# Chronic Suicidality ... Playing the long game ...



## A Nonny Mouse

So ... New here, but guess this is the area we need to grasp and sort.
Everyday we make small steps to ruin our body so that eventually we have an organic death, therby avoiding the stigma for the children of a parent ending their life. If we could, we would end it right now, we have no desire to live, but the fact the stigma would affect them so much usually prevents acute actions. 
We just wonder how much longer it will take .... 
We've been upping the ante the last few weeks, pushing the day to come closer and closer.
No-one has worked this out yet. Its well hidden.
Sigh ... Just 'venting' ... 

Sorry

Anm x


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## David Baxter PhD

And why are you doing what you're doing? Have you ever been and/or are you currently seeing a therapist? Are you taking any prescribed medications?

What about alcohol or street drugs?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Why ... ? We don't want to live this life anymore ...

Yes have a therapist, also under the cmht.

Prescribed anti-d's but don't take them.

Occsaionally drink, no street drugs ...

---------- Post Merged at 06:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:47 AM ----------

Christ we sound like an aweful person, not a great start to a new community. Doesn't matter. Forget we said anything ... 

Sorry


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## MHealthJo

A start in a new community might eventually lead to something better...

There might be reasons to live.... it's important to carefully consider what they might be... there might be some, but we may just not be aware of them at this time. Or might not be able to see them that way yet...


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## A Nonny Mouse

Indeed ... 

Sigh, everything is just ...

Dunno.

Guess we are just one of those people who are a lost cause ...


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## Been there Done that

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I almost made a suicide attempt two and a half years ago due to a bad reaction to an antidepressant making me chemically depressed (cymbalta). I am now taking another antidepressant and after two or three years of cognitive behavioural therapy I have no more suicidal thoughts. I am happy and want to live no matter how hard life seems. 
Don't give up now things really do get better. Continue taking your prescribed meds and don't give up.
All things are difficult before they are easy.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Apprecaite the replies.

We see ending our life as a permanent solution to a permanent problem. We will never change and have always been tainted and all the rest. 

At some point something has to give up. Like we say, a lost cause ...


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## MHealthJo

You are not tainted, though.... that isn't correct. 

You do not know the future because you don't know what it would be like to live with different beliefs...


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## forgetmenot

I am glad you are talking to us here  seeing life through eyes of depression is so hard hun.   I do understand and the thoughts of leaving can be peaceful really as you feel you have some control of you.   No matter how you leave your family will grieve and be affected by it ok.  Don't let depression fool you into thinking there is a peaceful way for your loved ones to see you gone   Use that energy you are using to be unwell to get well ok  i know it hard hell im there too  but with your therapist  you can do it  one day time
Start today by taking care of YOU ok  eat something  drink something that will give your body strength to fight.   Talk to your pdoc  let know that you are not taking meds and why  hard i know  but you can do it.   Meds will help  even if you take them to get you out of the darkness some ok then decide later if you want to stay on them 

Keep talking to us ok  it helps to know one is not alone  coming here  you will have support you did not have before  so hold on ok  one day at a time  hugs


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## A Nonny Mouse

So went to gp today and said bluntly we don't want to live and that we took too many tablets etc last night. He said he would phone the cmht.
Cmht phoned, best they can do is leave a message for our care-coordinator to phone us next week when he's back off sick. Which of course he won't do as we have an offical compllaint in against him. So ... Basically ... Doesn't matter carry on till we succeed ....


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## forgetmenot

Nonny Mouse  you carry on fighting to get those supports you deserve ok   If your care coordinator does not call you   YOU CALL HIM until he hears you ok   
It is hard to fight i know but you are worth the fight  dont  let anyone make you feel less ok   don't give them that power hun hugs


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## Ftbwgil

Hi Nonny Mouse..... If you do something to yourself it will devastate the ones that are close to you... guaranteed.....If you reversed it and a person who you love ended their life and you really loved this person... would you not be devastated..... would you not search for the reason they did this..... Your cry out for help is heard and hearftfelt.  You know you need help  .... we all do and their is no shame in that.... as a matter of fact their is pride in being able to look at oneself and see ourselves clearly.  That's when the recovery starts.... might not feel like that now but start writing down what you feel.... and be brutally honest with no fear to write whatever comes to mind and empty all that sorrow you have.  As time goes by the sun will be brighter the the sky clearer and you will take a nice big deep breath and look back at the time of darkness and realize it was just temporary.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Oh we went and did it properly didn't we ... Collected bacteria and injected into several places in thigh and one in breast. On antibiotics now as at this moment don't particularly want to die, but the infection is severe and one has burst this evening and seeing (and smelling) what we had caused has freaked us a little. At how close we were to maybe not making it ... Everyone knows, psych, gp, therapist, counscellor, cmht, none thinks its a problem we do this and may actually push it too far ... Of course its not down to them, just ... Mind you psych didn't believe us so ...


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## Mari

Are you at home right now? Is there someone with you to help you through this? What support have they put in place for you? Sorry for all the questions but I am concerned and caring for how you are managing.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Oh its fine, always is x


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## Jesse910

You are in an incredible amount of pain.  Yet, you chose to reach out.  The fact that you are venting makes me think that there is still a shred of hope inside of you.  You are safe here and no one is going to harm you.  If you want to fight, scream, yell in your post, that is perfectly okay.  If the stress in your life escalates to a point where it becomes unbearable, asking for help will not diminish your power over yourself.  It will empower you more.


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## A Nonny Mouse

We reached out, had police and paramedics called on us, now have lost main responsibility for kids and sleep in a shed ... Yay for reaching out ... Lost the last parts of normality we had ... Give up ...


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## Retired

Can you get yourself checked into the Emergency Department of your local hospital, or perhaps a local mental health facility?

What about a religious organization or a shelter for homeless or abused individuals?

Is there a family member, a trusted friend, a spiritual advisor you can contact?

Do you have access to a local crisis line you can call for help?

Why is the shed the only viable alternative as a result of this incident?


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## A Nonny Mouse

This was three weeks ago, or just after previous post it seems. Asked for help, red panic button got pressed. Because we had crisis team, police and paramedics turn up and the risk of that scaring the children, it was already agreed we would move out and ex would move in so kids don't have the risk of being taken away. Lived in the car for a week. Now moved into the shed in the garden. Nowhere else to go. Have no family, have no friends. Own fault, we created the problem. Just saying the result of asking for help ... Stupid idea


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## forgetmenot

Your children are safe ok  when you are more stable to look after yourself then you will have your children returned to you  but you need to get well hugs


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## rdw

I never believe asking for help is a stupid idea. Living in the shed isn't a solution - how did that decision come about?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Our children were NEVER at risk ... EVER ... So why should we be puinished for asking for help ? Why should we lose everything ... Why should we have to sleep in a cold damp shed ... Forget it. Obviously all our fault, deserved and all the rest


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## rdw

Who did you turn to for help? And again how did living in the shed become a solution? Is there a plan in place for care for you - counselling, medication, therapy, hospitalization?

---------- Post Merged at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:15 PM ----------

And no one says it's your fault - we are just all trying to understand your situation and help you.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Our gp, therapist, counscellor all knew what we had done. We had contacted a mental health charity chatline thing. They called everyone out, although god knows how they knew our address. 
We are in the shed as its that or the car. If we sign the tenancy of the house over to ex so we can find somewhere else to stay we won't be able to move back. He will have permenant control. Have private  therapy which we pay for and meds via gp. Cmht know, buit aren't bothered. As long as we don't bother them, they are happy. Well it is our fault. We caused the problem, we have to suck it up and accept consequences


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## rdw

No you didn't cause the problem but you do have to advocate for a solution for yourself. Why did the mental health chat line call in the authorities? Have you seen your therapist since this all occurred?

---------- Post Merged at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:40 PM ----------

Are you taking your medications now - as I recall you weren't taking it though medication was prescribed.


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## A Nonny Mouse

They obviously thought there was a risk somewhere ... Dunno. Never found out. Don't 'see' therapist, its done via phone, but yes have spoken. Everyone with mh team etc know ... None of them see it as a problem so .. We are just moaning and being ungrateful. Selfish as always.

---------- Post Merged at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:45 AM ----------

Have to take the medications, or hubby will not allow us to see kids. No choice. Same with therapy.


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## rdw

Why not ask the question of why they thought there was a threat to your well being? I'm not sure I understand why no one thinks that living in a shed is a problem. Does your therapist have any suggestions regarding your situation ? Regardless of the reason, I'm glad to hear that you are taking your medication. How old are your children?


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## A Nonny Mouse

We asked, but as they don't know who we spoke to, they can't help apprently. Just that the person must have thought there to be a risk. Not lying. They know we sleep in the shed on a sofa bed. Obviously not a problem. Like we say, just us being stupid and ungrateful. Medication is useless. Anti-d's are not the answer and are irrelevant in regards to the incident.  Children are 8 and 9.


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## Retired

> Medication is useless. Anti-d's are not the answer



What has been your experience to bring you to that conclusion?


