# Cursed gift



## dont be crazy (Oct 31, 2008)

does any one here hold any kind of special artistic talents they beleave are directly related to there mental illness. that without the way there mind works there special ability would not exist.


----------



## white page (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi don't be crazy ,

This is indeed a very pertinent post , my personal experience tells me that there is 
an element of truth in what you say , what was a minor talent as a small child , became a refuge and about the only way to communicate with myself and others as I grew older and developed CD. without this I now know that I would not have survived , and if I had not suffered CD I would not have developed my capacities nor would the subjects treated be the same .

There  is a theory that the majority of highly creative persons , are super sensitives and subject to fragility, they  need to be creative almost like a diabetic needs insulin to survive , as a way to keep a certain stability .
without a way to materialise their thoughts through the arts they are in danger of losing it . 

 So is their super sensitivity pathological or not ? I do not know .
Maybe more erudite members can answer that one .

best wishes white page


----------



## dont be crazy (Oct 31, 2008)

thanks for the reply white page.  i enjoyed reading your responce.  espiecaly the part about a need to create being as strong and as important  as that of a diabetic needing insulin.  may i ask what it is that you find the refuge in that you mentioned thanks chris...


----------



## white page (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi Chris , 
Everything to do with making images , painting, drawing ,computer imagery  some are very dark , some are very hopeful , recently I did a big series of a very playful and micheavious small child , and once they were done I realised with almost a shock that, that little person is a child I could have been and would have liked to be allowed to be  .  as I said, a communication with my self . a way of reaching thoughts and feelings that I cannot express verbally until I have drawn or painted them .  How do you express yourself ?  I really am interested,if you feel you want to say .

take care  white page


----------



## dont be crazy (Oct 31, 2008)

hi again white page your image creating sounds very interesting. i do sculpture i like wood and stone carving best. some of my  works are dark as well. but not all. 

it seems i go into almost a sort of trance or something while i carve. i can actually feel something in my brain change or shift. i can sometimes be dizzy and a little disorinated after carving for a while. i have also noticed my pupils dialate.

 i firmly belive there is some connection between my illness or cursed gift and my sculpture. when it is harnessed to create it is wonderful but it comes with a price. as sometimes it is harnessed as a torment. i dont think i could have one without the other.


----------



## white page (Oct 31, 2008)

> t seems i go into almost a sort of trance or something while i carve. i can actually feel something in my brain change or shift. i can sometimes be dizzy and a little disorinated after carving for a while. i have also noticed my pupils dialate.



This I relate to so well , There are brain wave shifts when we achieve a certain deep concentration and use that intuitive part of the brain , I use music to enhance this and go as deep into concentration as possible , time becomes elastic , some one said or wrote about reaching a certain state of otherness and this describes so well that state of being , without my CD I would have had a more serene life and much easier , but I would not have experienced those moments of otherness either , 
there is a wonderful painting  which is called " le soleil noir " black sun , a French psychologist called Julia Kristeva wrote about the black sun of creative people , that cursed gift which you so well describe . A neccessary state of melancholy , which produces work which 
enters our spirits to a place where no words are needed .


----------



## dont be crazy (Oct 31, 2008)

white page said:


> There are brain wave shifts when we achieve a certain deep concentration and use that intuitive part of the brain  .



i got gosebumps when i read this. i was going to mention in my last post that i think it has to  do with intuitiveness.  my favorite way to go about it.  just enter and go with the flow.
 i googled  le soleil noir " black sun  i read some very interesting stuff about the painter Goya seems he was battling his own demons.
 and yes music is so good i sometimes wish my special ability was music.

 would it be ok to post  pictures of our art work here?


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

> would it be ok to post pictures of our art work here?



Hi Chris , 
I am not sure about the procedures on the forums, a moderator can answer that one, but I know you can upload pictures into your album space in your profile page , which you can have private or not . if it is private only your contacts and the moderating team can see them I think , otherwise everybody who is a member can see them . Looking forward to seeing your work , may I suggest you pm a moderator for more precise information .
I love Goyas work , he really was different from his contempories .

all the best white page


----------



## Mari (Nov 1, 2008)

H! dont be crazy, you might want to check out this link and related sections.

Are Creativity and Mental Illness Linked? - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help  & Mental Health Support Forum

I do think the album space in your profile page is probably the best place to post pictures of your artwork. :dimples: Mari


----------



## Sparrow (Nov 1, 2008)

Hello DBC,

I don't feel there is anything wrong with posting pictures of your artwork, in fact I think it would be welcomed. If there are boundaries, go to FAQ's/User Profile Features/Albums and Pictures for content, file sizes etc. Beyond that, maybe ask a moderator like WP mentioned.
Bear in mind any personal info though, and what NOT to post.

You mentioned Goya. His work always brings me back to Hieronymus Bosch (The Last Judgement etc.) who's dark work I've alway been attracted to.
I don't care to know why, I just like it


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi Chris , 
The link that Mari gave you , is full of answers to your initial question , I found it 
very instructive and reassuring ,  there is a sculptress who I think would interest you , if you google Camille Claudel , she was initially a student of Rodin but easily surpassed him with her talent and mastery , her author brother Paul Claudel had her interned because her increasingly odd behaviour disturbed the middle class world he moved in and his writing career . Her work is just breathtaking , I saw an exhibition of it in Paris . just WOW !!

just to add

Camille Claudel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,  this gives a good summary of her life !  ooppps I thought it was link , still haven't got the hang of it !!! sorry


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

thanks for the additional responces and thoughts.  i read through the linked thread.  i knew that a lot of artist were considered a little off or crazy.  but i neverer knew it had acutully been studied. that is very interesting.

