negative influence you don't need. Later on, perhaps, you'll be better able to assess the situation and see if he's a person you want in your life at all.


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## healthbound

ThatLady  said:
			
		

> Getting a handle on your own depression must be your first priority. Anything that makes that more difficult must be removed from the equation until you're healthy and strong. It's not as though you're rejecting your father totally. It's just that, right now, he's a negative influence you don't need. Later on, perhaps, you'll be better able to assess the situation and see if he's a person you want in your life at all.



I've been struggling with trying to decide how I should best handle my relationship with them. I'd acutally like to put them on the back burner for now ... until I can get back to being more objective. I know my thoughts and feelings are heavily influenced by feeling so vulnerable and therefore, I don't want to make any decisions about my relationship with them just yet. I want to be sure that I am confident about making the best decision for me, but I don't feel that confidence at all.

My dad has not tried to contact me since our phone conversation. I honestly don't know if he actually does care about me or not. I have many reasons indicating that he may simply not be capable of caring at all. But whether he does or does not...is in some ways irrelevant if I am only thinking of how to move past this depressive period right now. His wife has been calling and e-mailing. I have responded to her e-mails, but neither of us has mentioned anything about my conversation with my dad. She left 2 voice messages in the last 3 days and is sounding annoyed at me.

I feel like I've worked very hard in different ways over the past years to gain their acceptance. I don't like that they do not accept me as I am...especially since I've taken some very objective "looks" at myself and have concluded that I'm pretty ok the way I am. I'm a pretty likeable and good person. But, I do have depressive episodes. I didn't have one for a long time (about a decade). The last time I was depressed like this was after my sister died.

I tried going back to work...I couldn't do it. I can only do what I can only do. I try to "wish" myself better, but I'm at where I'm at. I have nothing to gain by being suicidally depressed. In fact I literally have everything to lose. If I knew how to stop myself from getting into this head space I would do it. I work hard on my personal development and I can only do what I can only do.

I could have chosen to do what my sister did. I could also chose to be like my mom. And I tried my dad's way, but that didn't work for me either.

I just am who I am. Many days, I'm ok with that. Actually ---- even over this past few days...I ---well, nevermind. I was going to say that I'd still rather be me than any of them...but, I don't know about that. Denial seems like a pretty sweet deal ---if one can maintain it. I am not a person who can maintain it. I try, but then I usually end up worse off because I still have to deal with whatever the issue is PLUS the after-effects of any denial-coping-tools.

Ah, here I go again. Ramble on.

At least I feel like I'm remembering that I do have some strength somewhere in me that values who I am. I think that's all I am desperately craving right now anyway. To be of value. Even if it's just to myself. I want to be of value.

Desperate and dramatic, I know. But then again, maybe I'm desperate and dramatic right now  At least this is taking my focus away from death for a while.


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## ThatLady

I don't see it as dramatic, at all. I see it as a simple expression of feelings...of what's going on inside. Sometimes, our inner turmoils can seem overly dramatic, but...well, they're very real. 

It sounds to me like you're handling this situation with great maturity, healthbound. You recognize that the fault likes not with you, but with your father at this point. That's not always easy to see yet, you have seen it. That's a lot to be said for your perceptiveness!

If your father's wifes calls are upsetting to you, don't take them. If her emails are upsetting, don't read them. If she wants to get irritated, that's her choice, not yours. You could email her and let her know that you really don't feel that communication with them is helpful to your chosen course of action at the moment, and that you will get back in touch when you feel you all have something positive to contribute to one another. Just remember that her reaction has nothing to do with you. It's her choice and hers alone.

If you can't work right now, you can't. That's how it is. Depression can put one in that shape. If we look at it right, though, we ARE working. We're working our way through the depression so we can get back to living healthy, happy lives.


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## healthbound

Thanks for your post, TL.

Even though I'm able to see the situation for what it really is, I still feel very intensely. That's the hard part.

How bizarre that so many different people would go to so many great lengths just to avoid certain emotions. Odd.

I was actually in the middle of writing an e-mail to his wife. I haven't taken any of her calls but I have listened to the voice messages she leaves. I am struggling with what to say in the e-mail. I don't want to go into detail. I also know that no matter how I phrase things, it'll be spun back around to me. I simply want to be honest without setting them off.

I was thinking that I could simply say:
I'm still feeling a lot of emotions about my last phone conversation with my dad and need some space until I can better figure things out. I am emotional and am having a difficult time thinking clearly right now. I just thought I'd let you know so you'd know what was going on.

They know my situation and if I try to explain that I'm in a serious depression right now and need to focus on getting out of it...I'm thinking they'll angry and blame me as that is what usually happens. And frankly, I'm sick of hearing it. It just amplifies things and makes me more upset. And I don't need ANY help in that area right now.


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## healthbound

PS...I'm still having a lot of physical health issues right now. So, the depression is complicated and amplified by the other health issues. I just gave a bunch more blood last week for a battery of new tests. I HOPE something will show up in one of these damn tests so I can also begin to be proactive about getting better physically.

I also feel like I should DO something part time because I'm finding too much time at home alone is contributing to the depression. I need to be physically around people too. I will commit to doing one thing tomorrow that will get me out and around other people. That's a realistic goal.


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## ThatLady

Sounds good to me, healthbound. One thing's for sure...when we start planning, we start moving forward. Kudos to you for doing that!


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## healthbound

Kay, I just sent the e-mail. I'm not entirely sure why I found it so difficult to do. I also felt nervous after I clicked the "send" button.


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## ThatLady

That's normal, healthbound. I always feel that queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach when I have to do, say, or write something uncomfortable for me, even if I know that what I'm doing is the right thing to do. It's just not easy, all the time, to be assertive; especially, when we've spent so many years as doormats.


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## healthbound

I'm now nervous about their reaction. One of the reasons my dad was so harsh to me during our phone conversations might be because he's not used me saying how I feel. I wonder how they will react to my message.

Although it's difficult, I do have a right to take care of myself. Especially if they're not going to. I don't have to take bullets AND be in a depression. I might have to "ride out" the depression part, but I don't actually have to ride out the bullets. I can just step out of the shooting range.

---Regardless of whether they are intentionally shooting me or not. That part isn't my problem. Getting out of the way is.


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## ThatLady

Absolutely right! You're cooking with gas, healthbound! Your logic is working faultlessly!

Regardless of their reaction, your responsibility is to you and what you need to do right now. How they react is up to them. Their reactions can't really have any impact on you unless you let them do so. You see what's happening very clearly, and you understand what they're doing. While they may be using self-protective mechanisms for themselves, that's no reason you have to pay their prices for them. Let them react, but don't let their reactions get to you. You've got the strength and the courage to stand on your own and fight your own fight. That's something to be very proud of.


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## healthbound

Thanks TL. I'm going to try to hold onto the stronger voice that seems to get burried sometimes.


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## David Baxter PhD

healthbound said:
			
		

> I'm on 300mg of effexor...why do I still feel suicidal? Is that normal?



If you've been at that dose for more than a few weeks, yes, I would say you probably need something added or substituted. There are various ways to do this - adding in a small amount of something like Seroquel, adding in some Wellbutrin, or looking at switching to a different SSRI.

How soon before you see your doctor again, healthbound? Does the doctor know how much you are struggling these days? If not, please rectify that - s/he NEEDS to know that the current medication isn't working very well.


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## foghlaim

HB: i can't add anything to this thread (that hasn't been said already) accept to say you are in my thoughts, and you have my support.

take care of YOU.. you are a precious person to us\me.

nsa


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## healthbound

Thank you, nsa. I appreciate your post 

Dr. B,

I just left a message for my therapist. She coordinates with the psychiatrist and he prescribes my meds. Ironically, I had a meeting with them on Friday (this only happens every 3 months) and I was telling them how much I had progressed. I was saying how I really felt a significant difference in my depression after we increased my effexor 3 months ago. My thoughts were clearer, my memory was better and I could concentrate more.

They were happy and agreed that I was doing really well. How bizarre that later that night I wanted to take my life. One major contributing factor was the alcohol, I'm sure. I was intoxicated and was dead set (no pun intended ) on self destruction.

Could it be a simple lesson about why one should never mix alcohol with antidepressants?

I don't know.

I still feel depressed today. However, I don't feel like carrying out my plan. I was still contemplating it until later in the day yesterday. Today, I just feel depressed.

Regardless, I called my therapist and will tell her what happened. I'll keep you posted.

Strange.

Actually - in addition to talking to TL yesterday, I did check my bank and found that the insurance company had deposited some money. This means that I was accepted for short term leave (mind you only until Aug1), but it also meant that I could pay my rent. I think my conversations with TL and seeing that I could pay my rent and buy food was a massive, massive relief.

I have been extremely stressed out about money while I've been continuing to try dealing with my health issues.


----------



## Holly

Hi healthbound,
I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you, glad you left the message for your therapist. 
Take care, I think if you read the label it may have a warning about what you can take with medicine.
I know I could not use alcohol with certain medicines when I was taking them. Hope that is helpful.


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## Cat Dancer

You're in my thoughts too. That's good news about the money. Also it's good that you called your therapist. 

I have had those times where I was feeling ok and then just crashed down really hard. It's scary when that happens and how quickly it can happen. 

Just wish the best for you.


----------



## healthbound

Thanks you guys.

Maybe it's more about taking another leap into consciousness. I noticed that I gained another 7lbs recently. I use food to make myself feel better. I've also used alcohol to do the same. Both cause serious side effects. I've been dancing a dangerous dance. I know the potential risks of mixing alcohol and meds, but I did it anyway. I also know the risks of putting on weight so quickly. But, I keep craving cake.

I feel out of control.

I cognitively KNOW the risks of certain behaviors, but part of me doesn't care and continues to do them anyway. While another part of me cares about me and my body/mind/soul and wants to move through this.

I kind of feel like I'm taking the slow route to death with depression, eating, not working etc. Maybe I thought I was ready to speed things up and so I reached for the alcohol. Don't know.

I do sort of feel like I'm at a crossroads though. I'm really frustrated about living like this. I just eat and sleep and get sick and feel depressed.

What value to I have? To myself, to my family, to the world? I think this is what I've been struggling with in relation to my dad. I don't feel like I have value or worth. Not to him, not to me and not to the world. What is my value? What do I DO?

Dramatic and philosophical, I know. But, maybe I should keep processing my thoughts and questions here...it seemed to help yesterday. It kind of feels good to get some of these things out. Helps me organize my thoughts and answer some of my own questions.

Thanks for reading.


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## Rosa

Healthbound
Remember to take care of yourself before you worry about your relationship with your father-that can wait for now. As far as value, you have a lot of value. You are a very important individual who's just going through a rough time right now. I care about you and want to see you through this difficult time. 
In friendship
Rosa
remember, don't stop looking up...the sky today was a spectacular powder blue with pretty white clouds-something you wouldn't want to miss


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## foghlaim

Priceless!!!!


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## ThatLady

These tendencies to use alcohol and food to try to overcome the feelings of worthlessness are things you really need to work on with your therapist. You most certainly do have value! You are a very special person who is meant to be here, in this world. We value you very highly here.


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## healthbound

Well, I had to fax a medical note to my work and when I was out, my therapist called. I tried calling back, but she's gone for the day.

I have a choice about how I deal with the rest of my day. I think I'm going to go get drunk. Just kidding. Kay, maybe that wasn't that funny...but, I hope anyone reading this can appreciate that I'm making fun of myself.

Alright, seriously. I really want to pig out on food. That makes sense to me because I'm still not feeling super great. I know that as long as I stay away from alcohol, I am still in control of my actions. So, what can I do that will help me feel more grounded. I feel very disconnected. I know that when I feel grounded or "real" (I'm not sure how to best explain it), I make better choices for myself. Yes, I feel the intensity of my sadness and anger, but that's the point...I _feel _ it rather than do whatever I can to avoid it.

I struggle with staying connected to myself or to my reality. For some reason there seems to be a fairly dominant part of me that believes that staying connected to reality is horrible and intolerable. In fact, that part of me thinks that reality is SO horrible and intolerable that it believes death (even though I have NO idea what happens after death, if anything) is a better option than riding it out. It thinks that stuffing my face full of unhealthy foods is better than reality. It thinks that drinking, cutting and depression are better than reality. EVEN THOUGH overeating, drinking, cutting and depression hurt me and many people connected to me.

