# Difference between Bipolar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder



## MWCT (Jul 7, 2011)

From a behavioral standpoint, what are the differences between bipolar and borderline personality disorders?

I have a friend who has distinct patterns of behavior - highly manipulative, never takes blame, obsessive about spending time with us, never understands our point of view and if we don't comply with her wishes - it erupts in a tirade.

I have read a lot about both, but cannot find many differences.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: Difference between Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorders*



> never understands our point of view


But you are still friends with her?  



> if we don't comply with her wishes - it erupts in a tirade.



Many times people will unknowingly enable tirades by not walking away, etc.

I would guess that such behavior could be due to either disorder, but there are other possible explanations as well.    Mood disorders like anxiety and depression can also create irritability and difficulty regulating emotions, and recreational drug use can always be a factor and tends to be kept hidden.  As you probably know, bipolar disorder is a mood disorder and BPD is a  personality disorder, with mood disorders being more common than  personality disorders, e.g. people with BPD will often have a mood  disorder as well.  

And, of course, the best thing you can do for her is encourage her to get professional help for her emotional distress.  If she does have bipolar disorder, she may be more willing to get help when she is depressed or experiences other problems like anxiety.


----------



## MWCT (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: Difference between Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorders*

It is actually a family member (mother in law) so it is very difficult.  I said "friend" to protect myself.  Would love to walk away, but cannot.  That would be easier.

She has definitely been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and has seeked help in the past.  I think there is something more.  And I am struggling to deal with the constant issues.

She always thinks we are "hurting her" (plays the victim) and seemingly innocent conversations can explode at the drop of a hat.  I will give a for instance:
Our son's 8th birthday was May 29th....we planned it on Saturday (easier for me).  This family member's 70th birthday was June 1st - so as soon as I planned my son's birthday on the 28th - she zoomed into May 29th for her party.  We politely declined, but were bombarded for a full month before both events on how terrible we were for not attending and that we could admit our mistake and attend....on and on.  It created much stress in our family getting this horrible emails from her and her boyfriend, from what I saw as a simple decision.  

Both her and her boyfriend wanted us collectively to seek counseling for this "important family event" meaning her birthday and not my son's...and did not understand when we declined because it was his actual birthday and we decided to spend the day with him doing what he wanted.  Even that day - she called my son and said if he wanted to come - he should ask us as a last ditch attempt.

And there are many more situations like this - I can't anticipate every situation or facet....and that is what I get caught up trying to figure out.  At this point - the relationship is untolerable.  My husband and I see eye to eye and says that this is just how it is and he has been going through it for many years, but as an outsider to his family - I am trying to lessen the impact this situation is having on me and my family - there are times where you can't think of anything else but how to or how not to respond.

Any tips for handling someone like this?  Maybe it doesn't matter finding out what she has - but I am certainly ready to throw in the towel on this.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: Difference between Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorders*



> did not understand when we declined because it was his actual birthday  and we decided to spend the day with him doing what he wanted.



Wow.  That does seem very narcissistic of your mother-in-law to act that way.  So yeah, in that case there isn't anything you can do except, as you say, choose to respond or not -- even choose to block e-mails and get Caller ID.

I do like the phrase "love at a distance," meaning one can still love someone without communicating with them much at all.

You may find some tips here  (not to say narcissistic-like behavior means one is a narcissist):

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

e.g.



> A decision to have a civil connection is really the most common. This is  an educated place where the adult child knows and accepts that the  connection with the narcissistic parent will not be an emotional bond or  relationship. It will be civil, polite, light, and not emotionally  close. Because of the internal work done by the adult child, this place  of understanding allows the superficial relationship to be ok without  expectations. Because the adult child has completed separation,  acceptance and grief, and has developed sound boundaries, it is possible  then to be "apart of and apart from" at the same time. It is possible  to keep your solid sense of self and not get sucked into the family  dysfunction that has not changed.
> 
> http://forum.psychlinks.ca/narcissi...6421-narcissistic-parents-contact-or-not.html


----------



## Jazzey (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: Difference between Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorders*

Sorry..Your post struck a cord a little with me Melissa.  From experience in my own life, remember that, whatever her diagnosis, her behaviour really smells of manipulation.  The more you play into her manipulation, the stronger that manipulation will get.  I agree with Daniel, you can care about someone at a distance, with strong boundaries at play.  She will undoubtedly try and push them, just be ok with re-affirming those boundaries every time.

good luck.


