# The Stigma



## bloodwood (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi,

When I began to realize how messed up I was and that I may have to do something about it two things held me back.

First was just the courage to face the scary stuff.

Second was the sense of admitting I am "flawed" and the stigma that mental illness carries. My Girlfriend and I often talk about how some people are very understanding and accepting. Some people are accepting and supportive but do not fully understand and then others don't understand and don't accept at all.

Some people you can mention it and others get frightened or uncomfortable if they know you have trouble.

My girlfriend tends to tell as few as possible and does OK. I will tell anyone when it comes up and I let them deal with their own learning curve. There is no doubt that it drives a few people away but it also opens a lot of doors as far as honest discussions. 

It seems like the last few decades have seen more acceptance and you see ads on tv but there are still a whole lot of people that won't even go near the topic. It make things hard sometimes.

Peter

PS sorry if this shold have gone under - Attitudes, Myths, Stigma, and Raising Awareness


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 4, 2011)

I have children so I have a wait and see attitude. There are people in my life who are aquaintences to whom I chat with about stuff that really doesn't matter. I tend to be the chatty type I talk to everyone. The person in front of me at the grocery store. I know everyone at my local Starbucks. My kids school. It gets complicated with kids. I used to be involved, on the PTA, in on the "gossip" and what I found out was most people have some kind of "mental illness" it just may not be diagoised. You would be surprised how many people have drama in their lives. What I found out was you really can't judge people on the outside for what is on the inside or a book by it's cover. I find the people who react harshest probably have the most to hide.

I am not ashamed for who I am or where I am or for the help I have recieved. I share on a need to know basis. If it will be benificial to a situation and my children do the same. My oldest daughter knows I am an Alcoholic/ addict her perception of the disease is that I help people with problems so she will bring me her friends who are having problems with their parents and stuff. Her perception is of more the solution than the problem. That is her experience.


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## bloodwood (Feb 4, 2011)

> most people have some kind of "mental illness" it just may not be diagoised


I cannot agree more. I find this so true. I see friends having trouble because they haven't begun to acknowledge that something is in there. I want to raise the issue or talk to them but for some you just can't. Any time I have tried with one fellow I get a solid wall of - "I don't know what you are talking about, you are confused"
I see what you mean about the  kids. I have none and had not thought of that. The last thing you would want is for them to be caught in your stigma if you know what I mean.
I know I have paid a cost by being open about it but I have also gotten a level of understanding and support that I would not have otherwise. The other benefit is that people will come and talk to me about things and I think it helps that they know I can't or won't judge them. My girlfriend works in the medical field and is a quieter personality so she is more discrete.

It sounds like your oldest daughter has learned a wonderful lesson and has learned from your example of helping people. Also that things can be fixed if you try. It is a very cool legacy.    
Peter


> What I found out was you really can't judge people on the outside for what is on the inside or a book by it's cover.


The frustrating truth here is that people with "mental illness" are labeled and people may look no further to see the person beneath.


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## Yuray (Feb 4, 2011)

> but it also opens a lot of doors as far as honest discussions.


six of one, half dozen of the other kinda thing



> The frustrating truth here is that people with "mental illness" are labeled and people may look no further to see the person beneath.


and these are the people perhaps not worth knowing, but sometimes I would think that people are uncomfortable talking about mental illness. Normal people are not always as 'enlightened' as people like us. We know both sides of the coin, they know only one side.....so far.


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## bloodwood (Feb 4, 2011)

Yes so true. Sometimes I find myself wanting to give them a little shake to wake up. Like wanting to teach someone to read but I know that there is very little I can do. Unless that person asks and is open to a new idea. I enjoy my contact with this group because as I have said it make one feel less isolated in that sense. I am blessed in that my girlfriend and I share a common type of background and also and understanding of each other's stigma. So no matter what else happens in a day, you come home to a kind of acceptance and understanding and frame of reference.
I love that there are ads on tv that talk about mental illness. Recently a very young lady commited suicide in our city, kind of high profile, and the one message comming from the parents and community is "parents, talk to your kids. Make mental illness a family discussion". Shining light into the dark corners can heal. That seems to be the single biggest message this forum offers is - Talk to someone about it, and keep talking. What a wonderful healthy thing.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 5, 2011)

