# Is it s/h?



## Lonewolf (Aug 7, 2014)

I hurt myself today and I took myself up to A+E to get it sorted out!! It required stitches!! They insisted on giving me an injection to numb it first, but I totally refused it! They did sew it up in the end! I couldn't believe how much I enjoyed the intense pain from it!! I now am having a guilt trip because I feel as if I involved another person in my S/H! Did I? Can anyone help? I seem to be having stronger urges to s/h and when I get the pain from it, I feel as if I need more of it to satisfy my needs!! (even if the initial pain is accidental!) I don't completely understand why this is happening? Does anyone understand?? Advice please? mg:


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## Harebells (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

Sorry you hurt yourself hon I don't know, I guess people have all different reasons for s/h, but do you think it's possible it's become an addiction in the sense that you need increased levels of it to get the same effect? It's kind of scary because it sounds dangerous. Sorry I don't mean to scare you, I'm just concerned for you. I know you're not getting help and probably feel the need for desperate measures to cope. I don't know what to say - I hope someone else can give you more practical advice on how to get through this.Look after yourself ok?! Thinking of you xx

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P.S. If you feel like chatting I can stay around, if it would help, no pressure though.


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## Lonewolf (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

Thanks!! It is kinda like an addiction, I suppose! Unfortunately there's no 'rehab' for it!! I appreciate your honesty, I wish I could feel the fear that you have expressed, I just don't!! I would be so upset if someone I knew was doing what I am doing, but it's not someone else, it is only me!!

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I would appreciate it!! only if you are up to it lol?


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## Harebells (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

I know, I do understand, genuinely. I would be a hypocrite to just tell you to stop endangering yourself (although I really would like to tell you to stop endangering yourself!!!) I do understand the thoughts that make it seem ok to do it. I just wish it was possible for you to step outside and see the lovely precious lonewolf who deserves to be cared for and cherished!!! (and it's not a criticism if you can't see it, I think we all have trouble seeing ourselves like that if we've had a lot of training not to!) I know you can't get help right now but that's because of a flawed, overburdened system, it's not because you don't deserve help. You are absolutely deserving of proper help.


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## Lonewolf (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

I know this is going to sound like real stupid self-pity, but I think I've carried on increasingly hurting myself where others have reduced what they inflict upon me!! I guess it is as you say-a habit!!


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## Harebells (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

It doesn't sound like stupid self-pity, I think I understand, is it a way to express anger and pain because you don't have another way?...because your experiences have been denied/invalidated? please tell me if I'm getting it wrong x

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(Or that that is a part of it, not necessarily the whole story..?)


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## Lonewolf (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

Yeah! it is a bit like that, it is also because I know that if I put my anger onto the people it actually belongs with, I will in no doubt get into serious trouble, but if I take it out on myself there isn't any real repercussions from it!! This has always been one reason I s/h! I inflict the pain I feel like they deserve, on myself!! it doesn't matter then! I am sorry, that's a bit brutal!!


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## Harebells (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

It's ok, I do understand, I have been there (I hope I won't go back there but I don't really know!) ...now I see it from the outside, happening to someone else, i see that it's a shame that you are suffering further pain because of somebody else's actions, I'm sorry hon - it sucks.

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Hi Lonewolf,
Think I have to go to sleep, sorry, hope you don't feel like I'm abandoning you. Hope you can stay safe and feel safe tonight. Have a good sleep x


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## Lonewolf (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

Yeah, I know lol, it sucks!! I'm sorry that you've been here too!! I really am!!
thanks for talking to me!! hope you have a good sleep!! catch up soon! sending you a big cyber hug!! x


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## PrincessX (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*



Lonewolf said:


> _ if I take it out on myself there isn't any real repercussions from it!!_



Hi Lonewolf, you know that this is not true, right? You know you had to be taken to the Emeregency, because your self-harm was dangerous. You also know that hurting yourself will have no impact on the people you are angry with and it will not provide a realistic solution to any of your problems. You know you are stronger than this. Nothing can cause you more harm than the things you are doing to yourself. I think this is irrational behaviour.
I am trying to be helpful, but you have to understand, there is only one way to describe what you are doing - it is destructive and irrational. 
*You need help from a psychiatrist immediately. Go to therapy, take medications, do what you have to do. You can not let this happen again! *
Good luck. As i said, you are stronger than your actions!