i dont know much about art history. maybe a little about sculpture  just what i have learnt myself. Rodin is one of my favorits and i have also seen pictures of Camille Claudel  sculptures. and i agree maybe even better than  Rodin.

 there is also so much i have not seen or even know about. i belong to a sculpture forum were we have all kinds of disscuisons about all kinds of different things. i was recently in introduced to the Todaiji Ni-o  a temple in japan where there are two giant Nio guardians 26 feet tall 600 year old carved wood sculptures that are awesome.  i had never heard of or seen them before. no telling what else is out there. not that these carvings have anything to do with mental illness. just that there is so much to be learnt

i would be interested to learn of  other artist who were considered or knowen to have suffered and soared with mental illness. of coarse two that i know of are van Gogh and John  Nash. nash being a mathematician maybe not the tradictional idea of what would be considered an artist but maybe his illness turned his work to an art. his speaicel abilty

i was going to post a picture of one of my sculptures but it says i need to have ten posts first.  maybe i will try again latter i would enjoying seeing anybody elses art work that would like to share.


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi Chris , 
Francis Bacon springs to mind , as a nevrotic personality , also Warhol, and Modigliani .
 It is great to hear about your thirst for discovery , as you say there is so very much out there , what is wondrous is,
 that one discovery leads on to many others , I love the AmerIndian lost cultures. In fact I think I have a prefence for creative work which is outside the convential idea of art , the objects and paintings which are or were part of traditional cultural beliefs and rituals , the Inca and Mayan sculptures are amazing , like the crystal skull , also the prehistoric fertilty venus's , the Wallendorf venus is a great example.
Just follow your heart and the work which is meaningful for you . 
 take care WP


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

i was just googleing Hieronymus Bosch yes i have seen these. i to am intriged by these paintings. it says not much was known of his personallity.

hi white page  googling away learning lots of interesting stuff about Francis Bacon.  it says he was often given morphine. i have read about heroin   being known for its antipsycotic  effects i wonder if there is any relation here.

having a bit of trouble with the posting sorry


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

hi Chris ,
this is very possible , it is only fairly recently that there have been huge advances made in diagnosis and appropriate medication for many mental illnesses and disorders , there used to be a generic term for many disorders which was nervous breakdown , thank goodness there is a much better understanding now , people like Camille Claudel won't be locked up for thirty years .


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

she was locked up for 30 years ok i have to google a bit harder how did i miss that??!!

ok i just explored deeper. wow what a tragic life of such a gifted person. thats what i mean a ture cursed gift.


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

> Camille Claudel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,
> 
> Camille Claudel died on October 19, 1943, after having lived 30 years in the asylum at Montfavet (known then as the Asile de Montdevergues, now the modern psychiatric hospital Centre Hospitalier de Montfavet), and without a visit from her mother or sister. (Her mother died on June 20, 1929.) Some biographies list her death as 1920. Her body was interred in the cemetery of Monfavet.



this is from wikipedia , google away chris !!! I love all the information that can be found


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

it is a sad story i cant think of any thing eles to say


----------



## white page (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi Chris ,
I hope this hasn't saddened you too much , I am so sorry if it has , the positive thing is that her wonderful sculptures are with us and appreciated world wide .

take care white page


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

white page said:


> Hi Chris ,
> I hope this hasn't saddened you too much , I am so sorry if it has , the positive thing is that her wonderful sculptures are with us and appreciated world wide .
> 
> take care white page



not at all i love to now stories of our past. sometimes the sad ones are the best ones

ok i am gonna go out on a bit of a limb.  here is a couple alabaster carvings if get a little parinoid and delete them. i will apoligise in advance.


----------



## Meggylou (Nov 1, 2008)

I am no longer "artistic" in the way I use to be pre medication. It seems that now that my "emotions" are more controlled my artistic ability is restrained. It's frustrating and sad. I've spent a lot of time mourning this.


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 1, 2008)

sorry to here that Meggylou this is something i am struggling with. i am afriad meds could steal away my special ability. i ask my doctor he said he didnt know he said it could stiffile it or help me think more clearly. i cant imagian not being able to create like taking away the diabetics insulin. it so important to me


----------



## Meggylou (Nov 1, 2008)

I used to draw and paint a LOT, I would do it all the time, it was so beautiful to do.
Now all I do is scrapbooking...and that to me is more crafty not artistic...not to say it's not pretty. I do find it a fun past time but not at the cathartic level that my drawing used to be.
I think that you should just keep at it regardless, it may change and not be the same or you may find that you aren't negatively affected by medication. Everyone is so unique when it comes to treatment.


----------



## white page (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey Chris , 
Your sculptures are very good ,  How tall are they ?
Thank you so much for sharing them , What Meggylou says is right , our work evolves as our perceptions evolve , which is exciting , the essential you will not change , you may find that your work will be even more powerful ,  certainly if I had not taken meds I would never had the energy to do any work at all , my essential perceptions did not change , however my life was not dominated by depression ; with therapy and meds I could channel my thoughts and energy into producing  work .
You have nothing to lose if you give the meds a chance ........ 
Ask your Dr. exactly how they function ; some meds take a little while to kick in .
take care  white page


----------



## Sparrow (Nov 2, 2008)

Hello DBC,

I loved those pictures you posted! You should be very proud of them. Have you ever tried doing a dragon or gargoyle? That would be a challenge and a half.


----------



## dont be crazy (Nov 2, 2008)

thanks guys these two are just small no more than a foot. i am trying to get into doing larger things. and yes dragons and gargoyles are classic.

 i am trying to learn all i can about meds. but the codundrum is the more i learn the more parinoid i get about them. i once heard or read or something that there is no parinoia only total awareness.

i see today is your birthday Sparrow congrats another under your belt.


----------