Here is a story about stigma. Yesterday I got a call from my little friend to whom I have been trying to help for a long time. She suffers from drug addiction and PTSD. We chatted. She begged for me to go get her and help her. She was afraid she was to die, she was going to be killed. I won't go into all the details but after consulting with the clinical supervisor from the last "treatment center" she was in we decided she was in methamphamine phychosis and paranoia she was set to go, she was calm, I picked her up we got to the place, all was well. On the door it read "psychiatric emergencies in the rear". All day she had asked me to be honest with her and I told her the truth about treating both her disorders and that she needed medication to help her come of the meth and to treat her PTSD so she didn't have to self medicate but she hadn't put the two together and she reacted. "I'm not psycho" and she refused to be admitted. She would not sign the paper to admit herself even though she thought the snow was Rapture was second coming of christ. I was so frustrated. She has been in "treatment center" I'm like what do you think those places are. They are psychiatric hospitals for the elite they can afford to pay so they call them treament centers. WTF


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## bloodwood (Feb 7, 2011)

There is irony. She could accept it to a point and no further. Even though her thoughts were a little mixed up she had the sense to avoid being a "psycho". Even from within the system she has her own stigmas. This is such a good example of how we set these kinds of boundaries. And always with a misunderstood label of some kind.
I hope she gets past this meth paranoia. Is she still just at home?
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 7, 2011)

She doesn't have a home she is with the dope dealer and his girl. That is the sad part about this kid. She has only known orphanages and institutions and I am telling her she needs another one. She is pissed. She doesn't get it. Maybe the next time she calls she will be ready and able to receive help. In the mean time I pray she makes it till then.


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## bloodwood (Feb 7, 2011)

My gosh, she has nothing going for her at the moment. I am glad she has you. What a difficult life she has lived and is living. How does the spirit get past this point? I am sorry to hear it.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 7, 2011)

I know she hasn't deserved what has happened only she does not believe that. She is so young and beautiful, she has a tremendous amount of potential. And she has no perspective. She has come so far. It would be a shame for her to give up now. I love her like a daughter. I tell her I will show up if she does. She has to show up for herself she has to want it. She keeps trying I give her credit for that.

I learn from her every time I work with her. She gets me out of me and she teaches me someting about life. I have no idea what the outcome will be. :crossfingers:


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## bloodwood (Feb 8, 2011)

When a person appears to have great potential it makes it even harder to see them in that state. Though anyone going through that tears the heart out. She has no trust, no faith that there is anything else to life.
Was there a happier time that she can remember?
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 8, 2011)

I have seen her have periods of sobriety and happiness at the beginning when I met her. It was the constant struggle with abusive adoptive parents that wore her down. She lost faith. I don't blame her really many systems failed her. It was a Christian adoption. She was adopted at twelve. The family had grown children and just applied their current parenting skills onto this child and were shocked it didn't work. They refused to change their approach or accept counseling or consider that maybe this child triggered their personal issues (had the adoption agency done their job) with a family history of alcoholism and incest. This family was affluent. This child has been told she is a demon basically. I saw the family system for what it was toxic. I believe she is precious and God has a way of making good come out of evil. She is it. A gem.


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## bloodwood (Feb 8, 2011)

Where exactly is she staying at the moment. Is it that clinic? That poor thing.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 8, 2011)

No, she is staying in a home with "friends" fellow drug addicts last I heard. Things change fast with that life style. Her pattern is to get paranoind, the psychosis is new and end up in a shelter every couple of weeks. After a few days of sleep and food she runs back to the drug dealer to self medicate. Thus the cycle of drug addiction. She calles me when she hits a "brick wall" I attempt to intervene with a treatment option those are my boundaries with her hoping at some point it works.


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## bloodwood (Feb 8, 2011)

I was hoping that was not the case. Does she qualify for any kind of drug rehab safehouse or something like that? I guess she wouldn't tolerate it anyway.
As a result of heavy drinking my brother schizophrenic. I understand the prolonged abuse can cause these kinds of diseases. My sister also has some very minor difficulty too for substance abuse.
I really wish you and her luck. I wish I had something more to offer you. Her life has barely begun.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes, when she is willing to accept help it is there. We have a saying, sobriety isn't for those who need it, it is for those who want it. We have to be willing to go to any length to keep it once we get it. The pain of using has to be greater than the pain of getting clean and sober. It is really hard to get clean. It is like losing a best friend. That has been my experience. I'm sorry about your brother and sister. I hate it when that stuff happens. Addiction is a terrible disease. The reality is it is a deadly disease.


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## bloodwood (Feb 9, 2011)

Did I tell you I like to read your posts?    

You put it so well.
My brother and sister are now clean. My sister more recently. I bought her a little laptop - she had never used a computer - and she is on it every day now. We joke about how she has switched to a healthy addiction. We have talked about addictive personalities and the tendency to find some kind of addiction. 

I had wondered if helping your young friend focus on the happy times could help her consider the benefit of getting help. That more happy times could be there. She knows you were in her spot in the past and found your way out.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 9, 2011)

I do that. That is why this last time was so frustrating. We were in the parking lot of a very good "treatment center" that also happens to take psychiatric emergencies also. 