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## rdw

I found that anti depressants helped me make healthier decisions for me once they had levelled out my depression and anxiety. Are they the total and complete fix - no of course not but as I said they allowed me to begin to make good decisions for myself and helped me to start moving forward. Four years later I'm still learning how to keep moving forward. 
How is this incident different from some of your other incidents? Have you specifically asked your therapist what he or she thinks of your current living situation? 
How are your children coping with this disruption in their lives?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Anti'ds are not successful (alone) for bpd. Anti'ds have not worked previously in the 15 odd years we've tried. Oh whatever ok. Obviously we are just making it up, therapist doesn't agree with it it seems, but nothing he can do. Forget it. Seriously. We aren't worth it. Thanks anyways


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## Jesse910

First of all NM, I'm very glad that you wrote in again.  I'm sorry for the predicament you are facing.  And, you are correct,anti-depressants alone do not assist with bipolar depression.

I don't know where you live, but there has to be a shelter or emergency assistance for you.  You must be willing to take the first step to get help.  It would also be good to have your meds reviewed by a doctor.  Sometimes, when we feel bad, we have to work a tad harder to be heard and in a non-violent manner.  You need proper shelter, food, and, medical attention.  From what you've said thus far, the children are fine.  And, you can have contact with them.  Hang onto that.  As a mother, if anyone tried to take my son away, that would gear me up to get him back.

This community is comprised of a lot of people who can help you if you so desire.  I hope you will stay in touch.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Not sure why people constantly question our desire ? ... Right ok. Great.

---------- Post Merged at 04:06 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:04 AM ----------

Oh and bpd is borderline, not bipolar which is bp.            o


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## rdw

To be honest I think you question your desire as well as you're still here and you're still talking.  Thinking about suicide as a solution is a fall back defence pattern for a lot of us when life becomes overwhelming painful yet again. No one believes you're making this up - we get it. Why do you think we're here? Each of us on this forum has struggled to find our way and fought back against a variety of life circumstances and forms of mental illness. At times I'm merely one step away from going back to my fall back defence pattern as life is not always easy or pretty. What I do know is healing is about finding a solution - one step at a time and using all of the resources available to each of us. Sounds simple right - um no but there are days it's really worth it.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Today is no better ..  just constantly being sick and ..  want out. So bad. Pathetic existence


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

You want out because the pain and dispair has intensified to the point of you feeling incapacitated.  _When we come to the end of ourselves, we need to allow the hands that are stretched out to receive us_.  As a community, we continue to offer support, suggestions, and options.  Honey, you need to find it within yourself to trust someone.  You need to get yourself to the nearest hospital and walk in.  If you are unable to communicate because you are afraid, please do not let that stop you.  *There are solutions to your situation.*  They take time, but they can and will help you.  *You need hands on people who can help you put the pieces of your life back together*.  If you cannot do it for yourself, do it for your children.  *You can get well*.  If you are afraid of the hospital process, I understand that.  I've been there.  It is frightening to undergo.  However, once that part is over, you start regaining your life -- one step at a time.  And, you have all of us to cheer you on.  Please believe and know that.  One step forward.  You feel pain today because your situation appears hopeless.  It is not.  You are a valuable human being who has lots of possibilities.  Do not give up.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Hospital not an option. Will lose kids. When we come out they will be gone. Just shut up and carry on is all we can do


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## Retired

Is there a legal aid system you can access where you can receive legal advice on how you can get the mental health treatment you need, while your children are in a safe and temporary foster care environment during your treatment?

Your primary concern should be to receive the medical care you need, so that you can care for your children when you get better.


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## A Nonny Mouse

They are not going into foster care. Would rather die and let him and his gf have perment responsibility than that. Doesn't matter. Like we say, will just shut up and get on with existing.


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

If something bad happens to you, what will that do to your children?  A healthy mom is what they need.  I understand your feelings towards your ex.  Steve raised a good question, is there a legal aid system within your community that you can contact?  I'm not understanding how you could lose your kids being hospitalized.  You are seeking help for yourself and in seeking help, you are not harming yourself.  I hope you can reconsider your options.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Their father will assume full permenant care if we have crisis team involved again or any other such stuff. Basically we are not allowed to display any negative traits. Because we asked for help a few weeks back when attempted to end life, it resulted in crisis teams being involved and him moving back into the house and us moving out (into the car at that point) we now live in the shed in the garden, he and his gf live in the house with the kids. We are trying desperatly to keep it temporayry. But if crisis happens again, we will lose them.


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

Your love for your children comes through loud and clear.  This is the reason why I believe and as Steve mentioned that you need to talk with someone in legal services to find out what your rights are with regards to your children.  Your ex appears to have a lot of power over you and that may or may not be right.  I know how much you love the kids, but you need assistance.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Assistance where ? We've been screaming out for months, no-one listens. No-one (in terms of mental health workers) does anything. All well and good saying get help. There isn't any. And we cannot access any crisis service anymore. Legally we cannot do anything. If we try and regain control of the kids, he has already said he will fight for custody and will win (he will win) so ... Is this or nothing.... Eventually our body will give up and we can sleep and never wake.


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## MHealthJo

I wonder Nonny if your hope in having some custody or rights with your kids is as hopeless as you think it is? 

Even when there are illnesses or problems in a person... does that truly mean that someone else can threaten and take all their rights away....?  I don't know if that could really happen if you are not a danger to your children... I thought that someone would have to be a real major direct danger to their kids to be able to have all their rights taken away so easily like that. And I don't think that the law system would look very well on a parent who lets another parent live in a shed, and also stops the other parent from getting health care by using custody threats.


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## Mari

I agree with Steve that it might be time for some legal assistance and that you really need someone on your side. When I could not advocate for myself I was directed to a lawyer and the people who would not listen to me did listen to my lawyer and it sure helped. The following information might be helpful to you. You and your children are worth every step forward that you can take.

"The first thing to do if you believe your human rights may have been  breached is to talk to someone else about the problem. It may sound  obvious, but it is surprisingly common to feel scared to speak up about a  situation ? for fear of possible repercussions, perhaps.You could talk to a trusted friend, relative or colleague or you can  consider talking to someone who may be part of a support group or advice  line. This will help you to consider the issue as objectively as  possible. Remember that, however distressing, your situation may not legally involve human rights concerns.Find out more about potential organisations who may be able to offer you help or advice with your problem."


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## A Nonny Mouse

Thanks, but doesn't matter. Everyone knows the situation, and sure if it was an issue something would be said or done. Obviously us over-reacting as per usual. Just fed up of waiting to die ...


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## MHealthJo

Sometimes people who should help with a situation don't, until legally they are pressured to or until they are pressured to by some other force (for example what the public would think if a situation was known, pressure from higher levels in an organisation, pressure from an advocate or person who really knows the law and knows your rights.)

I really do think hun that there is someone who could help you, just  maybe not the people who have known your situation so far....


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## rdw

A Nonny Mouse said:


> Everyone knows the situation..


 who is everyone? How are your children coping with the change in the living environment?


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## Retired

> Just fed up of waiting to die ...



I would submit that your reason to live is to protect your children from the family members you say have let you down.  You need to get legal help in order to protect your rights while getting the medical help you need.


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## Retired

Additionally NHS Choices offers a number of crisis resources for help with suicidal thoughts

Legal Aid services in the U.K.

Check If You Qualify for Legal Aid

I answered the questions related to your situation and it appears your situation qualifies for legal aid, Nonny.


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## forgetmenot

The only way to keep your children is to get yourself strong and healthy so you have the grounds to help them  ok  If you are gone they who helps them no one


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## A Nonny Mouse

They are safe with their dad, he would never ever do anything to hurt them. All this is his way of protecting them. We both put them first, no matter what. It was our stupidity that led to this. Not his actions. He is just protecting the kids. He isn't the bad guy here. Its just hard to deal with and with nothing changing inside. We still do not want to live. We will, we have no choice. But we don't want to. We have no desire to. We spend every moment of everyday wishing we would never wake again. Wishing the wounds we've caused willl finally cause severe enough damage to the heart or the tablets will finally cause the liver to fail. Death by misadventure ...

---------- Post Merged at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:08 AM ----------

Thank you, everyone that responded or tried to help. Just got to learn to suck it up and .... Just .. Wish we weren't so useless and pathetic.


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## rdw

If he is not the bad guy and would do anything for his children why not take this opportunity to seek the help you need to heal? Frankly to refuse to pursue a healthy life for yourself robs your children of a relationship that is vital to them now and in the future. Children need their parents in their lives long past childhood.


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## forgetmenot

YOu are harming your children then by harming you  YOU are harming them  you are passing on the suicidal trait teaching them the only way out is to do themselves in
Your voices  your thoughts can be helped  with therapy meds YOU can be helped  thus helping your children   showing them   that   when one is not well it is ok to reach out and to get help one needs to heal    

I too have constant thoughts of leaving all time i want to so badly leave but i don't because i won't harm  anyone i care for i won't by leaving i won't and neither can you


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## A Nonny Mouse

Wow thanks for replies and blame. Game over then eh. Codiene intake is upping matter of time hopefully. Like anyone gives a toss ...


