# Swine Flu Bulletins and Information



## David Baxter PhD (Oct 1, 2009)

How To Tell a Cold From the Flu
_InteliHealth_
September 29, 2009

The common cold and flu - both the seasonal and the new swine flu -- are caused by different viruses but can have some similar symptoms, making them tough to tell apart. In general, the flu is worse and symptoms are more intense. 

*COLDS*: Usual symptoms include stuffy or runny nose, sore throat and sneezing. Coughs are hacking and productive. It's unusual to have fever, chills, headaches and body aches, or if present, those symptoms will be mild. 

*FLU*: Fever is usually present, along with chills, headache and moderate-to-severe body aches and tiredness. Symptoms can come on rapidly, within three to six hours. Coughs are dry and unproductive, and sore throats are less common. 

*Sources*: U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; Roche, maker of Tamiflu.


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## Banned (Oct 19, 2009)

*Swine Flu Bulletins*

CTV News | Swine flu vaccine could be approved this weekhttp://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...N1_pregnancy_091018/20091018/?hub=CalgaryHome


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## Banned (Oct 19, 2009)

*H1N1 Now the Dominant Flu Virus*

CTV News | H1N1 now the dominant flu virus, says expert


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## NicNak (Oct 26, 2009)

*What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*

*What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*
Centres for Disease Control and Prevention
_October 22, 2009_

You may have the flu if you have some or all of these symptoms:

fever *** 
cough 
sore throat 
runny or stuffy nose 
body aches 
headache 
chills 
fatigue 
sometimes diarrhea and vomiting
***It’s important to note that not everyone with flu will have a fever.

*What should I do if I get sick?*
If you get sick with flu-like symptoms this flu season, you should stay home and avoid contact with other people except to get medical care. Most people with * 2009 H1N1* have had mild illness and have not needed medical care or antiviral drugs and the same is true of seasonal flu.

However, some people are more likely to get flu complications and they should talk to a health care provider about whether they need to be examined if they get flu symptoms this season. 

They are: 

Children younger than 5, but especially children younger than 2 years old 
People 65 and older 
Pregnant women
People who have: 

Cancer 
Blood disorders (including sickle cell disease) 
Chronic lung disease [including asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)] 
Diabetes 
Heart disease 
Kidney disorders 
Liver disorders 
Neurological disorders (including nervous system, brain or spinal cord) 
Neuromuscular disorders (including muscular dystrophy and multiple sclerosis) 
Weakened immune systems (including people with AIDS)
Also, it’s possible for healthy people to develop severe illness from the flu so anyone concerned about their illness should consult a health care provider.

There are emergency warning signs. Anyone who has them should get medical care right away. 

*What are the emergency warning signs?*
In children

Fast breathing or trouble breathing 
Bluish skin color 
Not drinking enough fluids 
Not waking up or not interacting 
Being so irritable that the child does not want to be held 
Flu-like symptoms improve but then return with fever and worse cough 
Fever with a rash
In adults 

Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath 
Pain or pressure in the chest or abdomen 
Sudden dizziness 
Confusion 
Severe or persistent vomiting
*Do I need to go the emergency room if I am only a little sick?*
No. The emergency room should be used for people who are very sick. You should not go to the emergency room if you are only mildly ill. If you have the emergency warning signs of flu sickness, you should go to the emergency room. If you get sick with flu symptoms and are at high risk of flu complications or you are concerned about your illness, call your health care provider for advice. If you go to the emergency room and you are not sick with the flu, you may catch it from people who do have it 

*Are there medicines to treat 2009 H1N1?*
Yes. There are drugs your doctor may prescribe for treating both seasonal and 2009 H1N1 called *"antiviral drugs.” * These drugs can make you better faster and may also prevent serious complications. This flu season, antiviral drugs are being used mainly to treat people who are very sick, such as people who need to be hospitalized, and to treat sick people who are more likely to get serious flu complications. Your health care provider will decide whether antiviral drugs are needed to treat your illness. Remember, most people with 2009 H1N1 have had mild illness and have not needed medical care or antiviral drugs and the same is true of seasonal flu.

*How long should I stay home if I’m sick?*
*CDC recommends that you stay home for at least 24 hours *after your fever is gone except to get medical care or for other things you have to do and no one else can do for you. (Your fever should be gone without the use of a fever-reducing medicine, such as Tylenol?.) You should stay home from work, school, travel, shopping, social events, and public gatherings. 