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## Peter (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

In my past, I had a need for self-harm. At the time, I did not see it as such. I saw it as something I can do and get away with it.
Later, a friend saw what I was doing and asked why. Whatever I said to him baffled him. Seeing this confusion in my friend got me to search deeper for my real reasons for self-harm.
It occurred to me, that the pain I received was under my control, not under the control of another. It sort of empowered me.
Then I discovered that I was always returning to self-harm. My desire to exercise control over pain got out of control. I was going backwards. 
Harm was a way of life for me. First by someone else, then by me. I was actually trying to say it was okay to be harmed, but in fact I knew this was NOT okay. I saw my own insanity.
This is when I realized, to regain control (self-responsibility), I had to resist, at all costs, to no longer harming myself.

Lonewolf, I have read some of your past posts. I know that you know what you need to do to get help. Please follow it up. 
I truly hope you will find a way to *nurture* your one and only body.


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## MHealthJo (Aug 8, 2014)

Hi there Lonewolf....

The only thing I can add is, I wonder if there are any books or resources which you might be able to use while you are still waiting to get the full therapy that you need? I like the site  thebookdepository , I think they have free shipping so that makes it easy to see how much you are spending...? 

Or at no cost, BPD or s/h recovery sites can be very useful too, it can be like talking to someone who has been where you are with s/h , and there can be clues about how to slow down the habit, maybe? Sometimes you can also build a connection with those who have recovered or are on the recovery path, too.

Don't forget also that outside stresses can tend to be triggers. So don't forget to keep using supports and positive places like here, who might be able to help you through stressful times, talk about things with you, suggest new ideas..... stuff like that...  There have been some good threads about boundaries here recently, too. Have a look down the list of recent posts of active members, you will find people chatting about little ways of starting to set boundaries, and how much that can protect us from stress and hurt. You may even like to ask some questions in those threads about how to begin, if you think of areas where you are being hurt or used or abused and it is creating triggers for you. 

There has been some art that members have posted recently, as well.... There are quite a few people who begin recovery or change, by finding some new or different channel for feelings? Art can be very very useful.... And there are lots of different types of art that can be tried, some varieties would be a really minimal cost.... I think you mentioned that you have a group or a support of some sort, or perhaps your GP, might be able to suggest somewhere that could start you off in some sort of 'channel' for your feelings, like that? Or, I believe there are threads here about ideas to get started......

Hang in there... sorry that you struggle with this really difficult situation LW.

And always remember that people who have done the wrong thing and who cause hurt and pain.... they do suffer and have consequences for things they have done. They are not happy people, not in any healthy sense of real happiness or real connection  that good people can experience.  And who knows what might happen to them later on or what they could still experience......


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## David Baxter PhD (Aug 8, 2014)

Also AbeBooks Official Site - New & Used Books, Textbooks, & Rare Books - good source of hard to find new and used books.


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## Lonewolf (Aug 9, 2014)

Help from a psychiatrist???? NOT going to happen!!! (not my choice!!!)

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I am not feeling well enough in myself to be able to cope with being knocked down!! While I appreciate all of your comments, I also find a few of them a little hurtful! I tried to reach out for support and distraction and now I honestly wish I hadn't!! if anyone else wants to give me a kick, now is the time!!! I'm not going to fight back!!! I am very sorry if I seem rude, I didn't expect the reactions!!


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## Peter (Aug 9, 2014)

Hello Lonewolf.

If others can help, psychiatrist or not, then it is better than where you are at now. Don't you think.
So far, you have not been able to help yourself, or you would not be asking for support (help). Or is support something other than help to you?

Over the last 26 years, in my own recovery, I tried to help myself as best I could. Yet when things were not changing, I reached out for support/help.
Sometimes my support was more to do with wanting sympathy for my struggles. I really did not want to hear about actions that required me to face my fears of change.
All my help came in a form that set my self-esteem backwards a bit. It was not exactly what I wanted to hear, but it was what I needed to hear. This is called _tough-love._

If I only seek what I want to hear, is it not the same as what I tell myself when I try to help myself to no avail? 
Help generally comes with some personal resistance to one's self-esteem. It proves to us we are not all powerful and in control as much as we yearn to be. It is a paradox, like everything else.
The paradox of tough-love is that it threatens our self-esteem (knocks us down), yet it is the most honest, caring support/help that we need. It cannot come in any other way.