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## Harebells

Sorry you're feeling so awful nonny mouse. Do you still get to see your kids much? What age are they? (only if you want to say) Are you getting any help/support at the moment? Sorry if you've said all this before, I haven't read the whole thread. I hope you feel better soon, but I understand how it can feel hopeless. hugs x


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## Retired

No one has been blaming you, but they have been trying to bring the reality of your situation to you.  Your actions, whatever you choose to do,  will impact your children for the rest of their lives.  They are your reasons for living, and are the ones who care most about what you do.

In a suicide, the ones who are impacted most severely are the innocent family members and friends of the perpetrator.

There are solutions to your situation, but you need to act on some of the suggestions that have been made to you.

Have you reached out to your local resources?


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## A Nonny Mouse

What local resources ?? They all know what's going on. They all know we are just waiting to die, they know. It doesn't matter. As long as we turn up for group therapy and take whatever they prescribe, it doesn't matter. Compliance. As long as we comply. Harebells, we live in the shed of the house so see the kids everyday as cheaper than childcare.


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## rdw

No one is blaming you but I know that you have to heal yourself to be the mother your children deserve. Take our advice or don't as you see fit - your choice.


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## A Nonny Mouse

There is no choice, why can't people understand this ? Think its fun not wanting to live ? To wish every second of everyday that it will be our last ? To not want things better ... ? Yeah ok, whoop whoop we love it, we relish it, we adore the hell hole this existance is ... Anyone else want to join our party ?? We have cake ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny,

There is always a choice.  What you are feeling is distorting your view of life right now.  Many of us have been down the path that you are on now.  I have been where you are.  It was frightening.  I had just lost my job; I felt like a failure; my mother did not know how to help as I was an embarrassment to her.  I hated myself to the core.  However, some friends of mine saw me beyond that point and I got the help that I needed.  It took a while to get the right diagnosis but when it happened, I started to feel better.  Right now, your brain is sending you mixed signals that are not healthy.  For the past few weeks, you have been reaching out for help and we've been trying our best to give it to you.  

I know you're scared, but you are not alone.  You have a community who cares.  I wish you could hang onto that.  It took me a lot of years to finally admit to myself that my family never would have understood if I had ended my life.  The one person who keeps me going when I feel horrible and start beating myself up is my son.  I love him to pieces and I would never want to do anything to harm him.

Your kids still need their Mom.  Be there for them.


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## rdw

Yes there is a choice - there is always a choice. Your thinking is faulty and only through receiving psychiatric help can you change your thinking around. We have all been in your shoes - suicidal thinking was my default solution for years . Guess what - flawed thinking on my part. So I do get it and I know you can change it but only if you seek help and refuse to give up


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## A Nonny Mouse

We have a psychatrist ... They know we are playing the long game, they know we have and do attempt death via injecting bacteria to cause heart problems. Doesn't concern them so ... Shall just carry on.


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## forgetmenot

There is ALWAYS  a choice always YOU have to chose to go and get the help you need or to stay where you are
You keep saying "We",   who is we?   Is there voices in your head  telling you these things  if so they you need to get help to stop those voices


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## A Nonny Mouse

No voices telling us anything. We tried to 'get help'. The end result is us losing main care of kids and living in a shed. Asking for help did nothing but make things worse. Who are we supposed to seek help from ? Mental health team ? They know. GP ? He knows. Psychotherapist ? He knows ... They all know we want to die. They all know we technically od on acquired medication most days, they all know we are waiting for bacteria to infect our heart so we never wake ... Who else are we supposed to tell ? Who else is going to 'help' ...


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## forgetmenot

If no one is listening then go to hospital and tell them you are killing yourself and you need to be put in hospital to keep yourself safe  period

---------- Post Merged at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:47 PM ----------

i make a choice every day to not leave to not cause me any harm   and i like you want so badly for the pain and sadness to stop  but we can make a choice  we can  
and YOU can make the choice to stop ODing  to stop no taking care of yourself  only YOU can make that choice  no one else    
I know it is hard to stay ok i know  so if you  cannot stop harming yourself for the sake of your children then you need to go to the hospital and tell them what i have told you to say


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## A Nonny Mouse

Ppreciate the efforts ok, hospital not an option. If we 'harm' again and need intervantion, he will go for full custody and will lose everything and then will have nothing left to fight for. The moment we go into hospital or need crisis intervention is the moment we lose anything to fight for so no point. Besides, none of it is news ... They all know ...


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## Mari

If they all know and are not providing the help you need then you need to ask someone else. Do you have a GP/family doctor that you can talk with?


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## Jesse910

Nonny, you continue to mention that they "all know."  If I'm understanding you correctly, you do have a psychiatrist, therapist, and a GP who all know that you are suicidal.  Is this correct?  If this is correct, they are not taking you seriously.  You need assistance now.  You spoke about injecting bacteria into your heart.  This sounds dreadful.  I wish that I could understand more of what you are feeling.  And, I am truly sorry for your pain.  There has got to be another avenue.  Death is a final act that states that absolutely nothing could be done.  And, I do not believe that because too many of us are still here!  Parents do not quit on their kids.  They hang on.


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## forgetmenot

Also you said your husband takes care of your children and would never harm them  then what is the problem  you let him have custody until you are strong enough and mentally healthy enough to share custody with him again   With children taken care of YOU have time for YOU to get help    
You keep saying there will be no reason to fight if your husband has full custody  wrong  your children will always need you and will come to you when they are older for help and if you get the care you need now you will be well enough to help them and be there always for them  The way you are going now you will not be here to enjoy your children unless you get the care you know you need 

Get well so you can be there in the future  for your children   I know you understand this  so make a choice to get the treatment you need now


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## A Nonny Mouse

Correct we have psychatirst, who knows we have injected bacteria in the past ... Private therapist (who isn't able to advocate much), nhs therspist, and gp. We sat in the gp surgery a week or so before we last injected and said very clearly, we want to die. We took an od the night before and do not wish to live anymore.
The genuinely all know. Gp assessed various wounds, nurses dressed the resulting abcessess ... Full time custody would kill us, inside. Really would. Its fine. Just ... A bad day ...


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## rdw

Just trying to understand something - who is "we"?


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## Retired

We would like to help you, Nonny but I like RDW and others don't understand why you refer to your actions in the plural by referring to what you do by writing "we" instead of "I".

In order to help you the Forum needs to know precisely what it is you would like to accomplish, what you need to get your life in order and what services you need to regain control of your health and your family situation.

You have a problem to which there is a solution, but you need to decide what is your goal.  Once we know the goal, then we can suggest some strategies, and you need to be receptive to trying these strategies, and at the very least to consider them.

To date you have rejected any suggestion made to you.  Suicide is not the answer, nor is harming yourself.

You have the rsponsibility of your children who are counting on you for a decent quality of life.  Suicide won't give that to them.

Your children are your reason for living and for finding a way to regain control over your life.

What would you like us to do for you?


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## forgetmenot

> Full time custody would kill us, inside. Really would


.

Yet you are willing to take your life  to leave your children in such pain

 but you are not willing to give them custody to your husband until you are well , do you not see how contradicting this is

Yes it will be hard to hand full custody over to your husband  but you know the children will never leave you  you know that so you do not leave them

 Get yourself signed into hospital and get yourself stable enough to care for them ok

WE  who is we  you and your husband  you and a inner persona  who are you talking about  help us to understand ok


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## Harebells

I just wanted to add that of course it's beyond important to be around for your kids...but also for you too. Even if you didn't have the kids you are valuable and important and deserve to live and have a good life. I hope you can find the courage from somewhere to go to hospital and that they will keep you safe and give you proper help


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## Jesse910

Nonny,

I believe that Steve's earlier response today of 5:32 p.m. gives voice to all of our concerns for you.  How can we best help you get the help you need so that you can heal?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Apologies to everyone. This isn't the right place for us, hope you all stay strong and suppoirt each other. We appreciate the time you have spent, an d apologise we are unable to see things the same way. X


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## Harebells

Sorry to hear it, if you feel like it's not the right thing for you then I can understand if you go with that...but if you change your mind it would be great to hear how you're doing, would also be nice to get to know you more. Kind wishes, hope it gets better xx


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## A Nonny Mouse

We seem to be ... Getting it wrong here ... People think we are unwilling to help ourself, that we are throwing support back in their faces ... We really aren't.
We genuinely have issues with ... Understanding, learning, knowing, anything emotive, and ...
We is I, I is we. Don't know why, and only really happens when in an emotive state, hard to explain ... Sorry ...


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## forgetmenot

Thanks for explaining that to us hun  i do understand   I do hope you  get the help and support for YOU ok to stay safe  hugs


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## Harebells

I don't think you are unwilling to help yourself nonny mouse, I can see that you've already really tried to get help, and it must be exhausting that it hasn't helped...I think people here are just really concerned for you and wish we could find a way to give you some comfort and assistance.


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## MHealthJo

I just wanted to mention also Nonny, in case things appear differently on different browsers etc: Where Steve posted 'your local resources', it is a link. Not sure what comes up in that link, but just mentioning in case it might include any avenues you have not yet gone down.