*What should I do while I’m sick?*
Stay away from others as much as possible to keep from making them sick. If you must leave home, for example to get medical care, wear a facemask if you have one, or cover coughs and sneezes with a tissue. And wash your hands often to keep from spreading flu to others. CDC has information on *"Taking Care of a Sick Person in Your Home”* on its website at CDC H1N1 Flu |Interim Guidance for Novel H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu): Taking Care of a Sick Person in Your Home


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 26, 2009)

*Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*

Eastern Ont. child dies after H1N1 diagnosis
CBC News 
Monday, October 26, 2009 

A previously healthy pre-teen girl from eastern Ontario has died at an Ottawa hospital after being diagnosed with H1N1.

Dr. Paul Roumeliotis, medical officer of health for the Eastern Ontario health unit, said the girl had no pre-existing medical conditions when she was admitted to hospital, where she died over the weekend.

"My concern is that it underscores the importance that we put onto the potential complications of any flu, especially a novel flu like H1N1," Roumeliotis told CBC News.

"It is extremely sad to see the virus claim the life of a child," he added in a statement.

Officials are not saying exactly where the girl lived or how old she was at the request of her family.

It is the second death and the first death of a child linked to H1N1 in the area served by the Eastern Ontario unit, which includes the counties of Stormont, Dundas, Glengarry, Prescott, Russell and the city of Cornwall. A 52-year-old eastern Ontario woman died in June after testing positive for H1N1.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 26, 2009)

*How the flu virus invades your body*

YouTube - Flu Attack! How A Virus Invades Your Body


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## Banned (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: How the flu virus invades your body*

That is super cool.


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## Eye Stigmata (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*

I wasn't convinced about the H1N1 Flu vaccine before, but I spoke to my mom last night. She's a family doc and has been seeing cases of H1N1, especially in otherwise healthy 20 - 25 year olds who are currently in the ICU from it. Also pregnant women (pretty high risk) The H1N1 attacks your respiratory system, so anyone with any type of lung conditions should absolutely 100% be getting the vaccine, if someone already has a respiratory problem and then gets H1N1...well..chances of survival aren't very good.
So I think I'll be getting the vaccine after all... Doctors orders 

Symptoms:
*Major one is Fever
*Cough 
*Runny Nose
*Muscle aches/pains
*Headaches/Nausea

It takes about two weeks from date of vaccine to be fully protected.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*

The thing about H1N1 that is different from other flu varieties is that it attacks the young and healthy, not just the old and weak. Indeed, it is starting to look like the young and healthy may be *more* at risk, if anything.


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## Banned (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*

There has been a second death in Ontario, of a teenager:

Ontario teen dies from H1N1 - Canada - Canoe.ca


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## Eye Stigmata (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*

The nice thing about the health care system is that they are providing the shot for free, and holding all sorts of free clinics at various hours, I've seen some that are running from 2 -8 pm. So it makes it easy for everyone to get vaccinated.

It's a shame people are dying from this...especially such young people. 

** Also, if you do start to get a fever / flu symptoms and fear it could be the H1N1, you can go to an Urgent Care clinic and get Theraflu (I think that's how you spell it) And it stops the virus before you get really sick, but must be taken within 48 hours of experiencing symptoms otherwise it's useless


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## NicNak (Oct 27, 2009)

*Can My Dog or Cat Get H1N1 (Swine) Flu?*

*Can My Dog or Cat Get H1N1 (Swine) Flu?*
_About.com_

October 20, 2009 update: H1N1 News - Ferret Tests Positive in Oregon

Information about H1N1 (Swine) flu and how to protect yourself and your family is readily available.

But what about our dogs and cats? Can they catch or spread H1N1 (Swine) flu to each other or members of their human family? Most likely, the answer is no. This is to say that to date there are no known dog/cat to human (or vice-versa) influenza transmissions.

Care should be always taken to use proper sanitation and personal hygiene in all cases of illness, and especially for the ever-changing influenza viruses.

There are two types of influenza viruses: Type A and Type B. The Type A viruses are found in humans and many types of animals, usually strains specific to that species. The type B viruses circulate widely among humans1.

Dogs and cats do have their own versions of influenza viruses. The canine influenza virus is an influenza Type A H3N8 virus, and the feline version is Type A H5N1 influenza virus. (The numbers and letters after the type denote the numbers and types of proteins on the surface of the virus. The letter H stands for hemagglutinin and the letter N stands for neuraminidase.2)

*Related Reading:* New dog vaccine for H3N8 flu

*Who is spreading what virus?* It is interesting to note that birds play an important role in the spread of all influenza A viruses. From the CDC: "Wild birds are the primary natural reservoir for all subtypes of influenza A viruses and are thought to be the source of influenza A viruses in all other animals." Read more.

