# Philisophical suicide



## BluMac81 (Feb 13, 2009)

Before I begin I must make clear that I have no intention of either harming myself or committing the act of suicide.  I merely pose here a question or perhaps a longing for understanding, enlightenment regarding this subject.

  I engage in DBT therapy and have been keeping the daily record on my journal for weeks now, and under the suicidal urges category, no matter how the day was for me, it is always a 1 (on a scale of 1-5).  Why?  It's kind of hard to explain, but I kind of have this philosophical struggle with the concept of life and death.  Like today, I find myself watching endlessly this tv series (online), and I ask myself "what good is coming from watching this show?".  The answer, the I came to when I searched my heart was "It makes time go by faster."  So in other words, I seem to want my life to speed up, to 'get it over with' in a sense.  Quite possibly because I know for a fact my future is going to be full of struggle and hardship (as everyone's life is)   Granted, there will be opposites of that, joy and peace coming sparratically throughout life.  Yet here I remain, wanting to 'get life over with'.  At night when I try to fall asleep (a big struggle for me), the most comforting thought is the thought of me dying.  The final rest.  And I wonder, what keeps others, with lives much worse than mine, going?  Now for me, suicide is not an option and never will be (for it would hurt my loved ones), but nevertheless my respect for life and all it contains, is very low.  I don't see it as precious and I don't see it as a gift, I see it as curse. Hence why I take so many measures to avoid the real world via entertainment media and the like, in a way, don't we all do that?  

  Anyway pardon my ramblings, I am in no distress and things are going pretty well as can be expected.  I am just curious as to what you others think of this and especially the question of "what makes life precious to you?" or... "what makes life worth living to you?".  Please feel free to include religious reasons as that is most definitely a factor to be considered.

Matt


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

> And I wonder, what keeps others, with lives much worse than mine, going?


As discussed in the book _The Suicidal Mind, _a feature of people with (suicidal) depression is difficulty fulfilling psychological needs, which are what keep everyone going:



> All our activities at home, in school, on the streets, on the job, during the day, after hours, and in our dreams and fantasies, are expressions of these needs that, to one degree or another, motivate our lives. (pg. 19)
> 
> The Suicidal Mind - Google Book Search


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## ladylore (Feb 13, 2009)

Hey Matt,
My life is going pretty good right now but a certain points I have had the same types of thoughts you have mentioned. 

I think this is personal for each individual but for me it helped to gain spirituality (I somehow lost the meaning of anything a few years back).  It's helped me put meaning of things back into my life. Saying that I don't give things so much meaning that I don't enjoy the smaller things.

But I truly feel that I and everyone has a purpose to be here. Going for a walk near the river is spiritual, seeing a new born is spiritual. And I figure since I am here I may as well get as much healthy pleasure out of this life.

The question I have for you is what brings you awe? What fascinates you?

It's answers to these types of questions that have put meaning back into my own life. Don't know if this helps but it has worked for me.

One more thing - I know there probably will be more pain in my future because things do happen. What I have learned is how to deal with it better and still feel part of the world.


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

BluMac81 said:
			
		

> I don't see it as precious and I don't see it as a gift, I see it as curse.


Even when I'm very depressed, I still think the Internet and music is cool     People with depression, including myself, tend to gloss over or discount these positive experiences when contemplating their lives as it's much easier to remember the negative stuff:



> The results showed that those participants who had been put in a ruminative mood tended to recall more negative memories than those who'd been engaged in the filler task.
> 
> This experiment is evidence for the second part of the depressive cycle: that ruminative thinking leads to the recall of more negative memories. This in turn is likely to lead to depression.
> 
> The Persistence of Memory - Psychlinks


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## Jazzey (Feb 13, 2009)

I had a good friend of mine tell me lately that I'm "wishing my life away".  She wasn't far off BluMac.  

I love what LL has suggested about remembering what brings you those moments of awe.  I'm trying currently to remember what those are.  Holding a newborn is definitely up there, playing with a toddler or young child brings a smile to my face every time and, playing with a dog or a cat is up there too.  Taking a walk along the shore so that I can see the ocean - that makes me remember why I'm still here. Hugging or showing affection to someone that I love - also reminds me of why I'm here.  They all make me feel *alive* during their duration.  For the rest of the time, I'm a bit of an automaton.

I tend to live my life a little too much in a regimented way  - I have a very regimented routine with work and getting things done around my home. So much so that anything that comes in to intrude feels uncomfortable for me.  