So sorry that it is such a hard situation and I hope that in time with resources or conversations you can find here, it might be possible that one day you may find a change in strength and belief that an advocacy service could help you pursue health needs without losing your rights in regard to your children. Hugs


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## Retired

Nonny, please contact your local CAMHS unit for assistance.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Why Camhs ? We are with Cmht, (for what use it has, already have lodged offical complaint), I know you see us as ... Selfish or ... Please understand, we truely know the children will be better off without us (not saying we are intending anything, just context). There is a lot of 'back story', and unfortunatly there is a person around who poses a risk, and the children are the best way for them to 'hurt' us. If we do not exist, there is no-one to get back at and therefore no risk to children. Like I say, hard to explain fully.
We are under the 'care' of cmht, gp and private therapist. They all know of our situation, beliefs and activities. We are not at risk, neither are the children. We have applied previously for advocacy, wasn't eligible ...


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## Jesse910

Hi Nonny:

I always understood that there was a "back story."  We all have them.  For whatever reason, you are either unwilling or too scared to let your team know how you are really feeling.  And, there's someone who you fear a great deal.  And, the children are being used as leverage against you.  So, you've applied for assistance but are not eligible.  Can you say why that is?  Right now, your life is like a puzzle.  We're trying to help you find solutions, but because we are not physically there with you, it's difficult to know what may or may not work.  Can you help us with those pieces?  I'm also gathering from what you have stated that you've been detained or hospitalized in the past and that experience was not a good one or a safe one for you.

I want to remind you that we are a community who cares and we are not out to harm you.  I think you're stuck and need assistance in untangling yourself.  I also understand that the "we" is "you."


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## A Nonny Mouse

That was a beautifully worded reply ... Thank you ... 
Have not been an inpatient before ... They have assessed for sectioning twice in last six months ... Denied everything so wasn't forced in. Have an agreement with private therapist if he says things are bad we will willingly go .. But that's it .. That's the only judgement we half trust ... 
Ok, tangled is probably accurate ... And help in untangling would be awesome ... 
Don't know why the advocacy people said not eliable ... Think it because we still work part time and so therefore seen as fully functioning ... 
Have been honest with cmht, etc etc .. They know exactly what we do etc ... They just don't think its an issue ...


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## Jesse910

A Nonny Mouse said:


> That was a beautifully worded reply ... Thank you ...
> Have not been an inpatient before ... They have assessed for sectioning twice in last six months ... Denied everything so wasn't forced in. Have an agreement with private therapist if he says things are bad we will willingly go .. But that's it .. That's the only judgment we half trust ...
> Ok, tangled is probably accurate ... And help in untangling would be awesome ...
> Don't know why the advocacy people said not eliable ... Think it because we still work part time and so therefore seen as fully functioning ...
> Have been honest with cmht, etc etc .. They know exactly what we do etc ... They just don't think its an issue ...



It's okay and you are welcome.  I'm sorry but I do not know what sectioning means.  Perhaps, you can help me with this.  I like the agreement you have with your private therapist as I have a similar agreement with mine.  If I ever get to feeling too low, I have to call in and wait for a call back.  When the call back comes, I have to be share how I am feeling.  I admit that I'm more worried about leveling with my doctor because hospitals are not my thing.  However, he is the second tier in my safety net.  I've only undergone 72-hour holds and it was years ago.  I was checked on frequently and at times, pesky staff who would flip through my chart and talk about me when they thought I was asleep.  I was very guarded.  Yet, I came to realize that I was in the hospital because I made an error in judgment not because I was a bad person. 

I'm glad that you have a part-time job.  Are you afraid of losing your job?  That is a very real fear. This could help explain your statement that you would "lose everything" including your children.  And, I'm glad that you are being as honest as you can be with your crisis team.  Are they available to you 24/7?  Having those individuals near you is often helpful in creating a source of comfort.  It allows you to rest a bit.  I hope you are also eating and sleeping.

Take care.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Sectioning is being held in psychatirc hospital.... Crisi tema are less than useless ... Refused to come out once when we were in hopsital and had an op and hit a ptsd thing and was harming ... They refused to meet us at home. Support is only via private therapy ... One hour a week ... We are supported ... That's it.  Our job is new. Was made redundant from last job. That job was 'our surrogate home' so hit us hard and hence breakdown. Or the start. As for losing job, yup. 
Was told tonight he the kids dad doesn't believe a word we say ... That our going to mbt etc etc, means nothing as he doesn't know if its truthful ... Sigh
Sobbing ... This ist he nex ten years ... That or give him full custody and he moves the kids from their home and ... Sigh ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

Continually, thank for you taking baby steps in reaching out here.  If some of my questions come across as redundant, I don't mean to do so.  Have you called your therapist and discussed how you are feeling these days?  Secondly, were you prescribed any medication?  If so, can you share that with me?  If that's too much to share, can you tell me if you are taking it properly?  I can certainly understand the hurt and sense of loss in losing something that was dear and meaningful to you.  It does hurt.  I'm going to tell you something that might seem more than you can handle, but it is the truth.  Years ago when I was fired from my job, my entire world caved in immediately.  I was too embarrassed and scared to reach out to anyone.  I felt myself to be a complete and utter failure.  I lost my pride and my dignity.  I went home and made the ultimate decision.  When I came to, I was in a hospital bed and I remained there for several days.  After I went through some awful nurses, my support people reminded me that in spite of what I had gone through and was going through, I was still a person of intrinsic worth and value.  Thank you for explaining "sectioning" to me.  So, I get that you are afraid of the hospital and what can happen there.

I'm going to take a bold step here and tell you that like me years ago, I was of no help or use to anyone.  I could not deal with anything.  I made no sense.  However, I met with my shrink each and every week until I was able to connect several dots together.  And, no things did not work out okay for a long time.  I could not get a job.  I bombed every single job interview I went on for the longest time, until after 30 tries, someone took a chance on me.  What I'm trying to say Nonny is that no matter how bad you feel, you can heal with help.  

And, with regards to your children, you may lose them for a while, but not forever.  You are their mother!!!  The greatest gift that you can give to them is to fight to get well.  No matter what your ex-husband may say, wouldn't it be wonderful to prove him wrong on all fronts.  

I may have stepped on your toes here, but others have been where you are and worse and they have come back.  After my fiasco, I got back on my feet and was able to move forward with my life.  You owe yourself that same gift.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Thanks ...
If he has full time custody, it means the children moving to a new house, and genuinely would not regain them again full time. 
As for meds ... Started back on anti-d's 6 weeks ago and benzo's prn. Well known for aqcuiring other meds, mainly sleepers and pain meds ... But have used whatever we can find before. Everyone knows about it. Again not hidden from therpists, gp and psych. 
Everyone knows how we currently are ... Telling them again won't make an ounce of difference ... 
Hubby said last night he no longer believes a word we say ... And now this is it for the next ten years ... Shed life eh ..


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## Jesse910

Hi Nonny:

So, you resumed taking meds about 6 weeks ago and benzo is for anxiety?  However, you are mixing them up with other meds that are not prescribed.  I'm guessing that you're self-medicating with other drugs because the prescribed drugs are not enough to help you feel okay?  What support/care can your team offer to you at this time given that they know how you are doing?  And, when was the last time you saw your GP, Psych or therapist.  You stated that your therapist was the person you saw each week.

Secondly, your ex-husband is judging you on past and current interactions.  He's angry and bitter, among other things.  It's difficult to run a mile if your body is not in proper condition to do so.  Your situation is no different than someone who has heart disease or diabetes.  Until you get the illness under control, you are shadow boxing in the dark.  Once your life and your mind are stable, you will have the ability to fight your ex.

I'm still puzzled about how custody works in your area.  On this, again, I would think that a conversation with a legal services attorney would be your best bet.  You need information.  Nonny, nothing is impossible.
You are taking baby steps here and I'm proud of you!


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## A Nonny Mouse

No 'support' has been offered ... Why would they ?
We sat in our gp surgery 8 weeks ago and told him we don't want to live and had taken many meds the night before. He phoned the mental health team, who contacted us and basically said what do you want us to do about it ? Saw him two weeks later to start meds and have anti-biotics for the suicide attempt. Also see practice nurse to check and dress the wounds as they were really bad ... 
Saw psych start of jan, gp last week for med review (won't see now for months), group therapy weekly (we are struggling with that), private therapy weekly via phone and just finsihed 8 weeks with counscellor. Don't see anyone from mh team, they can't be arsed ... Last saw care co-ordinator before xmas when he phoned for the section (intake) team to assess us and social services to assess kids ...

As for the custody ... Its really hard to explain. But it is what it is and here's to it never ending ... Yay ...

Bad day today ...


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## forgetmenot

You saw a counselor that is good and you have private therapy and group therapy all positive steps to help YOU  

The group therapy will help you see you are not alone ok  you will have support of the members there as well 

A mental health team consist of many types of professionals that can help you such as the counselor you are seeing  and the therapist that runs the groups.

You  pdoc  you can contact him if you feel that you need more help  as well  in regards to  your medication  if you feel that it is not helping you perhaps you need an adjustment 

 I am sorry you are having a bad day today    I hope by coming here it helps some   

 just to be heard sometimes helps to alleviate some of the loneliness one feels


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## Jesse910

Dear Nonny:

I am slowly beginning to understand your situation.  You have been trying to get help but you continue to hit walls.  Eight weeks ago, you made an attempt on your life.  You were seen by a GP who was made aware of your intentions.   Because of your deep wound, was hospitalization mentioned at that time?  Was this your first attempt?  It baffles me that they would allow you to leave without putting some systems in place to secure continued care?

