# Is it possible to have "personal integrity" when you're mentally ill?



## amastie (Jan 11, 2010)

I use the title of this thread to ask the question because I welcome others offering their own opinions.

I have a view on the subject but am certainly open to being shown where my thinking is faulty.

I once dared to say to a family friend that it takes a lot of strength to live with mental illness.  He smiled in a way to dismiss such a suggestion but not unkindly so.

Was it not Bette Davis who said something like "Old age is not for wusses".

I feel the same for people who live daily with mental illness.  It takes constant struggle and often carrying that struggle in a way that hampers relating to others in as little a way as possible - so there is necessarily a balancing act that one must maintain between the inner and the outer functioning (or at least the appearance of it).

It takes courage to know that others, often for totally understandable reasons, cannot deal with discussing or knowing what we experience - because they don't have the strength in themselves to do that.

It takes courage and integrity not to turn against ourselves when every part of our being would have us do precisely that.  It is the integrity to remember something which is able to contain and and thereby (occasionally at least) reduce the thoughts that assail us.  For me, it is a world view that says that no-one is lesser than anyone else, and judging is never a valid position to hold.  Certainly, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't react to defend ourselves against abuse or mistreatment.  It just means that overriding all our collective behaviour, we are all, in the end, equally human.  Believing that doesnt' always sustain me, but when I am able to return to it, I find that I come home and I feel that in returning there, I find my integrity.

I just wondered if others had considered these things.

Thanks,

amastie


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 11, 2010)

> others, often for totally understandable reasons, cannot deal with discussing or knowing what we experience - because they don't have the strength in themselves to do that.



More often, it's not about lacking strength - it's about lacking information. They don't know enough about what might help and what probably wouldn't, or enough about what you want or need and what you would reject.


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## Andy (Jan 11, 2010)

I am going to attempt to answer this and make sense. My brain is rather foggy today so bare with me.:goodjob:

I think that a person with mental illness can totally have personal integrity.  The problem, in my opinion is that you can have integrity when you leave the house but with having to do that "balancing act" and things like stigma, I think every time you come home your leaving a lot of that behind. Not all at once of course but day after day. 
The key to keeping that integrity is having the supports that won't let you become unbalanced. 

lol Oh boy. Did I just basically say what you said? Ugh sorry if I did, and if I did then I totally agree with you. lol


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## amastie (Jan 14, 2010)

STP said:


> I am going to attempt to answer this and make sense. My brain is rather foggy today so bare with me.:goodjob:
> 
> ....The key to keeping that integrity is having the supports that won't let you become unbalanced. ..


Perhaps so.



STP said:


> I am going to attempt to answer this and make sense. My brain is rather foggy today so bare with me.:goodjob:
> 
> ..
> 
> lol Oh boy. Did I just basically say what you said? Ugh sorry if I did, and if I did then I totally agree with you. lol



I don't know.  I'm not all that together at present either 

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------




David Baxter said:


> More often, it's not about lacking strength - it's about lacking information. They don't know enough about what might help and what probably wouldn't, or enough about what you want or need and what you would reject.



I'm thinking particulary of my family - and I *know* that they have strength, but I also know that they don't want to understand, or at least don't want to be burdoned further by trying to understand what seems to be unfathomable.  My sister has a friend whose own sister had schizoprenia, who sat submissively very quiet in a corner of a supported accommodation taking her daily pills and never gave her family more than a general concern for her well-being.  Whereas I am in the face *so* much - neither quiet nor still; not even particularly compliant (though I make an effort to be).  Simply quiet would be a huge relief for them.  It's been hard for them and they concede that they are "not good with mental illness".  They trust that I am  however highly resourceful in finding supports elsewhere.  Meanwhile, they mean well by me, and will physically be available if I need that.

To say that our relating is free of pain is not true and that is not entirely of my making.  They have their own frailties, some of which impact harshly on me - but I think no less that mine do on them.

Thank you for your reply.


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## forgetmenot (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi Amastie it is very hard for some to accept mental illness as it is. The may say they understand but unless truly affected by it they really truly don't understand.
I try so hard to get people to see the affects of mental illness on my twin my brother and daughter but the people even the ones that say they are educated in it seem to judge not understand.
It is so hard because on one hand you want to so badly to support them but being on the supporting side also can affect one mental health. I try so hard to help and when you see the help fail time and time again a shield starts to come up because it hurts too much to see one family member suffer so the unaffected family member slowly backs away.