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## Harebells (Aug 10, 2014)

The thing is though, sometimes people have got to the point of becoming so ill that they genuinely can't take any of the actions suggested to them and may need rest, care, validation and someone to listen for a while to get to the point where they can. I presume you wouldn't tell someone using a wheelchair to just will themselves to stand up. This site seems to have an ethos of accepting mental illness as genuine illness, with possible physical/chemical components  in the brain - so why is there this thing that people experiencing mental illness could control it if we really wanted to? Telling people they should be able to do things that they just can't do at the moment can send them further down.

Sorry Lonewolf, I'm not claiming to speak for you, just for myself and in general.

I certainly don't want to knock anyone else's approach. I know it comes from a good place and it is very useful to hear of other's experiences and what helped them and I am genuinely grateful for that. Just maybe the solution isn't the same for everyone, or sometimes the timing isn't right. People are all different and may have different paths and should be listened to for their own experiences....imo anyway!


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Aug 11, 2014)

Lonewolf asked at the beginning of this thread if she had gotten someone to help her with inducing self-harm by refusing an anesthetic or numbing for the stitches.  I am not sure if this question was really addressed (except perhaps by Harebell).  In my _opinion_, I would respectfully say that because she chose not to have anything to numb the pain that the responsibility still lies with her, and not with the person who was stitching her up.  If she had accepted the numbing/freezing she would have not felt the pain.  But either way, the nurse or technician was going to stitch it because it was dangerous not to stitch it, or to let it get infected.

Lonewolf, I think everyone wants to _help_ you.  I am not sure everyone knows your current situation (me for one).  I get the impression you didn't want to or expect us all to jump in and start offering opinions and advice, or what you perceive as judgements (as in "irrational," for example).  What I think you may have been hoping for was purely empathy and encouragement.  I get the impression that you are kind of stuck for some reason right now and unable to get help through a psychiatrist.

I also get the impression that when you posted this, other people see the danger you are in, and they realize the seriousness of the situation. Even I am trying to resist the urge to say something about getting some kind of alternative help, because it's very hard for me to hear anyone is doing harm to oneself.  I _want_ to help you, but I can't because I am just text on a screen to you.    I think a lot of us feel the same.   So because we cannot be there to stop you from harming, we are doing the best we can to get you to help yourself, each in his/her own way.  We are not trying to criticize you.  We are worried about you and want you to get help.  And we feel helpless. 

I think to some extent we know, in this forum, that mental illness or disorders are not something to be switched off and on like a light switch.  However a lot of practice, patience and persistence can at least get you thinking about _not_ harming yourself when you feel the urge.  Urges are tempting to give in to, but we just want you to try to resist. Anything _else_ you can do to self-soothe?  Perhaps there are some ideas in the forums or books mentioned by other posters?  Have you thought of doing some intense exercise like going to a gym and beating the heck out a punching bag until you are tired?  How about running, if not outside, how about on a treadmill?  

I remember when I s/h, in part it was anger turned on myself.  Like you and Harebells mentioned, if you tried to direct your anger out on the person who made you angry, that would make things worse for you.  In frustration I would sometimes take out my anger on objects or occasionally on myself.  It may have been, in part (as Peter mentioned), because I had control over the harm to myself, whereas I could not control the harm to me by another individual.  But this was in my childhood.  I am an adult now, and I am not sure if you are an adult.  If you are, then you have the means and tools to get help.  You don't have to take your anger out on yourself.  You have the power to stop this.  As was mentioned, you could do art, journal, and so on.  Something where you have control and where you are not doing an act of violence to yourself or anything else with sharp objects. Where you feel _empowered_, and not just giving up to your urges. ♥

You may feel desperate, but we also feel some desperation (especially those who know more about you), to help you.  Please don't feel bad about reaching out, but also perhaps you could clarify what it is you want from us, if not advice.  It is alarming that you are not as concerned about your well-being as some of us are, and that you do not find this as serious a situation.  This is very troubling.  It means you might be in danger.

Another way I have thought of, when I am letting myself be abused by someone in a situation is think about, what would I do to help this person?  What can be done to stop the abuse?  The answer for me is, I would want to help and find a solution.  So then I would ask, well, what I am doing for myself to help me in this situation?  Why would I help someone else, but not myself?  Perhaps, in your case, if someone you loved dearly was doing s/h and that person came to you with that same question, what would you do for them?  Even if at the moment a psychiatrist was not available to them for some reason....?


