# Why?



## AmZ (Jun 7, 2012)

I won't go in to detail for obvious reasons and I'm trying to tread as carefully as I can. 

I have scarring on the top left of my arm and I always have sleeves down below my elbows so nobody sees the scars.  I however am craving to self-harm more in the same area and it's driving me crazy. Like I want to self-harm all on my upper arms and be left with scars. Who would even wish this upon themselves and why? I'm trying to understand it. Thx


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## gooblax (Jun 7, 2012)

I think the reasons are often different from person to person.
A couple that come to my mind is validation of emotions (eg. "I can see and feel this, it was done because I was feeling ____, therefore the feeling was real, serious, and warrants attention/care/understanding."), an attempt to prove 'strength', or to try and reduce guilt. Scarring can be seen and often felt by running fingers over the area, and that could be used as a sort of reassurance technique.

Whatever the reasons, though, there are certainly more healthy ways of dealing with them.


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## AmZ (Jun 9, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I can relate to what you said. 

I'm trying to work on this, I really am. But finding these self-harm urges quite strong. I'm thinking in my mind that it doesn't matter if I harm myself. That if it helps then it helps. Nobody needs to know. But I know that that is a bad route to go down. 

I'm kind of not feeling bad about it and the thought of doing it. I usually am. 

I feel like its part of me. 

Thoughts of me going in to a coma and dying are also feeling somewhat peaceful in me.  It's hard to explain.


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

I self-harmed last night but I'm ok.  

Didn't need to go to the hospital or anything. 

I'm scared that I will Get thrown out of the program. I think that I maybe need to just move to the hospital and tell them there.

- - - Updated - - -

I met with my psychologist just now. Didn't tell him about the self-harming. If I would tell him, then he'd tell the manager and I'd get thrown out of the program. I signed on Friday that I won't do anything to myself over the weekend. And I signed a contract when I first came which said about the no self-harm policy.

I spoke with the psychologist about scary and unpleasant events that happened both in the open ward and the closed ward of the hospital and that I am scared to go. The conversation finished there and I'm still in the rehabilitation program. 

It doesn't look like I'm going to make the move and say that I need to go and my psychologist isn't either. 

Even though I was having bad dreams and bad thoughts all night, I still went to work and we are hoping that things will be better this week. 

I don't know what's going to happen.

Very difficult situation.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

It's really not a difficult situation, AmZ. You are making it difficult.

The decision is simple: If you like where your life is now and you like feeling the way you've been feeling, stay put. If not, tell the staff you want to go back to the hospital and start working as hard as you can on changing how you react to things in life and how you cope with your fears and anxieties. The choice is between that status quo (stagnation) or change (growth, moving forward).


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

Yeah. I see where you are coming from. 

I agree.

I know it's the dumbest thing but I think I'm going to do something before I go back in to hospital. 

I don't know. I can't tell them about the self-harming otherwise I'll be thrown out completely of the program. 

The only thing that's on my mind is about all of those sleeping pills in the cupboard.

I'm going now to a big group meeting with the manager of the program. I really don't know what to do. Even though, the answer is to go to the hospital. 

It's like I want someone to tell me to go rather than making the move off my own back. 

I'm really confused. One minute OK and then a couple of minutes of bad thoughts, then I'm OK again maybe for a few hours. Just down in the dumps. 

Hmm.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

I think that's exactly the issue: You want someone to tell you what to do. And your mental health workers are trying to help you take responsibility for your decisions. If you make the decision, how that works out for you and where that decision takes you is your own responsibility.

Go back to the hospital before you do something really dumb that you'll regret. 

Stop withholding information. "I'll be thrown out of the program if I disclose"? No, you'll be sent back to hospital, where you need to be right now in any case. It's beginning to look like your self-destructive behavior is in fact a way for you to make that happen. 

So stop this dangerous game. Tell them what has been going on and tell them you need to be in the hospital. Do it today.


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## forgetmenot (Jun 17, 2012)

Hi AmZ  go to hospital hun ok  YOU take charge now you make the decisions to get you in a place of healing   When you make the decisions it makes you in charge of your life hun you have control ok   Do what is going to help you hun not harm you  Do what Doctor Baxter has said to do  get into hospital and no more causing you harm  hugs


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks Dr Baxter. I appreciate your time and effort in trying to get me to do the right thing.

I hear what you're saying. 

I think it's just (I use the word 'just' lightly) the self-harming which I would carry on and not tell them about. I know that's no good either. 

I don't see what is helping me (medications still) or who is helping me (all staff members). The psychologist has literally nothing to say to me and I feel unworkable. 

I'm beating myself up about it and blaming myself - I think I must be an idiot. 

That's the truth.

2 years of feeling like an idiot... you even know that the first therapist I was with (the Canadian one) for 8 months before my hospitalisation? A week before we decided that I should be hospitalised, she told me that she doesn't think she can help me and can recommend other therapists for me. I spent $19,200 USD on therapy with her and all that was happening was that I was feeling worse until I went in to hospital. 

Then a year of being with the therapist in the hospital. Still no progress. Still the same rhetoric. 

Now 2 months with this psychologist at the rehab program - He's very quiet, doesn't challenge my thoughts, doesn't really respond to me, just nods. I get so frustrated in therapy with him and just walk out feeling worse.

I'm sorry - Like I'm going around bitching about everyone - I am not doubting their experience and skills, I blame myself for it, not them.

I'm so stubborn that I can't see my future. Oh boy, I won't go in to all of it again. 

I think I won't go to the work in the morning and instead I'll walk to the manager's office and tell her about the self-harming and that I am going to hospital. She's going to go crazy about the self-harming so I hate to say it, but I am tempted to not tell her. Just go to the hospital and be where I need to be.


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## Banned (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh AmZ.  I see so much of my life 3-4 years ago in you now.  I know what it's like to be that resistant to everything and everyone, so I don't really have any advice for you but to tell you that if and when you decide to do the work, your life will be beyond anything you can imagine.n I'm at a year and a half of no depression, self injury, thoughts of suicide, self-sabotaging behaviour and it's an amazing life.

You have the help and resources available, but as has been said numerous times you need to work with them instead of against them and change won't happen overnight.  It's like a jigsaw puzzle - one piece at a time and eventually it all comes together in time.

Good luck.


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## grapefruit968 (Jun 17, 2012)

I understand how being incarcerated is not desirable to you based on your past experiences; however, I am agreeable with the suggestions above - in that before you negotiate your situation further, hospitalization is the choice you need to make now, no ifs ands or buts. 

Good luck to you.


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

Thank you for your replies - I really appreciate them greatly.

I just met with one of the care workers and chickened out. I was going to tell her about the self-harming but it's already 8pm and I don't want to go now to the emergency room of the hospital I was at which is an hour away. By the time I did everything the first time around I was taken in to my room at midnight and had to creep around and it wasn't comfortable. 

The care worker was talking about how I have been succeeding the last couple of weeks with all the thoughts of hurting myself and stuff and not doing anything. Woopsy.

I don't know what I'm doing. Just crawling in to bed and deciding what I'm doing tomorrow morning. I'm really in a pickle. I really don't think I'll do anything that is a risk to my life. Then I think that I don't need to go to the hospital. 

Ugh, it make me shivers just at the thought of walking back in there with my suitcase. Going to the emergency room and being asked maths questions (100 minus 7, minus 7, minus 7 - count, etc) and common sense questions.

I said I'd never go back there and I can't face all of the nurses again like I've failed, it's embarrassing.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

Don't you see what's happening, AmZ? You are keeping things from the staff there, leading them to believe you're doing much better than you really are. How do you expect people to help you if you aren't honest with them? How do you expect your situation to improve - or indeed to do anything except get worse - if you don't tell them what's really going on?

They can't read your mind.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

And no matter how many rationalizations you come up with for NOT telling them or NOT going to the hospital, they are all just excuses in the end.


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

Yeah, I know you're right. 

I'm just terrified about getting thrown out of the program. I know it's my own fault.

---------- Post Merged on June 18th, 2012 at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 17th, 2012 at 08:56 PM ----------

This decision is keeping me awake. It's just before 1am. 

So much going around in my head.

---------- Post Merged on June 18th, 2012 at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 17th, 2012 at 08:56 PM ----------

2am. 

Weird and unpleasant dreams ..

Anyway, pretty sure you've had enough from me. I've had enough of myself. 

Blah blah.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

Going back to the hospital is not "getting thrown out of the program". It is a step back to regroup, not a failure.


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't think that going back to the hospital is getting thrown out of the program - I'm worried that she'll throw me out anyway because I've broken the rules 3 times now. 

1am, 2am, 3am, 4am wake-up. Now 4.20am. 

Weird dreams again. Woke up crying just now. My pillow wet. 

I just wonder if I have the strength in me to fight this without going back to the hospital. 

They agreed that I can have 1 day off of work a week to do what I like. So it's really good, I'll just be working Sunday and Monday, then Wednesday and Thursday. 

Maybe I'll get up and go to work in the morning and see what happens. But I'm tired, that's the only thing. 

I'm may be fooling myself, I don't know. 

I've been reasonably ok the last few days, darn, asides from SI on Saturday night. 

Sorry I must be so frustrating.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

AmZ said:


> I don't think that going back to the hospital is getting thrown out of the program - I'm worried that she'll throw me out anyway because I've broken the rules 3 times now.



I doubt this, if you tell her at the same time you need to return to hospital.



AmZ said:


> I just wonder if I have the strength in me to fight this without going back to the hospital.



I think recent events have suggested that the answer to that question is no.



AmZ said:


> I'm may be fooling myself, I don't know.
> 
> I've been reasonably ok the last few days, darn, asides from SI on Saturday night.



You are fooling yourself and you really haven't been okay, not even reasonably okay, at all lately. Maybe one day out of 7 is a good day... even that may be an overestimate.


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## AmZ (Jun 17, 2012)

Gotcha. You're right, thanks. 

Yikes, I'm nervous.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 17, 2012)

Making changes can be scary. Use that nervousness as a sign that you're probably on the right track. When your life is going well, safety is continuing to do the same familiar things, even though it's crustal clearn that they are not working for you.


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## AmZ (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks Dr Baxter. 

I don't know. I don't mean to be so frustrating. I think I won't go to work but will stay in bed as I've only slept an hour here and there. 

Then I'm fooling myself again that I'll be ok and just see how the day goes. I don't know. It's very confusing.  I feel ok. I know I've had bad days but I still don't know if it warrants going back to that hospital. 

Sorry for being so stubborn and difficult.

---------- Post Merged at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:57 AM ----------

Looks like my move is going to happen today.

I didn't go to work this morning. 

Just walked down to the other building to talk with the manager of the program and she's not in yet. Will be in about 1pm so I'll go back then. 

I know that she's going to say that I should go to the hospital. She's already said that she and the staff can't worry about me 24/7 and they can't offer me 24/7 support. 

