# Personality change



## Dodger (Apr 21, 2007)

I do not know if this the correct spot to ask for comments...today being the first time I have seen this website. I am not even sure questions such as I have are even discussed openly here. Obviously doctors (and others) do not prescribe therapy etc in this venue....but I am obliged to at least pose my question.
I am perplexed by an almost complete change in personalty of my 36 year old daughter. She has gone from a mother of two girls who spent too much on them etc etc to someone who is on the verge of breaking up her marriage (to a good man)..to hanging out with what we consider to be undesirable moral types (including some jerk of a man)   ....to squandering large sums of money and not responsing to attempts to talk to her abaout what is going on. Her mother has tried and tried and  even goes so far as to say "i don't know her anymore."
Needless to say we are all at wit's end........we wonder about mental illness of some sort....we cannot think of any other rational reasons for such a change in a person. We also wonder if gambling and/or drug usage coculd be involved.
We are starting to consider a "family intervention" and even a so-called "health warrant". We feel she needs some kind of help for sure.
Does anyone have any comments?? We are getting desperate. We just do not understand.
Thank you all for reading this  and ANY response would be most welcome.
Dodger


----------



## AVC (Apr 21, 2007)

She could be involved in a second childhood situation, maybe drug abuse in this circle of new friends is causing this.


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 21, 2007)

Substance abuse may be a possibility, yes.

Another very real possibility could be a hypomanic episode in bipolar disorder. And there are a few others that come to mind.

However, the sad reality is there is probably little or nothing that you can do about it until or unless she gets to the point where she acknowledges that there is a problem or something that she wishes to change.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 21, 2007)

The change in personality has not been a fleeting sort of thing but has been ongoing at least for the past few months. Does that sort of scenario sound In very general terms, of course) similar to the  mentioned hypomanic episode or would that be more of a "now and again" sort of situation?
She won't talk about how things have become......."people should mind their own business" is how she has phrased her feelings. But her two kids ARE our business.....we worry about them.
Thank you...Dodger


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 21, 2007)

It could be, Dodger. The parameters vary quite a bit from one individual to another. Sometimes, a hypomanic episode is quite short-lived; in other cases, it can last several weeks or months.

As for the children, I assume their father is their to look after their interests? If not, you could involve the CAS and perhaps even request interim custody.


----------



## HA (Apr 21, 2007)

Hello Dodger,

With the possibility that your loved one may have or is developing an illness, it is recommended to keep a record with dates and specific behaviours. You can forget things over time and it gives you some indication of patterns or time frames.

Include all observations by family, friends and coworkers: 

Eating patterns
Sleeping patterns
Odd behaviours
Odd things she says
Anything else you think is important

Depending on where you live there are different support groups for family members of people with mood disorders that you can attend. You don't need a diagnosis in a family member to attend. There you will get all of the support you need about how to best handle the situation with your daughter.

In the US there is NAMI and in Canada there is the Mood Disorders Society of Canada. Each of these will have a group close to where you live. 

I have an exhusband who has bipolar and a son who has schizophrenia and am very involved with support groups. Things will get worked out somehow with your daughter.

:hug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 21, 2007)

Thank you for your encouraging words...we have been at our wit's end for some time now. Every emotion in the book..from anger, hurt, disappointment, etc etc
Thank you again
Dodger


----------



## HA (Apr 21, 2007)

It is a very painful and confusing thing to go through, Dodger. We all go through the same range of emotions. Whatever you are feeling is perfectly normal.

What can help to deal with really bizarre behaviour is to see it as an illness that is behaving strangely rather than the person who is behaving strangely. Then you can be really angry at the illness and feel more compassion for the person. This has helped me get through many difficult times.

It is not uncommon for people to notice that something is just not right with their loved one... then, a very long time can pass before the person gets a diagnosis or the help they need.

Keep looking for answers and you will eventually find them. 