..That's what my friend was suggesting.  And she was bang on...  To get out of my suicidal thoughts, I try and remember all those things that make me feel *alive*....


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

> Like today, I find myself watching endlessly this tv series (online), and I ask myself "what good is coming from watching this show?". The answer, the I came to when I searched my heart was "It makes time go by faster."


Regarding watching TV, it's certainly better than self-harming, and, of course, most people in college watch TV as a break from studying. (I used to study during the commercials ) 

But this thread (and the article below) does make me wonder, though, about your social life or lack thereof:

What Happy People Dont Do - NYTimes.com


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## BluMac81 (Feb 14, 2009)

Daniel:  Thanks, I'll look into that book, I'm beginning to see that it is indeed both a combination of social, cognitive, and biological reasons that some are more 'on the edge' than others in terms of suicide.

Ladylore: 





> The question I have for you is what brings you awe? What fascinates you?


Interesting question  there are many things that fascinate me, many.  But things that bring me awe?  What is 'awe' to someone is quite subjective.  I could say that I am left in awe at the end of a good episode of Naruto, Bleach, House, or Oz...you know, tv shows, or a good movie, like 'Passion of the Christ'.  But this, this is fantasy, a dream, fiction, not reality.  To answer your question I pondered this silently for quite a while, there is one thing.  The smile of my nephew, watching him grow   He is 10mos old now, just learning to walk and...well, he has this shy smile he does when he looks at me, smiling then turning away as if bashful, I can't help but smile back   And God knows I am so thankful for having one family member in my sister, one the only child myself and siblings have created.  Also, on rare occasions I have felt... well, what pentacostal Christians might refer to as an 'annointing'.  I remember as a kid, ever so devout in Christianity, I walked up this mountain that had a cross on the top, and on the way up I sang worship songs of God.  Halfway up I met a solitary coyote pup, we stared at eachother for several minutes, not making a move, I was not frightened, simply fascinated (there's a sample of what fascinates me), anyway I proceeded up to the top of the mountain, and as I nearly reached the top, singing songs of praise, I laughed, no reason at all, I felt this great joy inside of me and laughed purely from that joy.  From God, that is as close as I have ever gotten to him (though it could be all circumstancial), and as I have become a reborn Christian through the glimpse of the love of God in my darkest hour, I know that there is some joy to be had there, some awe, however short-lived.  And as for what fascinates me, life!  Yes life I view is a curse, but I am fascinated by the sciences, biology, chemistry, psychology, ethology (study of animal behavior), and just how the world works.  Simply observing people fascinates me, but does not give me joy.

  They say that you should do with your life (career wise) in whatever you answer to the question of 'if you had no limitations, unlimited money, unlimited free time, what would you do with your life'.  My answer would be:  I would take all the money and launch a large-scale psychiatric research facility for coming up with new, biomedical methods for treating psychiatric illnesses. I would make it my passion, my life. It wouldn't be work, it would be my destiny, my calling. That and, well, I would limit my workdays when I want to, control of my own time is such a blessing! I'd donate to the poor and needy of course, hand out wads of cash to beggars on the street, not without giving them a talking to though regarding how to start their new life. And hey, I would enjoy life, live it to the fullest! Get on the beaches sippin margaritas, go sky diving, hang gliding, learn to fly a plane, everything man. I would leave nothing undone. if only money weren't a limitation eh? What works we could do.  So, what would you all do?  What is your answer to that question? 

Jazzey:  Ahh how I relate to you.  Automation mode indeed.  You might check out S.L. Robbin's Video on 'Mindlessness': http://www.slrobbins.com/speaking.  It was quite powerful.  And the regimented days, oh I know of that oh too well.  Psycologists have been trying to get me to rip up my to-do lists for ages lol.  Things that make you feel "alive", you say.  Not on autopilot... indeed the song "Hurt" cover by Johnny Cash comes to mind... the first lyrics "I hurt myself today to see if I still feel, I focus on the pain, the only thing that's real."  And indeed, pain is reality, but pleasure is too.  Healthy pleasure.  Like some days, when I am particularlly mindful and unstressed, I would be driving around, to stop at a red light, and as I slowly watch my breath, I take in every sight around, the skyline of the rockies overshadowing Colorado Springs appears as a beautiful work of art, and I focus on it, take it in.  But then the green light hits and we must 'go go go' in this life often do we not?  Oh just a little mindfulness day to day would do us all good.  In the end, it is your perspective, your perception of the world, that matters most.