My husband tries he really does but sometimes he just doesn't get it and is too critical

Knowlege is everything yes but i think unless you have been affected yourself by mental illness one can empathize but not truly totally get what is happening.  

I don't know if i am making sense i just want to say sometimes the person giving support is at a loss of what to do.


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## amastie (Jan 15, 2010)

Violet said:


> ..it is very hard for some to accept mental illness as it is. The may say they understand but unless truly affected by it they really truly don't understand...


Yes.  I think that may be true of many things.  My niece has just had a baby.  I miss having my own children, but when I try to imagine getting too little sleep days and even months at at time - and with the care of a newborn - I cannot imagine being able to cope.  As it is, getting too little rest is one of the things which has the biggest impact on my mental/emotional wellbeing.  When I think of adding to that the responsibility of caring for a baby, it boggles my imagination.  Yet, millions of mothers do it all of the time.  My niece is fortunate that she has a supportive husband.  Not everone does.  Even so, she is breast feeding and cannot possibly get the 8 hours or more that I must have to stay emotionally on keel.



Violet said:


> ..It is so hard because on one hand you want to so badly to support them but being on the supporting side also can affect one mental health.


Yes, sadly, that is true.



Violet said:


> ..I try so hard to help and when you see the help fail time and time again a shield starts to come up because it hurts too much to see one family member suffer so the unaffected family member slowly backs away...


I see it, and it's heart wrenching - both seeing the hurt in the other, and also experiencing the other backing away.  Even when I fully understand why, it hurts but I would probably do the same.  We all have our own emotional limitations.



Violet said:


> ..I try so hard to help..


I don't know if this wil make any difference for you Violet, but anyone who is able to truly reflect on the circumstances will *not* judge you.  It is only their pain which would keep you struggling against your own best interest.  If you don't take care of yourself as a whole human bening, then you're really not doing the right thing by them or by yourself - because you become less of a person in the process.  It gives the message, perhaps not to them, but to yourself, that you are not as worthy of support and wholeness and, Violet, you ***ARE***!  I hope and pray that, if you don't know that right now, that you come to know it - that you receive the correct support, and therapy if it is needed, to know it.



Violet said:


> My husband tries he really does but sometimes he just doesn't get it and is too critical..


I've come lately to believe that being critical in such circumstances can itself be a defence, not just a personal attack.
I wonder if your husband feels that he is supported?  (Just wondering..)



Violet said:


> ..Knowlege is everything yes but i think unless you have been affected yourself by mental illness one can empathize but not truly totally get what is happening...


I've lived my life, and survived, mainly by trying always to stay ahead of my problems by understanding them, but honestly I don't know if I am better off for that.  Yes, it helps, and is often necessary to go on, but compassion - being ready to receive others into your life in a way that doesn't judge yourself or the other - seems to me a more substantial basis for relating than understanding the whys and wherefores.  Right now, I think perhaps that not judging is the hardest thing, not the experience of mental illness.



Violet said:


> ..I don't know if i am making sense i just want to say sometimes the person giving support is at a loss of what to do.


*God, you make sense!*


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## forgetmenot (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks Amastie for saying i make sense and for your response.   Unfortunately people do judge you the looks the comments god it hurts so much if they only knew how hard it was i think they would judge less. We beat ourselves up so much that when something negative external is thrown our way it knocks our self esteem crashing.  

My husband i know he needs more support and i am trying to talk to him more get his thoughts his input you know work together more on this.

You hit it right on when you said"  because you become less of a person in the process.  It is like somehow you just stop mattering you just are not there  NOt that i do matter really because the one with the mental illness is suffering 10 fold and need thats support but sometimes it just feels like i have disappeared  stupid uh  enough of that

Logic to me is my savior to understanding what is happening staying ahead of the game.
"It is what it is"  deal with it somehow that was drummed into me there are solutions just need to find them right and not let emotions get into play.  

I hope you too find peace Amastie you are so intelligent compassionate you do have so much to give  take care


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## amastie (Jan 15, 2010)

:support:  :hug: :support:
My heart, my thoughts are with you.


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