:grouphug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 22, 2007)

Thank you HeartArt.....I must say that your words of experience have had a soothing affact on my emotions. My wife has preceeded me somewhat in sorting things out and has had less of a "sour feeling" of late about our daughter and more concern about the supposed disease, if that is what it is. Our daughter has never been onme to "talk" much and she won't now. Her cousin (my wife's sister's daughter) said Friday it is the first time in their mutual lives (she and my fdaughter) have not been able to talk and confide in each other. She wants to help also...(she is a real sweetheart) but how CAN we help??
I know you understand....it helps to "speak" with someone like yourself..we have felt so alone. For some reason your words have seemed to reach me..........and as well I am very appreciative of the doctor's comments. A website such as this one is a blessing.
Thank you very much....to all
 Dodger


----------



## Into The Light (Apr 22, 2007)

i just wanted to wish you good luck with the situation and i hope that you can find support and help locally to deal with this.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 22, 2007)

Thank you for your kind thoughts.
Dodger


----------



## HA (Apr 22, 2007)

Well, you are most definitely not alone, Doger. One of the reasons for feeling so alone when dealing with a possible mental illness is that we don't know anything about mental illnesses until it hits close to home. You can't know what no one has told you. 

The past number of years have been better with our society being less afraid and more open to publicly talk about it. You see more general tv shows dealing with the topic and more people including celebrities being open about mental illness. The psychlinks website makes a difference through public education.

Mental illness is just as common as physical illness. It is a part of being human. It was not many years ago that people would not talk about cancer. That's hard to imagine now, isn't it? 

When someone in our family has symptoms of mental illness, we go through various stages of emotional responses. One thing to keep in mind is that each one of us will be at various stages and whatever satge we are at is where we are suppose to be. Knowing this helps family members to accept each other for being where they are and helps us to not feel so frustrated when others are at a different place then us. It is a normal part of the process and we each have our own pace of working through it. No stage is right or wrong, it just is.

The most healing place for most family members is when they meet a group of others who are all going through a similar thing. This is why I suggested the support group. It is very beneficial. It is there that you will also find out "how" to help your daughter. It depends on the resources in your local community. The family education course described below will also have some of the "how to help" strategies. Her husband can inform the family doctor about what is happening and ask him/her for help.

NAMI has an education course called Family-to-Family and this is something that all of your family members can attend and will be one of the best things you can do for yourself and your loved one. Again, you do not need a diagnosis in your loved one to attend the course and it is free. You will really like this course. 

You will get through this.

:grouphug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 22, 2007)

Thank you...today was a BAD day. We are at our wit's end
Dodger


----------



## HA (Apr 22, 2007)

Dodger,

Sorry to hear this was a rough day. You can only do so much and as you go along it is very important to take care of yourselves and take breaks. It runs against our natural desire to "do something" until the problem is solved but it can take some time as you know, so you really need to take time out and regroup. Do whatever it is that helps you relax. 

Taking care of yourselves is an important part of coping with this. If you don't take care of you then you won't be in any shape to help anyone. Taking care of yourself keeps you from burning out. If you are feeling really overwhelmed then that is the time to take a break and do something that takes your mind off of the situation.

It's not easy.

:grouphug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 23, 2007)

I understand but some things happened Sunday that had to be dealt with. In a nutshell..my son in law decided to confton the S.O.B. that is part of tyhe destruction of his family...I tried to talk himout of it but he said he was going to tell him face to face about what damage he was doing. LONG story  but the jerk called the police..I happened to be "lurking" in the neighborhood  i because I was really concerned.Anyway the policemen were very understanding....when I came upon the scene...and didn't arrest him.(I tried to warn  him about his job etc etc..he is a regional manager for a national company.
BUT i'm afraid he is at the breaking point.
We are so darn worried..................we are planning a family meeting ..we MUST do something!!
We are afraid...for a lot of reasons.
Thank you all......I am glad my search found this site.
Dodger


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 23, 2007)

Dodger, try to help your son-in-law see this much: There are two young girls incolved, his daughters, your grandchildren. The way things are going, he may not be able to salvage his marriage and he may not even want to. But he does have to think of the girls. He probably has a very good chance of getting full custody of them at present, but if he winds up with any record of violence he will throw that out the window. If that happens, the girls will be left without a father or a mother.