I'm really confused about that part of me and I don't like it. Plus, if staying connected to reality is healthier, easier and better...then why put up such a fight? I don't get it.

There absolutely is a part of me that desperately wants to be healthy. I want to be happy. I want to take care of myself and take care of my son. I want to live. What a challenge though.

I also compare myself a lot with the way I perceive others. Like, when I went to fax the note to my work, I look at the people in my community and they are living. They are working and living. If they can do it, why can't I?

Are there self help or support groups for this? I mean, I know I go to therapy, but I feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with me and that I'm just not "getting it" or something.

thanks for reading.


----------



## David Baxter PhD

> What is my value?


Your value is not defined in terms of your father's opinion of you or anyone else's. It is not defined by what you do or don't do.

It is defined by who you are and by the impact you have on other people who have the privilege of knowing you and interacting with you.

See this thread on Carl Rogers, especially the parts on unconditional positive self-regard versus conditions of worth.


----------



## healthbound

Thanks TL.

Part of me feels sad that I have some of these feelings towards myself.

I also feel really confused about the reality of the situation with my dad. I can't seem to figure out if he really is being the way I perceive he is or if I'm somehow distorting him. 

Rosa...I just looked up and there is blue sky and green trees. Reminded me to take a deep breath. Ahhh.

I really appreciate everyone's support. I hope I don't seem "selfish" by continuing to ramble on. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk by venting so much, but at the same time I think it's helping work through some of this.


----------



## healthbound

Thank you Dr B. I'll check out the link now. I feel lost.

And for some reason I feel like crying.


----------



## ThatLady

Personally, I think the one who feels worthless is the little girl inside you who was told she was worthless by the people who should love her. She's lonely and scared. That's who wants to cry, and that's who wants to deaden the pain with alcohol and food. For me, what has worked is to sit down and have an inner dialogue with that hurt child. Assure her that you love her and that she is very important to you.

How your dad is "really" being isn't that important right now. What's important is what his behaviors are doing to you. He's toxic to your well-being right now.


----------



## healthbound

Hi TL,

I think you are right as that part of me feels very "young".

I agree with what you said and think the reason I cried was because I think I have been taking on his perception of me as true. But, I'm not the way he perceives me. I am just not. And even though I am struggling with both mental and physical illnesses right now, I'm still trying to move through them and deal with them the best way I know how.

I would really like to leave his words and critiques behind. I would like to move forward without accepting his way of seeing me. The core part of me doesn't agree with it and I doesn't like it. However, there's that other part of me that believes that what he says is fact. That's the littler me. The one that believed her parents knew everything.



> Your value is not defined in terms of your father's opinion of you or anyone else's. It is not defined by what you do or don't do.
> 
> It is defined by who you are and by the impact you have on other people who have the privilege of knowing you and interacting with you.



Somewhere along the way, I got tripped up and allowed myself to be defined by his opinion. But in the grand scheme of things...who is he, really? He is just a man.

I think I still need to do some core strengthening. Not the kind you do on an exercise ball (although, I could benefit from that too ), but the kind ya do in a more spiritual and psychological sense. I need to strengthen that part of me so much that it remains consistent regardless of external opinions or experiences.

I'm going to make something to eat (healthy -with no alcohol) and come back and read the link that Dr B posted.


----------



## Cat Dancer

"Toxic" is what popped in to my mind as well. 

I found this article: Dealing with toxic people that I thought had some good advice. I know for me, it's hard to take advice like that and actually apply it to my life, but sometimes it sticks in my mind. 

Stuff to at least think about. 

(And for some reason the font on that website looks all weird on my computer, but I think it's just my computer.)


----------



## healthbound

Thanks Janet!
I'll definitely check that lik out too.


----------



## Rosa

Hi Healthbound
So glad to see your still writing. I don't have alot more to say at this moment, but with some work you'll be able to realize that your parents, just because they are your parents. aren't always right, sometimes they're screwed up and sometimes they want to screw us up. I'm really coming to terms with this in therapy and it really has helped alot...sure theres days when I feel I have no value or feel worthless....but recently I said to my little girl dog "if I ever question my value all I have to do is look into your eyes'. .....its soooo true
Be well my friend
Rosa


----------



## Rosa

when i was commenting on my little dog I was thinking you could very well do the same with your son.... sorry i wasn't clear..
Rosa


----------



## healthbound

Hi Rosa,

Thanks for your message. Your message is timely because I was looking through a few pictures of my son as I have decided to paint one of him.

And actually, I thought a lot about my value today and how much of it has been tied to my son. I asked myself when I was happiest in my life and I thought mostly of the times when my son was a baby. I think this is because he provided me with value or a purpose. He also provided me with an opportunity to experience unconditional love. I don't feel like I've experienced a lot of that and it's been a challenge not to take it personally.

I now understand that my mom was ill when I was a teenager (she became severely depressed after her and my father split up -I was 11) and she literally was not capable of parenting us in the way that we needed. So, it's easier for me to not take her behaviors personally.

But, I still struggle with my dad and his wife.

I got an e-mail message from my dad's wife (in response to my message about needing some space for a while) saying that she's still going to call and e-mail. She said she was going to do this because " ?cause I think it is important that you know that we care about you.".

I had a couple different reactions to her message:
"Does she even know what went on during my discussion with my dad?"
"I over reacted and I'm the one that is really distorted. I'm probably just making all this up"
"If they "care" about me then they sure have a sick way of showing it"
"Interesting that I e-mailed saying that I needed some space, but she's going to still contact me anyway"
"Why hasn't my dad contacted me at all?"

I feel frustrated because part of me knows what I know. Like they did and do what they did and do. It doesn't seem to me that their actions match their words.

Actually, her message triggers memories of other times when people have taken things from me, but told me that it was ok or that it was because they loved or cared about me.

Part of me feels like e-mailing back and asking her to expand on it. Kind of like I finally want to call them on their BS.

I'm sure all of this sounds very wacky or like I'm making it up...or making a big deal out of nothing. But, I think my recent interactions with them (in addition to the e-mail) has really triggered a lot for me about my relationship with them. 

Ultimately, I'm trying to disengage in a well-worn and long-standing pattern with them. And either our relationship with re-define itself or it will end. I have a lot of mixed emotions, thoughts and memories about this.


----------



## healthbound

David Baxter  said:
			
		

> What is my value?
> 
> 
> 
> Your value is not defined in terms of your father's opinion of you or anyone else's. It is not defined by what you do or don't do.
> 
> It is defined by who you are and by the impact you have on other people who have the privilege of knowing you and interacting with you.
> 
> See this thread on Carl Rogers, especially the parts on unconditional positive self-regard versus conditions of worth.
Click to expand...


I read the info on the link. I can definitely see how it relates to the experience I'm having. It reflects exactly what I'm going through. I'm going to do a bit more research/reading. Thanks for posting it.


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## Halo

Hi HB

I know that I have not gotten in on your posts and other replies but something that you posted really has hit home with me



> I cognitively KNOW the risks of certain behaviors, but part of me doesn't care and continues to do them anyway. While another part of me cares about me and my body/mind/soul and wants to move through this.



I feel the exact same way. I can relate to almost everything that you posted about using alcohol and food as an escape from the feelings yet those things contribute to how I am feeling. On one hand I just don't care what happens to me and therefore will eat anything and everything in site and use alcohol and pills among other things to try to take the bad, hurt and sad feelings away. I have to admit that yes it does provide immediate relief of the feelings however afterwards the feelings always come back. I know for me the last 6 months or so I have pretty much given up on taking care of my physical self and my eating habits. I gave up because I really didn't see much point in taking care of myself if I didn't even want to live. 

Anyway, I didn't want to make this about me but I just wanted you to know that I can completely understand and relate to almost every word that you wrote. 

P.S. - I am glad that you called your therapist too. That is something that you did to take care of yourself.....good job. 

Take Care and talk to you soon.


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## healthbound

Hi Nancy!

I'm notorious for posting my own experiences on other people's threads, so I encourage it ! When I read what you wrote, I felt a connection and therefor less alone.

Yes, this self destructive cycle of crap. Today, I woke up at 2pm. My house is a mess. I've gained another pound. And I have a physio appointment that I don't feel like going to (which will cost me money I don't have). BUT I am feeling better than I was yesterday. I still feel crummy, but I feel a little less crummy.

I want to pick one small thing that I can do today that will be good or healthy for me. Just one small thing. [long pause]
ok...I have it. I'm going to go to the library and read a chapter of my Constructive Living book (I was going to do this the other day, but didn't).

Then, later I will deal with the dishes and counter tops in my kitchen.

Two simple things that I know I can do and I know will help me feel better.


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## Halo

Hi Healthbound,

I have been reading your posts and I have to say that the last one from you sounded much more positive than the few before that. I think that having a plan of action on what you want and need to do is good. I hope that you went to the library and read and then took care of what needed to be done at home. I am glad that you are not feeling as crummy as of lately but I just wanted you to know that I am here for you and that I can relate.

And remember you are never alone.....as I am always here. 

Take Care


----------



## healthbound

Thanks Nancy.

I saw my therapist today. I told her exactly how I was feeling. I also explained that I was nervous about this weekend because I'm supposed to go camping with some friends and I know there will be lots of drinking (which is what seems to give me the extra push towards acting on my 'plan').

We talked a lot about my dad and my relationship with him.

I am feeling better each day I get further away from Friday (which is when I was determined to take my life). Today was the first day that suicide wasn't forefront on my mind.

My therapist suggested I take something symbolic with me this weekend. So tonight, I'm creating a bracelet that I can wear.


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## healthbound

I spent last night creating a bracelet that I could wear this weekend. It will help me remember why I want to live.

I'm not feeling suicidal today. But, I did spend money I don't have. I didn't intend to either. I only needed to pick one thing up from the store, but instead ended up shopping all day long. I didn't realize it until I was on my way home what I had done.

I'm still obviously having some serious issues with impulse control. Brutal.


----------



## Halo

HB, I think that it is awesome that you made a bracelet to take with you. I remember you mentioning that yesterday on here and I have thought about doing something like that for myself, especially since I think that I am going away again soon for a quick road trip which turned bad last time.....such a good idea I just might have to steal it from you 

When you talked about impulse control and shopping all day...I know that for me I tend to shop or gamble when I know that I can't afford it but I find that it is more to take my mind off of the difficulties I am having and to try and make myself feel better.

HB, please take care this weekend when you go camping and try to stay safe. I look forward to hearing all about it when you return and do try to have some fun too.


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## Holly

Hi healthbound,
I love the idea of bracelet, I glad you made it! We have to do something for ourselves more than we realize.  
I hope you enjoy camping, have a wonderful time, HB Take care


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## healthbound

Thanks, guys. And, steal away, Nancy! It was actually a great thing to do.



> When you talked about impulse control and shopping all day...I know that for me I tend to shop or gamble when I know that I can't afford it but I find that it is more to take my mind off of the difficulties I am having and to try and make myself feel better.



Ya, I'd say judging by my behavior, I'm struggling to stay connected to myself and my reality right now. Obviously, Friday night was a very extreme indication of that. Today was another indication, but obviously not as extreme.

Hm. I know from the past that when I actually allow myself to simply feel whatever I'm feeling, it's not as bad as part of me anticipates it will be. In fact, I usually feel much better when I'm feeling rather than avoiding.

Maybe I'll just tell myself that it's ok to feel what I'm feeling (Od geeze, I feel like Stuart Smalley from Saturday Night Live).


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## healthbound

I just went through all my receipts. I'm going to return as much of the stuff as possible tomorrow. Some of the stores say "exchange or credit note within 15 days...". But, I'll still call to see if they will do a return if the items have all the tags and are in perfect condition.

I feel like a total idiot.

This is SO backwards. I'm having major financial problems right now. Like, I-can't-afford-food-and-rent kind of problems. Yet, I went out and spent money I literally don't have on clothes and accessories. Like, I don't even have any place to wear the clothes --- I'M NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW AND I'M ISCOLATING.

What was I thinking?!


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## healthbound

It's 3:30am (actually it's now 4:30am) and I still can't sleep. I did take one ativan, but I guess I'm pretty wound up cause it didn't help.