Question for you, do you live in a small town or an area where are larger medical facilities?  Second uestion that I asked earlier today, are you still self-medicating?

Thank-you for sharing parts of your story.


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## A Nonny Mouse

From UK. Cmht is ten mins down the road, as well as two inpatient hospitals within a ten min drive ... Plenty of facilities, useless system ...
Hospitalisation never mentioned, the exception being when we used a chairty crisis line, and they panicked and phone police etc which is what started this whole latest palava off ...
This would be our third single attempt in a year, but have overmedded freqquently to bring about liver failure ... Eventually ... 
Have tried three or four times in the past ...
Yes still self medding.
Although less than 6 weeks ago ... There is also a genuine medical issue (gynae) which we are seeing a consultant for. Mental health team refused to liase even though its all linked ... Seriously the system is useless, hence private therapist ... Thank you for your time ...


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## Jesse910

Hi Nonny:  It's been a busy day, but I wanted to get back to you.  First, you live in a large commnity with access to medical care.  What would happen if you were to walk into a hospital and say, "I feel like harming myself.  I'm not the person I want to be.  Can someone please help me?

Given that you've had encounters with your support team and they have been unwilling to help you, you need to take a different approach.  However, this would mean that you would have to take a chance - a huge chance.

You would need to stop self-medicating.  It would not be easy to give up so much of yourself.  However, you are in an incredible amount of pain and have been for a long time.  And, you should stand your ground until you are allowed to be evaluated by  others who are not a part of your current team.

Nonny, you have the right to be a whole person.  And, your children deserve a healthy Mom.  You need to find out how to conquer your demons.

If there is something that I'm missing, please feel free to correct me.


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## A Nonny Mouse

If we walk into a hospital, we would end up losing job and kids ... Inpatient isn't an option and realistically what could they do ?  Have leearnt we are worth nothing ... Mental health services prove that. Don't worry about it. Hopefully not for much longer ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

I am truly sorry that you are in  a crisis mode.  However, until you are willing to seek available treatment, your situation will continue.


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## A Nonny Mouse

So we need to lose everything to become better for nothing to be better for ?
Don't you see the dilemma ? If we have nothing, why survive ? A pathetic existence is better than an empty life ... At least at the moment there is fight, with it gone, we will just die anyways ...
Damned from the day we were born ...

---------- Post Merged at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:39 PM ----------

See how people change ... Fine just let her get on with it .. Same everywhere ... That's all they do and say ... So thanks for trying ...


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## rdw

No one is judging you but we all know that to get better YOU have to do the work - No one else. It is hard work that takes commitment, sacrifice and dedication to the healing process. We understand that you're in pain and can't see your way out but I'm going to ask you to quit judging all those you have given you advice for you do not know what we have each been through on our journeys.  For myself it was excruciatingly hard to make the choices I had to make but in the end it is worth it. I hope you find your way to healing.


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## forgetmenot

It is you hun that has to make a choice ok  really there is only one and that is to go in and get help  Like stated  you will always have your children they will be there and your job well get a leave of abscence or sick leave until you can get treatment started anyways    Your children are not going anywhere hun  you just need to decide to either stay in the same place you are at or do something to change it ok
Hell i am not one to talk ok  i do understand i do  i have been fighting along time now on my own trust issues i guess but to get well one has to reach out and trust ok the professionals to help you   YOU have to advocate for yourself and if cannot you get someone that will for you  
We care about you we do  as we all have been there  I do hope you find a way out hun a safe way out ok  so you can always be there for your children  and for YOU hugs


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## A Nonny Mouse

We apoloigise for being 'rude and insensitive'. Guess some people are just useless throughout eh ...


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## forgetmenot

No one has said you are useless hun no way   you are doing some positive steps to help you   I just wish you could do more for YOU ok  hugs


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## A Nonny Mouse

We get the impression, people think we don't want to try, don't want to engage ? We try, genuinely, we attend every appointment offered, take meds as prescribed, attend and fund private therapy as well as attending group as offered. We are not being dramatic when we say hospital is not an option. Firstly, they would not intake us as not unwell enough, (in their eyes we function so ...) And second, there are a lot of financial issues that means if we no longer fund the house the children and ex hubby live in, he will move them to somewhere else with him and his gf. We will then only be able to afford a single bed place and therefore will not be able to have the children back. Sorry, we are trying to explain ... We really are not trying to be rude or insensitive ... Just trying and failing to explain ... We shall leave this thread now, as have offended and upset some people and we really didn't wish for anything like that. We are one of the most unselfish people you would ever probably meet ... But nevermind. Thanks for trying and apologies ...


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## MHealthJo

Thanks for sticking around Nonny while we try to understand your circumstances.

Is there some part of the system there that you 'fit into'? Have you been denied certain options because of the substance misuse? Is there some segment of the health or social services system that you *do* fit into and that would keep you safe or offer you more of what you need or more safety or engagement?

In the meantime it's really great that you are going ahead with engaging with the options that you've got access to.

Are you *absolutely* *absolutely* sure Nonny that if you ended up away from your husband in a smaller place, that your legal system would totally disallow any custody to you? Have you discussed all if this thoroughly with a legal advisor?

The trouble with being stuck in one situation out of fear is.... well... it means you are stuck in one situation out of fear. 

I do really understand how it is a big fear and big roadblock against some sort of change, if a person truly believes that going forward with a drastic fulltime treatment option or some new option means losing their kids forever.

I just do not know if I absolutely believe that though. No matter what, you are their mother. xx

And if not much can change much in the near future, please still remember......

Don't underestimate the possibilities of change eventually happening over time, if you are able to 

a) hang on and stay around, 

b) stay in contact with services you do have and keep using them, 

c) find some sort of support and healthy information and self-help such as what you can find here,

d) create as much boundary and distance as your can between yourself and toxic/hurtful people or situations or interfering stuff, 

e) start experimenting with new things to do with your feelings, and 

f) basically just decide for now that you're here and you're choosing to live for now. 

That last one is certainly hard to do in some positions - it is hard to back away from an edge that has started to seem like a good thing or a good option.

But it is the step that can make new things possible...................  

 even if you do not believe that right now. 

But you are wrong........ 

you have been made to believe awful untrue things about yourself, and you are wrong...............       

xx


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## A Nonny Mouse

He would allow us access ... But there would be no way of providing accomodation for them and then as such will not have any custody rights as unable to provide suitable accomodation.
He has already said he doesn't believe a words we say and that now since he knows how bad things were a few weeks back that he will never trust us with the kids as it used to be. Hospital will just add to that for him. 
But yes, can say with 100% conviction, if we allow the children to move and we go into hospital we will not regain full time care of them again and not live with thjem again. He will be tied into a new tenancy agreement on a large property (based on having the kids) and therefore will be unable to not have them as will have an agreement he will not be able to afford without them. The time scales needed for us to sort out stuff for them when unemployed wouldn't happen. We would never be in a position to be able to regain a tenancy on. A three bed house ... Cannot lose them ... Just can't ...


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## MHealthJo

I see... In your legal system, is a small place with a sofabed or futon or some foam mattresses on the floor in the living room, is that not considered ok for a parent to have some weekend custody?


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## A Nonny Mouse

No it wouldn't given their ages etc... If they were the same gender, maybe ... But as its one of each and puberty .. No ...

---------- Post Merged at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:34 PM ----------

And besides, it would kill us, knowing his girlfriend would be spending more time with them than we do ... Becoming their mother. What point would our existence be then ...


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## MHealthJo

She can never become their mother. No matter how ill or how much time whoever has, you are still their mother and she is not. It doesn't matter what anyone says or how anyone thinks about it.

And if you go, you are not a mother anymore...

One could argue, if you keep doing what you can to be a little more healthy, and choosing to stay, you are much much more of a mother...

And could argue, doing that is important, it is part of being human, and one needs to pursue health and safety as best they can in order to pursue motherhood or claim motherhood. 

All have problems, things are so complex, and some things can't be totally perfectly solved and that's ok.

 But health and self-esteem, no matter WHAT,  it is a primary thing to pursue.

 You are not nothing if you are not  live-in mother or a wife.

 You are not nothing or worth less if you get rejected or treated badly or have been rejected or treated badly or if a partner moves on to a new person or if living arrangements change. 

It does not change your identity or value, and there is a possibility if you think about it correctly with therapy, that it could allow work on the self and a change of thinking. It depends. 
Sometimes a person needs to "lose everything" (in their view) to, for the first time, open their mind, build a healthy value system, self-compassion, a value of the self for its own sake and a healthy relationship with the self. Some have never ever done that and have only ever defined themself through outside things. 

The concept of ego in Eastern thought, popularised or made easy to understand via Eckhart Tolle, can be of great use.

---

As long as there was a room large enough for you to also sleep in with the two kids, Surely that would make the weekend arangement possible.....