As soon as I tell her what's on my mind (without her even knowing about the fact that I self-harmed), it's going to be enough for her to say that I should go back to the hospital.

I self-harmed again. _{detail removed}_

All that's on my mind is to not go to the hospital and _{detail removed}._ I can't carry on like this. 

I constantly want to self-harm. Even thinking about being in the closed ward and what I could possibly do. Very limited though so think it'll be OK.

---------- Post Merged at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:57 AM ----------

I'm on the way to the hospital. A care worker is taking me in her car. Wish me luck :/

I'm saving my life basically. I was planning on doing something tonight.


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## AmZ (Jun 18, 2012)

So, I'm in the hospital. 

Me and my care worker waited 2 hours in the emergency to be seen by a psychiatrist. 

The woman in front of me turns out to be American and is also in the open ward. I'm in a room with my previous American roommate who is still here which is nice. 

They gave me an IV for fluids and are giving me Ensure drinks because I'm not eating properly. Cleaned where I self-harmed. Doing blood tests tomorrow to check everything (and my thyroid again). 

Lots of questions and he was pretty tough going and I cried because he was giving me such a hard time. What can ya do? It was ok in the end, we made friends. 

I somehow have managed to go in to the open ward of the hospital. There was ONE spare bed! 

Wow, it was all drama going off in the closed ward. I couldn't be in there. A woman hands and legs chained together, some woman running up and down smashing herself in to the door, police, army, guns, the whole shabang. 

They're adding a new medication tomorrow and I'll be coming off of the Seroquel fast but not too fast. I forgot the name of the medication they want to put me on. 

My social worker, psychologist and psychiatrist all came to visit me in the emergency room and gave me a hug and said it'll be ok. They're really nice. 

And my roommate, dad, sister, a guy from the rehabilitation program, psychologist and manager of the program all called to see if I'm ok. 

I'll be having a panel meeting in the morning with all the staff (a lot of staff) which isn't so enjoyable but has to be done. 

I tried to say about the OCD thing and again it was shrugged off as 'if it's mild, then it doesn't matter now'. I'll bring it up with my psychiatrist in this ward tomorrow and hope she'll hear me. 

It took from 3pm to 8pm to get me seen and signed in and my care worker stayed with me for all of it. She's really sweet. 

I'm feeling at ease here which is a good thing and a bad thing because I can't stay here my whole life! Hopefully I'll manage to get stronger and quickly and I'm hoping that the new medication will help out too. 

I want to say thank you to everyone on the forum here who have been supporting me for all of these months, especially these very difficult few weeks. I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. Honestly, I don't know what I would have done without you guys.


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## forgetmenot (Jun 18, 2012)

Make sure your pdoc hears you ok  write down everything  OCD  and everything else that needs to be said and hand it to pdoc  who will read it    Glad you are in open floor hun


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## AmZ (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks Eclipse, will do. 

Still on my list two years later is to sort my sleep out. And depression. 2 rather large things. 

It's 4.40am and I've been awake for over an hour. (can't say the snoring roommate helps). Its something that really needs sorting out. Cant function like this.

---------- Post Merged at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:42 AM ----------

Feeling quite strong. I see and feel myself differently this time being here. I didn't sleep well but at least I didn't have to get up at 6.30am for work. Just in the art room now talking with people. 

I have a panel meeting at 1.30pm (question time) and they'll tell me which new medication I'm starting on today. For some reason they decreased the Prozac from 80mg to 60mg. 

Hope everyone is well.

---------- Post Merged at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:42 AM ----------

Looks like they're putting me on Valporal.(valproic acid? Is the same thing?) Does anyone know about this medication? Info very sparse on Google. Looks like its an anti-seizure medication used to stabilise moods too. Like Lamictal which I was on?

So nice. I'm out in the middle of nowhere and my psychologist from the rehab program just turned up. Brought me some food and drink. 

Luckily was 5 minutes before my panel meeting so he came in the meeting and spoke also which was really helpful. Maybe there is a God after all.


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## AmZ (Jun 19, 2012)

I'll ask my psychiatrist on Thursday about the medication. The only reason why
I'm asking here is because my psychiatrist doesn't work tomorrow and I'm starting the medication tomorrow. You know me, I like to be an informed consumer. If anyone knows more about the medication then I'd be grateful for the information. 

I know that everyone reacts differently to medications but I have two previous roommates that were on this medication and they both said it's a very powerful drug and they both reported hair loss and various side effects. I'm pretty sure they had to have blood tests all the time which I am not good at. Anyway, don't worry, I'm not shooting the idea down about taking this medication. If my psychiatrist recommends it then I'll take it. 

I feel myself so different here this time. I'm talking to people, looking at them in the eyes, which I didn't really do before. Standing up for myself more, more confident.

With that being said, I'm a little disturbed today and am finding myself having thoughts (visual) which are rather unpleasant. A 26 year old girl was hospitalised here when I was here before for a few months. She left the hospital the other week, acted like she's fine and on the same day, ended her life. She had 3 little kids and a husband. My roommate told me what she did and it's disturbing to say the least. It's just going around in my head again and again. 

I know that I am feeling calmer and better because I am here and remember the same thing happened in my previous hospitalisation. It lasted a couple of weeks and then I broke down. I'm worried that we're not going to be able to see my real situation so won't know if the new medication is working. Know what I mean? Maybe I'll need to be here longer because of it?


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## Retired (Jun 19, 2012)

Here is what you need to know about valproic acid:



> If you are taking the sprinkle capsules, you may notice the medication beads in your stool. This is normal and does not mean that you did not get the full dose of medication.
> 
> If you have diabetes and your doctor has told you to test your urine for ketones, tell the doctor that you are taking valproic acid. Valproic acid can cause false results on urine tests for ketones.
> 
> ...



As you have correctly said, everyone responds differently to each medication, so the experience of someone else is no indication of what you can expect.  You just don;t have enough information about the situation of others to draw any conclusions.

What is important is that you focus on the potential benefits of the medication, and the anticipated relief of symptoms.  However, if you notice anything unusual, you need to report this to your doctor.  Sometimes it just needs a slight modification in dose.

So, in summary, make sure your doctor knows all the facts about your medications, your symptoms and your concerns, and keep your focus on getting better.  There may be some occasional and often transient side effects while your body becomes accustomed to any medication change, but if these side effects persist, report to your doctor.



> I'm talking to people, looking at them in the eyes, which I didn't really do before. Standing up for myself more, more confident.



Sounds like good progress to me!


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## AmZ (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you Steve. Much appreciated. I'm pretty sure that this is the medication they want to put me on. Guess I'll find out tomorrow either way! 

Funny, the differences in opinions between different psychiatrists. The psychiatrist at the rehab program wanted to put me on Cymbalta, an SNRI and now in the hospital all of the psychiatrists agreed on this medication as a way forward. We hope. 

I'm used to some funky side effects so I hope it'll be ok. In hospital they threw me from one drug to another. I was on Effexor for 5 months or so at 300mg/500mg (can't remember - but  at max dosage). By the time I'd been in the hospital for two days, I was off of it completely! 

I've had the whole benzo withdrawal too. Head buzzing internally and stuff and as soon as I took half a milligram, 15 minutes later, the side effects went away. Then I came off if it slower and it was ok. 

I'll be honest. I'm pretty petrified at the possibility of feeling bad. Do I need to tell myself that it IS going to happen sometime? I guess it's the BPD and triggers that gets me going. I'm still very much learning what causes my mood to change. 

I get comfortable feeling ok and then bang, it hits me. Then I feel bad and it feels like all is lost and I'm never going to feel better again. 

It's such a roller-coaster ride. It really is. 

I spoke with my dad and sister this evening and it was nice to report them positive things. But wow, I hate when it all goes wrong and I need to report them bad things. I need to remember, it was ONLY yesterday morning that I self-harmed. It feels like ages ago. 

Guess I'm not as healthy as I feel right now. It's a very confusing experience. 

Thank for the support 

---------- Post Merged on June 20th, 2012 at 02:09 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 19th, 2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

Where'd everyone go? Your advice is much appreciated. 

It's my 2am wake-up call. Strange. I must have some internal alarm clock going off!!

Now I don't know about getting back to sleep. Especially because of the snoring in the bed next to me. Wow.

---------- Post Merged on June 20th, 2012 at 03:52 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 19th, 2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

3.50am. Habe been up for two hours now. Can't fall back asleep.  

I've had enough of sleep problems!

---------- Post Merged on June 20th, 2012 at 04:33 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 19th, 2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

4.30pm and still awake. 

So annoying.

---------- Post Merged on June 20th, 2012 at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 19th, 2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

Lalala. 5.05am. Still darn awake!! Starting to go crazy.

---------- Post Merged on June 20th, 2012 at 05:41 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 19th, 2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

5.15am. Still going strong. 
I'll stop talking to myself now!


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

There you go. Feeling very bad today. Lack of sleep really affecting me. Feel like a dead weight. Have been in bed for a couple of hours and feel better for it but spent the morning with my head down on the table unable to get up or move. Managed to eat a tiny bit but couldn't chew on the food. 

They raised the Prozac again to 80mg from 60mg yesterday and one of the nurses told me that they want to RAISE the Seroquel. I asked to come off of it and now they're saying they want to raise it. I'm already on 500mg. Not a happy bunny about it. I really don't think it's doing anything. I don't want to keep adding medications on top of medications. If something isn't doing something, I don't want to take it. 

And that's it. They haven't added the new medication today. Just raising the Prozac and Seroquel.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 20, 2012)

AmZ said:


> They raised the Prozac again to 80mg from 60mg yesterday and one of the nurses told me that they want to RAISE the Seroquel. I asked to come off of it and now they're saying they want to raise it. I'm already on 500mg. Not a happy bunny about it. I really don't think it's doing anything. I don't want to keep adding medications on top of medications. If something isn't doing something, I don't want to take it.



You are not a physician. You have no training in the use of medications. 

They are trained in their professions. They know what they're doing. They are the experts, not you.

For your own sake, don't repeat past mistakes. You are the patient. They are the professionals. Let them do their jobs and stop arguing with them and second guessing or debating their decisions.

You've got a second chance here, AmZ. Want a different outcome than last time? Then stop doing what you did last time and let the professionals make the medical decisions.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

Fine, fine. I'm going with what they are doing. I just can't say that I'm going to be a happy bunny IF they increase both medications then I'll be on max dosage on all of them. And IF I still don't feel better, then they go to add another medication on top, I don't really want that. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be on as less medications as possible. For many reasons. Heath reasons, financially etc.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 20, 2012)

There you go again. I must have missed where you completed medical school and your residency in psychiatry.

Your life. Your choice.

But here's my advice: Start listening to your health care professionals and TAKING THEIR ADVICE instead of making their jobs more difficult by debating and second guessing every decision they make on your behalf.