I'm finding that when I'm not occupied my thoughts continuously revolve around the conversation I had with my dad a few weeks back.

At first, I feel really angry. Then I feel sad, but I can't really feel the sad for very long because it immediately turns into anger again. I feel anxious and I haven't felt anxiety for a good while now.

I am most angry that I'm letting this whole thing get to me so much.

I'm going to try to go back to bed. Either that, or find a Denny's and order a grand slam


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## Halo

Good Morning HB,

There is so much that I want to say so first off let me say that there is nothing wrong with returning items that you have not used as a result of overspending. I know myself I have done that many times when I realized that I overspent and didn't have money for the basics. There is nothing to be embarrassed or feel ashamed about it is just another awareness that you had (which is great!) but it was just a day late  Hopefully next time you might catch yourself in this pattern during the shopping and realize it sooner. There is opportunity to learn and grow from this. I how for me that soooo many times I have been in that situtation myself but I find that for me it is with gambling and you can't go back to a Casino the next day and ask for a refund 

Secondly, when I read about how the conversation with your dad keeps playing over and over in your mind like a tape (been there) my first suggestion was how about writing about exactly what you are feeling whether it be anger, frustration, disappointment, whatever. Also, what about if you wrote about what you wished you would have said/or he would have said and create a new dialogue. I don't know if this will work but sometimes (okay most times) I obsess over whether I said the right thing to someone and start replaying it over and over in my mind and creating different scenerios of what I "could" have said. Sometimes getting these on paper helps as then it does not become a revolving door in your own mind.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that again I can relate to a lot of what you are posting and going through and I am here for you anytime.

Please take care


----------



## healthbound

> I how for me that soooo many times I have been in that situtation myself but I find that for me it is with gambling and you can't go back to a Casino the next day and ask for a refund


Yikes. That's about the only destructive behavior I _haven't _ gotten into. I've avoided all Vegas trips through work or social because I'm nervous I might never leave. Regardless, there are some similarities between drinking, spending, gambling, self harm and or suicide. They are all avoidants and they're all harmful to those of us who are challenged with "balance" in any of these areas. I'm glad that I have an opportunity to take back much of the "stuff".



> my first suggestion was how about writing about exactly what you are feeling whether it be anger, frustration, disappointment, whatever. Also, what about if you wrote about what you wished you would have said/or he would have said and create a new dialogue.



Great suggestions. I did just write a huge monologue but then decided to quarantine it because I felt guilty and confused afterwards. I find that I have so many mixed emotions about it that it's difficult to stay with my 'actual' thoughts and feelings (if that makes any sense). I'm sure my subconscious probably thinks it's doing me a favour by creating confusion so that I don't stay with how I'm really feeling for too long  I guess this crap goes a long way back.



> ...when I read about how the conversation with your dad keeps playing over and over in your mind like a tape...



Actually, that's kind of what PTSD felt like after my sister died. Hm.

Another interesting thing I discussed with my therapist was what triggered my "suicidalness" on Friday night. Until I had seen her, I hadn't even considered that there was a trigger, but when she began asking me about when I suddenly felt suicidal, I realized that there was an obvious trigger.

Regardless, it's certainly annoying that I feel like I can't "shake" it. Grrrr. It's starting to get light out and I'm seriously considering going for breakfast. Too bad you don't live near by...we could go for pancakes!

I do feel like I should get _some _ sleep though. I feel like I need to be well rested so I can make good decisions on this damn camping trip. Although, if I go to sleep now, I might not wake up in time to get everything done blah blah blah. buzzzzzzz. That's how I feel ....buzzzzzing.

I'll try sleeping first. If I don't have any luck...then, pancakes, it is!

Thanks for chatting.


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## Halo

I think that sleeping first and then pancakes sounds like a good idea. If we were closer it would be awesome to have breakfast together. If you try to sleep and need someone to have coffee with when you wake up than I am here for that....ummm coffee 

Take Care


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## healthbound

lol. I ended up staying awake in my bed for about another 45mins and then I finally fell asleep. I did have pancakes too  yum.

I took back some of the stuff I bought and will return more of it on Tuesday when I get back.

I'm just packing for camping now and am being picked up in about an hour and a half. I'm looking forward to it. I'm bringing a couple books (Constructive Livingand Zen Path Through Depression) as well as a drawing book. I have a chair, my meds, some food, crisis line phone number and my toothbrush. I should be ok.

Have a great weekend everyone :wave:


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## ThatLady

Enjoy yourself, healthbound. Everyone needs some R&R time now and then. It's good for the soul!


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## David Baxter PhD

Have a great time, healthbound!


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## just mary

Hi HB,

I hope you have a great weekend though you probably left by now. Sorry I haven't posted sooner but I have trouble getting onto the Internet (alone) these days. The quote below is something you wrote several pages back. I just had to quote it since it is such a great bit of advice, the imagery is perfect - it helped me look at things differently. It was really neat, thank-you.



			
				Healthbound said:
			
		

> Although it's difficult, I do have a right to take care of myself. Especially if they're not going to. I don't have to take bullets AND be in a depression. I might have to "ride out" the depression part, but I don't actually have to ride out the bullets. I can just step out of the shooting range.
> 
> ---Regardless of whether they are intentionally shooting me or not. That part isn't my problem. Getting out of the way is.



I am glad to hear you're feeling somewhat better. Thanks for sharing. I read your posts about drinking too much and overeating and I could relate so well. 

I don't have much advice but it sounds like you're making some positive steps, getting your feelings out, talking to people and trying to "get out of the way". I look forward to seeing how your weekend went and you're feeling. Keep us posted and thanks.

Take care,


----------



## Halo

Hi HB

I know that you are well on your way to your camping trip this weekend but I want to telepathically send you lots of support while away.



			
				healthbound  said:
			
		

> I have a chair, my meds, some food, crisis line phone number and my toothbrush. I should be ok.



It sounds like you have everything that you need but I didn't see pj's on your list. Hopefully you didn't forget those as the evenings can be cold and having clean teeth is not as important as being clothed


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## Holly

Hi healthbound,
Have a wonderful time, enjoy the camping trip. I hope you will update us after you have some rest, take care.


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## healthbound

Hello everyone. Thank you all for your continual support. This forum and the support I receive here is very important to me.

I ended up taking it pretty easy this weekend. I did drink, but I didn't drink the level of intoxication that I did the night I wanted to die. That scared the crapola out of me.

However, I did notice how terrified I felt about being in an unfamiliar place with few resources (of all kinds) and people who aren't familiar with (or understand depression) --or at least that's my perception of them. I felt very vulnerable and scared. I was also feeling "alone" and frustrated at the dynamics. I'm pretty sure that my frustrations and loneliness were a result of being triggered about the work I'm doing around my relationship with my father.

I went with T, his fianc? S, his nephew J, and his other nephew D. T and I used to be very close friends. I still consider him to be a very close friend...almost like a brother. We've been through some similar tough times and therefore we always related and felt a unique (and never sexual) bond. His nephew's have always treated me with respect and almost accepted me as family too.

However, since T met S they I haven't spent much time with him. Around the same time he met her, I was working really hard and then of course, he was in a new relationship, so we just seemed to drift apart. I also remember having a hard time spending time with him because of how he was sleeping around so much (including cheating on girlfriends) and I was finding it increasingly difficult to be supportive when I felt so strongly that what he was doing was hurtful to both him and the girls. Anyway, he's doing very well now. He seems to be monogamous and his fianc? is really nice. He has a stable job, a dog and seems to have settled down considerably (although I still have troubles dealing with the way he expresses his anger).

Anyway I'm starting to ramble and am unfocused again. I'll post again later. I was going to reflect on the dynamics and how they were little triggers for some of the challenges I have around power and control and maintaining my own identity, likes, dislikes and more specifically my needs in such situations.


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## healthbound

So, it's 2am and i'm feelin super crummy.

It was my dad's birthday today. Urgh.

I also chose today to talk to my x-boyfriend who I broke up with because I felt guilty about being depressed so much. He's moved on. He was good about being completely honest with me when I asked him, but man it stung.

I feel like I should either go to the hospital or to A.A. or something. I feel like I'm totally breaking down.

damn it.


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## healthbound

i wish someone was online.

i know i'm high maintainance. i don't know what to do about it. i frickin hate my life and i feel so crummy. what the heck is happening to me? Damn it, I can't stand it. Nothing is the way I want it to be. 


Except my son. He is exactly they way I would have liked him to be. I'm very proud of him and I'm honestly happy about how I've raised him.

But, I feel like I'm even losing touch with that now too. Like, I can't even hold onto that. URGH. What must I do to rid myself of this horrible curse?!?!?!?!?!

OK. Dramatic, I know. But, seriously...how low do I need to go before I can go back up again? Will I ever go back up again?

Instead of continually trying to "just hold it together", maybe it would be better for my son if I just admitted myself to the hospital and then to some sort of treatment or something?

Maybe he'd be better off with his dad's parents? Or even my parents?

Damn it. I feel like I don't have any damn options here. Urgh. I'm really in a state.


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## ThatLady

You're not high maintenance! You're just suffering. You're feeling low, and lost, and depressed. I think most of us can identify with those feelings, healthbound. Maybe not for the same reasons as you have, but the feelings are much the same, I think.

We have a tendency to put ourselves down...over, and over, and over. It doesn't matter what we do good, we will concentrate on what we feel we don't do well. If there's something, like your son, that's obviously good, we figure we don't deserve that! Well, yes, you do deserve the credit for raising your son well! Even though you have had a lot of difficulty, you kept on with what you had to do to keep your son well, and raise him in the best way you knew how. That says a lot for you!

If you feel you need help with the drinking, AA might be a good place to start. I also think you need to be aware that the fact that it's your dad's birthday and you're having problems with him currently is adding to your distress. This too, will pass, as the saying goes.


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## Halo

Hi HB,

First of all I want to say that I am happy that you are back from your camping trip and for the most part that it went well. I am also very proud of you for not drinking in excess like you thought might happen. Good Job.

As for the way that you are feeling, I too can relate as well as many others no here I am sure. It is scary when you are feeling so low and depressed and you wonder when it is going to lift so that you can at least see that there is light. I wish there was some magic wand that I would wave that would take this incredibly horrible feeling from you HB but there isnt (and if there was I would wave it for myself). I too think that being your dad's birthday and coming off of some triggers from the weekend are probably causing you more sad and depressed feelings. 

With respect to going to the hospital or to AA, I think that only you can be the one to decide what is best for you at this time. I think that deep down you know how bad the situation is and whether hospitalization or AA is the route to go. Please HB take credit where credit is due for raising your son and taking care of him the best you can. You seem to love him so much and that is a wonderful thing.

Take care HB and hope that you are getting some much deserved rest. Remember I am always here for you anytime.


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## ^^Phoenix^^

healthbound  said:
			
		

> i wish someone was online.
> 
> i know i'm high maintainance. i don't know what to do about it. i frickin hate my life and i feel so crummy. what the heck is happening to me? Damn it, I can't stand it. Nothing is the way I want it to be.
> 
> 
> Except my son. He is exactly they way I would have liked him to be. I'm very proud of him and I'm honestly happy about how I've raised him.
> 
> But, I feel like I'm even losing touch with that now too. Like, I can't even hold onto that. URGH. What must I do to rid myself of this horrible curse?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> OK. Dramatic, I know. But, seriously...how low do I need to go before I can go back up again? Will I ever go back up again?
> 
> Instead of continually trying to "just hold it together", maybe it would be better for my son if I just admitted myself to the hospital and then to some sort of treatment or something?
> 
> Maybe he'd be better off with his dad's parents? Or even my parents?
> 
> Damn it. I feel like I don't have any damn options here. Urgh. I'm really in a state.



You're *not *High Maintanence or being Dramatic HB. I'm really sorry that no-one was online when you needed to chat, and now that I'm writing this - you're not online. I hope you managed through how you were feeling and are feeling better now. 

It seems like alot is changing around you at the moment. The friend with the new relationship, the ex moving on. And the birthday of someone, whose relationship you are working on. None of these are easy things, and to all happen at once can be a little overwhelming. Like your drowning in hurt, and your finding it difficult to re-emerge, _even though_ you have things that you feel _should _help you out (your feelings about your son). Some times these things just *don't* help. And its not because you don't love him/arn't looking out for him enough. Just sometimes our depression pulls us so far under the water - everything on the surface is blurred.