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## A Nonny Mouse

We understand. No win no matter what. Good job we were not innocent in our downfall .. Makes the hell easier to sit with knowing its all your own doing ... Thanks for your time.


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

RDW is correct.  At one time or another, we have experienced the fear, anxiousness, physical and emotional pain that you find yourself.    We may have taken different avenues to get there.  However, when we hit rock bottom, and some of us had to bottom out, we each made a decision to get the help we needed.  You dear lady must do the same.  If you take your life, you will never see your children again and you'll never know joy and how to live a fulfilled life.

The ball  is in your court.  You can work through your issues through proper channels now so that you watch your children grow up. No one has all the answers.  Although we can take a step forward each day.


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## MHealthJo

Everyone makes big mistakes Nonny and everyone has problems and weaknesses and flaws and failures. Does not mean they deserve death or horrible suffering though, and so much of what can happen in life is, unfortunately, not deserved. The world's a wacky place.

Sometimes just a little little bit of self-compassion and self-forgiveness -  even if it's only a really little bit and starts very slowly
..... it can lead to new things that seem impossible........

Keep hanging here and you may be able to begin glimpses of those things.....

Thinking of you. Hugs   xx


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## forgetmenot

I do not think it was all your own doing at all hun  it takes two to have things go wrong in a relationship   Please  do not put all the blame on you ok


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## A Nonny Mouse

Was reffering to the abuse of our stepfather ...


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## forgetmenot

I am sorry hun but if your stepfather abused you   You were NOT at a fault ok    All the fault lies to him and him alone  hugs


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## A Nonny Mouse

We abused him. But he got punished for it. That's what makes us vile. We are not the innocent one. We are the predator.


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## rdw

If you committed an injustice against your stepfather then you must come clean about your actions. Healing only occurs when you are honest with yourself and others.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Yup we are honest ... We are vile ... That's why we are currently sitting in a shed, can hear all of them in the house laughing, and we are just waiting to go to work. Via the back gate, won't see kids till tomorrow wevening as she's in the house ... Sobbing ...


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## MHealthJo

Be careful though because sometimes you can start to believe lies someone has told you. Obviously I was not there and don't know what happened, but sometimes bad people can get someone to believe things that are not true in regards to abuse and things. So it's really important to make sure you keep talking about this stuff as much as you can with your therapist - I have seen cases where people have had a situation mixed around backwards in their mind, due to various factors.


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## A Nonny Mouse

What else is there to believe ... Mother thinks that, he said that, and we did. We could have saidno. We could have stopped everything by saying no. Or saying no better than we did. So confused. 
Don't know anything anymore
Broken ...


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## Retired

Nonny,

Please read http://forum.psychlinks.ca/abuse-do...incest-and-child-sexual-abuse.html#post230598 to see if it can help with any insights.


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## MHealthJo

Yes. The thing is if you are not a free adult, with your own secure income and a secure positive place of your own and your own network of supportive people with your best interests in mind, and everything like that, you are not in the same level of power as another adult. You are not in the same level of strength and free choice and options and things.

 (Also, some family environments lead to  adults or young people who have very little assertiveness and feel that they are not allowed to say no to others or say no to certain people.)

So unless you had the same level of power in that way, and you used some power you had to coerce, or you used physical strength to force, then you have not done this thing, and someone has told you lies  because they are sticking up for the wrong person.

That happens sometimes. Sometimes mothers stick up for a man or an abuser or a person who has taken an advantage or used a bad judgment, instead of supporting their child. Even to the point of casting undeserved blame on a child, lying, believing lies, etc. Because some mothers don't really have it in them to be mothers and they have sicknesses that make them hold onto some man/stick up for some man no matter what, instead of having their child's best interests at heart.

It sounds like you might have been made to believe some really wrong things by people who have something wrong with them.


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## A Nonny Mouse

So confused .... We were five ... But. If ... We could have said no. For all those years ... We never said no ...


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## MHealthJo

Goodness gracious Nonny, you have been told very very wrong things by a person who should have put you as absolute #1 priority, but for whatever reason that does not always happen. I am so so sorry. 

I hope you can take whatever little steps you can, to stop believing all kinds of things you've been told about yourself.

 I'm really really sorry and thinking of you.....


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## A Nonny Mouse

Why say sorry ? Was what it was ... We wanted it. After we were locked in our room as a toddler than mother left us to feed etc for ourself, we wanted it, we needed it. But not for 17 years, that's why its selfish. That's why we are the predator. We were 23 before we left. That's a choice and cannot be blamed on anyone else ... We were an adult. We encouraged, we ... Can't do this anymore ...


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## GDPR

Nonny,I was sexually abused for the first 17 years of my life.I have been in therapy for 4 years and am just now truly starting to realize it wasn't my fault.I also felt like it was my own fault and it was my choice when I was older,but my therapist keeps telling me it was what I was taught to do,what I was programmed to do.

I understand the self blame,completely,but no matter what,it wasn't our fault.


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## MHealthJo

Please try to understand somehow Nonny that the situation you just told me, put you in EXACTLY the kind of abnormal, needy situation that would make a child vulnerable to misuse. I'm pretty sure the man knew that rather well. That could even be what got him interested in your mother. These men know how to find children that will be vulnerable. Sometimes they  know signs to look for to find women who are likely to have a poor neglected child like you were. 

How sad that your mother could not understand these things. Perhaps if she was more interested in being a mother, and interested generally in the safety or welfare of a child at all and how you should or shouldnt treat a child, maybe your mother could have cottonned on to what that man was all about. But sadly no.

Please read as much as you possibly can about abuse, families where the family protects the abuser, etc. Please talk to your therapist as much as you possibly can about this until you no longer believe these horrible lies.


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## A Nonny Mouse

We have read ... We 'know', but we cannot 'feel'. This is ... We do not 'believe' or 'think' we are to blame, we KNOW we are. We don't 'think' we are worthless, we KNOW we are. There's no debate ... 
Therapist isn't going to solve this ... Too much day to day drama ... Two years already ... And no further forward ... Five years with previous ... No point ...


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## MHealthJo

I see......
I wonder how much sometimes, the trouble can be from being around the bad people telling the lies. Sometimes you have to get physically away from the bad types of people. Not easy sometimes but maybe one day, could figure it out....?

Or sometimes mental issues such as OCD traits and things can give you that "feeling" that's hard to shift. Keep pursuing treatment and recommendations, Nonny.

I hope we can help you gradually with whatever new avenues you may be willing to try going down. x


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## A Nonny Mouse

Our name is evie x thank you, sincerely for your time. Our main therapist tends to be from gestalt principles (as well as a lot of others) and in part this has been to 'blame' (wrong word we know) for the decline in the last year. We were stable two years ago. Entered therapy as unable to tolerate touch as well as general issues. A year in, and at the point of working deeper, we lost our job (which was our surrogate home) and a few moths later our stepfather came off licence and a month after that our husband of 12 years announces he wants to sleep with other women. So that just ... Rocked the boat so to speak. Then a poor experience with cmht and homelessness and losing the kids full time and just ... Keeps us down and unable to get back up atm. We were finally given permission to 'be' to 'feel' to 'experiement' and then we ended up with far too much to process to learn and deal with ... And guess that's where we are stuck ... Not knowing what's valid, what's not, what things are, if they are somatic, real ... Just pure confusion ... But lucky we have our therapist who is far more than we deserve ...


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## forgetmenot

YOU deserve care kindness patience  understanding  and so much more hun

  I am glad you have your therapist  and i hope that soon that therapist can help guide you back to more stability.

I see now now Evie how much of a fighter you are 

 You have been through so much in your life yet you are still here and doing what you can do to stay for your children 

In time with help of your therapist  you will see the fault only lies with one person the monster that abused you


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## MHealthJo

Nice to meet you Evie.

It has been a very big, very difficult, very painful, and very complex journey for you. 

I hope one day there is some pride you can have that you keep surviving and that you have tried to watch out for your children.

Hold on to the support of whoever you have some level of trust in, work with those sources as best you can, and always stay informed about things such as what pace you should travel at in therapy, what you should expect or look for in a therapist, things like that. There is lots of good information here about how to make sure that those things are as they should be. 

Let one of the moderators know if you ever feel like having a different forum name - or, if you would like to stick with the current one that is fine too. x


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## A Nonny Mouse

Thanks for your replies and time. X


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## A Nonny Mouse

And back we gobagain . Can hear her and him in the house laughing with kids proving our point we are s glorified baby sitter ... Easily replaced. Tonight we dont want to live ... Will do anything to make this better. Have ryined so many lives ... Only way to sort this mess is if we don't exist ... Sigh ...


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## Jesse910

Hi Nonny:

Perhaps it's time to take some of the advice you have already been given.  If you do not want someone else replacing you in your children's lives, then you need to go to the hospital and seek care.  

I'm not trying to be crude or cold.  It's just that several of us have offered you worthwhile advice and you just need to drop your guard and accept the fact that your situation will only change when you are willing to seek help.


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## GDPR

A Nonny Mouse said:


> And back we gobagain . Can hear her and him in the house laughing with kids proving our point we are s glorified baby sitter



I really wish you could change your living arrangements. It can't be helpful at all being within earshot and being able to hear everything that goes on.Is there any other place you can live?