She has nothing 8 Th grade education and not even an ID card to prove who she is. She couldn't work if she wanted to. No drivers license. No skills. Those are the facts. 

We argued last time about the word bright. I used it to describe her. She believes she is stupid because she struggled in school. I remembered listening to the argument she and her parents would get into and how degrading they would be and how she couldn't get a break. I thought about how far she had come. She came to a new country at twelve learned a new 
language. She hardly has an accent, not to mention her gifts in swimming,  art, and music.


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## bloodwood (Feb 10, 2011)

It breaks the heart.
I have so often thought that people should not be ale to become parents or pet owners without courses, testing, evaluation, etc. 
I hope that one day, under better circumstances, she thinks to thank you for your commitment.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 10, 2011)

She thanks me in the present. She is a sweet kid. I wish I could know the future sometimes. Will she be one of the one's to make it? I wish I could see my future. I wonder about myself too. Will it ever be easy?:hmm:


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## bloodwood (Feb 10, 2011)

My sister said to me that she realized that no matter what she took it wasn't fixing things. This helped her pull out of the life. This brilliant young friend of yours may come to that realization. But you wish you could show her the shortcut around the interval of pain. Everything you say about her says a super special soul worth saving.

I am not sure if it gets easier. I am inclined to think so. As we get older and deal with more things in our lives and around our lives it seems to make us stronger and more able to cope. The skills I have now and my responses improve each year. There is still a lot of yucky stuff but the overall picture seems to improve as we evolve. 

You are a person that works very very hard at it. You are honest with yourself and others. You have an emmense amount of experience in life and the system. You give readily of yourself. All of that investment has to lead to a level of Peace at some point. You see the pain in others and yourself. You can offer help. Feel the pain. But can still have a sense of peace and rightness that you are doing everything possible for the right reasons. Do you take time for your self?


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 11, 2011)

You are so kind, Peter. I am in a recovery program where the concept is to pass it on. Where helping others is the foundation but you got to have it to give it away. There are parts of my life where I have "it" together and parts where I don't. It depends on the day. Then I am married, have three kids, a dog, and two cats. I have found it all to be overwhelming at times.

Do I have time for me would seem like a simple question but it takes work in a family like mine and is a topic in therapy all the time. I have to go hang out in my car some where to get that uninterrupted time and space so I can chill. There is always something going on and it isn't just that it is a lack of respect for personal boundaries. It annoys me. But thanks for asking.


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## bloodwood (Feb 11, 2011)

> It depends on the day. Then I am married, have three kids, a dog, and two cats. I have found it all to be overwhelming at times.


This seems all the more reason to take time for you to recenter and gather your energies. You drive away in your car for a bit. What about a massage. Go to the library. Take yoga. Something that physically pulls you away from the demands and makes you the center for even a short time.
If it is annoying you then it is past the point where it needs to be done. You have to grant yourself that release even if there is protest. It is healthy and you deserve it.
Just my thoughts. Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 11, 2011)

You are persistent, Peter. And of course right on. Yoga and or some form of consistent exercise. I have actually made a decision that I need to do it, want to do it, like it when I am doing it but I don't do it. I'll put it on my list of things to do. Thank you!


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## bloodwood (Feb 11, 2011)

> You are persistent, Peter. And of course right on. Yoga and or some form of consistent exercise. I have actually made a decision that I need to do it, want to do it, like it when I am doing it but I don't do it. I'll put it on my list of things to do. Thank you!


 
I also do not always practice what I preach. My nice alone time is in my work shop and I do it alot when it is warm enough (not much in Jan & Feb). But I also know that excercise, yoga, going to a movie or play all make me feel very good but I am not good at doing it.
I'm sorry if I was overly persistent.
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 12, 2011)

It wasn't meant as criticism please don't take it that way. My quirky sarcastic sense of humor meaning very good, very good point, I don't want to hear it, but I want to hear it. I meant what I said too. Top of the priority list. I thought about it a lot yesterday. I believe people and I am no exception to the rule don't always want to hear what they need to hear. 

I need to exercise in a big way. I also need to do few other things. I appreciate your feedback.:2thumbs:


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## bloodwood (Feb 12, 2011)

My girlfriend regularly tells me that: " Peter, sometimes you go too far!" and I know it to be true. I can get carried away, too enthsiastic.    No offense taken at all.