Honestly, AmZ, this is getting old. This has NOT worked for you previously. This is NOT going to work for you now.

Step 1 is letting the health care professionals do their jobs. Again, you are the PATIENT, not the doctor.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

I just said fine, I am going with what they are doing!!

I may say that I'm not happy about this and that, but I always go with what they suggest. I asked to come off of the Seroquel with my psychiatrist at the rehab program and he said ok, so we started reducing it. If he would have said no, then I would carry on with it. And now they're saying they're raising it, I'm raising it.


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## Banned (Jun 20, 2012)

AmZ said:


> Fine, fine. I'm going with what they are doing. I just can't say that I'm going to be a happy bunny IF they increase both medications then I'll be on max dosage on all of them. And IF I still don't feel better, then they go to add another medication on top, I don't really want that. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be on as less medications as possible. For many reasons. Heath reasons, financially etc.



Not to discourage you but it can take years to get someone's medication tweaked to the point that it works for them.  Thats with a cooperative patient.  You are so resistant to everyone and everything that until you realize that the medication and others cant do it all for you, even when the perfect med combo is found you might not even know it.  You say fine fine you'll do what they want but that's an attitude of resignation, not cooperation.  Until you put one foot in front of the other and do the real, hard, unpleasant work involved in getting better, your life is going to stay exactly as it is.  I promise.  Neuroplasticity is a huge gift from whomever you believe makes brains.  It also helps the unwell get well.

I don't think you need soft coddling, which is why Im being blunt.  You gotta pull up your socks and stop waiting for yourself to fall into the perfect everything, and start rowing your boat like mad to get to calmer seas.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

I can't say that it's easy going inbetween different psychiatrists. When I went for the first time to the psychiatrist in the rehab program even he questioned why I take Seroquel. He was like '600mg Seroquel?!' and raised his eyebrows. So it's not always so easy and straight cut. He wanted to put me on Cymbalta and I just checked with the nurse to see which changes are being made and so far just the Prozac has been moved to 80mg again and I've just taken 600mg Seroquel instead of 500mg. 

It's certainly tough love here. I guess I must be very frustrating otherwise I wouldn't get reactions such as these. I really don't see what I'm doing wrong 'with everyone and everything' - EVERYONE has their own opinions about their meds, it's their bodies, and all it is is an opinion. I've always gone with what my doctors have said in the end. I just took 600mg Seroquel without a fuss.

---------- Post Merged at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:23 PM ----------

If it's not one thing then it's something else. The depression lifts and then the anxiety sets in. For 4 hours I've been having heart palpitations, tight chested, feeling faint, a bit difficult to breathe, unpleasantries. I haven't asked for Clonazepam but it's getting a bit ridiculous and unbearable so I may ask. 

Too much darn suffering. 

Feeling rough.


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## Banned (Jun 20, 2012)

It's not that it's tough love but it's input from healthier outsiders, which is why I assume you ask for input.  If we said anything else it would a) be unethical b) untrue and c) enabling your behaviour.  I don't think anyone here is interested in taking that kind of approach.  You see it differently because your thoughts and perceptions are so distorted.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

Agree to disagree. I appreciate your input. I admit, I'm not the healthiest of people around here but I believe that you are exaggerating. 

Re-read the responses. I don't believe that I am deserving of them. See my answers each time. Getting batted down because I am 'going against my doctors', but oh, I took the medication increase and didn't cause problems. I am going with what they are saying. I know their word is final. 

I'm not going against my doctors. I may now and again purely have a different point of view after being a guinea pig for 2 years and being put on several meds at once. So far their technique hasn't worked so maybe it's time to try another technique. 

I'm entitled to have my point of view and input also in to MY health.


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## Retired (Jun 20, 2012)

> after being a guinea pig for 2 years



The fact is that in treating this kind of illness with the state of the art medications currently available, it is a trial and error process to find the right combination of medications that reset the chemical balance in each individual.  That chemical imbalance is different in every person, and at present there is no "one size fits all" in treating these disorders.

Sometimes it can take years to find the right combination for a person, and what's even more fascinating is that even though a particular compound did not relieve symptoms earlier, it may just be effective another time later on.

The process requires perseverance and patience by both the doctor, who uses his/her clinical experience as a guide, and by the patient who must comply with the doctor's recommended treatments and all the variations, all the while reporting accurately the current state of symptoms and side effects, if any.

It can be a lengthy, tedious and tiresome process, but if there is any hope of regaining control of your life and remission of symptoms, it's what needs to be done.



			
				AmZ said:
			
		

> I'm entitled to have my point of view and input also in to MY health.



Agreed, you want to advocate for your own health care; but consider tempering your determination to compensate your own subjective perspective at this time.  Your illness is adversely affecting your mood and your judgement, whereas your doctors are objective in their analysis and their recommendations for you.  Consider allowing them to do their work, follow their recommendations and see if that strategy might produce different, and hopefully better results.

Please remember, the doctors are on your side.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you Steve. I hear you loud and clear and agree with everything you said. I'm really not trying to make things difficult for myself but I do understand that sometimes there are things to discuss or ask my doctor and I'm allowed to do so. 

Very worried about my mental and physical state. I'm really trying to have faith in the doctors and medications but it's being a long battle. 

Last night I slept from 11pm-2am. Didn't succeed in getting back to sleep. Now it's 1.30am and I've woken up again. I really can't let the same thing happen like happened last night again. 

It really span me off in the wrong and bad way.

---------- Post Merged at 01:43 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:33 AM ----------

I went to the nurse's station and they gave me another Imovane. Hope it helps. Just feel wide awake again like last night.

---------- Post Merged at 03:59 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:33 AM ----------

It's 4am and I'm still awake even though I took another Imovane at 1.30am. Don't know why my sleep has been even worse in the hospital and what the possible options are left to me. I've since tried Remeron and Numbon but no such luck. Will bring it up with my psychiatrist today when I meet her.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 20, 2012)

AmZ said:


> It's 4am and I'm still awake even though I took another Imovane at 1.30am. Don't know why my sleep has been even worse in the hospital and what the possible options are left to me. I've since tried Remeron and Numbon but no such luck. Will bring it up with my psychiatrist today when I meet her.



Because whenever you make a medication change it takes time for your body and brain to adapt to it.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

5am still wide awake. Going to the nurse's station and will ask for Clonazepam. I'm just now anxious about sleeping and then even more so, I can't sleep. No option to lay in bed in the morning and sleep a bit. Locked out of our rooms at 9.15am. 

Anyway. Enough from me *grr* frustrated.

---------- Post Merged at 05:15 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:59 AM ----------

No Clonazepam for me. They don't want to give me another medication. Just told me good morning and ride it out for the next 3 1/2 hours till I need to get up.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 20, 2012)

See above. The quick fix is not always the best fix.


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## AmZ (Jun 20, 2012)

What do you suggest Dr Baxter?

Maybe there are other sleep medications that I have not tried?

I think my Imovane days are over. They really do nothing for me nowadays. 

I tried that Numbon for maybe 5 days or so but my psychiatrist said that if it hasn't worked within 5 days then don't bother carry on taking it. 

Also tried Remeron for 3 weeks but didn't help my sleep at all so my psychiatrist said to stop that too. 

At this point, I may as well not be taking anything because nothing I take seems to be doing anything. 

I'll be speaking to my psychiatrist about it in the morning amongst the other things.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 20, 2012)

No. What I'm suggesting is that you let your doctors follow there best clinical instincts and wait it out. That's one of the benefits of being in the hospital - they don't expect you to go to work in the morning. Maybe what is needed is that you take the time to wean off some of the medications and settle on one or two or three that work.

Be patient and trust in the experience and training of your caregivers. They know what they are doing.


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes. That's exactly what I want to do. Thx for the advice.


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## Banned (Jun 21, 2012)

Has anyone taught you mindfulness or meditation?  It can help slow your brain down enough that you have a chance of sleeping. I rely on Imovane to sleep every night - I have for almost three years, and when I'm calm I can pass out 20 minutes after taking it but when I'm wound up I too can stay up all night thinking.


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

I've been shown many different breathing techniques with guided imagery etc. I have no problem falling asleep (even without Imovane) but I can only seem to sleep a few hours maximum and I wake up. I feel calm and last night at 1.30am even took another Imovane but I still didn't fall back asleep for the rest of the night. 

This is the worst my sleep has been in the last 2 years since this started. I usually manage to sleep until 4am or so. 

Will be speaking with my psychiatrist today and will see what she says.

---------- Post Merged at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:12 AM ----------



David Baxter said:


> No. What I'm suggesting is that you let your doctors follow there best clinical instincts and wait it out. That's one of the benefits of being in the hospital - they don't expect you to go to work in the morning. Maybe what is needed is that you take the time to wean off some of the medications and settle on one or two or three that work.
> 
> Be patient and trust in the experience and training of your caregivers. They know what they are doing.



I wanted to say that this is exactly what I want to do. So it seems that we agree 

What they are doing so far is not this. They're maxing me back out on meds that I've been taking for months at the max dosage that I started to adjust a week or two ago with my psychiatrist at the rehab program. Obviously they aren't working as I've been pretty much in a bad situation since I left the hospital and went to the rehab program. So to my common sense, it seems like this is the perfect time to adjust what I'm on.

---------- Post Merged at 02:31 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:12 AM ----------

I just met with my psychiatrist. I don't know why but I wasn't very impressed. I'm sorry to be negative. She didn't ask anything like she usually does and my mind wasn't really with it so I don't know if I told her everything. 

She said the Seroquel is staying at 600mg and the Prozac I'm staying at 80mg. Need to wait a week and a half to see if the Prozac increase works and no other changes are happening. 

Concerning the sleep, she said to try Clozapine which I took for several months and then stopped working. But she still said to try it again. So I'll be doing that tonight. 

Already been at 80mg Prozac for a week and a half maybe. Need patience and time now to wait another week and a half to see if it helps. 

I hope it'll do the trick otherwise I'm going to have to add on something else and wait to see if that works. I can easily be here for a month. 

I am not happy. But hey, what's news?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 21, 2012)

AmZ said:


> I wanted to say that this is exactly what I want to do. So it seems that we agree



If you think we agree, you have not understood what I wrote.



AmZ said:


> I can easily be here for a month.



And? Why are you in such a hurry to get back outside? How happy were you when you were out there?


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

Maybe what is needed is that you take the time to wean off some of the medications and settle on one or two or three that work. -- that's what I agree with. 

Concerning your other points - I guess I'm not in too much of a rush. I hope that my place will be left there for me. One girl from the rehab program was also hospitalised here but she came last Thursday and only stayed until Sunday. I know that I need to give it the time that it needs. But it feels like swings and roundabouts. After 2 years (sorry to say that again) I don't have that much faith in the medications and in myself. 