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## Cat Dancer

You're a good person. A good person. I think you don't have the support you need from the people who should support you. And you are hurting and struggling and going through a hard time. 

And it can be SO hard sometimes. But keep reaching out and talking. I don't know the answers, but I do care.


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## Into The Light

dear healthbound i am so sorry you are feeling this way. i know how difficult it is to see a way out. indeed there are too many changes that you are facing right now. what's your current situation? are you seeing a therapist? if so when do you see him/her next? i am just trying to think of things you could do to alleviate some of your stress to take the pressure off. when you talk about going to the hospital for treatment what do you have in mind? would this be instead of seeing someone weekly? (i don't know your background so i have no idea if you're getting any professional support at all). how long would you expect to be there for? if it's just short-term then it wouldn't be the end of the world for your son to stay with family? if you do have professional help available you may ask for advice and be quite clear that you are struggling and you want and need help. they may be able to give you input on how to best approach your situation.

i myself just kept struggling and struggling not knowing what the best next step to do was. it sounds like you are doing the same. i think that at some point you just need to decide what you want/need and go for it. if you think the hospital is the way to go then maybe you should, if you think aa is better, then go for that. you'll probably have doubts (i certainly did), but that's part of the package i think. in my case i just felt i had to DO something, i just did not want to feel as crappy as i did. doing nothing would change nothing.

these are just some thoughts that come to mind, i hope some of this is helpful to you. let us know how you are doing.


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## healthbound

Wow, thank you everyone for your kind comments and support. Thank you.

My sister's birthday is also this month on the 16th.



> Like your drowning in hurt, and your finding it difficult to re-emerge, even though you have things that you feel should help you out (your feelings about your son). Some times these things just don't help. And its not because you don't love him/aren't looking out for him enough. Just sometimes our depression pulls us so far under the water - everything on the surface is blurred.



This is exactly how I feel. I'm finding it very difficult to keep ahold of the things that usually keep me afloat. I also feel scared of what I'm feeling. It's scaring me. I feel pretty inconsistent and unstable. I have the desire and desperation to get better and move past this, but I'm struggling to somehow put it into action. I feel like I need more guidance or hand holding or something.



> i myself just kept struggling and struggling not knowing what the best next step to do was. it sounds like you are doing the same. i think that at some point you just need to decide what you want/need and go for it. if you think the hospital is the way to go then maybe you should, if you think aa is better, then go for that. you'll probably have doubts (i certainly did), but that's part of the package i think. in my case i just felt i had to DO something, i just did not want to feel as crappy as i did. doing nothing would change nothing.



And this is also exactly how I feel.

I feel like SOMETHING'S GOT TO CHANGE. I think the reason I periodically think of AA is because it is where I was able to go when I was younger to get a family-like support system. And that is what I am desperately craving now. I don't know if I really belong there though. I perceive that I use many different things to avoid feelings and emotions and I feel powerless over them all at some point. I don't necessarily think that it's the alcohol or food or suicidal ideation that's "killing" me, but rather it's something fundamental about ME that's not working synergistically with life.

However, I DO know that there is a specific program there that might provide me with the extra "guidance or hand holding" I'm looking for. It would perhaps help me DO something different so I could move past this point in my life and move on. But on the other hand, it doesn't seem to totally "fit" for me.

There's got to be some sort of out-patient day program or something.

The only times I think about hospitalization are when I begin feeling hopeless and have the ideas about suicide. I feel scared of myself and that I might actually do it. And I'm not 100% sure that's actually the best choice. I'm told it's not and I know I've had severe depression before (after my sister died) and was able to come through it...so, I keep holding on to that and thinking I'll get through it again.

But, on the other hand, let's face it. It's been two years. My life is not getting any better. I don't have any way to financially support my son and I and I'm more alone then I've ever been. The thought of rebuilding is daunting.

I seem to often (like, real often) forget about all my previous major successes. Like it wasn't "really" me that accomplished those things. I guess that's me taking on my dad's perceptions. Grrr. Damn it.

I'm isolating, but desperately craving a place where I can actually have some human contact with people who might identify with me (instead of misunderstanding or reacting etc). I feel needy and I hate that too.

Lol...I'm just a big ball of anger, sadness, desperation and confusion right now. Guess, it's not really funny. But, I feel like I'm drifting farther and farther away from myself. And I don't like it. I want to come back.

I'm going to spend a bit of time right now finding out if there's some sort of day program that I can get involved with or something. I also thought I remembered someone saying something about the Mood Disorders of BC having meetings that are similar to AA but are geared towards mood disorders. That would be the jackpot if I can find out more about that.

I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to read and reply to my posts ---especially over the past few weeks. I feel like this is either my breaking point or the point where I hit some sort of "bottom" and will then finally begin my upward climb. I feel inappropriate, needy, desparate and high maintenance. So, as I said, I really appreciate all of your support. I'm not "myself" right now and I DO want to get past this. I desperately do.


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## ThatLady

You know, thinking about this...as I recall, when my therapy had approached a point where I was ready to make a breakthrough, it seemed my symptoms of depression and helplessness increased exponentially. I hadn't thought about it until I read your last post. I wonder if this isn't the norm.

Shortly after I reached that point (I was in individual therapy twice a week and on medication for depression and anxiety), my psychiatrist broached the subject of beginning group therapy as an adjunct to my individual therapy. The idea terrified me, but he convinced me to give it a try. It was really very helpful and inspiring, and I never looked back. That group became a sort of family to me, and I one of their family members, as well. We supported each other, and the psychiatrist directed our efforts. I think it was a major step forward toward healing for me.


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## healthbound

ThatLady  said:
			
		

> You know, thinking about this...as I recall, when my therapy had approached a point where I was ready to make a breakthrough, it seemed my symptoms of depression and helplessness increased exponentially. I hadn't thought about it until I read your last post. I wonder if this isn't the norm.
> 
> Shortly after I reached that point (I was in individual therapy twice a week and on medication for depression and anxiety), my psychiatrist broached the subject of beginning group therapy as an adjunct to my individual therapy. The idea terrified me, but he convinced me to give it a try. It was really very helpful and inspiring, and I never looked back. That group became a sort of family to me, and I one of their family members, as well. We supported each other, and the psychiatrist directed our efforts. I think it was a major step forward toward healing for me.



Thanks for your post, TL. It made me feel like there might be some hope for me yet!

One of the most difficult things about depression is how it really limits one's peripheral vision. Or ability to see anything past the way we feel at that moment. Like, I feel horrible and helpless, therefore that must mean that I am horrible and helpless. Not only that, but I think I'll feel and be horrible and helpless _forever_. That's a major depression distortion.



> I wonder if this isn't the norm.


Actually, I do remember when it was time for me to leave the day program (group therapy 4 days per week after my sister died), they mentioned that it was normal for clients to often react in a way that seemed like a mini relapse of sorts. It makes sense. I also seem to remember a couple times in my life when there was a storm before the calm .

My therapist also approached me about joining a group a few months ago. I immediately panicked about it and did not want to join it. Instead I tried to force myself to be ready to go back to work full time (because again, I simply couldn't afford not to), but ended up having to go on leave after only 2 months of being back. 

This week, I see her on Friday. I will ask her what groups are happening right now and see if I can join one.

Alternatively, I found something with a completely different organization (from the one my therapist and psychiatrist are involved in). I'll do some more looking.

I think it's important for me to get hooked into some sort of community. I'm not sure if the additional help (ie: a group) and the community will be one and the same or separate. But, I've read that being part of a community is an important element to reducing risks of suicide and depression.


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## ThatLady

I certainly found it to be so, healthbound. We all served as a support system for one another, and it was something many didn't have access to in their everyday lives. In short, it gave us all the connection to other, understanding human beings that we need so desperately when we're fighting our way out of depression.


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## healthbound

> it gave us all the connection to other, understanding human beings that we need so desperately when we're fighting our way out of depression.



Exactly. I do get that here, but I feel like I need more ---or at least some physical contact with people.

Thank, TL.


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## just mary

Hi HB,

I'm glad you're posting and letting us know how you're doing. It's a challenging thing to do, even if you're anonymous.  

I understand what you're saying about community and physical contact. That was one thing I did like about AA was that it did provide a community and the honesty in that room could be quite inspiring at times. It's rare these days to hear someone say "I made a mistake, I screwed up", hearing that others weren't perfect made me feel a lot less alone in my own failures. And most of the people there were fighting their way back and trying to be better people. But in the end, I just didn't "fit", I felt like a voyeur. Anyway, enough about AA. 

I think finding a group of people that you can relate to, that you can go to for support but at the same time provide support back - sounds good. I guess the hard part is finding the group. I'd be interested in hearing how it works out.

And by the way, I did NOT think you were being dramatic - you were just asking for help - which takes a lot of courage.  

Take care,


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## healthbound

Thanks JM. I appreciate hearing your experiences with AA and I also appreciated hearing that you don't think I'm being dramatic. I keep thinking that I'm being dramatic and needy.

At this moment, I just feel very sad, sad, sad.

I really hate feeling like this and miss the days when I wasn't in this seemingly neverending black hole. I'm finding it difficult to remember positive things and anticipate how things can possibly work out.

I know that I've been taught that things will pass and they will work out, but I'm certainly not connecting with that on any level lately. In fact, I don't really feel like I'm connecting to anything lately.


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## ThatLady

You're connecting to us, healthbound! I feel the connection! 

When you feel you're surrounded with problems and nothing's going right, it's not easy to keep positive thoughts. It takes real effort to find the good things in each moment, each hour, each day. Yet, that's what we have to try to do. It's the best way to get through the doldrums.

The beauty of a flower, or a butterfly, or a new green leaf exists in the moment. We can appreciate those with a glance. The beauty of a child's smile exists in the hour. We can appreciate that by spending time. The beauty of living life to the best of our ability exists in a day. We can appreciate that by lying down to rest at night knowing we did our darndest. Each small effort at appreciation leads to the next. 

My heart and my thoughts are with you. You will make it through this time.


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## Into The Light

i can relate to feeling needy and wanting the handholding, that is exactly how i felt. I wanted for someone else to tell me what i needed to do. the first time i was at the hospital it drove me crazy because no one would tell me what i needed to do, they just basically left me to figure things out for myself. i ended up feeling like i was alone and that only i could solve my problems and that no one could or would help me with that. i desperately needed for someone to tell me that there was help available and that i was not alone. i was looking for guidance and reassurance and couldn't seem to get it. i know now they were trying to teach me to be more self-reliant instead of being so dependent and not that there was no help for me. so don't let that throw you off if that's the message you seem to be getting. just keep insisting.

there _has_ to be something available for you to suit your needs, especially if you live in BC. just keep looking and telling the professionals around you you need something more beyond what you are getting now. the squeeky wheel gets the grease. don't let up on this. it's your life and you know what you need, you just need some help to get it.

what you can also do is call up the local mental health services (i did this where i live) and at first i didn't think there was anything to suit my needs, but as it turned out there was a weekly support group that meets. call them up and see what programs they have available. if they don't have anything that seems like a good fit, ask them where else you might try.

i hope this gives you a bit of hope. i think a weekly support group would be just the thing for you.


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## Into The Light

sorry about my post just now, i just realized i didn't read your reply properly healthbound and that you do actually have options for groups etc. so it is not an issue of not being heard by the people/professionals around you. i hope all goes well and that you find something soon to suit your needs.


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## healthbound

Thanks TL and bbc.

TL, I forgot about noticing the life and beauty that exists around me in this moment.  I'll practice noticing tonight.

bbc, I e-mailed a mood disorder organization in my province asking if there was any meetings in my area. I don't know anything about them, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

[edit]Yes, I believe there are groups around me...I think it's more a matter of discovering where, when and who they are.[/edit]


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## healthbound

So, I've been trying to stay more "present" over the past few hours and I have to say, I'm feeling a bit more grounded (this is good).

I didn't hear back from the mood disorder organization about the meetings in my area, but I'm assuming I'll hear back from them in the next couple of days.

I see my GP tomorrow, so I know I'll be going for a batch of new blood tests to rule out or identify a whole slue of other physical issues. I'm hoping we can identify something soon. I've read a bit more about fibromyalgia now and am going to ask him about that and lyme disease.