I pushed the idea a bit only because I got the real solid idea that it is something you truly seem to need at this point.
Now hearing of your contact with your family and the memories of abuse and all that, it just clarifies things a bit. My sister went way off the deep end when her memories started coming back. That was when we lost her for a few years until she regained some footing.
 and I guess all I am saying is that I kind of understand and it appears your own family and mine has a tiny parallel. Two of my other sisters were abused too. All three have dealt in different manners. My heart feels for you. I wish that I could help in some way. The damned part of it is that there is no way to speed up time or know how individual are going to open or respond about the issue.
I just send a cyber hug and a wish for better for you. And a wish that your family can be as supportive as possible for you.  
Time and your strength and honesty will get you through all of this. And we are here for you to.    Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for the hug. I gave up on expectations of support from anyone in my family it wasn't worth it.  It is too hard I am hoping time will heal those wounds. I do my best in therapy and work my program. I pray life will get easier for me.


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## bloodwood (Feb 13, 2011)

I have mentioned in other posts how I, and other, adopted family in other modes. As I spend time here this place has some of that.
I feel obvious caring and support here. Within context, it is nurturing.
Does your husband truly understand what is happening with you?
Peter


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## CarlaMarie (Feb 13, 2011)

I have to be honest. We have one of those "toxic" relationships. We fit perfectly together. He has stuff and I have stuff and I keep thinking if we both work a program it will all work out. He breaks my heart, fools me into thinking he has changed, when he hasn't. It has been an illusion when I review the facts. I has happened over and over again.

I keep staying. I kick myself. I am so aware of the cycle af abuse, control or whatever you want to call it. I am pertrified to leave. If I decide to go I have to be on top of my game. That is the most dangerous time.

I set some boundaries with him about yelling at my kids. His response was to lie and decieve me about some buisness trips. He has abandonded his commitment to therapy and to our marriage. He wouldn't even awknowledge the deception.

I'm not doing couple therapy until/unless as long as he works a program and he can be honest. This was part of our agreement for me to commit to stay and work on the marriage. He blew it. 

I am working on myself and taking the action necessary to become stronger and more independant. I am revisiting plan B. I am not living as a captive in my own home for much longer.

So to answer your question. I don't trust him. There are others in my life I see in person to whom I get support from. That's nice. There is something to be said about writing for me and connecting to people through the written word that is different. I like it. It is kind of old fashion. 

I had a job in a very old library and my job was to fetch books. When I was bored I would hide in the stacks and read the old books. I found it fasinating how people can communicate intimately through the written word. The letters I found were beautiful


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## bloodwood (Feb 14, 2011)

It is one thing that your husband does not participate or actively work towards the goal, but more ditsturbing that he needs to lie.  I am glad that you have it in some kind of perspective. I had asked the question hoping that your home offered some kind of support structure. I am sorry.

I too have always found something real, nostalgic, human about writting. I reamember going into an abandoned house in Nova Scotia. I went into the attic and found some very old newspapers. I also found some letters and notes. One, that I treasure, was a poem, maybe a school assignment, written with ink well and pen. The pages were joined by a sewing pin. 
The digital days are going to lose something.
Peter

---------- Post added at 08:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

And happy Valentines day


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## Knitwit (Mar 22, 2011)

I am lucky to have a job and a boss who generally is understanding of my health problems. I say generally because he listened to me tell him about my bipolar condition and nodded nicely. He does not like to talk about deep things in general and I'm sure that this makes him uncomfortable. I have told some other coworkers about my condition but not all and here's my dilemna. When I need to take a day off for "healing" or "rest", I will often invent a condition for the day like the flu or my car is not working. I am not comfortable with this but I am less comfortable with telling people the real reason for my time off because it would involve a long explanation that I'm not sure would be understood. I guess I feel forced to lie and I don't like it, I don't feel comfortable telling everyone the truth.


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## bloodwood (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi Knitwit
I find that compassionate people who may not fully understand the issue can still find ways to give. Your boss sounds like one of those. 

And a little white lie is OK in my book as long as you acknowledge it to yourself which you have. You can also find a long term way to introduce truth to the discussions when you feel it is appropriate.
My solution tends to be to tell everyone because then I don't have to juggle a lie and I feel like it validates me to say things aloud. But my way is not everyone's way. 
I have also found that when you tell one person or more, the word gets around through the grapevine. It may only say: this person has a condition. but the word is passed around because we are social beings.
I hope you are having a good day today.
Peter


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## rdw (Mar 28, 2011)

I am now very selective aboout who I tell about my depression and past suicidal thoughts. My close friends and some family members have been very supportive while others have told me "to snap out of it" or accused me of "faking it". Both of those responses made me wary of sharing the information. I am sad that in this day and age with the media campaigns and awareness that we should have, people still don't understand how difficult depression is to cope with at times.


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