If you can try to get his focus shifted to the fact that his daughters need him to be stable and strong right now, that may help all of you.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 23, 2007)

Thank you Doctor.... we have tried to highlight that aspect and I know that he understands but I believe he has been hurt so much that he is at the breaking point. He is out of town on business for the next three days but we are concerned about when he returns. My wife is going to try AGAIN to talk to our daughter. Its like she just won't take any "ownership" of this mess, which she has set in motion by her actions.My wife asked her last night :how did things get to this point:...to which she answered "I don't know".
Well how can she NOT know............what got him really upset yesterday was this: my wife picked up the children to take them to church with her, upon which, he tells me, SHE left home and went to the home of this jerk she has taken up with. Her vehicle was in plain view which really upset my son in law ( its almost like she goes out of her way to "rub his nose in it". Anyway..he went to the pub for breakfast and liquid refreshment (whcih she should not have done) but i cannot say i don't understand. I don't drink but i DO anger when pushed and pushed and pushed.
When I found out he was planning to go see this clown at about 6 p.m.  I tracked him (son in law) and tried my best to talk him out of it. He was walkking to the jerk's house...I tried to get him to get into my vehicle but he wouldn't do it. So all I could do was sort of "lurk"....being afraid of what he might do, altough he assured me he just wanted to "talk" to the jerk. But I was afraid that something would "set him off". He got the clown to come eout of his house.......my son in law asked him what his intentions are etc etc..the guy said he was going to call the police and did. I am so afraid of violence.... and i can understand that a man can only be pushed so far. THis has gone on for some time. My wife (her mother) is going to try and talk to her again.......................................
If anyone on this site believes in the power of prayer (as well as medication) we could use some of both I think.
I apologize for going on at such great length but i/we are at wit's end.
We will continue to  try  (he knows he can't use his job (and means of support for those two children) but I can also understand how he must feel. 
Dodger


----------



## Halo (Apr 23, 2007)

Dodger, 

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife at this most difficult time

:hug:


----------



## HA (Apr 23, 2007)

My thoughts and prayers are with you too, Dodger.

Using an anti-anxiety or anti-depression medication for yourselves is one tool to consider for self care. I have used both when needed.

No need to apologize for telling us what you are going through. Let us know how things are going.


----------



## ThatLady (Apr 23, 2007)

Dodger, have you and your wife sought counselling to help YOU deal with this situation. As David pointed out, your daughter is an adult. While I, as the mother of adult children, do understand your concern and distress, I also know there's little we, as parents, can do when we see our adult children making what we consider to be bad decisions. We can offer guidance, but if our guidance is not accepted, our hands are sadly tied.

The next best thing, in my opinion, is to get counselling for yourselves. This will help you to cope with the feelings you're having and to find ways to carry on with your own lives. It doesn't mean you don't care about your daughter; however, if you don't take care of you then, if and when your daughter realizes her mistakes, you won't be in a position to be of help to her. You need to ensure that you're ready for that time to come. :hug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 24, 2007)

Thank you for your most recent thoughts and opinions. Yesterday we (my wife and me) talked at some length to a friend of ours...a woman who is not a trained counselor but who worked more than three decades in the psychiatric unit of the hospital and is well versed in "things of the mind." Sher was helpful and brought an outsider's perspective without any preconceived opinions or thoughts. My wife talked briefly to our daughter and has sensed an ever so slight softening of "willingness to talk". My wife even got her to agree that perhaps she SHOULD have counseling of some sort. This morning, when my wife went to get the grandchildren off to school (daughter had to work early and husband on a business trip) she came home and said our daughter "smiled at her" for the first time in ages. She plans to talk to her again in NON THREATENING OR ACCUSATORY fashion tonight and she has suggested that might try to get them together on Saturday to talk with us about the future. As she (my wife) puts it.... the past is the past..the future has to be addressed.......the kids have to be top priority. Our son in law will be home from his business trip late Wednesday....we hope and pray there will not be any "flare ups" when he gets home. We understand his hurts.....but we worry about possible confrontations. Like so many people, when times get tough, he has used the bottle a bit more than he should. Not to put him down, he has been a good man but alcohol  can affect good men also.

Nevertheless we feel somewhat more encouraged....if we can just get them talking in a civilized manner. Our friend (the nurse)  based JUST on what we were able to tell her, feels that our daughter definitely is "sick" and NOT making rational decisions. We hold out hope that her mother has managed to insert the thin edge of the wedge as it were and has been able to talk to her a wee bit....something that was not happening earlier.

