# What about man camp?



## rebecca8 (Sep 6, 2007)

I was discussing an issue with my boss who is also a mentor for young men at his church. I told him how excellent I thought that was, as well as how desperately essential it is these days. 

I am a young woman, and have the most difficult time finding a guy who wants to get to know me. It's so frustrating that so many claim all they want is to "have fun." (meaning casual sex) Even some guys who at first appear to be really moral....I'm surprised to learn of their true desires. I keep wondering if it is just me, or if there is a serious problem with men in general. 

I was also talking about how so many young women are accepting this behavior and attitudes from these guys, and it encourages the problem (i.e "Girls Gone Wild, etc., etc.) 

I wonder how this all started. Is it because of a breakdown in the family? So many young men (and women) of my generation have grown up without a father. Personally, I will not be so easily defeated by this trend. I think that it is now my responsibilty to get these guys to man up!  I am constantly getting asked out by guys who have wives or girlfriends. They of course are unaware that I know, so I blatantly point out,"Um, no thanks, would your wife appreciate that you're hitting on me?" It feels like I have to bat them on the nose or something. Geez, they are the men. Aren't men supposed to be responsible, strong, and protective? Instead I see lot's of mama's boys, and escape artists, or party animals.  

What's going on? I don't even date because, well, I don't want to date someone with no personal integrity which is what I see with guys my age (25). I am well aware that women have to play their part too, and I think that would be not accepting this behavior as OK. Also, I know it is important to not just bash men, but to raise the standards, and EXPECT them to rise to that level. If women show that they have no faith in their men or men in general, these guys will think they don't have to work so hard. Like, "what's the point, i'll get what i want anyway....." It's not right to let them get off so easy. 

That's one of the reasons why I admire Hillary Clinton. Women shouldn't just give guys what they want, they need to work for it. And on the other side, maybe women can stand to be a little more ladylike sometimes. I think in our disappointment we can demasculinate a good man, a real man, and then he probably feels it's impossible to make us happy, so he leaves. So, anyway, mainly I was wondering if anyone else has noticed that most young men want sex buddies, while some more mature men have become a little submissive. This sounds corny, but where HAVE all the cowboys gone?


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 6, 2007)

I can't say I agree with several statements in your post but let me address just one of them: From my work with young people, I can tell you that a lot of young men have issues with young women who seem to prefer to date casually and "hook up" and show little or no interest in a monogamous relationship.

I guess my point is twofold:

1. It's not a gender thing. The preference for casual dating and even casual sex has more to do with age and/or peers than gender.

2. Pretty much any generalization you can make about the attitudes of men - or the attitudes of women - are ultimately just generalizations, not accurate characterizations of the gender.


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## Mari (Sep 6, 2007)

My sons and nephews often feel the same frustration so I would have to agree that generalizations about men and women do not help. How many dances before you meet the one you love? :heart: Mari


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## rebecca8 (Sep 7, 2007)

Maybe it's just me then, and the area I live in now. It just seems like there is a lack of respect on both sides. Hmmm, I'll figure it out someday.


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## Daniel (Sep 7, 2007)

rebecca8 said:


> ...I don't want to date someone with no personal integrity which is what I see with guys my age (25).



Yes, age is a factor.  A lot of changes can happen between 25 and 30:



> Seventy-four percent of women say they're attracted to older men because they have better people skills. The majority of women think men finally ripen between ages 26 and 29.
> 
> http://www.menshealth.com/cda/artic...item=217974d18d384110VgnVCM20000012281eac____





> Both men and women tended to grow more agreeable after age 30. Both sexes also seemed to become warmer, more nurturing and more open in their 30s. There were some slight differences between the sexes. Neuroticism, or emotional instability, declined with age for women, but not for men. Men's neuroticism levels showed little change.
> 
> http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030826-000016.html


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## Into The Light (Sep 7, 2007)

i think there's a lot of truth to what daniel just posted, based on my own life experience so far.


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## rebecca8 (Sep 9, 2007)

Oh boy, have my 20's been difficult for me. I'm halfway through. I wonder if other people my age can't wait until they're 30. Most people my age that I know now are such party animals. I feel like I can't relate to them. Sometimes it makes me feel like such an outcast. I asked a few older men at work if young men of today really do have less respect for women than they have maybe 20 years ago. They said absolutely. Oprah did a show on it. They talked about the rap videos and lyrics degrading women, and stuff like that. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm making  generalizations. I was just expressing my frustrations, and trying to get some feedback to see if what I notice is what some others' notice too. Or it really is me. Some people tell me I have an "old soul." I suppose part of it could also be having to grow up too fast.


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## Mari (Sep 11, 2007)

H! I saw part of the Oprah show you are referring to and I would agree that it is much more a male than a female problem. I also think it is going to get much worse because we now have the first generation that has been exposed to media violence from the day they were born. This includes television, music, movies, books, and computers which now depict images that were previously only within the domain of extreme perverts - these images and ideas are being observed and listened to by even very young children. I see the damage it has done to my children and I find it very scary. What bothers me is that most people I talk with just shrug and say 'Oh well, what can you do?' Some people do speak up and try to do something but as was noted on the Oprah show there are a large number of people getting rich from media 'sex and violence' and they are not going to give that up for people with good moral conduct. I have been proud of my children for being kind, considerate, and caring but now I think I should have gone for 'tough as nails' because that is what they need to survive.  Mari


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## rebecca8 (Sep 14, 2007)

I think you were right to raise your children kind, considerate, and caring. I've noticed that when I speak up about something I don't like to guys who not expressing good morals, I can see that they become ashamed. Then they try to change their attitude around. These people are not as strong as the children you've raised. They are just "followers," and maybe the best thing to do is to call them on their behavior. Eventaully and hopefully it will change. Thanks Mari for noticing this problem too.


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## Into The Light (Sep 14, 2007)

> I have been proud of my children for being kind, considerate, and caring but now I think I should have gone for 'tough as nails' because that is what they need to survive.


i think they need some of both. you need to be tough in certain situations and in others compassion is what's going to help you.

still be proud of your kids for having those qualities. it's what helps make this world a better place.


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