I'll also tell him that my moods have been swinging pretty severely and that I've been having increased suicidal ideation.

And thank G-d, I see my therapist on Friday. I will definitely talk to her about groups within her organization to see if I can get into something fairly quickly.

I also e-mailed a friend who's in AA and asked if I could borrow one of her "Big Books". She said I can pick it up tomorrow.

And lastly, I'm trying to remember that this is temporary. This is a bad time for me. That's all it is. A bad time. It is not the rest of my life or an indicator of what the rest of my life will be like. _(Thanks)_


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## ^^Phoenix^^

healthbound  said:
			
		

> TL, I forgot about noticing the life and beauty that exists around me in this moment.  I'll practice noticing tonight.



HB, It really does take practise. attempting to change your view of things is hard, espeshially when you are feeling the way you are. When you are about to 'practise' (can be when ever, - I usually do it when I notice I'm feeling ultra down (probably shouldn't wait that long, but hey ho)) put yourself in a possition where you are surrounded by things you may percieve as miricals. For me its always outside. Feeling the wind to me is a gift, seeing the starts in the quiet is a gift. sitting in the rain, for me, I love it, and its amazing - Water! Falling From the Sky!! (I know this may sound patronizing, but I do. - I sit there and make myself see what I usually miss, the feelings are amazement and wonder, and It lightens my mood. Even sitting in the mud, and smelling the dirt.) When I give my senses this gift and when I acknowlege what I'm experiancing, it eases the pain I'm feeling.


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## healthbound

Wow....what a great post, Phoenix. Seriously.

Ironically, comfortzone has been logging on over the past few days and he once told me about a time when he would help a friend by describing the trees and the wind. The way you wrote your post reminded me of that.

I even feel a bit emotional (I really have to start reading "The Highly Sensitive Person"!).

Anyway, I'm on my way to see my doctor, but I thougth I'd do a quick post before I leave. I'll update more later (I got an e-mail from my dad's wife I wanted to tell you guys about too).


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## ThatLady

I'll be looking forward to the update, healthbound. I hope everything goes well.


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## foghlaim

me also...  what T L said!!  

later H.B


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## healthbound

The doc said to tell my therapist about feeling suicidal and to make another appointment with the psych. Although, he believes that this recent depressive episode has to do with the situation with my dad more than it does with medication. My therapist echoed that last week and I know a few of you guys have suggested that too.

This situation with my dad is a really big deal. It's the root of many other things. I'm goin' for the jugular when dealing with this one. Actually, that's a horrible analogy. Hm. I'm accessing the seed of the rotted fruit. Nope, that doesn't work either. Uhhh...it's...it's...it's...the well....well, it is what it is. It's a core issue for me that many of my most destructive and painful thoughts, feelings and behaviors have evolved from.

Wow. Now that I actually call it what it is...I think I can better connect with why I'd be struggling to stay with my thoughts and feelings right now. This is a pretty big deal for me.

Anyway, gotta go....making a late dinner. Thanks for listening.


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## foghlaim

"Wow. Now that I actually call it what it is...I think I can better connect with why I'd be struggling to stay with my thoughts and feelings right now. This is a pretty big deal for me."

maybe you just had an "AHA" moment there HB... hope it feels good... 
stay with that feeling and smile.. be proud of yourself..  i am proud for you.

enjoy the dinner..


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## healthbound

Thanks nsa ...hopefully I will be able to stay with it.

I feel like I've already drifted tho. I seem to be feeling incredibly sad tonight.

For some reason over the past few weeks, my ex boyfriend (I'll call him "xbf") has been on my mind. I think it's because of two things: 1) the conversation with my dad and the potential disintegration of my relationship with him and 2) the fact that I met another guy that I kind of felt a bit of a connection with.

I broke up with xbf just before I went back to work. I was feeling a number of things at the time and at the time, I believed I was making the right decision. Now I feel really sad and I miss him a lot and wonder if I made a big mistake.

Perhaps it's normal for everyone to go through this periodically. But for some reason I'm really really missing him. Also, I feel a bit odd that I don't recall going through much of a sadness after I broke up with him. Probably because I was returning to work and really had to focus all my attention and energy there. But, even then...when I was at work, I noticed that I even felt guilty about looking at other guys even though I was technically single. It's almost like I made the decision to break it off with xbf and then went on living as if we were still together. I broke up with him mostly because I felt that I couldn't give him what he wanted/needed and felt like I was almost holding him hostage. This is because he met me just before I went into my depression and stood by me, but it lasted way longer than either of us ever imagined it would. I didn't feel like it was fair to him. We lived in the same city when we began dating, but later he moved back to where he was from (in the next province over) and therefore it became a long distance relationship. That didn't bother me a lot because I was so busy working on my depression and health while he was starting a business. Later though, I felt lonely though. And then even later, I began to feel guilty because even though I know he was totally committed and loyal, I felt like my depression was not only holding me hostage, but him also. I knew he was meeting many new people and was at an exciting point in his life with his success and I felt like I was denying him the opportunity to potentially meet local women without depression.

That's one side of why I broke up with him.

The other is that I felt like it was a time when he would accept me breaking up with him. And I know this paragraph is going to sound bizarrely opposite of the one above, but there were times when I felt like I didn't care if we were together or not, but didn't break it off because a) I didn't know if that was simply because of my depression or b) because of how he reacted the first time I broke up with him.

The first time I broke up with him he was very sad and didn't let it go. He kept calling and got friends to talk to me and even involved my son at one point which made me extremely angry.

And maybe I just made the connection again --- the way I feel about the situation with xbf is similar to how I feel about my dad. I feel extreme sadness about them not loving me anymore. I feel confused about whether I believe my relationship with them is healthy or not healthy. I feel confused about what the best thing for me to do is.

But then again, I happened to see one of my highschool boyfriends (who is now married with kids) recently. We didn't talk...I just happened to see him as I was driving past. I quickly remembered how I cared so much for him and I knew how much he cared about me. He was definitely into me, great looking and was a really "good guy". I don't recall why I broke up with him, but I did. We still spoke often and during one phone call, he told me he was dating someone else and I was crushed.

But, how rediculous to be crushed when _I was the one who broke up with him?!_

Anyway, I felt the same when I spoke to xbf a couple of nights ago. It sounds like there's someone else. And why shouldn't there be. He's an awesome guy and one of the big reasons I broke it off was so that he could meet someone.

I don't know. Maybe I was secretly wishing that he would spend some time "alone" and decide that he still did love me regardless of my depression. I know he thinks he felt like that when we were together, but I still felt guilty because he had this great bunch of friends who all know and care about each other and are social etc and here I was in a total depression, continually gaining weight and never flying out to see him on his turf.

Now I feel like that was a stupid decision because I did and do love him.

But then again, when I stop and think about it, I would still feel guilty. For some reason I feel that because I have depression, I'm not worth loving. Actually, scrap that...I think I felt like this before I realized that I could have depressive episodes without a trauma preceding them...it's just that now I feel it even deeper.

I couldn't handle my mom's depression. Her own parents legally disowned her because of her behaviors. She was fired from jobs because of it. And now it's happening to me too.

But, she has a husband and he loves her and she loves him very much and they seem truly happy. So, why would I think that couldn't happen for me?

Anyway...lot's going on in my mind and I've rambled as usual. I feel like I don't know what's happening to me. Like I'm totally falling apart. But, I'm going to keep writing (even though I almost _always _ regret showing so much of myself later).

I'm hoping that writing will help me work through some of this crap.


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## Halo

HB

As you know I don't have any great words of wisdom to offer today as I feel that we are in the same boat with broken oars and trying to stay afloat. 

I really hope that you don't regret posting your thoughts and feelings because just by reading your writings you are helping me more than you know and I think that it is nice to see someone who I can relate to. Thank you for showing so much of yourself. I truly appreciate it 

Take care


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## healthbound

heh heh. I just began my menst. cycle.  :red:

This will be the second cycle that I will have gone through without the hydrochlorothiazide in over a decade. I'm still adjusting. Also...get this...I just came back from my doctor's (yes, again) because of some very bizarre symptoms I thought were related to my effexor. Instead, I learned that hydrochlorothiazide was also used to treat vertigo. Apparently, something I'm experiencing now. The fun just never ends, huh. At least I can now just tell myself that I don't need to drink ---I already feel like I'm spinning! 

Nancy - 
Thank you for replying. I find much comfort in knowing that other people have similar experiences (although I'd never wish those experiences on anyone!). I'm actually grateful that you read throught the entire thing (I didn't realize how long my last post was :red.

I went to my therapist today and she reminded me that I asserted myself with my dad and therefore his reaction got stronger. She also reminded me that this was a huge step I took with him and that it makes sense that my reaction is self doubt and self punishment --given the history.

The she reminded me to drink water and stay connected to what is real (very similar to what TL and phoenix mentioned in earlier replies). I'm going to continue to notice what is real around me and try to stay connected to those things because I seem to be experiencing so much confusion and self doubt lately.

I also heard back from the Mood Disorder organization. They have meetings every Tuesday and Thursday not too far from here. I'll check one out on Tuesday.

I'm going to go lay down now cause I feel a bit sick to my stomach.

I'm really glad that I found psychlinks and that I have made some real friends here. Thank you.


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## ThatLady

There are other medications to treat vertigo if the vertigo becomes a chronic problem, healthbound. There are new things that might be of help to you without the side-effects of HCT.

How encouraging to find there are group meetings for mood disorders being held near you! I'll be anxious to know what you find there!


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## Cat Dancer

That's great about finding the information for the meetings. I hope you can begin to feel better soon, physically and emotionally. I'm glad you're keeping on writing here. I can relate to the feelings of regret about it. I always feel that way. I don't want to, but I do. No one here is going to be hard on you or think less of you though. 

Life is a like a ride on some crazy roller coaster.  And sometimes I feel like I'm not buckled in right.


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## healthbound

> Life is a like a ride on some crazy roller coaster. And sometimes I feel like I'm not buckled in right.



HAHA!!! Janet...that is THE best line I've heard in a long time. That's EXACTLY life feels sometimes. Perfect.



> I'm glad you're keeping on writing here. I can relate to the feelings of regret about it. I always feel that way. I don't want to, but I do.


I know. And in some ways, I feel like we are experiencing some similar dynamics in our lives regarding how we relate to ourselves within specific relationships too. I guess it's the nature of trying to bust through parts of denial and figuring out what's honestly best for us and our kids. It's really challenging sometimes.



> There are other medications to treat vertigo if the vertigo becomes a chronic problem, healthbound. There are new things that might be of help to you without the side-effects of HCT.


Ya, the HCT had some pretty deadly side effects for me. It's sure is amazing that a simple water pill could do so much. I think it's good though...maybe some of this is even connected to my body aches? We'll see.



> How encouraging to find there are group meetings for mood disorders being held near you! I'll be anxious to know what you find there!


Me too! I'm hoping it's a bunch of nuts like me just trying to figure out how to get buckled in right!!!!!

Ahhh. At least my sense of humour is coming back. Thank G-d.


----------



## David Baxter PhD

HB, I think what you've learned today gives you some new directions to explore and some reason to be optimistic about getting your symptoms under control. I know that some times when everything is happening at once, it's difficult to stay on target and optimistic but the reality is that if you can manage to keep "holding on just one minute longer" and putting one foot in front of the other, eventually progress is inevitable and you _will_ emerge back into the sunlight again.


----------



## Cat Dancer

healthbound  said:
			
		

> Life is a like a ride on some crazy roller coaster. And sometimes I feel like I'm not buckled in right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA!!! Janet...that is THE best line I've heard in a long time. That's EXACTLY life feels sometimes. Perfect.
Click to expand...


 He he. 



> in some ways, I feel like we are experiencing some similar dynamics in our lives regarding how we relate to ourselves within specific relationships too. I guess it's the nature of trying to bust through parts of denial and figuring out what's honestly best for us and our kids. It's really challenging sometimes.



It is challenging and it's like being in some kind of hell at times. Sometimes I want to *be* a child and have someone really take care of me and love me. It's a lot of responsibility, worth it, but it's hard. 

Just try to hang in there and we're here whenever you need to talk.