----------



## Dragonfly (Jul 7, 2011)

MWCT said:


> From a behavioral standpoint, what are the differences between bipolar and borderline personality disorders?



MWCT - sorry that you are caught in such an exhausting and hurtful relationship. Your initial question is actually very interesting .... the bottom line is that (depsite one formally being a mood disorder and one being a personality disorder), they can actually seem quite similiar. And they have a high rate of co-occurance (that is, they have a high rate of occuring together). People with both diagnosis can appear highly emotionally labile and dysregulated. People with both diagnosis can really annoy and hurt those around them with behaviour patterns that seem volitional. People with both diagnosis can be highly sensitive and attuned to people around them, making it easy to expoloit weaknesses if they so choose. People with both diagnosis can often benefit from psychiatric medications from the same general class (mood stabilizers). People with both diagnoses can engage in impusive acts that have significant consequences.

I understand why [we] need to specifically label what is going on .... But sometimes it actually doesn't matter. What matters is your right to be treated decently. And your right to distance if someone can't keep this as a standard of behaviour - regardless of why they can't do it.


----------



## Daniel (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm still surprised by the details.   Is the mother in law 70 years of age?  As a layman, I would wonder about possible contributing factors that may be more physical like thyroid problems or more neurological like dementia.  

In other words, as she gets older, maybe her ability to empathize gets worse due to cognitive decline?

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

Dementia or Personality Disorder?


----------



## Daniel (Jul 11, 2011)

> She has definitely been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and has seeked help in the past. I think there is something more. And I am struggling to deal with the constant issues.



BTW, an example of the importance of the underlying diagnosis:



> Research has shown that if a patient with both BPD and depression is treated for BPD and sees improvement in those symptoms, the symptoms of depression also seem to lift. But, this effect seems to only work in one direction (i.e., treatment solely focused on depression does not seem to alleviate BPD symptoms in patients who have both conditions).
> 
> BPD and Depression - When BPD and Depression Co-Occur




---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

Regarding differences between bipolar disorder and BPD:



> *How are Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder Different?*
> 
> What is the difference between BPD and bipolar disorder, then? Some major components separate the two. While the disorders are both characterized by mood changes, the quality of the mood changes can be very different. In BPD, mood changes are often more short-lived -- they may last for a few hours at a time. In contrast, mood changes in bipolar disorder tend to last for days or even weeks. Also, mood shifts in BPD are usually in reaction to an environmental stressor (such as an argument with a loved one), whereas mood shifts in bipolar disorder may occur out-of-the-blue. Finally, the mood shifts typical of BPD rarely involve elation -- usually the shift is from feeling upset to feeling "OK," not from feeling bad to feeling a high or elevated mood, which is more typical of bipolar disorder.
> Bipolar and Borderline Personality - About.com​






​


----------



## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jul 11, 2011)

MWCT -- It does sound a lot like things my own mother would do. For now I have blocked her email, Facebook account, and phone because I have to numb myself all the time when I am interacting with her. It is not healthy for me at this time... My mother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Playing victim, trying to manipulate by being relentless and persistent and trying to control everything with guilt... _{suggested diagnosis deleted}_. Stand your ground and try to put boundaries up as best you can. You pretty much have to sound like a broken record and repeat yourself a lot, as though you are reminding a spoiled child. And she will be prone to tantrums if she doesn't get her way. Sometimes they get worse when you put your foot down, but they only end up making themselves look bad. I really wish you well. If you decide to keep a 'civil connection' that's very brave but energy/soul-sucking sometimes, and it is almost as hard to separate comepletely -- but it is a very personal decision, and takes people years sometimes to come to grips with a decision. *hugs*