You said you are living in a shed.Does it even have electricity or anything?


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## A Nonny Mouse

We have electrixity and our bed and wardorbe. 
We do ot need hospital amission, what do we need that for ? If it was needed then psych, gp, therapists would suggest it. No 'cure' for bpd etc so nothing intake will do x


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## GDPR

Is that where you want to live?It seems to me it would just make everything so much harder to deal with.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Know what, forget it. Our own pile of **** we created it, we wallow in it, we have no way of getting out of it so forget it. Save your time for those you judge helpable ... We give up. One day we won't be here anyone, no-one will notice, so enjoy your lifes x stay strong x


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## GDPR

We all have our own ****,and we all have a choice,we can try to change things,actually _do_ something instead of just wanting it to magically change,or we can wallow in it.

I'm sorry you would rather wallow in it.

And by the way,your distorted thinking may have you believing that no one would notice if you're not here,but I guarantee your kids would notice.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Yup the helpable, the wallower, the tainted vile whore we are, out of sight out of mind. Husbandand his gf in our bed just feet away shagging the brains out of eachother ... Yup this is the ****ing good life this. Nowhere to call home, part time kids, we are just a waste of space and a joke to all of humanity .. Like we say ... **** em all ...


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## GDPR

You can't control or change what your husband does,but you can change what you do.

That's why I asked about finding a different place to live.There's no way in hell I would be living in the shed,with the two of them inside the house.I think I would rather live under a bridge.

If it was me,I would do whatever I could do,whatever I needed to do in order to get myself together.I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of seeing me fall apart from it.I would pick myself up and carry on despite whatever my husband was doing.

You make it sound so hopeless and like you have no options what-so-ever,but you do have choices,you do have options.You just need to do something.And maybe the first thing you need to do is find somewhere else to live!

---------- Post Merged at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Where there's a will,there's a way,but first you have to have the will.Nobody here can do that for you.


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## A Nonny Mouse

If we find somewhere to live, he will have to fund house and has already said he will move them to another property. He will ten be tied into a tenancy contract for x months etc and we will not resume permentant care of them. Then we will die. Its this, or a coffin ...

---------- Post Merged at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:10 AM ----------

And nothing we can do to get outselves together. If we have crisis intervention, he will take kids ful time, so it really is ignore it and carry on. Stop beng selfish, suck it up and all the rest.


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## GDPR

I guess I don't really know what else to say,I am so confused by all of this.You say you have to live this way or in a coffin,yet you have also talked about killing yourself for living this way.You complained they were shagging just a few feet away,yet you are the one living a few feet away and also the one paying for the house they are shagging in.

Surely if you can afford to pay for a house you can afford to find a better place to live,something big enough for you and your children.You get a place and you work on getting yourself better,prove that you can provide for your kids,are stable and capable of taking care of them.You work toward that goal.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Ok, us that have it all wrong. Us that are not trying, us that's useless and selfish. Never mind. Justlike everything, stupid selfish and waste of space. No point moaning, just like a child, no-one listens, they just lock the door and walk away.


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## MHealthJo

I know you don't believe this yet Evie, and it will be hard for you to see that it's possible until something changes. But you really COULD build a decent life for yourself and your kids. It really can happen.... 

You need to get started off by working with your therapist to make changes to your self-image, and to disconnect your emotions from your husband and his choices. Holding onto something that's gone, and holding onto anger and the past connected with someone who has moved on, is very poisonous to you. 

Nothing can happen if you emotionally or mentally grip tightly to this aspect of the past, or keep engaged with his life now. 

Nothing can happen if you keep believing that your worth or identity are somehow tied up in this person, and if you keep your focus on that instead of the future. 

You can have a positive relationship with your kids, part custody, a worthy life of your own, and even a new relationship someday, if you let go of what's gone.

It's gone. He's gone. 

But don't let him make YOU be gone, or feel gone, just because of that.  You can go on seperate paths, and you need to.

That's where you need to direct your thoughts, in order to do what's positive for your kids.

You can do it, too. You don't think so now but you can. 

It won't be easy at all. But what you're doing now doesn't sound very easy or cope-able. 

Go down that path when you decide you're ready. There's really nothing for you where you currently are. 

Call the police on the person who is a risk to your kids. Or find a shelter/charity for women and children at risk, and let them know the situation and they will help you get yourselves safe and sorted out. They may work with you over quite a period of time to do that so don't panic. It seems overwhelming but talk with them and your therapist. You can escape this hell without ending your life or putting your kids at risk.

 Having dignity and teaching it to your kids, will keep them safe from the bad person, and is the ONLY way to keep them safe from other bad people in the future who are always there to prey on anyone who has not been taught and shown healthy things. They are going to have to learn healthy things somewhere. If the other side/rest of your family seems not conducive to that, it might have to be you to teach the healthy things. Any small new step you take, begins that process.

 xx


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## A Nonny Mouse

Today was not a good day ... We got into such a state this morning we took whatever meds we could find regardless of consequences ... Fell unconcious at some point and woke feeling much better ... 
Anyways ... Other half, ex whatever to call him had notcied before this we weren't right and he tackled us about it this evening.
We have said to him we want to start putting the wheels in motions to get him and her out the house as we can't tolerate it. He even said about looking at renting in the same village which surprised us ... Much less hate in his voice today ... But we've made a start ok ... Sorry for being useless ... We really are trying ...
Goal for week ... Get useless cmht to put crisis plan in place ... Wish us luck ...


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## MHealthJo

Excellent Evie. 

Keep in contact with your therapist, helplines,  information sources, to support and guide you on your way.

You are not useless and you might be surprised how different you can start feeling when you use CBT resources to counteract those mean things your mind says to you. Your mind can learn to put yourself down less and you will be surprised how much that will help you.  x

---------- Post Merged at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:08 AM ----------

Something to start thinking about too, (not easy yet where you are, not easy ever really, but still absolutely true) is,  you have worth and value and a right to be here, etc, no matter what... Humans have inherent worth, it does not depend on having a job, having a relationship, being successful, having an illness or problem, how anyone treats you, how anyone thinks or views you, or anything like that. It is irrelevant.

 We all have complex histories and all that stuff doesnt take away our worth.

These things are irrelevant. They are just part of the chaos of life. Things in life can go well, or can go wrong. We can get things right or get things wrong. And everybody gets plenty of things wrong in life.

It's all just irrelevant. We are all humans, imperfect and equal to each other, with inherent worth no matter what has gone wrong in our lives. Nothing changes that ever.     x


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## A Nonny Mouse

E don't have any support. Its being taken away because we are nt stable. So ... Whatever. Constantly tainted vile and worthless.


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## rdw

Which support has been taken away and by whom? No one here believes you are tainted, vile or worthless - those are your thoughts and it is flawed thinking .


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## A Nonny Mouse

Lost nhs counscellor last week, told today we are being taken out of group as not stable enough. Leaves private therapy if and when we can afford it


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## rdw

If I recall correctly the group therapy wasn't working well for you. When do you see your private therapist next?

---------- Post Merged at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:55 PM ----------

What happened with the nhs therapist?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Only allocated 8 sessions ...


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## Mari

I could not continue in group either which did not make me feel very good about myself and I am still struggling with that. You can quite possibly apply for another 8 sessions - they might turn you down but with the support of your GP they might allow you - it could be worth trying.


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## Jesse910

Nonny (Evie) you have plenty of support.  Unfortunately, for reasons you have mentioned, you are unable to grasp how important our suggestions have been for you.  And, I agree with RDW, the only person who is working against you is yourself.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Oh sorry ... Sorry for not being able to 'cope' on one hour a week support. That is THE only person we actually speak to from one day to the next ... There is no-one we chit chat with, no-one to message if we are having a glum moment, nothing. A sigle hour of human interaction a week ... Sorry for being usless enough and selfish and needy ... 
Really don't understand where you think we do try from ? 
I am so sorry I can't keep doing this, hated and despised in the house we live in, no contact from mental health services for months, yes we had 8 weeks with nhs counscellor, to support our attendance at group. We clam up, physically can't speak. We are now being removed from group as too unstable, yet you have the opinion, we are well supported and our fault for not working and trying hard enough ... Ok genuinely am sorry ... And genuine thanks for replies and suggestions ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny (Evie), let me clarify "support" because it appears that we have two different understandings.  From your recent message, I believe it is human contact you are seeking.  And, the support I am referring to is on this website.  You are correct.  Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to physically be with you.  And, that's rough and I know it.  There are times when I wish the entire community could visibly cheer me on when I'm down.  However, I take the support that I receive and I work with it.  Each message of support and care is a gift that can assist you in figuring out the best way to handle your situation.  You definitely need some one-on-one therapy and 8 weeks is not long enough.  I can also understand clamming up in a group.  I'm not good with groups either and I avoid them.  Are you being removed from the group because you are unable to verbally communicate or because someone thinks your needs are greater than the group can support?  