I know I'm still on the same rhetoric about 'what is the point of life?' and I can't see my future and I still have no hopes and dreams. Still don't know what to do in my life. 

To be honest, suicide is still on the cards. I don't think any medication is going to change that thought. 

Just sitting here having a nice cry I'm so frustrated and confused.

---------- Post Merged at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:10 PM ----------

What a state. Can't stop crying.  

My psychologist just called from the rehab program. Asked me what I think about ECT and said that he'd spoken to the psychiatrist that received me in the emergency room and he said that he doesn't think I'm depressed. Ex-f******-scuse me. Then apparently he spoke with my psychologist and changed his mind and said ok I have depression. 

So ECT. It doesn't look like my psychologist has much faith in the medications either. 

Feeling pretty hopeless. 

Just easiest to not see my existence in this world.

---------- Post Merged at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:10 PM ----------

Stupidity. I have panic attacks and anxiety and you know what? When I arrived in the emergency room he asked what I was currently prescribed and I said I have 2mg Clonazepam SOS. The psychiatrist said smiling 'for now, you don't have that, ok?!'. (What the hell does that mean?!). Now I've just had to wait 30 minutes for the psychiatrist to come and check me so I could get the Clonazepam because it wasn't on my medication sheet. And she gave it to me. The doctor for some reason refused to put it down on my list of meds even though I am PRESCRIBED this. I'd never even met the psychiatrist that accepted me in the emergency room. He didn't know anything about me and had no old files on the table about me. 

I swear. I'm about to get up and throw some chairs around or something. I'm going to f****** lose it. I'm going to go crazy and lose the plot. The Clonazepam had better kick in VERY SOON.

---------- Post Merged at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:10 PM ----------

I'm struggling. And I guess that there is no advice for me because it's just all TOO screwed up?

I was so close to getting up and throwing some chairs around but pretty boring as even the windows are made out of thick plastic. Rather boring. 

Lucky I just laid frozen on my bed and didn't allow myself to move until the Clonazepam got in my system. 

I went crazy with one of the nurses totally angry and sobbing my eyes out. Went to walk out and she called me back, kept saying to me not to hurt myself. Got on the phone to the emergency psychiatrist straight away and said I'm in a bad way. Crying and shaking and tight chested. 

Another day in the life of AmZ. Too much fun, I tell ya. 

I just want it to be over. Maybe I just won't wake up in the morning.

---------- Post Merged at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:10 PM ----------

God damn. The nurse won't give me the Clozapine now (10.30pm) and said to come and get it "if" I wake up during the night. No strength to argue. It's just frickin stupidity. I used to take it at 10pm so she wants me now to have to get out of bed during the night, put clothes on and go miserably to get the Clozapine and wait for ages for it to kick in (if it does anything anyway). 

I'm sorry to be off ranting like this. I hope I don't sound like too much of a pathetic friggin idiot. 

If I do then please just scrape me off the face of this earth. I'll pray for my death.

---------- Post Merged on June 22nd, 2012 at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous Post was on June 21st, 2012 at 04:10 PM ----------

Obviously 2am. Have been awake for an hour. Can't get back to sleep so they've given me 40mg Clozapine. 

Nobody has any words to offer me from all of these posts I've made? A little support would be nice - I'm just saying. Obviously struggling here and not the only one who is struggling I know (I don't think I deserve special treatment or anything) but it feels like you guys have given up on me. All of these difficult posts I have made and nobody has anything to say? Just be done with it AmZ, you agree with that?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 21, 2012)

What is there to say? We've told you you need to be patient and work with your doctors while they make changes. Here it is about 24 hours later and you're already complaining that things aren't changing quickly enough for you.

You need to be patient and take it one day at a time. Nothing new in that advice.


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## Cat Dancer (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry you're having a hard time. I hope the medication helps soon.

I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but when you (or anyone else) updates your post it doesn't show as updated. I only check if a new post has been made by someone. I guess I need to start checking whether it shows the post is new or not.


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

Ok. Thank you. 

Just pretty unpleasant stuff has been happening and I've been in distress. I'm not asking for special treatment here. But sometimes, like I do, just saying a kind word or two to someone can help them a lot. That's what I thought was so great about this forum. 

I guess I've got an hour max to see if the Clozapine works or not. Already took it 25 mins ago. 

If it doesn't work then I've got 2 nights ahead of me before my psychiatrist is back on Sunday. The emergency doctor won't prescribe me with anything new so looks like I'll have to try and make it through the next couple of days on still less and less sleep. Hopefully I will be ok and not go totally crazy and angry or delusional.


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## Banned (Jun 21, 2012)

Ditto to what CD said, and, I went out for a few hours.  I checked here before I left, and I just got home.  We are in different time zones, doing different things.  And sometimes, just have nothing to add.


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

Cat Dancer said:


> Sorry you're having a hard time. I hope the medication helps soon.
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but when you (or anyone else) updates your post it doesn't show as updated. I only check if a new post has been made by someone. I guess I need to start checking whether it shows the post is new or not.



Thanks CD. I really appreciate it. You are right about the auto merging of the posts and it not bouncing the post back to the top but it staying at its original post date and time.

---------- Post Merged at 02:34 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:31 AM ----------



Turtle said:


> Ditto to what CD said, and, I went out for a few hours.  I checked here before I left, and I just got home.  We are in different time zones, doing different things.  And sometimes, just have nothing to add.



I understand. Thank you. I don't mean to be saying this in order to get excuses and apologies or anything. I just wanted to say. 

That was one tough afternoon and evening as you can see from my posts and things nearly span out of control.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 21, 2012)

AmZ said:


> Thanks CD. I really appreciate it. You are right about the auto merging of the posts and it not bouncing the post back to the top but it staying at its original post date and time.



No. When posts are automerged, the timestamp is updated and if you are subscribed to a thread you receive a new notification. If that is not happening for some of you, your settings for something are incorrect.


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## Cat Dancer (Jun 21, 2012)

Are there classes or groups at the hospital that you can take part in?

---------- Post Merged at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:36 PM ----------

It doesn't update on the main board for me. I don't subscribe to any threads. But when someone adds to their post it still shows the same time as the orginal post.


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## AmZ (Jun 21, 2012)

Cat Dancer said:


> Are there classes or groups at the hospital that you can take part in?
> 
> ---------- Post Merged at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:36 PM ----------
> 
> It doesn't update on the main board for me. I don't subscribe to any threads. But when someone adds to their post it still shows the same time as the orginal post.



Ditto. It doesn't come up in new/recent posts. In fact, for the last week or so, I didn't mention anything but also I've not been receiving emails of notifications of new posts made in my threads. 

CD - I go to everything that is available in the hospital. Daily group therapy for 30 minutes in the morning. Then 2 hours of the art room and then it's lunchtime and we don't have anything for the rest of the day. Asides from meeting with my psychologist twice a week. 

So, took the Clozapine an hour ago and it's had no effect on me. It's 3am so no need to go to the nurses office as there's nothing else I can try to help me sleep. All avenues exhausted for now. 3 days until I can speak with my psychiatrist about it and what we do next. I think it needs to be taken more seriously to be honest. Sleep is so important.


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## Cat Dancer (Jun 21, 2012)

Sleep is important. I hope you can get that straightened out.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 21, 2012)

Cat Dancer said:


> Are there classes or groups at the hospital that you can take part in?
> 
> ---------- Post Merged at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:36 PM ----------
> 
> It doesn't update on the main board for me. I don't subscribe to any threads. But when someone adds to their post it still shows the same time as the orginal post.



But it does. Check the time at "Post merged at 07:37 PM" and "Previous Post was at 07:36 PM" with the Posted time at the top of your post:


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## Cat Dancer (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes, but it doesn't show up as a new time on the main board or in the recent/new posts. Amz's post all day showed that it was made at 9 am something but she made several other posts. This never showed up as a new post so I didn't know she'd updated until you added your post. I'm sorry if this isn't making sense. It's been an issue for a week or so.

Sorry for the hijack. I was just trying to explain why I hadn't answered her post earlier. I didn't see it as a new post.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh... it does bump up the thread in the Recent Posts list but you're saying it doesn't show the new time until someone else replies?

I'll report this as a bug.


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## Banned (Jun 22, 2012)

(I'm having the same issue, David.  Thanks for reporting.)


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## AmZ (Jun 22, 2012)

The Clozapine knocked me out but because I took it during the night, it's 9am now and I've only just managed to come to. Totally grogged out all morning. So that's where I hope they'll let me do things differently and take it at 10pm because of this reason. And it took a good hour or so to kick in.  And hopefully it's affects will last throughout the whole night if I take it at 10pm.

(Turtle- the same happens to me with the posts. It doesn't update/bounce it in the recent posts section etc )


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## Banned (Jun 22, 2012)

But at least you got some sleep.


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## AmZ (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah. I'm not complaining. Hopefully just taking it those few hours earlier will do the trick. 

I didn't have to get up this morning for anything as Fri and Sat are our weekend days. So I had a great lay in. Caught up on a lot of sleep. 11.30am and I'm just getting out of bed!


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## rdw (Jun 22, 2012)

Maybe the doctor has a reason for giving the medication at a later time - have you asked them? In an earlier post you stated that you have no trouble falling asleep but difficulty remaining asleep - could it be they are simply going with the information you provided?


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## AmZ (Jun 22, 2012)

Turned out my psychiatrist had forgotten to add it to my medication sheet so it was just the nurses decision to say to only take it if I woke up during the night. 

A nurse told me this afternoon that the psychiatrists (this morning) have changed my 10pm bedtime medication from Imovane to Clozapine. So I was meant to have it at 10pm but my psychiatrist forgot to add it to my med sheet on Thursday.


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## AmZ (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi peoples,

I've only made it to 5am sleeping. 12-5am. Getting light out and don't think I'll get back to sleep now. 

5 hours of sleep is better than 2-3. 

Still pretty difficult though.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

All I want to do is self harm. I can't go in to detail but I want to do something specific. So, as I am told to do, I went to the nurses office. My blog post from now: 

I?m struggling.

I?m trying to reach out for help and nobody can offer me words of help or support.

I just went to the nurses station and said I?m having thoughts about hurting myself. In fact, that is all that?s going through my mind.

The nurse said ?you?ve been here for eighteen days and they haven?t changed your medications?!?. That?s all everyone says asides from the psychiatrists. I?ve just been left in a total state for 18 days and nothing has been changed.

I feel like my doctors have really given up on me. They increased the Clozapine to 80mg and it made no difference, they reduced the Prozac from 80mg to 60mg and kept the Seroquel at 600mg. Nothing else has been changed.

The nurse just said to me she doesn?t know what to say to me but that I should ask (again) my psychiatrist what is the plan regarding medications. Seemingly nothing.