----------



## Always Changing (Jul 11, 2011)

Keeping in mind that this lady is your mother in law and not your own mother,  maybe that will make Keeping a distance a little easier. from reading your post above it seems to me that your husband (her son) has already reached an acceptance of her behaviour.   Does he allow it or does it (her behaviour) upset him?  if not ask him how he lets what happens "over his head" as it were.   Are ye as a couple argueing about her and what she does.   I know you say he sees eye to eye with you, so maybe there is something to be learned from him.  

When I stopped reacting to ex's behaviour\ words, reached a point where it had no power to influence my thinking or emotions,  life became a whole lot easier for me.  
So! this lady is *his* mother, let him do the talking, visiting etc and stand back for a while.  Silence and walking away works wonders, believe me.          

Take a break you need it.


----------



## ailsa (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Difference between Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorders*

Since these events were on two separate days, the 28th nd the 29th, would it not have been possible, for the sake of peace and civility, to make a brief show at her party as part of your son's day - she is his grandmother after all.  If his party was held on the previous day, his actual birthday outing could have included a brief visit to her before or after he began his day on the 29th, maybe to give her a card he made or some other gesture.  Relations between daughters-in-law and mothers-in-law can often be strained and difficult unless both parties are willing to compromise. Perhaps she finds you difficult and unreasonable as well - we only have your intepretation of this occurence.

This situation probably didn't help what appears to be a difficult relationship on both sides.  Your 'politely declining' may have been interpreted by her as deiberate and needless rejection, especially if she is a sensitive emotional sort, since the two events were on different days.  

My daughter and her husband's mother were in this sort of adversarial relationship until I tried on may occasions to get her to see things from the other perspective.  It was hard for her, but she continued to make the effort and things are better - not great, but at least they can visit together for the sake of  my grandson, who needs loving interaction with his other grandmother to feel well loved by both families.7

I could see your point if the events were on the same day, but still, could a quick visit  to smooth things over not be managed on the day of her event or was she insisting you remain for the entire duration?

---------- Post Merged at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:45 PM ----------



Always Changing said:


> When I stopped reacting to ex's behaviour\ words, reached a point where it had no power to influence my thinking or emotions,  life became a whole lot easier for me.
> So! this lady is *his* mother, let him do the talking, visiting etc and stand back for a while.  Silence and walking away works wonders, believe me.



Letting her husband make most of the phone calls and visit with their son took a lot of the pressure off my daughter, so that's good advice.  My daughter has her husband answer the phone if his mother calls.  "Taking your sails out of her wind" can be really effctive.  That way, your son can have time with his grandmother, and you can put your feet up with a good book (my daughter's strategy).  Events like birthdays and holidays, such as the instance you mentioned, can require a bit more diplomacy, but can be managed.  After all, it is probably the two of them she wants to see anyway.  You could opt out when possible and when doing so would not worsen the situation.


----------



## MWCT (Aug 1, 2012)

Ailsa,

This was last year and it started being a small gathering (which we would have agreed to - to your point)....but then it swiftly went to a huge gathering at an expensive restaurant that was not kid - conducive.  My mother in law's birthday is June 1st, my son's May 29th.  She decided she wanted to celebrate them together, not us.  To the point of bringing my son in to tell him that "you can still go if you want to - ask mommy and daddy".  

More things have occurred this year at every family event, so we have gone the direction recently of distancing ourselves from her for a long time.  Each occurance is taking a lot out of us as she turns the tables back on us and doesn't take any responsibilty for her bad behavior.  The next step is always she needs to talk to my husband urgently in person.....and then reads something she prepares for 15-20 minutes and then asks him to leave.  This happened after the event up above.  We are not getting sucked into this again.


----------