Again...we thank you for your valuable thoughts  and for those people of faith......please exercise your prayer power.

Thank you again.............
Dodger


----------



## Halo (Apr 24, 2007)

Again I will keep you and your daughter in my thoughts and prayers in the hopes that some light is beginning to shine through


----------



## Dodger (Apr 24, 2007)

THank you Nancy....it is helpful to know we have "friends" out there.
Dodger


----------



## ThatLady (Apr 24, 2007)

You and your family will be in my thoughts, Dodger. I hope things work out for all of you. :hug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 24, 2007)

Thank you ThatLady..we are hopeful. Distressed, but hopeful.
Dodger


----------



## HA (Apr 24, 2007)

Hello Dodger,

Those psych nurses make really good friends.   I'm so glad she is able to help you folks out.  

Using [GOOGLE]"I messages"[/GOOGLE] is a really good communication tool. It takes some practice but will be especially helpful in communicating with your daughter (and each other) when there are really charged emotions. 

I messages allow us to communicate our thoughts and feelings without the other person feeling like we are attacking them and getting defensive. It's something worth looking into when you have more energy.

You have found some good friends here.

:grouphug:


----------



## Dodger (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you again for valuable advice. The "I message" sounds like a good idea.
Dodger


----------



## Dodger (Apr 26, 2007)

Note to those who have been so kind and helpful.....my wife has a tentative agreement with daughter and son in law to meet with us and talk over the future. Our daughter has been somewhat more amenable to my wife's opinions and "interventions" the past few days. We hope and pray that she MAY be starting to see a wee bit of light at the other end of that long, dark tunnel. One day at a time I guess.....
thank you all again
Dodger


----------



## Halo (Apr 26, 2007)

Dodger,

I am happy to hear that your daughter and son in law have agreed to meet with you and talk.  That is definitely encouraging news.  I will still keep you in my thoughts and my fingers crossed that things go well.

Take care


----------



## Into The Light (Apr 26, 2007)

that's good news dodger! take it one day at a time, and one step at a time. my thoughts are with you also.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 26, 2007)

Thank you Nancy and LadyBug...I cannot be more explicit as to how I appreciate your concern and advice.
We try to not get over confident but of late we have been feeling somewhat more hopeful. Of course two great little girls (eight and six years of age) are so very important!!!
Thank you very much......
Dodger


----------



## HA (Apr 28, 2007)

I hope it goes well, Dodger. 
My thoughts are with you.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 29, 2007)

Thank you to ALL once again. "Family meeting" is in a very few hours...very concerned we may say something wrong...please be thinking of us.. I hope we can say and do the right things! We do not in any way plan to be judgmental.....can't unring a bell but the future has to be addressed and right now BOTH of them are out of control. My wife  thinks that our daughter right now is more amenable to hearing that they need counselling than he is because he seems to be "justifying" his drinking etc because of what "she did". Hasn't said it in those words but that seems to be the inference..
What a mess!!!!! and two of the greatest kids (biased, I know) are in the middle of it...8 and 6 years old.
Dodger


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 29, 2007)

> What a mess!!!!! and two of the greatest kids (biased, I know) are in the middle of it...8 and 6 years old.



I wish more people would keep this in mind... the adults are distressed and under stress, of course, but the children are likely worried sick and depending on the adults to protect and console them.


----------



## Into The Light (Apr 29, 2007)

the kids are very lucky to have such caring and concerned grandparents and that you are trying to keep their best interests at heart. being there for them is what they really need right now.

i don't know if you've had your meeting yet but best of luck and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## ThatLady (Apr 29, 2007)

I'll be keeping you and your family in my thoughts, Dodger. I hope the meeting goes well and that you're able to get them both to understand that they need therapy, if for no other reason than that the children are being hurt by what's going on.


----------



## Halo (Apr 29, 2007)

Doodger, I am sure by now you have had your meeting and 
I just wanted to say that I hope all went well.  I am still thinking of you and your family and especially your grandchildren.