The nurse have me 2mg Clonazepam and just sent me on my way and said to go and relax in bed. Which is what I?ve been doing all day, trying to read and not be in bed but I?m just frozen in bed with bad bad thoughts.

I feel hopeless and helpless.

It feels like nobody can help me and nobody is even trying any more. What have I been doing for 18 days here? Just rotting away even more, not sleeping properly, bad depressed mood, full of anger because they?re not doing anything to help me.

I just really don?t understand what the point of life is, on top of that, what is the purpose of me being in hospital. Really to just carry on not sleeping and being depressed and anxious and just thrown a load of meds at me that don?t work. And they know they don?t help. It?s been proven that every hour I have been to the nurses office to say that I?m still awake so that it can be written down in the report so the psychiatrists can see that I?m not BSing them.

Like I?ve got a reason to BS them and tell them I don?t feel well when I really do?! Because?? What a pile of s*it. Pardon my French.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 6, 2012)

That's utter nonsense, AmZ. 



They are clearly trying to help you. It's just that it's not fast enough for you and you refuse to accept that this is the way it must be with these types of medications.
By your own comments, things have been done to try to help you with several changes since your hospitalization.
You have been told repeatedly that medications aren't the whole answer, that you have to do some things to help yourself as well. You have had several suggestions on how you might do this. You agree superficially but you either try them for a day at most or you ignore the suggestions entirely.

It's been the same story for months... in hospital, out of hospital, in the closed ward, in the open ward.

You continue to second guess your doctors and the nursing staff for not doing more to help you, which is quite unfair, especially in the case of the nurses... they cannot change medications until changes are approved by the doctors.

When you reach the point where you stop blaming other people and accept that most of the effort toward change is going to have to come from you, then you will start to see some real progress.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 6, 2012)

See Devaluation: The Slippery Slope in BPD.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

Why must it take 18 days (and counting) to do something with my meds? I may not have the most patience and I understand that but meet me half way or something please. 

They decreased the Prozac a couple of days ago. They increased the Clozapine a week ago and no difference with my sleep. So at lease a week of nothing happening there. 

I know that medications are not the only answer, wow do i lnow thst, and I've been trying my absolute best in one-on-one therapy and I do ALL the activities that the hospital have on offer including group therapy, the art room, etc. 

I know that nurses can't change medications but I feel at a total loss here. I've tried talking to a couple of nurses and I'm always left feeling helpless. They have nothing to say to me asides from talk about medications. Hello hello. Anyone out there?

I'm not blaming other people per se. I just don't see that they are doing all they can to help me. And they don't even open their mouths to at least tell me to hang in there and that there are options. I just get blank stares and hmms. 

Very much want to self-harm and it's from this confusing and aggravating situation as to why I want to do this. And that I guess I'll harm myself because I'm a worthless piece of crap that can't get her act together after two years. 

Totally pissed. 

It's going to take me 3 minutes to get ready to self harm and I am very much am feeling the impulsiveness. I think just throw me in the closed ward and throw away the darn key. Maybe I belong there with all the loonies?

I have no other outlet.


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## rdw (Jul 6, 2012)

You do have other outlets however you continually return to old patterns. In a previous post you equated blogging to journalling - these are not the same thing at all. In a blog you are playing to an audience; in a journal you are writing to express emotions, fears, disappointments, etc in an effort to release those emotions in a constructive manner. The treatment of severe depression is a marathon not a sprint, you need to have faith that your doctors know what they doing as they have the training and expertise.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

Just running out of patience. I've been suffering for 2 years now with no let up asides from a few better days here and there. I've spent the last 15 months in hospital. 

They're talking more about ECT. Hmm. 

I can't get my emotions out after all of this time and I either self-harm or punch the wall like now. I'm extremely close to self-harming again and the closed ward is going to be hell. I don't know what to do. 

The shift just changed with the nurses and one came in and asked if the Clonazepam helped. I said no. My thoughts are just the same as before. If not, stronger. I didn't have physical anxiety and it didn't calm my thoughts. 

My dad and sister are due to call me and I have to tell them I'm not feeling good. I've had enough of it. 

I am about to get up and do it. Just wish that closed ward wasn't so dramatic all the time with fights and the isolation room, people strapped to the beds, a majority of men to deal with, stressed out and strict nurses that close the door on your face because they think you've lost your mind like other people in there. All eggs in one basket. Basket-cases. 

I don't know what to do with myself.


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## Retired (Jul 6, 2012)

> I don't know what to do with myself..........They're talking more about ECT.



Sounds like your doctors are pointing you in one possible direction.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

Yep. But they also listed a few medications that I haven't tried which I would like to be the first port of call, understandably.


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## rdw (Jul 6, 2012)

Did the doctor's offer up their opinion regarding the use of those medications?


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## Retired (Jul 6, 2012)

> they also listed a few medications that I haven't tried which I would like to be the first port of call



Ok, so you have a plan in place, and this should be your current focus.  Your doctors are working on your behalf, so your responsibility is to allow them the time and the opportunity to try the strategies they have in their protocol, and just go with the flow.

It seems you find reason to oppose or to find fault with just about everything and everyone you come in contact with who is working to help you at the hospital.  While it's understandably frustrating there doesn't seem to be a silver bullet remedy to your situation. 

As has been repeatedly said, the state of the art for treating this illness, as it is known today, requires trial and error.  Those for whom treatment is most likely to find success are the _patients with patience_, with understanding and a positive, optimistic attitude despite the periodic setbacks and negative influences of the illness.

You need to make a commitment to yourself that you will do everything in your power to get through this so you can regain control over your life?


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes, they said Valporal and Cymbalta and a couple more. I just want to get going on something already. I don't see that that's such a bad thing to want to do after having 18 days of nothing. So come on and do something. I don't know what we're waiting for. 

It's very difficult understandably to have patience when you're suffering do much. I admit, I am lacking in patience because of that and just looking at the facts of it.


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## rdw (Jul 6, 2012)

Really we have all suffered though years of mental illness - just ask some of us how long it's been However  through that suffering we are all telling you to have patience, work the program, listen to your doctors, therapists, social workers and nurses. These people are your allies not your enemies. The fact is we have made it through the worst of times by using the help and support and being responsible for our own well being.  Some of us still have bad days but we work through them. Until you are through to the other side you will never appreciate the help and support that is being given to you every day.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

I can't stop or accept the thoughts of wanting to self-harm. I'm frozen in bed nearly jumping up in order to self-harm. The nurse said to go the office and they'll get the on-call psychiatrist to give me some other thing asides from the 2 mg Clonazepam I've already taken. Problem is, I don't think these meds stop my thoughts.

I just want to be drunk or stoned out of my face to stop it.  To escape.


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## Retired (Jul 6, 2012)

AmZ said:
			
		

> Problem is, I don't think these meds stop my thoughts.





			
				Steve said:
			
		

> It seems you find reason to oppose or to find fault with just about everything and everyone you come in contact with who is working to help you at the hospital.





			
				David Baxter said:
			
		

> You continue to second guess your doctors and the nursing staff for not doing more to help you,



It seems we've been down this road before.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

The psychiatrist just gave me 25mg Nozinan.


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## Banned (Jul 6, 2012)

Seriously, AmZ?  Two years you've been battling and you want to give up?  I don't mean to sound disrespectful but some of us have battled mental illness a lot longer than that and came through the other side.  I knew at 14 that something was very wrong.  My diagnoses started at 17 and I finally found relief at 36.  I don't know what you need to hear to understand its not an overnight fix.  Your doctors need a baseline which can take some time to get.  Every time they make a change to your meds they need to re-establish that baseline which can take weeks.  You complain if they don't change your meds, you complain if they do.  You complain when you can't sleep at night, you complain if they give you "useless" meds.  If you want to self-injure but truly want to get better why are you not availing yourself of the resources to not self-injure?  Doctors, groups, cbt, dbt.  Cbt is not hard to learn and is something to work on every day.  Have you taken the time to develop those skills?

Quite frankly I think you are happy and comfortable where you are and the thought of change terrifies you.  The reality is, and its been said a million times, only you can change you.  And the meds are important but not the entire equation so stop waiting for them and everyone else to do your work.  Recovery starts and ends with you.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

I was told that the first rule of therapy is to not compare yourself to others. So I don't like that. And if you want to go in to that then I've also been struggling with this for longer than 2 years. I was self-harming when I was 13 years old and now I'm 27. 

I haven't been happy or content for a long time. From puberty throughout my adult years. I don't even know what happiness in life is. 

I know that when you start meds, it can take several weeks  for it to kick in. But I haven't started any for quite a while. I'm very much prepared to try something new and give it the time that it needs to work. But nothing is being added and seemingly what I am taking is not helping enough at least. 

Ive done CBT yes, with my first psychologist I had for 8 months prior to hospitalisation.   

So I'd kindly ask that people don't jump to their own conclusions about me without knowing more. Just like me self harming since the age of 13. You can never know if you jump to a conclusion so yeah.


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## rdw (Jul 6, 2012)

No one is asking you to compare but we are asking you to listen to our stories. We all have a story of struggle and mental illness - this isn't a decorating or gardening forum. And because of our struggles we do know what you need to do . For one you need to see that you are resisting attempts to help you and you frequently refuse to help yourself. You are in a hospital - tell the nurses that you feel you have to self harm. They are there to help YOU. At some point it boils down to you - do you want to get better and are you willing to take the steps to do that? Why do we keep telling you that it is up to you? Because in the end it was up to each one of us to make the changes that we needed to find our way to sound mental health. So listen and read with open and honest yes - we all needed to be 
open and honest about ourselves in order to recover.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

I didn't want to compare and didn't like the jumping to conclusions. 

About me resisting to help myself, it's my thoughts that are stopping me to move forward. It's not something that I am doing on purpose to self-sabotage myself. I simply don't like life and what it has to offer and I don't know what to take from life, what's on offer to make me a happier person. 

I haven't been able to turn these thoughts around for years. And I know that no therapist or medication can of will do that for me that's why I'm ever so frustrated. I can't just snap out of it, it seems. 

Do you know how many times total strangers on the street have said to me "cheer up, it may never happen" or "smile" ? - totally pi**es me off. From when I was a kid. 

Unlike a physical injury you can't see it. 

I went twice to the nurses twice today and said I wanted to self harm. One gave me 2mg Clonazepam and said she didn't know what to say to me and the second one didn't try to talk to me either but just got the on-call psychiatrist to prescribe me something strong. Which unfortunately hasn't helped and I'm still sitting here wanting to SI. 

I don't know what else I can do asides from being strapped down to a bed so that I don't SI. Damn. The closed ward. I just can't go back there. It'll break me. 

I feel like such a total mess I really do. I still pinch myself thinking its a bad dream that I'm waiting to wake up from. What a nightmare.