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## healthbound

> HB, I think what you've learned today gives you some new directions to explore and some reason to be optimistic about getting your symptoms under control. I know that some times when everything is happening at once, it's difficult to stay on target and optimistic but the reality is that if you can manage to keep "holding on just one minute longer" and putting one foot in front of the other, eventually progress is inevitable and you will emerge back into the sunlight again.


Thanks Dr Baxter. Exactly...just hold on one minute longer...one step in front of the other. I like sunlight and want to be in it.



> Just try to hang in there and we're here whenever you need to talk.


Thanks Janet.


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## Into The Light

hi healthbound, don't worry about the length of your post - you have a lot on your mind and one of the best ways to work things out is to write it out and get it out of your system. i think it makes sense your dad reacted strongly to you asserting yourself since he's not used to that. it has more of an impact when it is unexpected. i can also understand your confusion around your ex-boyfriend, your reasoning is exactly what mine would have been were i in your situation. it's a lot of loss you're dealing with right now. but, there is hope. you're making progress by all the steps you are taking. i am so glad you have been seeing your doctor and your therapist and are getting input from them. i am also glad you heard back from the mood disorder organization. i hope it goes well when you go to the first meeting. may it be that first small ray of that sunlight for you


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## Halo

Hi HB

I don't think that your post was too long as I know what it is like to have so many things going on in the brain and just feeling like you need to get them out or my brain is going to explode. I do that a lot and sometimes post very lengthy on here sometimes and you should see the mini-novels that I send my psych :red:  I am actually surprised that he reads them thoroughly. I do know that he does because he will either responds to each point in a reply email (if he has time) or we talk about most of them in my next session. Now I try not to feel guilty for posting or emailing long because I figure if people don't want to or can't read it than that is fine, I am doing it more for me to get my thoughts out of my own head. No shame in that (as I am learning).

I am also interested in hearing about how the meeting on Tuesday goes. Please keep us updated.

Take Care


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## healthbound

I'm feeling uncomfortably sad today (errr...is feeling sad ever comfortable?).

I find I'm "phasing in and out" about the disturbing state of my life. I do not like my life at all right now and it is no where near what I want it to be like. I don't like how I feel and I don't like where I'm at. I've noticed that I've been feeling less and less hopeful about things. About finances, my physical health, my mental health and about any connection with people.

I also find that I feel like I'm grieving the loss of my xbf. For some reason, a huge part of me figured that I could would probably be back together with him at some point. However, as I mentioned previously, he's moved on. I am actually happy for him but also a part of me is sad and letting go of him. Why I didn't do it 5 months ago...I don't know.

I'm sure it has to do with this whole situation with my dad.

I've also been thinking a bit more about my therapist saying I self punish and distortedly see the other person as totally "good" and "right" and me as "bad" and "wrong" (or more accurately...of no value or worth, not loveable and completely crazy).

I remind myself that this period of my life (I was not always like this) is not indicative of the rest of my life. But it doesn't seem to compute. I can't grasp the concept, because I can't seem to see how things could change or get better (like, seriously, how am I supposed to continue to be a good mom, deal with my depression AND financially support us on a part-time or no-time job with no help?!).

I long to be happy again. I miss being productive. I miss being a "superstar". I miss having people in my life. I miss having fun, being active, making money, being fit, being confident, moving forward, learning and being attractive. I've always been a pretty dynamic person with diverse interests and many friends. I've always had exciting careers. Now, I am overweight, unhappy, sick, unmotivated, alone and only capable of working part time --IF that. Like, how in the heck did I get here!?!

Guess, I'm wallowing in self pity. I just feel frustrated because I've been dealing with this crap head on for 2 years, now and am realizing that maybe this isn't a phase at all. Maybe this is how I'm going to be for the rest of my life. Why don't I feel like I have any control over that? And wasn't I better off in my career enveloped denial?

I wish I could figure out how to deal with my health _and _ work and date and be a good mom and take care of my health all at the same time. Shouldn't I be focusing on building skills that will help me deal with my crap AND work at the same time BEFORE I delve into all this core stuff? It's simply not realistic and it's not going to work.

Awk. But, then again, I can't seem to work either. So, nevermind everything I just said. Or is my doctor just a numbnut and I actually can work. Haha. Nice. I'm in a real mood tonight.

I think I'm wondering why I put so much into THEIR opinion of what I can/should and can't/shouldn't do? Can't I determine whether I'm healthy enough to work again? Even though my doctor says I can't work full time...could I? Well, actually, I did think that before and tried it. But, I only ended up back at work for 2 months before having to go back on leave again.

My problem is that I need to somehow make my financial life work so that I can have an extended period of time where I can actually stay focused on my mental and physical health without the daunting stresses of the freakin money.

Or maybe I need to learn how to be stressed out about money, but still allow myself to focus on other things too. Like, compartmentalize or something. Man, this whole working on yourself is really challenging sometimes.


----------



## ThatLady

You're so right, healthbound. It IS very difficult! Sometimes, it seems like depression is all that will ever be; like there will never be sunshine again. I remember those times. I'm sure others do, as well. Yet, today there is sunshine in my life. It's there every day. The depression and all that went with it is behind me.

It took longer than two years for me to get here. It took closer to seven years to completely beat the demon into submission. It can be done, but it isn't easy and it isn't always quick. Some can do it in less time than others.

Raising kids alone and trying to make a living while undergoing the strain of depression is tantamount to climbing Mt. Everest with an anchor tied to your backside. We might as well just admit that. It gets easier, but it takes awhile. First, we have to get a handle on what we need to do to be able to deal with the stress of earning a living. You tried to go back to work but weren't able to take the pressure. That doesn't mean you're a failure. It just means the depression won that round. Now, begins round two. You keep fighting, and you keep trying, and you keep writing down your feelings. You reach out for support when you need it, and you do what you can. That's the most that can be asked of anyone.

Hugs to you, healthbound. I can feel your pain, believe me.


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## healthbound

Hi TL,
Thanks for writing what you did. I found it inspiring and motivating. It gave me some hope.

If you're comfortable, would you mind sharing some of your experiences around those seven years battling the demon? I need to hear how at least one person has been where I am and has made it through. If even just ONE other person has done it...then, I know I can do it too.

I have been feeling like I'm one "those" who just isn't "getting it". 



> Raising kids alone and trying to make a living while undergoing the strain of depression is tantamount to climbing Mt. Everest with an anchor tied to your backside. We might as well just admit that.


There's no way I could have said it any better myself!!!! Ain't that the truth.

Somehow it makes it easier when someone else acknowledges it though.

Hm. I just remembered that I used to perceive myself as strong. Strong, because I was keeping up with 'normal folk' _and _ being a healthy mom despite my past or current situation. I was able to acknowledge and accept my situation and keep living/moving forward anyway. But, I've been struggling to do this lately.

I've been so angry at my dad and step mom's perceptions of me ---and yet, I've adopted them. I'm not saying that I think I'm worthy of a medal or anything, but even some acknowledgment from someone else that what I'm doing IS challenging seems to fuel and motivate me. I feel like I can keep going if I at least have acknowledgment .

And again, I just remembered that my sister used to provide that for me.
Maybe it's ok to find other ways to aquire awknowledgement now.

Why would it be so hard for my parents to just awknowledge me and how hard I've worked (and how hard I continue to work)? Or maybe a better question is why do I care about WHAT they think so much. Grrr. I don't like that. I would like _ME _ to become stronger than _what other's think of me_ is.


----------



## Into The Light

hi healthbound i think we all struggle with what others think of us. it's only natural that you worry about what your parents think of you. you love your parents, regardless of how crappy they make you feel. of course you want their support. if you don't get it, in your mind it translates to them not loving you and that you aren't worthy of their love. it hurts when they won't acknowledge anything. however, hopefully in reality they do love you and you will be able to see that in time, despite them not wanting to acknowledge things. someone mentioned before that it just might be too painful for them to accept your situation because it reminds them of your sister. denial can be very powerful.

you will become stronger. you've got our support in your struggle. i think anyone who survives depression has become a stronger person for it. i myself feel me getting stronger every day. i know once all this is over i am going to be the person i want to be. i will be strong, i won't worry about what others think, only my beliefs on who i am will matter. it is what you want and you will get there with the help of your support network.


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## healthbound

Thanks, bbc. That was a nice post.

I long to be in a place where I am confident with my real self --enough so that I don't worry so much about what anyone (including my parents) think, say or do.

I know I have a lot of anger towards them. And a LOT of sadness and confusion around many of the things they (more specifically, my dad) have done. I'm sure that much of it will never make sense to me. So, it would be nice to somehow make peace about it within myself somehow. I cannot change them or how they interact with me.

As for the denial because of my sister theory...I thought that too. But then I remembered that this goes back far before her death. We were scared and lonely and had very little direction or guidance. It was challenging. I'm sure they did the best they could, but I'm still angry. I actually thought my sister's death would have been a wake up call for them. But it wasn't. Their personalities and priorities were just different than those that are most conducive to parenting. They probably did the best they could...and that's all a horse can do.

I don't even think it's that that's bothering me so much. It's more that he does things that I don't necessarily think are "right" and then he blames _me _ for it. Like it was my fault and I deserved it.

If he doesn't want to be supportive...then, so be it. But you don't have to lash out at me or try to make it my fault some how. Obviously if I'm suicidal, I'm already feeling pretty crappy about myself and don't need any help in that area.

I don't know...I'm just an angry kid that had some really crummy things happen. I'm just trying to make some sense of it so I can hopefully stop reliving it all and start living more in the present.

lol...maybe I'm just the bratty kid who's never happy and is always throwing tantrums and telling on everyone.

But, clearly it's not helping me to continue carrying all this crap around with me and I need to unload it. I guess that's what I've been doing here lately.


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## Into The Light

hi healthbound, if this goes back to way before your sister's death, then that probably isn't the reason they won't acknowledge things. all that i can think of at this point is that your dad just doesn't know any different. he probably grew up in the same environment that you have. patterns repeat themselves from one generation to the next unless you try to break out of them. his parents probably treated him in the same way. that causes a lot of anger in a person. women tend to keep anger inside (leading to depression) and men tend to act it out on others. i think this is why he treats you the way he does. it doesn't excuse his behaviour but maybe it'll help you accept things a bit better. you'll get all this sorted out in time, i have faith in you . just keep coming here for a sounding board.


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## David Baxter PhD

The reality is that some people are just lousy parents - either because of circumstances or because of character traits and/or flaws. All you can do is look at your father for who he is, recognize that he is not and never has been the kind of father you wanted to have, and recognize that there is not and never was anything you can do to change him into the kind of father you wish you could have had or could have now.

This isn't about you. It never was. This is about him.


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## Halo

HI HB

I agree with David here when he says that it is not about you and never was. I know for myself that I need to come to terms with realizing that my parents did the best they could with the knowledge and parenting skills that they had however it was just not enough for me. I also recently realized that I have a lot of deep routed anger towards them that I am going to have to work through. 

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and I can relate.

Take care.


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## ThatLady

I'll be glad to share a few of my experiences with you, healthbound.

The first three years of my recovery from the dive into depression were spent in therapy. I started with single therapy three times a week. I was a right mess! I couldn't think, wouldn't eat, didn't want to leave the house, but didn't really recognize that I was depressed. I just didn't want to bother. Nothing mattered much.

I was still married to an abusive, arrogant man at the time. He was anything but supportive, but he wasn't worried about the therapy. He figured his hold on me was strong enough, and he was smart enough to offset anything some mere psychiatrist could come up with. For awhile, he was right. Then, I began group therapy as an adjunct to seeing the psychiatrist once weekly for CBT. Some things began to take root, as I saw others struggling with similar problems and picked up new ideas, and new views of the world around me.

After a short time, I realized I had to leave the man. I dreaded losing the children, since they were his by a former marriage, but I was no good to them the way I had been and the only way to become more than I was was to get out from under his control. So I took the plunge and Lo and Behold the kids came with ME! He blustered and threatened, but the kids were adamant and so was I. He realized he didn't have a prayer in court if, and when, it all came out. The kids and I became a family.