Daniel:


> Regarding watching TV, it's certainly better than self-harming, and, of course, most people in college watch TV as a break from studying. (I used to study during the commercials )


And yea Daniel, having little tv show marathons are definitely better than self-harming.  Hard to enjoy though when you feel guilty, always things to be done when you're a full-time college student, always things to be done.  Must maintain that 4.0 gpa!  Heh.  Anyway I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but the tv show I am currently focused on in my 'marathons' (pretty much the only thing I do when I'm broke), is the show "Oz".  Violence, suffering, and the reality of the human struggle reek in that show, and I love it.  I don't know why, and I don't know if this is 'toxic tv' so to speak, but I am indeed addicted to it, but the episodes will run out lol.  

Anyway there is hope I believe.  I'm going through the process of signing up to be a big brother.  Volunteering and getting involved in the community.  Hmmph, I guess this is all the typical struggle of a 20-something eh?  I guess I'm not so different from the others after all.

Which leads me to what you pointed out that I might have a lack of a social life, and that is indeed true.  My roommate, my one friend Tina.... I speak and my words are not heard.  All that is reflected back to me is how horrible their life is, or how their day was, etc.  And I listen.  Always about them, the world revolving around them, and they suffer for it.  Maybe the way out is to take the focus off yourself, and dedicate your life to helping others.  Maybe that is where you will find your joy, your awe?  We shall see   So yes you're right, I'm isolated.  Not as isolated as before, living with a roommate and all, having one friend in town, having one sister and nephew in town.  That's all I really need... though me and my sister, were both raised to not be affectionate, rarely do we hug, but there is love as siblings nevertheless, and I'm ever so grateful for her   Still, being kind of new to college, I find so many cliques and groups of people who have friends, study together, have fun together.... make college fun for eachother, and I want that.  In time my mother says, in time.  Patience is certainly not a trait commonly inherent in young adults.... it seems we, or maybe just I, live life to fast.  And I've found that if you slow your life down (in mindfulness), you enjoy it.  Is that what it's like when you get older?  I hope so


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## ladylore (Feb 14, 2009)

I hope you keep this, print it out even and read it over and over Matt.  It's beautiful.


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## Into The Light (Feb 14, 2009)

matt, having suffered from depression myself i can see why you have the perspective of life being a curse. i felt that way myself and at times when i am having a bad day i sort of feel that way again.

maybe in reality life isn't a curse. maybe it's the depression that is the curse. life can be so intensely beautiful. or boring 

when i have a string of good days i love life. i love spending time with the people i care about and i enjoy my work and i feel alive. i think of all the things i still want to do but don't have the time for.

the things i love about life are indeed things like you mention, the smile of your 10 month old nephew. _that_ is what life is all about. that connection with the people we love, and seeing babies grow and change and seeing the world through their eyes. paying attention to what's going on in nature. feeling a part of this vast universe. being in awe and wonder of the miracle of life and the chances of us even being here. 

i struggle with my view on life at times because it can be so incredibly painful. it's the depression that hurts so badly. i really think now that life is 50/50. 50% pain, and 50% amazing. i don't know if this helps or makes things worse. i do struggle with it. it's that 50% of amazing that we need to hang on to.


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## BluMac81 (Feb 14, 2009)

Thanks Ladylore and Intothelight, I'll keep that all in mind.  Today though well rested I simply feel drained and depressed for some reason, no energy or motivation to do much of anything on my mile long todo list...lol.  So i'll take a catnap and then pray to God asking him to re-energize my spirit  Then go to a movie (Twilight) with my roomie this evening.  Distraction indeed, key in the DBT program.

Happy Valentines Day to all


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## ladylore (Feb 14, 2009)

How about starting with the first thing on the list and forget about the rest until that item is done.


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## Into The Light (Feb 14, 2009)

what's behind those lists, blumac? what is it they provide you with that you cannot give them up no matter how many psychologists have tried to get you to shorten them?


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## BluMac81 (Feb 14, 2009)

Ladylore, I tried, I laid down and started working on homework but my concentration level was just no there, so went back to napping.  I just need some mental energy.  Arrgh.