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## adaptive1 (Jul 6, 2012)

I have had obsessive thoughts for years, what I think is the key is learning to live with them there and not act on them.  So the thoughts don't really stop you from enjoying life if you know what I mean, even if it isnt what you had planned.I have to admit I haven't mastered this completely and it is frustrating but for the most part I work around it.

For example, for about three years almost I am obsessed with worry when I eat and it's very frustrating. When I give in to the thoughts I am dieting and over exercising and researching about it. When I can recognize that it is just obsessive thoughts and just go on with my day, I still get enjoyment from things and I am still living my life.  Right now I catch myself wishing for these thoughts to fade away, but it doesn't work like that.  I know you want your thoughts to change , somehow maybe you have to make peace that this may not happen the way you want, honestly if I could not worry about dieting every second of the day, it would be a relief too, but that seems to be the way my mind works and all I can do is not act on these thoughts and go about my day without expecting perfection. 

Not sure if this helps, just trying to show that you can still be functional because I am. Yours are  obsessive worry about self injury and worrying about sleeping but they are still obsessive thoughts.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank you for sharing that with us. 

Well done on the hard work you have put in to battle these obsessive thoughts. I know you say it's still not easy and I bet it's not from a mile off. 

I feel like up until now, I've just been floating along, my head just above the water. But in the last couple of years, my head has gone below the water and it's hard to be able to pull myself up out of it and get back to paddling. 

And the paddling is exhausting, day in, day out. Continuously. 

Either/and/or I need arm bands to keep me afloat whether that be through therapy and/or medications. 

I'm so fed up of my broken record but I can simply not help myself that I feel this way. And nobody challenges my thoughts or tries to change them. I feel, sorry to be dramatic, but doomed. 

I refuse to live a life like my mother has and is still doing. No friends or interests, a couple of boyfriends since she left my dad 11 years ago. Unhappy. Self-conscious, self-hatred, overweight, unfit. Etc.  (Spent all of her divorce money on having a facelift and chemical peel and she looks extremely strange). 

And I refuse to live just a boring _{deleted}_ life of a 9-5 cruddy job. Struggles with marriage and children, friends being busy with their own lives. 

!!!! Sorry but it all just _{deleted}_ sucks!!!!


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## Retired (Jul 6, 2012)

AmZ said:
			
		

> I refuse to live a life like my mother has and is still doing. No friends or interests, a couple of boyfriends since she left my dad 11 years ago. Unhappy. Self-conscious, self-hatred, overweight, unfit. Etc. (Spent all of her divorce money on having a facelift and chemical peel and she looks extremely strange).





			
				AmZ said:
			
		

> I was told that the first rule of therapy is to not compare yourself to others.



Would your rule not apply here?



> And I refuse to live just a boring life of a 9-5 cruddy job. Struggles with marriage and children, friends being busy with their own lives.




OK, so now describe the kind of life *you would like*.  Draw us a picture of the lifestyle you aspire to, the kind of work, career or profession you intend to follow and what you would look for in a relationship with a possible spouse, and social network.

You have been telling us all the things you detest, dislike and object to.  We all have things we would prefer not to endure, but the reality of life is that occasionally life presents challenges, and it's our responsibility to figure out the solution to make it right.

However, in goal setting, and this is what you are talking about (by the back door) you need to define and describe the ultimate goals to which your aspire, which then allows you to set intermediate goals to achieve the ultimate goal.  

Perhaps this might be an exercise you could work on, that could help you focus on positive goal setting and could perhaps assist in re-orienting your thinking to visualize the future in positive scenarios rather than the negative, destructive scenarios you currently see in your future.


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## AmZ (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't aspire to anything. Whether it be attainable or unattainable. I honestly have no direction or wishes which i wiuld like to aim for. Like the biggest dream ever. I don't have any. Honestly. I have no idea which career I would like to follow, or if I want a husband and kids. Anything. I don't think I can cope being a wife and a mother. I just won't cut it. 

Talking about cutting. Just before 3am now. Been awake for an hour. Dreams about me SI. Unpleasant but still want to do
It. And I was being freaking attacked by an elephant. 

Just went to the nurses office and the nurse gave me one Clozapine as I didn't take before going to bed. She wouldn't give me two Clozapine because I had 25mg Nozinan which she says is a very strong drug. Not that I felt it of course as my body rejects medication like no other!


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## Cat Dancer (Jul 6, 2012)

AmZ said:


> And nobody challenges my thoughts or tries to change them.



That's why YOU must challenge your thoughts. Only you can change your thinking and it is within your power and control no matter how much it seems like it isn't.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

4.15am. Another bad night. 

But cd I can't challenge these thoughts by myself. To me, the thoughts are really true about life. Big philosophical questions. Like what is the purpose of like and how do I find happiness. Does happiness even exist?

_{trigger deleted}_

Going to the nurses office and show that I'm still awake so it can be put down in the report.

---------- Post Merged at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:28 AM ----------

I just SI, DAMN.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

Self injured. 

Then did a whole routine of shaving my legs, clipping my nails, plucking my eyebrows (and showering) as I'm not allowed any of these tools in the closed ward. 

Charging my iPhone as they'll only let me charge my phone overnight in the nurses office. 

Weirdly planning this all out. 

I'm twisted. Just got my stuff in a pile ready to be taken to the closed ward. Still haven't told the nurses what I did.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

So are you proud of yourself? This is pure manipulation. You got to do what you wanted to do and now you can blame the staff, right? But first let's make sure your iPhone is fully charged... 

And what do you want from us now? Sympathy?


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

You are harsh DR Baxter. I must really annoy the hell out of you. I'm sorry. 

I don't want sympathy no. I want for someone to understand the pain I am going through and to hear what I say. Went to the nurse at 4pm for my Seroquel. Asked how I was.  I said no good and she said nothing back to me. Just gave my Seroquel and walked away. I'm not attention seeking or something. I am not trying to be dramatic either. I'm doing what I have the urge to do and then, I guess, facing the consequences. 

I don't blame the staff. Even though I think they could do a bit better. But nobody is perfect. I blame myself for doing it. 

 Am I proud of myself? What do you think?
 I'm disgusted At myself. Me. AmZ. Twisted. Messed up. Angry. Desperate.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

She asked you how you were and all you said was not good? What is she supposed to do with that?

If I'm harsh, it's because nothing else has got through to you in all these months. Sympathy, agreement, coddling - these are not going to do anything to change things. You need to be confronted with reality. You need to start doing some real work instead of expecting everyone else to do it for you.

You DO blame the staff. Constantly. You even did it in that post. You don't blame yourself at all. The staff. Your mother. Your sister. The psychiatrist. The psychologist. On and on.

Real change starts with YOU. Accept that reality and you might just start making some progress finally, YOU are the reason you are trapped in this status quo. No one else. You are doing it to yourself.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

I know I'm doing it to myself. But I also that I'm messed up from things that I wasn't guilty of starting/doing. 

Change starts with me - I don't know what that change is though. If I don't see a future then there's nothing to change.

I can't even get my words out. I don't know. 

I still haven't told the nurses what I did. 

As a conversation usually goes... How are you? .... Not good .... Why, how comes?'


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

Advocate for yourself. If you don't feel heard, make yourself heard. But with your words, your voice, not with dramatic adolescent gestures.

And what messed you up doesn't matter anymore. There's an old cliche that says: You cannot control the hand life deals you. You can control what you do with that hand.

Now. Go and report all this to the nurses. Do it now. No excuses or rationalizations. Your psychologist was wrong. Right now you do belong in the closed ward. From the start, you have been your own worst enemy. You need the closed ward to protect you from yourself.


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## Retired (Jul 7, 2012)

> I still haven't told the nurses what I did.



Why not AmZ?  You are there to receive treatment to make you better.  If you don't tell them your symptoms, and this is indeed a symptom, they won't be able to help you.  Since they cannot help you because you hide symptoms, you become angry that they don't help you.

Do you see the futility of this strategy?

By not being frank and honest with your doctors, you are wasting their time and effort as well as yours.

You tell us you want to be an empowered patient, but in order to be an empowered patient, you need to be a partner in your health care.  Partners are honest and straightforward with one another, and until you begin telling the doctors and nurses exactly what's going on, you are neither their partner in your health care, nor an empowered patient.

Can you see everyone here is trying to guide you in the right direction toward recovery?

That cannot happen until you take responsibility for yourself and begin acting on the good advice being offered you .


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

Did you read this yet, AmZ? Devaluation: The Slippery Slope in BPD.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

I'll be safer in the closed ward but that's about it. Everything else about it increases my depression and anxiety. 

Seeing people in a state, people strapped to beds, a couple of physical fights per day.  My roommate cursing my mum because I wouldn't let her use my phone. Air con on full blast and no way of being outside. Strict nurses that don't listen because they class everyone as the same in the closed ward - total loony bins so they slam the door on your face and don't listen to you. 

When I was in there for 3 days, I spoke to no doctor and tried to speak to a nurse and it backfired on me. 

You get better care in the open ward. Even though I still self-harmed. Nobody listens to you in the closed ward. 

I don't know what to do. They're going to put me in there for a week I bet and I'll just be forgotten about there. Unable to have my therapy sessions or go and speak with my psychiatrist when I want to. 

I'm sorry for myself and for being frustrating but I don't think I'm telling the nurses what I did. 

I will speak with my psychiatrist tomorrow and see how that conversation goes. If it goes badly and I feel myself triggered from it I'll own up and be asked to be put in the closed ward. If it goes well with her then I'll at least have some positivity and see the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

According to you, no one listens to you in the open ward either...

And are you going to tell the psychiatrist tomorrow about this? Or is that going to also be another wasted sessions because you won't be honest but you will be angry when you don't feel better later.

You are just going around and around and around, AmZ, rationalizing, making excuses, and going nowhere, just waiting for someone to rescue you.

All of this really was just an excuse to SI then, as I said.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

David Baxter said:


> Did you read this yet, AmZ? Devaluation: The Slippery Slope in BPD.



And did you see "Today's Quote"? 

"In between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our responses, and in our response lies our growth and our freedom." ~ Viktor Frankl


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## Retired (Jul 7, 2012)

> I will speak with my psychiatrist tomorrow and see how that conversation goes.



Please re-read what David wrote a few posts back in # 98 about advocating for yourself.  When you speak with your psychiatrist, you need to explain your concerns as you have done here about not being able to communicate when you need help and try to figure out a way, _in partnership with your psychiatrist_, that you will receive the care you need, and at the same time receive the support you need.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

Damn. I really messed up. Impulsiveness is ridiculous. 

It's partly to do with me that people don't hear me. I find it difficult to ask for help. I know that's no good. I'm just on that edge where I can say I'm not feeling well but then wish that the nurse would say what's wrong. But they never do it and I almost never speak up and complain because I hate coming out with the same rhetoric. 