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## PrincessX (Aug 11, 2014)

*Re: is it s/h?*

Thank you for your post, jolly. It just gets me how no one has compassion for the provider who has to stitch a patient, who is not under anaesthesia. I do not think this can happen here in Canada, Lonewolf, unless you are somewhere out of an institution, somewhere, where no real medical help is avaible, only very basic trauma and emergency measures (like Nunavut rural services). In fact, I know, it does not happen here. The patient would have been deemed incapable to start with and would not have been sent home in this state of mental condition. Also, stitching is not delegated to technicians here. Most of the surgical assisants are physicians, PAs or NPs or first assistant nurse, which is a person with masters and additional 2-3 years only surgical training. Any of the above would have deemed such a patient incapable to agree to their services. There is directives that are followed after that. 
I have no idea though how hospitals in England operate. It was shocking to read your story and in how much danger you are without even realizing it.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Aug 11, 2014)

Yes, I apologize Lonewolf, I am not sure about the person who stitched you up.  I did not mention how they may have felt themselves stitching you up without anesthesia.  But then as mentioned above by Princess, she poses a very good question.  I don't know why someone would allow you to be stitched without anesthesia/freezing either.  I suspect, though, that in a court of law, if you had done further harm to yourself, that person who stitched you up would possibly be liable for your outcome.  Even if you, Lonewolf, were responsible for denying yourself anesthetic, in my opinion, if the person stitching you did not assess that as an issue wherein you needed further help than just stitches, that kind of blows my mind.

However the hospital or legal counsel might disagree with me.  Because I just thought just now: you were not in any shape really to make that call yourself.  If you are not of sound mind, and you did that to yourself, a medical expert should have caught that.  So that person would be on the hook for whatever happened to you next.


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## Harebells (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi PrincessX - I don't think that no one has compassion for the practitioner, it's just that it wasn't the practitioner who started this thread needing support. And someone in an acute crisis might not be capable of thinking like that even though they might be very compassionate generally. I do take your point though.

...Your other comments make me kind of envious of the Canadian healthcare system to be honest! Well I'm sure no system is perfect but from what you're saying they do seem to take a lot of responsibility for patients' welfare. I'm in Ireland, not the uk, but I think the mental health services are fairly similar. Once I went to the A&E when feeling suicidal, I told the psychiatrist on call that I didn't really feel in control of myself and I didn't feel safe. I had been medically admitted for quite a serious overdose a few days earlier. She just told me I should go home and face my environment. It's hard when you go through all the channels you're told to in this situation and still can't get help. It makes you very wary of ever doing it again. There are great doctors and nurses as well but their policies seem a bit arbitrary.

Anyway, me me me, on someone else's thread!! Sorry Lonewolf!! Sorry if we've hijacked your thread. I hope you're feeling a bit better...I hope you'll let us know how things are going whenever you feel up to dropping by. Please take care ok? Hugs x thinking of you


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## PrincessX (Aug 11, 2014)

jollygreenjellybean said:


> Yes, I apologize Lonewolf, I am not sure about the person who stitched you up.  I did not mention how they may have felt themselves stitching you up without anesthesia.  But then as mentioned above by Princess, she poses a very good question.  I don't know why someone would allow you to be stitched without anesthesia/freezing either.  I suspect, though, that in a court of law, if you had done further harm to yourself, that person who stitched you up would possibly be liable for your outcome.  Even if you, Lonewolf, were responsible for denying yourself anesthetic, in my opinion, if the person stitching you did not assess that as an issue wherein you needed further help than just stitches, that kind of blows my mind.
> 
> However the hospital or legal counsel might disagree with me.  Because I just thought just now: you were not in any shape really to make that call yourself.  If you are not of sound mind, and you did that to yourself, a medical expert should have caught that.  So that person would be on the hook for whatever happened to you next.



Depends on the legislation they follow there. It could be a dilemma. I do not think they meant any harm to Lonewolf, which is a factor taken into consideration. I just know the local legislation. There is usually help available to providers on ethical and legal dilemmas. But I know that in Canada and in the USA, any health care provider has to assess the client's ability before informed consent is initiated. Sometimes, this means the same client can be capable to decide on one procedure, but not capable to decide on another. There is guidelines and principles.


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