My grandmother, although I love her dearly, is a control freak. She has a huge influence on my life and always has. She was meddling...again. So, I cut her off. We didn't speak for nearly two years, while I struggled with my own identity and learned ways to counteract her controlling influence. Once I felt strong enough, contact was reestablished and the relationship changed to fit the "new me". I could tell her when she was stepping into areas that weren't her domain, and she'd reluctantly back off. We were both learning, and growing. Now, she lives with my mother and I and her "control issues", while not completely anihilated, are kept in check through her own efforts and mine. If she begins to tell me how I should live my life, I stop her gently and explain that this will be done MY WAY. It's not always easy, but it does work.

During this healing time, I went back to school to further my education and began working in healthcare administration as opposed to bedside care, which I didn't find to be my "niche". That's worked out beautifully, as it allows me to help not only patients and their families, but healthcare workers as well. It's a rewarding thing to do, for me.

I can't say it was easy. I had two kids I was trying to raise (albeit, they weren't that young. My husband was a good deal older than I), a household to support, bills to be paid, and a need to work even when I didn't really feel I wanted to face the day. That was hard. Sometimes, it took all I had to get up and get into the office. At an earlier time, during the peak of my therapy time, I couldn't have done it. Yet, the coping skills I learned through therapy were invaluable. I was still involved with group therapy, and I credit that with much of my growth, since I had others (not just the doctor) to bounce ideas off of and to learn from. They'd had experiences they could share, and I'd had experiences I could share. We supported one another.

Money was often tight, and we had to budget closely. The kids helped, and felt they were being productive by doing so. My son went into the Navy and that's about the time I found out my daughter is bipolar. She tried to commit suicide. That set me back, and I returned to the psychiatrist once a week, since I felt I should be able to stop this! It took him awhile to get across to me that I could not. All I could do was offer love and support and hope she'd rally. Thankfully, she did. It's been a tough road for her, but she's on medications and gets therapy herself, and is doing so much better now than I could have hoped. The worry of losing her is a thing of the past. Yet, I am well aware that if she should relapse, there is nothing I can do but give love and support. I cannot change what is. I can only mitigate my reactions and actions. We cannot change another, and we cannot control what another might do. We must simply accept that we are in control of nobody other than ourselves and our own lives. We may love them, but we must let them go.

Now, my mother, my grandmother and I are three old bats in a house full of cats, and things go very well most of the time. I have a job I love, and a business I love, and things are much easier to deal with even when they don't go as I might like them to. There are days when I'm not feeling as competent as I might on other days, but I think that's normal for everyone. We have our ups and downs. The one thing I've learned is to put the past behind me...that's where it belongs...and live in today while planning for tomorrow. It's with this attitude that I beat back the demon when it threatens the door. It, after all, is a thing of the past.


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## Halo

TL

I know that you shared those experiences for the benefit of HB mostly but I just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!!. Hearing from someone who has been through the beginnings of therapy and the work necessary to lead a happy and productive life is wonderful and great. You give me the courage to continue on this road to recovery.

Again thanks....you are definitely special and courageous in my eyes.


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## ThatLady

If my experiences can be of help, I'm glad to share them. The one lesson that is very important to take home from all this is that therapy really does work! Sure, we have to put in our share of the work, but we need the guidance of a professional to direct that work toward positive, working goals. It's a journey, as we've said so many times. The destination is well worth all the difficulties inherent in the travelling.


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## healthbound

You are right. It's not about me. It's about him. And that's all there really is to it.

The past is the past. That's all it is. The past. It's just the past.

The present is the here and now and is the only thing I can influence or change. The more I stay "in my head" about the past, the more it takes me away from enjoying anything in the present. And the less I can connect with my son and myself. The less control over my life I have.

I need to make some serious changes in my life now. I feel that things have really been coming to an abrupt halt lately. I'm feeling closer and closer to death and I feel like I really need to do something now before I do something really stupid.

I'm emotional and sad alot of the time lately.....ok. But, does that mean I need to destroy my life? My behaviors are increasingly destructive and it's scaring me.

Like...who cares what my dad's like. In the grand scheme of thing...I'd like to focus on my own life and get back on track raising my son the way I'm happy with (ie: not sleeping in, not drinking and ultimately not depressed). I don't want him to perceive that this is the way one deals with life.

I feel pretty disappointed in myself. But, at least I'm starting to feel like I DO have some control here. I don't want to be victim to my emotions and distortions. I want to live in the present and move forward now. I'm sick of feeling like this and like I said, I'm scared that I'm so close to doing so many destructive things.

TL...I haven't read what you wrote about your experiences yet...I wanted to "vent" first. I've got to go pick my son up and then I've asked a friend to take me to an AA meeting tonight.

I'll log on later (after about 10pm my time) though.

Thanks again for all the support.


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## ThatLady

Goodness gracious! Don't feel disappointed in yourself, healthbound! That was quite a statement you just wrote, and the sentiments expressed there are something you should be proud to stand up and shout to the world, girl! It's darned hard to face our own faults. It's darned hard to put the past behind us and leave it there. It's darned hard to realize that the parents we wish we had aren't the parents we have and just go on with our lives. All of this is darned hard; yet, who's doing it? You are!

It's time for proud! You go, girl! :yahoo:


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## healthbound

Thanks, TL


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## ThatLady

Thank yourself, superwoman!


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## Into The Light

healthbound, those are some amazing statements you've made! and you are right - you DO have control. YOU decide on how you are going to react to what life throws at you. no one else decides for you how you feel or what you think or what you are going to do. you're boss.  this is the big message i've learned myself in the past couple of weeks and it has made a huge difference in my attitude. you're on your way!


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## David Baxter PhD

There's nothing weak or immature or childish about struggling with a poor relationship with a parent, healthbound. When one has a dysfunctional parental relationship, it is extrfemely hard to let it go - most of us keep fighting for years trying to "force" it to work. That's the nature of a relationship with a parent - it's supposed to be close and loving and safe and special, and when it isn't we tend to look at ourselves as the cause and try to figure out how to change ourselves to make it work. But that is almost never the issue, as you are bit by bit discovering.


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## ^^Phoenix^^

Good luck with that HB, Your stronger than I on that point, thats for sure!!
lol


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## healthbound

Thanks. I'm experiencing a wide range of emotions from day to day (and even from hour to hour sometimes).

I went to an AA meeting last night. It was really good. I saw some people I hadn't seen in over a decade (I started going to AA when I was 15, finally got clean and sober at 17 and then I began drinking again when I was 24 shortly after my sister took her life).

More importantly, it was comforting to be around a group of people that have had some similar experiences as me. It was also really good just to be around people. If I stay connected to people, it's more difficult for me to take my life.

The only problem is that I'm not sure if I "really" belong there. I know I use alcohol to escape. But I also use food, computer, business etc. Does that make me an alcoholic? Not sure.

What I KNOW is that I'm sinking further and further into self pity and depression. What I know is that I've been dramatically increasing my alcohol intake in the last while and that is when I am absolutely at THE highest risk for following through with taking my life.

Therefore, I KNOW the LAST thing I should be doing is drinking, but I still do it anyway. Same with the eating. I KNOW I shouldn't eat what I do and at what time I do because it makes me feel worse about myself and puts more weight on me...but, I keep doing it.

So, while I'm struggling with whether that "qualifies" me to be there (The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking...I don't even know if I have that...I just don't want to abuse it, but I'm not sure if that means I'm an alcoholic or not).

Anyway, so I feel a bit awkward or even a bit guilty. But, I think I'll figure it out along the way because right now, it's helping me.


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## Into The Light

hi healthbound, i am glad you went and that you connected to others at the meeting yesterday. sounds like you may have found something helpful to you 

as for whether or not you're qualified to be there - the fact is, drinking is dangerous for you right now. AA seems like a good place to get help with that. also as you said you are connected to other people. something you really need right now. do you think you will also still go to one of the meetings from the mood disorder organization? just for additional support?


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## Cat Dancer

I think you should go to the meetings if they're helping you right now. It is good to be around people and be connected.


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## Halo

HB

When I read this part of your post it was like seeing exactly what I do also.



			
				healthbound  said:
			
		

> Therefore, I KNOW the LAST thing I should be doing is drinking, but I still do it anyway. Same with the eating. I KNOW I shouldn't eat what I do and at what time I do because it makes me feel worse about myself and puts more weight on me...but, I keep doing it.



I know all to well that for me I use many things to the extreme to escape the feelings that I have like alcohol, pills, food, purging etc. but I am not sure whether that qualifies me to say that I am an alcohol, drug addict or have an eating disorder. To me at this moment I don't think that I am any of the above but I guess it will not be until after dealing in therapy with the feelings and thoughts that are causing me to feel the need to escape will I really know whether these methods of escape are a real problem for me. It may be that they are but right now I am not sure and that is okay to be not sure.

I hope that made sense because I re-wrote it a few times to try and be clear as it is like I knew in my head what I wanted to say but the words weren't coming out right. 

Right now if you think that by going to AA meetings and being around supportive people is going to help you than I say that there is nothing wrong with that and you doing what is best for you whether you think that you belong there or not. It is going to help and that is the main thing at this point. 

Take Care HB


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## ^^Phoenix^^

I aggree HB - if you find it helpful, thats what they are there for. In addition, people at AA obviously have their own deamons to work on and are generally attempting to be non judgemental.


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## ThatLady

I agree with the others, healthbound. If AA helps you, and if you use alcohol as an escape which negatively impacts your life in any way, you belong there. Besides, as you say, it gives you a social support system that understands where you're coming from and accepts you as you are.


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## Holly

Hi healthbound,
I just wanted to say I support what make you happy, if going to the meetings is important and helpful. Then I support you for doing that for your well being! 
I wanted you to know that, it is hard to have supports in place at times, everyone needs them.   Take care and all the best, I will be thinking of you.


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## healthbound

Thanks everyone.

This last week has been so much different than the last 2 weeks. I'm feeling much more in control of my thoughts, feelings and actions.

I took some actions that would directly affect the part of me that wanted to take my life (went to an AA meeting where I knew I would find support and friends, got a bike which I knew would get me out of my house and get me excercising, went to the Mood Disorder meeting today where I knew I would find support and talked openly about how I was feeling at therapy).

When I saw my therapist, we talked more about my relationship with my dad. She suggested that I write down everything I wish I could say to my dad and his wife. She explained that when I something happens with them, I punish myself...to the point of death. I felt sad when I realized that.

I'd like to allocate --or at least be conscious of-- what I'm actually angry and sad about instead of habitually directing it towards myself.

Somehow these awareness?s feel somewhat freeing.


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## David Baxter PhD

That sounds like significant forward movement to me, HB.

When one's relationship with a parent is toxic, it is astounding how much damage it can do, over and over again, until one reaches the point where one is able to lay the responsibility for that where it really lies - squarely on the shoulders of the parent, where it always belonged.

It is sad that he could not and cannot be a father to you. But in some ways it is sadder for him than for you - he has missed out on being part of your life, the life of his daughter. Sad for you; a tragedy for him that he will never even understand. He is a fool.


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## healthbound

Aww. Wow. Thanks Dr Baxter. It is sad for me, but you are right. It is a tragedy for him that he will never even understand.

That's the gift my sister and my son have given to me. The gift to really know and understand love.

I'm lucky.


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## Into The Light

healthbound you are making good progress. it good to see you're moving away from your suffering. i can relate to the feeling of your new way of viewing things is freeing. feels good doesn't it? 

you did awesome for taking control of your life and taking all the steps you have. i am so very proud of you for going beyond just going to meetings (you mentioned your bike). that takes tremendous effort. i'm not sure i would have done as much as you have. it's so easy to not want to make changes. you did very very well. well done.


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## ThatLady

Healthbound, it's so wonderful to hear so much positivity from you! You've really done some awesome work! I'm so very happy things are turning around for you. It was a big bump, but you climbed over it just fine! :yahoo:


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## ^^Phoenix^^

HB, I am also glad to hear that you are working through your thoughts and feelings about your father. Its so difficult with parents, because (for me anyway) I always seem to revert to how I felt about them 'back then'. Keep up the good work. You seem focused on your goals right now which is great. 
 :flowers:


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## David Baxter PhD

> Its so difficult with parents, because (for me anyway) I always seem to revert to how I felt about them 'back then'.



I think that's common. It doesn't matter whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60. When your father yells at you, you become 6 again.