I still haven't told the nurses and dont know what to do. I've basically screwed myself up here by SI because the closed ward is a horrible place to be.

---------- Post Merged at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:56 PM ----------

Just went to go tell the nurses what I did and to hand over what I used, but the door was closed as they have someone in there with them. Waited 20 minutes and just came back to my room. Maybe everything happens for a reason and I shouldn't tell them what I did but I should wake up tomorrow in the much nicer open ward and not make myself suffer from being in the closed ward.


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## forgetmenot (Jul 7, 2012)

Self Sabotaging  that is what you are doing   AmZ   You have power to change you do but like many of us hun we stay in a zone we are familar with   Please listen re read what everyone has said to you hun  ONLY YOU can help you   IF you are unable to communicate verbally your need for help then print off everything you have written here and give it to your psychiatrist     I don't know how you can have tools to harm you  are y ou not searched when you return on your passes to make sure there are no such things that could harm you or others if they found them.   Stop what you are doing and do something different ok    I know it must be hard for you but now is the time to do something different AmZ when you have supports all around you try to change ok  hugs


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

I had a razor with me. They let almost everything in in the open ward. 

I hate myself and I hate life so I can't say that it's a good mix right there. I don't want to come out with the same rhetoric so I am sorry but I desire nothing from life. I aspire to be nothing. Just like I am, a friendless loser with no hobbies and interests or career asides from listening to the same music I listened to when I was 15 years old. I'm still stuck as a 15 year old and never moved on from there. 

I don't feel like I deserve to treat myself better. Damn. I've got two nieces that need their aunt and I have no way out of this hell of a life. 

I still haven't told the nurses what I did. Just laying here in pain. But it very much relaxed me. A girl came in to my room and was like "what the hell did they give you?!" (medication) because I was so drowsy and calm from it.


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## forgetmenot (Jul 7, 2012)

Self hatred yes we all feel that hun  anyone that has been abused feels that worthless yes  but it is therapy that changes those internal thoughts and emotions
Be honest not only with your doctors but with YOU AmZ

   you have to do things differently  even a child of 15 can understand that hun
  to change where you are at you need to start on a new path of thinking and reacting.

     Hard yes it is hard  but we all have that power with in us  and i do hope you chose to really read what Doctor Baxter and the others have written   

YOU deserve compassion and understanding hun please know that ok  you are special you are AmZ  so don't waste anymore time ok

  YOU do whatever it takes to get you stable     No one is giving up on you AmZ  we are all here supporting YOU  the only one giving up is you hun


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

AmZ said:


> Just went to go tell the nurses what I did and to hand over what I used, but the door was closed as they have someone in there with them. Waited 20 minutes and just came back to my room. Maybe everything happens for a reason and I shouldn't tell them what I did but I should wake up tomorrow in the much nicer open ward and not make myself suffer from being in the closed ward.



Nonsense. You wait 10 minutes and go back and try again.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

Damn. 

It's my nieces 2nd birthday on Friday and I have all of her presents here to give her. I'm most likely going to be in the closed ward then so my sister already said if I don't feel up to it then they will all come to the hospital. But to put 2 babies in such an environment in a locked room to visit me. It's horrible. They wont let me in with the presents as they're all wrapped up so I'll ask my roommate to give it to my sister when she comes on
Friday. My sister was going to do a little party on Friday which I was going to go to but now I've wrecked that and they now have to schlep 2 hours to get here to see me. 

I still haven't told the nurses. 

I've got my out of jail card and I think I'm using it. 

Tomorrow could be potentially very good for meeting with my psychiatrist then maybe I can even go to the mall on Wednesday then to my nieces birthday party on Friday. 

If I go tell them then I've screwed up several things for myself.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

Total rationalization. If you think it works for you, go for it. If you think anyone else is buying it, you're deluded.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

Deluded then. 

 Going to the closed ward is a punishment. It's known to be an awful place in all respects, even the staff members and that's not coming from my mouth. 

I feel very relaxed and calm since I SI. I should be worrying about the next time I do it right? Unless they keep me in the closed ward permanently. 

I don't know. 9pm and just wanna go to bed

---------- Post Merged at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:52 PM ----------

10pm and just arrived to the closed ward. Told the nurses. I'm in quite a bit of pain as they put alcohol on it _{unnecessary triggering details deleted}_


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 7, 2012)

Good.


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## AmZ (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you. I listened to you guys  sorry for being so indecisive. I do feel safe here. Everything else is tough but I'll get through it. 

I slept pretty well. The best in a long time. They gave me 25mg Nozinan at 9pm and 80mg Clozapine when I woke up at 3am. 

I wonder if they'll carry on giving me Nozinan to help me sleep. It's pretty strong stuff.


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## forgetmenot (Jul 8, 2012)

Good for you AmZ  you are safe there hun


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## AmZ (Jul 8, 2012)

Thx. I know that I'm safe here but absolutely hate it here. Nothing to do, they wouldn't even let me in with my pens and sketchbook. I'm
Totally bored out of my brain and want my psychiatrist to come and rescue me but I don't think that's going to happen. Just been in bed all morning bored. Going stir crazy, not allowed outside or anything. It's tough.


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## forgetmenot (Jul 8, 2012)

is there a magazine or book you can read hun  or music tape that you could listen too


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## AmZ (Jul 8, 2012)

I have two books with me that I've been trying to read but I haven't got the concentration. I could do word searches or soduku but haven't got with me and we're not allowed pens or pencils in the ward. 

I have my headphones on me which they were meant to take away so I can listen to my music and go on YouTube on my iPhone. Don't want my headphones to get taken away though. 

Just got a new woman in our woman in our room. She's screaming and crying. Not so pleasant.

I want my psychiatrist to come and save me! But she hasn't even come to see me today at all and she finishes working now. So hopefully I'll at least speak to her tomorrow. I want to speak with her about the meds.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 8, 2012)

AmZ said:


> Thx. I know that I'm safe here but absolutely hate it here. Nothing to do, they wouldn't even let me in with my pens and sketchbook. I'm totally bored out of my brain and want my psychiatrist to come and rescue me but I don't think that's going to happen. Just been in bed all morning bored. Going stir crazy, not allowed outside or anything. It's tough.



Those are called _*consequences*_, AmZ. It's the basis for reality.



AmZ said:


> I want my psychiatrist to come and save me! But she hasn't even come to see me today at all and she finishes working now. So hopefully I'll at least speak to her tomorrow. I want to speak with her about the meds.



Have you learned anything since yesterday, AmZ? What has changed since yesterday?


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## AmZ (Jul 8, 2012)

Consequences. Yes. 

I'm meant to be having a meeting tomorrow with all of the staff concerning my medications that my psychologist and social worker  are setting up as they also (are not doctors but nevertheless) questioning why I'm on the same meds and have been here for 3 weeks. We just want to know what they are planning on doing. Whatever it may be.

---------- Post Merged at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:07 PM ----------

TODAY's blog post

-- In*bed
I?ve been in bed all day asides from going to the dining room to drink tea at 6am, then went back to bed, then had breakfast at 8.15am, lunch at 12pm and now dinner at 6pm.

Nowhere to walk and nowhere to go, pretty depressing stuff. The only things that weren?t taken off of me was (thank God) my iPhone and 2 books. But I?ve been trying to read and I haven?t got the concentration for it.

Three weeks here and my medications are still the same. They made no changes. I?m trying to understand why because I?m obviously not feeling well. It?s peculiar and I don?t know what they are doing. I admit, I don?t want to blame them for me self-harming, however I?m not feeling well as it is, plus I?ve had the extra anger and frustration that there seems to be no plan with my meds. So I?m feeling very hopeless and helpless. What am I doing here?! I really feel like up and leaving because I feel like I?m wasting my time here.

Usual closed ward business ? fights, people strapped down to beds, a new roommate who is sitting there sobbing her eyes out who has anorexia. The alarm just went off and about 10 male staff members came. Apparently my new roommate threw the metal water jug at one of the staff members. They dragged her out by her arms and legs.

No sunshine on my face. Really miss that. Miss the outside. If this isn?t going to make me more depressed then I don?t know what will!

I was hoping big time that my psychiatrist was going to come to at least talk to me today but she didn?t. Would just be nice to have one of my care workers here to have a little chat with. Dare I say, I want to ask about the medication situation too. I just spoke with an American guy here and his advice was that I totally sit back and let my doctors do whatever they need to do. I just want to feel progress. Even if I start something new and it could take a few weeks to kick in (hopefully), at least something will happening! Try and get me a bit more stable please!

Right. I?m pretty upset and fed up and am getting traumatised by all of this physical violence and screaming. Not good. I?m sensitive. In all honesty, I regret telling them that I cut. I really can?t stand it here. Taking Clonazepam every several hours because of the stress here.--

Still wrong with what I'm saying about the meds? Can you see my frustrations at all?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 8, 2012)

AmZ said:


> Three weeks here and my medications are still the same. They made no changes.



That is simply not true. Unless you lied to us previously when you described the changes you reported.



AmZ said:


> I’m trying to understand why because I’m obviously not feeling well. It’s peculiar and I don’t know what they are doing. I admit, I don’t want to blame them for me self-harming, however I’m not feeling well as it is, plus I’ve had the extra anger and frustration that there seems to be no plan with my meds.



But you are in fact blaming them. Also, you don't know that they don't have a plan since you're so reluctant to speak up and give the staff information or to ask questions.



AmZ said:


> What am I doing here?! I really feel like up and leaving because I feel like I’m wasting my time here.



Oh yeah. Leaving would certainly fix everything...




AmZ said:


> I just spoke with an American guy here and his advice was that I totally sit back and let my doctors do whatever they need to do.



Sounds like excellent advice to me.



AmZ said:


> I just want to feel progress.



But that's going to take effort and hard work from you too, as has been said.



AmZ said:


> Even if I start something new and it could take a few weeks to kick in (hopefully), at least something will happening!



And you are in a rush to get out and do... what?



AmZ said:


> Try and get me a bit more stable please!



A lot of that will be up to you and how hard you are willing to work.



AmZ said:


> Still wrong with what I'm saying about the meds?



Yes.



AmZ said:


> Can you see my frustrations at all?



Yes. Can YOU see how much of that is self-induced?


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## AmZ (Jul 8, 2012)

I hear you. 

Concerning the medication changes - I was at 80mg Prozac for a week and a half before being
Hospitalised. They moved it down
To 60mg for one day in the hospital.  Then A week at 80mg and now moved me down to 60mg which I am taking. 

Regarding the Seroquel. I was at 500mg when i came in to the hospital as my psychiatrist at the rehab program basically said WTF are you on 600mg Seroquel for. Depression. Obviously differences of opinions between doctors. I was only on 500mg for a few days before coming in to the hospital. Then on my second day in the hospital I had a big meeting with the staff and they agreed that I can come off if it. Obviously
Seems like it wasn't doing anything. But the next day, they put me up to 600mg again. So those were the "changes".