For all the reasons that you are avoiding the obvious available support physically near you, is the very reason why you could benefit from in-patient care.  And, before you say "no," please understand that we are here for you on this website.  The testament to that fact is that we have continued to try and assist you with suggestions.  However, we are not physically present with you.  Thus, we cannot determine how badly you are hurting and offer you proper treatment.  I sincerely understand your refusal to obtain care as you think that you will lose your children.  However without care, you may continue to spiral downward and there's no need for that. Years ago, I heard a speaker say, "*we can debate the issues all day long, but the bottom-line is that when help is available, do we take it*?  You are in a self-made prison without a You can obtain help!  You will still have our support and compassion, but you need to make the first step towards wellness.  The bond between Mothers and their children is very strong.  And, it will stand firm unless something harms that bond.  If you do not get help, those bonds could be irreparably harmed.  Nonny, you have more to gain.  Give yourself permission to try.  I know you're afraid and that first step is hard, but you deserve to be whole.


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## A Nonny Mouse

We are being refused group because we don't talk and because we are not stable in 'home life' apparently ... Doesn't matter ... Nothing has changed except more responsibility and more stress .. But that's ok, own fault we don't want help so ...


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## Jesse910

I'm sorry that you have been unable to find solutions to your situations. If you could allow yourself to receive care, your life might have a chance.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Why is it assumed we have refused care ? We have been to mental health team this week .. Begged for help ... Got nothing ... What else are we supposed to do ? We've asked ... Repeatedly ... As far as they are concerned ... Not their problem. Do you not realised the stae of mental heath care in the uk ?


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## rdw

Group therapy is about talking and sharing with the members. What did the mental health team say? Did they offer you any solutions or alternative options?


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## A Nonny Mouse

We tried to be a part of the group we really did, but would take so long to build up enough composure to speak, someone else would beoff on a tangent or the topic would be closed and moved on. Last session we attended was in short a barrage from another member on how selfish we were five mins before end of session and we left in floods of tears as time had ended and session closed ... No nothing else has been offered.  Even though we went down last week and said we needed support ... They are setting up a meeting in three weeks to set a date and sort out another meeting to do with the kids ... They know we live in a shed, our housing status on our mental health profile states rough sleeper so they know as they changed it ... But still nothing changes ...

---------- Post Merged at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:02 AM ----------

Thank you x


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## Harebells

Sorry that happened in your group therapy, it sounds awful.I find it so hard to physically speak in group situations too, I understand. So horrible that the other member attacked you at the end and you were just left with that, doesn't sound very therapeutic!! how are you now? hope the meeting goes well (((hugs)))


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## A Nonny Mouse

Meeting was supposed to be last week, no-one bothered to sort it so never had it. Guess it just proves what a waste of space we are. 

_{deleted triggering passage}_


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## Jesse910

Nonny:  I wish there was a way for you to receive tangible assistance that would assist you towards healing.  While I have never had group therapy, I can only imagine your frustration.  I don't know whether you've already asked whether or not it is possible to receive an individual appointment.  What about other sources for counseling?


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## A Nonny Mouse

The system in the uk is any counscelling is currently only 8 weeks of sessions allowed ... Which really doesn't make much progress when you have to wait 4 months each time for a block of 8 ... Of course there's private, but cost is a factor as well as finding someone 'suitable' ... Its all just ... If we had a magic wand, we would like the diagnosis all sorted properly so that at least the medications would be useful, and not be shoehorned into a single diagnosis therapy which works against other diagnosis ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny:  This definitely makes finding/bonding with a therapist very tough.  Our system in the U.S. has its peaks and valleys in terms of patient care.  However, even with a wait time, cost constraints, and finding the right person, help is available.  Question:  Do you have a personal physician who might be able to recommend someone to you for a nonimal fee?


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## A Nonny Mouse

No, its just all a waste of resources .... Well we finally managed to push it so far we eneded up physically ill and admitted to hospital blah blah blah and guess what, mental health teams still don't want to know, guess you have to acually die to get anywhere ....


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## Jesse910

Hi Nonny:

I know the hospital is not where you want to be.  However, while you indicate that the mental health team does not know you are there, perhaps someone will finally listen to your situation.  When I am stretched as far as I can go, I have to believe that help is nearby.  I wish that for you now and always.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Was in for 8 days and 3 operations to sort the damage we did, mental health don't want to know. We requested them several times and even phoned ourselves. Nothing more we can do but accept we are just not worth it.


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## Jesse910

There is more going on here.


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## A Nonny Mouse

More going on ? Sorry not following what you mean ? Do you think we are lying ? Have an agenda ? Nope ... Just a place to vent, let out thoughts etc ... Apologies if you think bad of us for some reason, not the intension.


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

I do not think that you are lying.  My observational comment is in reference to the people who were caring for you in the hospital.  I'm puzzled why they were not listening to you.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Thank you for claifying x part of our group work is to ask rather than assume what someone means ... But yes ... Psychatrist, gp, etc etc all know what we do, but still we never have any contact with anyone or support ... Except group therapy in which we find too much and sit in silence for an hour and a half ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

I recall your inability to speak up in group.  I'm wondering what would happen if you allowed yourself the freedom to say a bit about yourself.  Sometimes doors open when we take a risk.


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## A Nonny Mouse

We've been made to speak a few times where our rudeness has been challenged or we've been pulled into something, usually its too intense whatever the emotion is and we just end up shaking and crying .... And then have to run out to survive ...


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## Jesse910

Nonny:

I get the weirdness of feeling vulnerable.  I do not know anyone who takes comfort in that experience.  Yet, in those rare moments when I have allowed myself to be known, while I have literally thought that I was falling apart, I have been met with understanding, comfort, and relief.  Healing is not easy.  It breaks us apart and leaves us feeling exposed to the core.  The end result is that we gain a piece of ourselves in the process.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Still around, still playing the 'long game'. Interesting to read the old posts ... Not much change ... More surgeries and hospital admissions and drips and anti b's for trying to die ... Currently in the same state ... Its even all writtem in our mental health care plan that we do this and everything, phoned cpn last week for urgent help under our crisis plan, had to wait 8 days for appointment and had 7 mins to be told nothing they will do, might see you in a month or so ... 


This constant ... People are not believing that this is not us not engaging services but are the srrvice that's so poor and yet we are blamed thereby retraumatising and pushing us lower and furhter into harm.


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## Jesse910

Key phrase here:  "Still around, playing the long game."   When you're ready to work on living, let us know.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Wow welcoming, that's for re triggering ...


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## Banned

What exactly are you looking for?  People who are serious about mental health aren't interested in playing games.  You keep reaching out for "help" but do nothing to help yourself.  It has to start with you.


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## A Nonny Mouse

Again .. Wow .. You think we enjoy this ? Any idea what it took to reach out and actually post ?? Think we enjoy this ?? As for helping yourself ... What more do we need to do ? Just said, we told cpn, got 7 mins, told nothoing they can do will be back in a month maybe, saw gp the week before .. So please .. Any other ideas are welcome ... But please stop assuming we are not trying here ...


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## David Baxter PhD

We?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Banned

What kind of help are you looking for? What has your GP said?  What kind of help have you received in the 
Past?  Who is we?


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## forgetmenot

Again who is WE    and how can we help you we are not understanding fully your situation   You doctors and health team are the ones that fully understand where you are at.   There are suggestions given to you have you read them  are you interested in what we are trying to say to you   I don't know what else we can say or do to help you


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## Jesse910

Nonny, I did not mean to sound cruel at all.  I meant my words as a wake up  call.  Help is available here.  Suggestions and questions have been asked of you before and now.  Is it possible to answer the question of "who is we?"  Others have asked you questions as well.  Can you offer any constructive information that would offer insight into your current situation?  Nearly everyone who utilizes this site comes with issues seeking understanding, information, compassion, and  acceptance.  However, in order to move along within our lives, we have to give ourselves permission to move ahead.


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## A Nonny Mouse

We is just that ... The self as plural. Sorry.


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## forgetmenot

So we is I then  I  and you feel there is another persona  you are dealing with inside you  just trying to understand


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## A Nonny Mouse

Not diagnosed anything other than borderline and refer to self as we most of the time, there are personality traits but no defined personalities. We get bullied for it so becomes an issue trying to explain.


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## Mari

> Can you offer any constructive information that would offer insight into your current situation?



Nonny, I think that is a very good question from Jesse and it could be helpful if you would try to respond.


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## A Nonny Mouse

What kind of information ? Our history is long and boring and would send you all to sleep ... Happy to answer questions, but unable to just 'verbalise' (or written equvilent) ... Its just not in us ... Too broken.


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## Mari

Whatever information you would like to share. Boring does not matter as I have insomnia so even better if it sends me to sleep


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## Jesse910

Nonny, thank you for clarifying yourself.  What has changed within your life these past few months?  What are you seeking assistance with at this time?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Thanks for replies. Wasn't seeking assistance with anything specific ... We are very isolated, only people we see are at work (all over 80), or the children (under 11). Have no adults we speak to, see, text etc. And ... We just 'needed' to exist somewhere ... Sorry.


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## Jesse910

No need for an apology.  Isolation not always a good thing.  If I recall correctly, you are in an isolated location.  You mention working, so outside of work, do you have ways to occupy your time?


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## A Nonny Mouse

Only looking after the children.


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