Take care


----------



## Dodger (Apr 29, 2007)

ThatLady said:


> I'll be keeping you and your family in my thoughts, Dodger. I hope the meeting goes well and that you're able to get them both to understand that they need therapy, if for no other reason than that the children are being hurt by what's going on.



Son in law backed out of meeting  (he asked my daughter by text message if it could be at noon instead of 9:30). She said she was coming alone  even if he wasn't coming. She showed a degree of courage I think by coming alone... she really didn't know if we would be critical, etc., but that was not what it was about. Was a good talk tho.....,aired out some things.......,but certain  elements need his input. Seems like he feels threatened, I think, over his drinking, etc. Becoming a real mess.

Thank you all for your thoughts
Dodger


----------



## Dodger (Apr 29, 2007)

It is SO difficult to deal with family issues that touch so closely. Our daughter and son inm law have been married almost 14 years and to the naked eye he has always...ALWAYS... seemed to be the exemplary young man that any parent would want for their daughter. As a matter of fact we have said we could not have found a better husband for her if we had done the choosing ourselves. Now, after talking with her today (she keeps her cards very close to her chest and never has said anything uncomplementary about him)  yet, today the question of his drinking came up and we got the very distinct impression that has been a problem for years. She basically said that he can be drinking and doing fine but almost intstantly he can change into someone else almost. My wife talked to our neice (daughter's cousin)  who told her the same thing. They could all be together somewhere and son in law would be happy, laughing etc and all of a sudden he would change. His face would become almost threatening and if our daughter asked what was wrong he would scowl as if to say "you know what's wrong" although NOTHING had happened. That sounds to my untrained mind to involve something much deeper than the alcohol.
Perhaps sczhiophrenic (sic) behaviour maybe???????
Of course I have no knowledge of that sort of thing but it strikes me as being something rather deep inside him.
So...what started out as a "daughter thing" has expanded. The "mess" is  worse than we thought it was. 
Thank you for everyone who has responded...................
Dodger


----------



## David Baxter PhD (Apr 29, 2007)

No. Not schizophrenia, or not very likely. 

More likely just someone who doesn't react well to alcohol and who shouldn't be drinking. Like that guy in every small town who when he drinks wants to try and pick a fight with someone.


----------



## Dodger (Apr 30, 2007)

David Baxter said:


> No. Not schizophrenia, or not very likely.
> 
> More likely just someone who doesn't react well to alcohol and who shouldn't be drinking. Like that guy in every small town who when he drinks wants to try and pick a fight with someone.



Thank you very much Dr. Baxter.......what a blessing it is to have someone of your expertise in such a forum.
Thank you
Dodger


----------



## Dodger (May 6, 2007)

It has been a week since we talaked with our daughter and it seems as if she is making some strides as to regaining her sense of self worth...and getting her feet back on the ground so to speak. Our son in law, on the other hand, apparently doesn't think HE has a problem (other than her) and is spending a lot of time drinking and NOT being home for his children. We do not wish him any ill will any more than we do regarding our daughter. He has been our son in law for nearly 14 years and we have never been displeased with him. Now, mind you, some of his rougher edges have been coming out, but who among us is without sin, as it were. We wish them both well and particularly the children. We wish there was some way to "put things back together".
Thank you again for all your warm thoughts and advice.
Dodger
PS: Does anyone know how to get my original password back? For some reason I forgot it and now I have a reset password which is a bunch of numbers. Is there a way to recalim my original password?
(Wish I could remember what it is)


----------



## David Baxter PhD (May 6, 2007)

Once you have that temporary "reset password", you can go to your User CP and change it to something you can better remember.


----------



## HA (May 7, 2007)

Dodger,

You may not be able to "put things back together" but keep chipping away at helping them and hopefully things will improve for the children's sake. 

Can you suggest that both of them seek some professional counselling either together or separately? Alcohol as a coping mechanism only makes things worse.


----------



## Dodger (May 8, 2007)

Hello HeartArt: We have tried to suggest counselling...she  seems (maybe) willing..he doesn't even reply, leading us (and her) to assume he has zero interest. I know alcohol doesn't help...I wish he knew /
Thanks you.......we appreciate your kind thoughts
Dodger


----------