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 8, 2012)

You have mentioned a few others, including nozinan. Go back and read what you told us.


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## AmZ (Jul 9, 2012)

Nozinan - that was given to me by an on-call psychiatrist (not my own). It was given to me to calm me down after SI. That night they also gave me 80mg Clozapine and I slept good. Since then, they won't let me take both medications together as they say it's too strong. So this night, I woke up at 1am and they gave me the Nozinan and I slept for 2 hours. Now it's 5am and I've been awake for two hours. So looks like this med isn't going to help me to sleep much either.

---------- Post Merged at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:15 AM ----------

Sorry for being so moany but this is what it is. 

God I hope that I'll be brought back to the open ward today. It's my ultimate dream. I really don't want to SI again. 

Another restless nights sleep. Feeling cr@ppy.

---------- Post Merged at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:15 AM ----------

I'm going literally crazy in here in the closed ward I know, consequences. In bed all day. Nowhere to go and nothing to do. 

I asked 3 times for the nurses to ask to call my doctor and they've apparently called her and she said she's coming to speak to me today. There's two hours before she leaves for the day so I really hope she'll come. First, I'm going to try and get myself out of here, I don't have thoughts about SI. I just feel very depressed and deflated. Secondly, I want to know what the plans are with the medications. I think it's within my rights to politely ask for that info. 

The stuff that's going on down here is ridiculous. I can't even begin to describe it.

---------- Post Merged at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:15 AM ----------

Oh well. My psychiatrist didn't come to talk to me today (or yesterday) like the nurses had said. 

I also called my psychologist to see if she could talk and she said she'd come at 4pm as she was working today. She didn't come but left a voicemail saying she hopes to come see me Wednesday. Damn, looks like I'm going to still be in here then. 2 more days. 

I'm feeling extremely lonely and wound up with thoughts. I need to talk to a professional but I've been here since Saturday and haven't spoken to one psychologist or psychiatrist. It's all building up inside of me.


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## AmZ (Jul 9, 2012)

Grr. I swear. I'm going to punch the wall.


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## rdw (Jul 9, 2012)

What would that accomplish?


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## AmZ (Jul 9, 2012)

Let some anger out. Feel something. I'm full up of bad feelings in many respects. Anxiety, depression, anger. Just had a panic attack because a guy triggered me (won't go in to details there, but it's like freaking trauma) and I stood for 10 minutes by the nurses office (they were eating) finding it hard to breathe (said that to them through the door) before a nurse came out and said he won't give me Clonazepam (now) and 80mg Clozapine (at 10pm) so gave me 40mg Clozapine. 

It's a double edged sword, it really is. I'm having suicidal thoughts I feel so down and depressed. Here crying in bed. Feeling totally hopeless and helpless.  Now I'm feeling suicidal!!

3 weeks now. Please do something with my Goddamn medications!


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## Retired (Jul 9, 2012)

> Please do something with my Goddamn medications!



As has been said, by several others, there is no medication magic bullet that is going to magically alleviate your symptoms.

Your attitude, your cooperation and your commitment to take control of your life in conjunction with your becoming engaged with the supportive psychotherapy programs provided by your therapists are the road to recovery.

Those of us following your struggle and observing your responses, see you battling every step of the way which seems to be keeping you stuck in the status quo.

You have been receiving so much good advice from so many Forum members, but you seem to resist acting on much of what is being offered to you, AmZ.


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## AmZ (Jul 9, 2012)

I think I'm just screwed. I've been told all along that a medication or medications will help take the edge off of the depression, insomnia and anxiety. Now, 2 years later and I still seem to be stuck in the same place. 

I've been working very hard on therapy for the last two years, I don't think that can be faulted.  I've been open and honest and haven't hidden anything. I've done all of the homework that has been set, sometimes spending hours doing it. 

I don't know what else I can do asides from just give up completely. Au revoir. Be done with it. Because I'm obviously that much of a failure. Please don't reply to this. I'm not looking for compliments. I am just s failure. Full stop. I don't know where I'm messing up. 

80mg Clozapine and 7.5mg Imovane and the nurses are shocked that I'm still awake.


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## Cat Dancer (Jul 9, 2012)

Well, I'm going to reply anyway. What are some things you have learned in therapy that can help you now?


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## AmZ (Jul 10, 2012)

By the grace of God (possible to say), I am back in the open ward. I kept asking the nurses in the closed ward to call my psychiatrist so that I could speak with her. But she never came so my advocate, my sister, called to speak with her and said I've talked to nobody since I moved there on Saturday, I'm having a hard time in the closed ward (I know, consequences) etc. within 3 minutes my psychiatrist came to my room in the closed ward and gave me a nice smile and said 'did you miss us?' So I said yes. She said I just spoke with your sister and I can come back to the open ward. This place isn't for you. My roommate, at the time was being held down on her bed by 7 members of staff as she refused to receive an injection (her regular medication) so they did it by force. She was screaming, going crazy, very unpleasant to witness. I couldn't get out of the room quick enough as there were so many people in the way. 

We spoke about medications and a week ago, she mentioned about T3, so they still want to give it to me but I don't know why they're still waiting on it. But I'm waiting patiently.  



Cat Dancer said:


> Well, I'm going to reply anyway. What are some things you have learned in therapy that can help you now?



Not much to be honest. I did CBT for a couple of months with my first psychologist and she said I was 'too far gone' to get any benefit out if it do we stopped and until then all I've done is talk therapy. I learned breathing exercises but that's pretty much that. 

I spoke with the head nurse on my arrival back from the closed ward and she said she is going to give me a notebook where I write in the times I want to self harm, write down my thoughts and put it on a scale of 1-10. So free therapy from her!

Feeling much better coming back here but I know what has happened every time. I've come back from the closed ward feeling so much better and then I have a big dip again. So I am on guard.


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## Banned (Jul 10, 2012)

You are more than aware of your thoughts and feelings so I don't understand how you can be too far gone for CBT.  It IS work - hard work, but it's not rocket science either.  I had someone get me started with the basics and took it from there.  Wasn't a believer it would "work" for me but it works as much as you work it.  Was very instrumental in getting me back on track. If I were you I'd find someone who can help you continue to learn those skills because it's very apparent you either don't have them or don't use them and until you have and use them you're just going to keep repeating the same behaviours.


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## AmZ (Jul 10, 2012)

I'll for sure give it another go now. I am aware of my feelings i.e. anger but I most of the time don't see where the trigger came from. I think CBT can help with this, like writing out on a spreadsheet my feelings and the reasons for them
Etc. 

Pretty bad anxiety the last couple of hours. It started with the nurses checking my blood pressure and it kept giving an error signal so it took 5 times to do it until we succeeded.  The thing was tightening on me so much, it was making my arms go bright red and stopped my blood flow. Horrible. 

Then, I don't know why... The last 3 hours or so, I've felt faint and had very strong heart palpatations. I can't put my finger on what triggered me. Just generally everything I think. 

Anyway, I just got my "SOS" medication of 2mg Clonazepam so hope that'll help. Feel like I'm having a heart attack or something, God forbid.

---------- Post Merged on July 11th, 2012 at 02:34 AM ---------- Previous Post was on July 10th, 2012 at 09:13 PM ----------

Usual business. My weird 1am or 2am body clock waking me up. 1am today. I've slept for 2 hours. Have been
up for 1 1/2 hours.  I took 2mg Clonazepam before bed because I had anxiety but didn't take the Clozapine as I sleep no differently when I take it compared to when
I do take it. I just feel wide awake now. They gave me the 80mg Clozapine now in the hopes that it will help me to sleep the rest of the night. But I've done this so many times and it's never worked so I doubt it's going to happen now. 

That was the only pro about the closed ward, that they lock you out of your rooms at mealtimes and then open up again. But a majority of the day, you can be in your bed and I always caught an hour or two of sleep in the morning between breakfast and lunch. 

This insomnia is driving me crazy. 2 years of this now also. 

 ;(

---------- Post Merged on July 11th, 2012 at 04:41 AM ---------- Previous Post was on July 10th, 2012 at 09:13 PM ----------

4.30am and still awake. Went to the nurses office to tell them that the 80mg Clozapine did nothing and that I'm still awake. So they're putting it in the report which is read by all the psychiatrists, head psychiatrist, psychologists and nurses in the morning. 

Can't continue on like this.


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## Banned (Jul 11, 2012)

AmZ said:


> I'll for sure give it another go now. I am aware of my feelings i.e. anger but I most of the time don't see where the trigger came from. I think CBT can help with this, like writing out on a spreadsheet my feelings and the reasons for them.



That's a good start but hopefully you know that cbt isn't so much about documenting negative feelings but more about challenging distorted thoughts.  Initially it is very challenging but eventually you train your brain and it becomes more automatic.  Really basic example - you are driving your car and get to a really busy intersection.  It seems like you'll never get across all that traffic.  You get anxious and tense because you're saying to yourself "I'll never get across all this traffic.". Realistically, you will, so you need To challenge that thought by saying "well, traffic is busy and it might take a few minutes but I'll get across.". 

Search cbt on here and you'll find some fantastic resources.  You can document and take it to therapy and then maybe you'll start to learn something.  I'm intentionally not posting the links because I think its important that you start to seek out the resources instead of just omplaining that nothing is going right.


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## AmZ (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah. I know that it's challenging them (thoughts) too. I used to do a spreadsheet of automatic thought, percentage of belief in it, feelings about the thought, proof to support the thought, evidence against the thought, alternate thought, percentage belief in it alternate thought, feelings about the alternate thought, proof for, evidence against, etc.

---------- Post Merged at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:14 AM ----------

It seems that I have found out why they haven't changed my medications. They said that this hospitalisation I am 'less sad' so they've been debating about what to do with my medications. When I first arrived to the emergency room here, the psychiatrist said he doesn't think I have depression as I didn't break down crying. Then apparently he spoke with my psychologist and they spoke about it and then the psychiatrist agreed that I have depression. The social worker said this to me that the psychiatrists see me as 'less sad' this time and stronger and more angry than anything. 

Hello. Crying in my bed. I need to report every single time this happens so that they'll believe me. Crying in the day room with my head down on the table. The same with my sleep too. They want me to walk to the nurses office every hour and report that I am still awake. So I haven't been reporting the depression symptoms enough. It seems. They want to still give me T3 and I have a meeting tomorrow with all the staff and we'll discuss everything.  Then I guess I'll try and put across how I am feeling.  Communication is lacking.


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## AmZ (Jul 28, 2012)

5pm, Saturday evening (now) is by far the worst for me when I really want to self-harm. I have such an urge it's crazy. I think I'll do it and not tell anyone, but then
I know that gets me nowhere. Saturday nights are by far the worst. Like I could just get up now and do something.


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