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## Halo

HB

I too am so happy and proud of you for making some good choices for yourself that you know will help. As TL said this bump in the road was a big one but you managed to get over it and now you can focus on what you need to in therapy(i.e. your father) 

Congrats....you are doing such good work and sounding more and more positive :yahoo: :goodjob:


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## Halo

> I think that's common. It doesn't matter whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60. When your father yells at you, you become 6 again.



I agree with this completely but for me I become 16 with a teenage attitude like you can't tell me what to do.....wow... those teenage years, don't want to re-live those again


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## ThatLady

I gotta agree with David. I think everybody reverts to childhood in the presence of an angry parent. Both my grandmother and my mother live with me, so I have to keep up a constant effort to ensure that they don't overwhelm my adulthood! Fortunately, mother is very easy going, but my grandmother is a control freak. It can get a little ...scary around here every now and then.


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## ^^Phoenix^^

Nancy  said:
			
		

> I think that's common. It doesn't matter whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60. When your father yells at you, you become 6 again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this completely but for me I become 16 with a teenage attitude like you can't tell me what to do.....wow... those teenage years, don't want to re-live those again
Click to expand...


I revert to the teenager too, It must be the age that the emotional hurt occured most? or started maybe?


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## David Baxter PhD

Phoenix said:
			
		

> I revert to the teenager too, It must be the age that the emotional hurt occured most? or started maybe?



I was exaggerating a bit about 6, probably, although it depends on the situation. I suspect late childhood or early adolescence is common (except perhaps where the parent was overtly abusive and there are some PTSD features) because that's when most of us will begin to question why things are the way they are - younger children for the most part accept anything as normal.


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## David Baxter PhD

Off-topic comments split to http://forum.psychlinks.ca/index.php?topic=5269.0.


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## healthbound

Yay! Great replies!

I'm still feeling good today. I went mountain biking all day today and was so happy I almost cried a few times. I've missed it so much. It's been a year and a half since I last went. Today was a very happy day. I felt like I was getting myself and my life back again.

Now...we'll just have to see how much muscles, joints and bones handle it. I feel stiff and a bit sore but I'm hoping it won't lay me out over the next few days.

Thank you very much for all the support, everyone.


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## Into The Light

healthbound that is great!! you sound happy! wonderful news! :yahoo:


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## ThatLady

It sounds like you had a wonderful time, healthbound, and that's just great! :yahoo:

Usually, when you engage in a physical activity you haven't done for awhile, your muscles and joints will let you know they done forgot how to do that! At least, mine always do. It's still fun.


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## Halo

HB I am so happy for you that you had a great day and that you got out biking. I am glad to see you being so positive...good work. 

Let us know how the muscles and joints hold up


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## Cat Dancer

I'm glad you had a happy day.


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## Holly

Hi healthbound,
It sounds like you enjoyed the outdoors, wow, mountain bike riding, that is a lot of fun.  You have not done it for awhile. 
I am glad you had a nice day to enjoy this activity that is so important to you. 
I hope you will get to enjoy more days with this type of excitement. 
Personally, I love camping and the mountains. 
Take care healthbound.


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## healthbound

Haha...so.....I think the mountain biking was a love/hate thing for my muscles.

I literally slept ALL weekend. I woke up last night to eat a meal, drink water and watch a movie. Went right to sleep again after that and just woke up about 20mins ago (it's 6:20pm my time).

I can't wait to get in to see that rheumatologist. 

I think I'll practice riding uphill this week to give my muscles a break.


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## ^^Phoenix^^

wait a miniute.... 'up hill' to 'give your muscles a break'?  

What you want to do is find a down hill road, and just coast... that's the kind of bike riding I do!! LOL


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## Halo

Exactly what I was thinking.....downhill means no peddling !!!


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## healthbound

Haha....yes.  I guess some flat road biking would be better.

I went to Whistler Mountain Bike Park (http://www.whistlerbike.com/index.htm) which is a beautiful mountain full of trails, jumps, drops, bridges, ladders, walls and gaps.  It's a ton of fun, but can be very strenuous too.  Lots of tensing muscles and adrenaline.  I love it, but it's definitely a serious workout.

I was thinking that something with a little less impact (although I do have a full suspension bike) and a little less adrenaline producing might be a better for now.  Duh...I hadn't even considered that it would still be very strenuous on my muscles biking up hill.  Geeze.


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## Halo

At least you have the motivation to get outside and do some biking.....can you send some of that energy and motivation this way


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## ^^Phoenix^^

healthbound said:


> Duh...I hadn't even considered that it would still be very strenuous on my muscles biking up hill.  Geeze.



Lol... see, I'm very lazy.... reading 'up hill' anything makes me automatically break out into a sweat! Lol.


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## David Baxter PhD

I didn't even get that far. I read "biking" and had to go take a nap.


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## Halo

:zzz: :zzz: 

:lol: :lmao: 

That was so funny, thanks !


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## ThatLady

David Baxter said:


> I didn't even get that far. I read "biking" and had to go take a nap.



:lol:  My sentiments, exactly! Biking? Me? I don't think I could even get on a bicycle without falling on my fanny. They say you never forget (whoever "they" are), but they don't know me. I done forgot! :


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## Into The Light

i've been thinking of you and wondering how you are doing, healthbound. are things ok?


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## healthbound

Hey baseballcap.  Thanks.

Overall, I am feeling much better than I was a while back.  I am not preoccupied with suicide anymore (Thank God).  I'm still engaging in some "risky" or destructive behaviors though (mainly drinking as I've just started a food diet to get rid of some of the extra weight I'm carrying).

Today I feel sad because it is International Suicide Prevention Day.  So, I've been thinking about my sister all week.  And I've been thinking about depression and suicide as well.  Feeling sad is OK, it's the things my body and mind does to try and avoid feeling sad that bothers me most.  Many times I can recognize what I'm doing, but other times it seem to be more of a subconscious thing.

Anyway, I'm just about to upload a few pictures of my sister on a domain I bought a while back (mysister'sname.com).  I haven't been sure about what to do with it, but I think I'll start by adding some of her photos on it.

Anyway, thanks for posting   I appreciate it.


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## ^^Phoenix^^

that sounds like a lovely way to remember her, hb.


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## Into The Light

healthbound i am glad you are making progress, that is good news to hear. one day at a time, right? 

i hope working on your sister's domain and website helps you. i think it probably will. many people dedicate websites to their loved ones as a means of remembering them. maybe you in time can write stories about her, the things that made you love her so much. just a thought.

take care :hug:


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## healthbound

Thanks Phoenix and baseballcap.  Sorry I didn't reply sooner...I'm not getting e-mail notifications for some reason.

I just created one page and felt good that I completed it by the end of National Suicide Prevention Day.  It felt good to post some pictures of her and write something very brief.  I think it will be a project that I can contribute to a little at a time.  It's a nice way for me to actively remember her.

Things have been going better.  I have noticed that I'm thinking about my future again.  I've also noticed that I've been feeling less hopeless and helpless.  I've even been interested in participating in activities that will contribute to potential future projects which is a very good sign.

On the other hand, I'm still engaging in some pretty self destructive behaviors.  It seems like I'm still experiencing extremes, but the extremes are more active rather than passive.  I feel more alive and am interested in life again which makes me believe that I'm definitely coming out of my depression, but on the other hand I have been getting very strong impulse cravings to get drunk, have sex, over-eat and engage in other erratic behaviors (I put a deposit (refundable, thank God) on a truck and almost got a tattoo).  I'm not sure if those impulse cravings are because I'm trying to escape the work I'm doing in therapy right now or maybe even because I'm so happy to finally feel alive again.

I realize the thoughts and behaviors are somewhat indicative of being manic or alcoholic, but I've never been diagnosed as manic and I'm not sure I subscribe to only being "addicted" to alcohol (ie: I have the same pattern or behaviors around other things).  Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.


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## Into The Light

hi healthbound i am glad you were able to work on your sister's website. it sounds like it'll help you heal a lot. good work 

i don't have any real feedback for the rest of your post as i don't know anything about these things. it sounds like it's a coping mechanism you have for something that's happening, maybe it is in response to the work you are doing in therapy. this is all just speculation on my part though.

maybe others have some more input?


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## David Baxter PhD

> I'm not sure if those impulse cravings are because I'm trying to escape the work I'm doing in therapy right now or maybe even because I'm so happy to finally feel alive again.
> 
> I realize the thoughts and behaviors are somewhat indicative of being manic or alcoholic, but I've never been diagnosed as manic


The first is definitely a possibility. The second (hypomania) is also possible, even if you have not been previously diagnosed as bipolar. Have you spoken to your physician/therapist about the impulsive behaviors?


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## Halo

HB

When I read your post it felt like it really hit close to home and it took me a while to post a reply to really figure out what I wanted to say.  I read the part about escaping the work in therapy, wanting to over-eat, get drunk etc, get a tattoo etc. and I know that feeling all too well.  That is exactly what I look to do most days.  I don't want to face the feelings and thoughts that I have and I tend to use whatever I can get my hands on to escape with.  For me it is usually pills, food, alcohol.  I am not sure if it is for the same reasons or not as mine is mostly to numb the pain from what goes round and round in my head (sometimes about things that I have talked or worked on in therapy) but also about things that I need to talk about in therapy, memories etc.  I guess what I am trying to say is that I can relate to that feeling of erratic and destructive behaviours.  I obviously don't have any magically solutions or answers to these feelings and behaviours but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and that I have very destructive behaviours also.

Take care
:hug:


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## healthbound

Thanks for the support and responses 

I have talked to my therapist about my cravings to drink and I've also told her that while I'm feeling better (forward thinking etc), I've noticed that I'm engaging in more self destructive behaviors lately (especially the drinking).  She asked me why I thought I was experiencing the increase.  At the time, I thought the work around my dad was most logical.  I also wondered if getting off 3 sedating medications (I'm only on effexor now) might have something to do with it too.

On a slightly different note --- I just got more blood tests back today that indicate I have hyperthyroidism.  I'll see my doc. tomorrow, but maybe that has something to do with it to.

I don't know....all I know is that I've really noticed a major difference in my behaviors and impulses lately.  I imagine it's probably a combination of the work I'm doing, some hypomania characteristics, getting of the sedating drugs and maybe the hyperthyroidism.

It is certainly good to be feeling more optimistically.  But it's also certainly bizarre to have such strong impulses when I've been used to being so non-responsive and "dead".  Even the sex drive issue is weird...as I haven't had one for so long.

Dr. B....do you have any suggestions for ways to better determine whether this is more of a hypomania or coping reaction?

Also, my therapist says I have borderline organization(?).  If I'm having manic symptoms but am aware of them and am sometimes able to curb my impulses to spend money, engage in risky sex, drink etc.  Is that what is considered "borderline"?

Anyway, I feel a little like Jeckle, Hyde and me.  Like, 2 years ago I was on a fast track to career success, then I crashed for 2 years and now I'm feeling as self destructive as I was in my teens when I lived on the streets and did drugs and drank daily.


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## David Baxter PhD

healthbound said:
			
		

> On a slightly different note --- I just got more blood tests back today that indicate I have hyperthyroidism. I'll see my doc. tomorrow, but maybe that has something to do with it to.
> 
> I don't know....all I know is that I've really noticed a major difference in my behaviors and impulses lately. I imagine it's probably a combination of the work I'm doing, some hypomania characteristics, getting of the sedating drugs and maybe the hyperthyroidism.
> 
> It is certainly good to be feeling more optimistically. But it's also certainly bizarre to have such strong impulses when I've been used to being so non-responsive and "dead". Even the sex drive issue is weird...as I haven't had one for so long.
> 
> Dr. B....do you have any suggestions for ways to better determine whether this is more of a hypomania or coping reaction?


HB, if your tests are indicating *hyper*thyroidism, that could absolutely account for many or most of the symptoms you have described.

Hyperthyroidism can create symptoms almost indistinguishable from hypomania or, worst case scenario, mania. The good news is that it's usually not a difficult condition to treat, once it's diagnosed.


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## ThatLady

Ish. These symptoms could definitely be attributed to the hyperthyroid condition. Please keep us informed on what your doctor says. This may be the key to a lot of your problems, and the good news is -- it's treatable!


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## healthbound

Huh.  Well that would make sense then.  I'll definitely keep you guys posted!  Thanks for the feedback!!!


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## David Baxter PhD

Thread split to Tough Time Too.


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