IntotheLight, the lists are for memory, motivation, and meaning.  The 3 m's you might say.  I am quite forgetful therefore won't remember to do certain todo's that would, in the long term, be meaningful (for example, fill out paperwork to be a Big Brother as a todo), and the motivation, well, that's where the unhealthy crutch lies I suppose.  Usually setting goals each day in a numbered list of to-dos to accomplish motivate me more so than just drawing from memory what I needed to do, struggling with trying to remember such things and not being able to remember would nag at and plague my mind more so than todos that are known but unaccomplished.  So that's the answer 

Anyway, distraction now.  I'm going out with my roommate to see Twilight


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## amastie (Feb 14, 2009)

Hi BluMac,
I find such lists helpful too.
Hope you enjoy/ed Twilight


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## Halo (Feb 14, 2009)

I think that to do lists are helpful to remember what needs to be done during a day however when someone puts so much pressure upon themselves to get everything on that list accomplished that they end up feeling bad about themselves and having negative self-talk it becomes counterproductive to have and keep such lists, in my opinion.


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## amastie (Feb 14, 2009)

Halo said:


> I think that to do lists are helpful to remember what needs to be done during a day however when someone puts so much pressure upon themselves to get everything on that list accomplished that they end up feeling bad about themselves and having negative self-talk it becomes counterproductive to have and keep such lists, in my opinion.


I nver complete all that's on my list.  I agree with you Halo, that if you are emotionaly invested in completing the list then it is likely not to be a good idea.  My main reason for having one is to organize my thoughts, and hopefully to accomplish even one or two things.  It also helps me to prioritize what I need to do - but again, that typically goes by the wayside too.  If I have no list, it's very easy for me  to do literally nothing all day.  A list is a physical way of helping me to see what there is that can be done.


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## BluMac81 (Feb 15, 2009)

*Not good*

Well, I never would of thought today would be such a wretched day.  I did go out with my roommate, had to lie to her... about an email I sent to her prior roommate and ex-friend that I sent when we were fighting (was simply an email asking if my roommate normally acts this way).  The roommate was fine tonight, she caused no problems.  But we ended up having to see this stupid movie and I wanted to leave cause I was feeling sick and in pain cause of my back (the seats were horrible), but she was enjoying it so I didn't want to up and leave.  I came home to find on my bank statement that I have ten overdraft fees from...grr...Wells Fargo, amounting to $350, that I should not owe, I won't get into the details of why it is unjust but now with an account balance of -287... anger overcame me and i began thinking about what harsh words I will be saying to them tomorrow when I call, in addition I get a letter stating that my student financial aid is going to be reduced... more financial problems!  Another month in poverty....arrrggh.  This all got me riled up so I took another xanax, which I shouldn't have since it was my 7th of the day, and I'm perscribed 6th.  I had some tobacco dip which usually relaxes me but it only made me feel sick (between that and the Wendys hamburger I had), and then I was shaking and nauceous.  Took a hot shower (self-soothe dbt technique), and prayed.  I'll not handle any more of this today.  I pray only that I may rest tonight.  Sorry to lay my burdens upon you in such a place but, still I feel you all are my closest friends, truly.  And my urges for suicide have reached a 3 on a 1-5 scale.  Maybe I'm just weak.  I'm sorry


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## Jazzey (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm sorry BluMac.  I know the effects of stress - your post resonated with me.   The financials are definitely not fun.  For tonight, do you think that you can just go to bed and get a good night's sleep.  You're not weak either - you're stressed out with everything.  So - one day at a time.  Don't worry about this tonight.  Get a good night's sleep - solid sleep. Tomorrow, maybe spend an hour or so figuring out the most important financial stuff that you need to figure out right now. And then go from there....

(and you're not laying your burdens on us - that's what we do here - we support one another  )

I'm here for a while BluMac if you want to chat.


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## amastie (Feb 15, 2009)

BluMac,
do you mind me asking how much Xanax you take daily.  I'm now taking up to 4mg  which worries me because it's more than I usually take
Thanks


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## BluMac81 (Feb 15, 2009)

6mg a day as perscribed.  My tolerance is high which is why the dose is high.


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## amastie (Feb 19, 2009)

BluMac81 said:


> 6mg a day as perscribed.  My tolerance is high which is why the dose is high.


Thanks BlueMac.  I've been feeling a bit unwell and I think that it's due to diet making me a bit weak and that causing the mental/emotional symptoms to be a bit worse.  Still, I've woken the last few days wanting immediately to take some Xanax,  which is unusual  which made me wonder if I might now be starting to develop an addiction.  My psychiatrist isn't worried at all (or wasn't when we last spoke.  She's been too busy to get back to me.)  I farily certain though that it is my diet causing my general lethergy and low mood etc snd making me more anxious.   Have had my GP arrange tests to see if it might have a physical cause.  Although I don't take more than 3.75mg, I have taken a couple of doses in one day a few times since starting to feel generally unwell.


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