While rare, there have been human infections from pigs. In this current case of swine flu, a pig virus mixed with a human virus at some point in time to produce the new strain that is being passed human-to-human. This allows for quick spread of this virus in the human population. Because this is a newly created (reassorted) virus, humans do not have any immunity from previous exposures as with "regular" viruses.

*Back to dogs and cats.* While they both have influenza Type A viruses that can infect and cause illness in dogs and cats, humans are not as similar of a species to share these viruses in the current forms. There have been no reports yet of any cases that have spread to humans or from humans to pets.

Read more about influenza viruses in dogs and cats:H5N1 infection in domestic cats - from the CDC
*Summary:* "To date, there is no evidence that domestic cats have a role in the natural transmission cycle of H5N1 viruses" and "the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control has issued preliminary recommendations for cat owners living in H5N1-affected areas. These include keeping domestic cats indoors to prevent exposure to potentially infected birds and avoiding contact with semi-domestic and feral cats living outside the home." Report from the CDC

Key facts about Dog Flu - from the CDC
*Summary:* "To date, there is no evidence of transmission of canine influenza virus from dogs to people and there has not been a single reported case of human infection with the canine influenza virus. However, human infections with new influenza viruses (against which the human population has little immunity) would be concerning if they occurred. Influenza viruses are constantly changing and it is possible for a virus to change so that it could infect humans and spread easily between humans." CDC Key Facts Sheet
*
What about pet pigs?*
According to the AVMA Flu FAQ: "To date, the 2009 H1N1 virus has not been reported in pot-bellied pigs. However, the possibility of human-to-pig transmission of the virus warrants extra caution by pig owners."

*What about birds?*
In August 2009,  it was reported that turkeys in Chile were infected with the H1N1 virus. It is believed that, as with swine, the turkeys were infected by a human source. It is not known at this time if humans can be infected from birds.

*If your pet is sick*
As always, if you suspect that your dog or cat is sick, please contact your veterinarian directly for an examination and to discuss any questions. Always use good sanitation practices (wash hands, etc.) when dealing with animals.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 27, 2009)

*Know the Difference between a Cold and H1N1 Flu Symptoms*

Know the Difference between a Cold and H1N1 Flu Symptoms
_Daily Press_
October 21, 2009



Symptom | Cold | H1N1 Flu 
Fever  |  Fever is rare with a cold.  |  Fever is usually present with the flu in up to 80% of all flu cases. A temperature of 100?F or higher for 3 to 4 days is associated with the H1N1 flu. 
Coughing  |  A hacking, productive (mucus- producing) cough is often present with a cold.  |  A non-productive (non-mucus producing) cough is usually present with the H1N1 flu (sometimes referred to as dry cough). 
Aches  | Slight body aches and pains can be part of a cold.  |  Severe aches and pains are common with the H1N1 flu. 
Stuffy Nose  |  Stuffy nose is commonly present with a cold and typically resolves spontaneously within a week.  |  Stuffy nose is not commonly present with the H1N1 flu. 
Chills  | Chills are uncommon with a cold.  | 60% of people who have the H1N1 flu experience chills. 
Tiredness  |  Tiredness is fairly mild with a cold.  |  Tiredness is moderate to severe with the H1N1 flu. 
Sneezing  |  Sneezing is commonly present with a cold.  |  Sneezing is not common with the H1N1 flu. 
Sudden Symptoms  |  Cold symptoms tend to develop over a few days.  | The H1N1 flu has a rapid onset within 3-6 hours. The flu hits hard and includes sudden symptoms like high fever, aches and pains. 
Headache  | A headache is fairly uncommon with a cold.  | A headache is very common with the H1N1 flu, present in 80% of flu cases. 
Sore Throat  | Sore throat is commonly present with a cold.  | Sore throat is not commonly present with the H1N1 flu. 
Chest Discomfort  | Chest discomfort is mild to moderate with a cold.  | Chest discomfort is often severe with the H1N1 flu. 

The only way to stop the spread of the epidemic is to spread awareness.


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## NicNak (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*



NicNak said:


> People who have:
> 
> Neurological disorders (including *nervous system, brain* or spinal cord)



A curious question.  Do any of our conditons fall into the catagory of "Neurological Disorders (including, nervous system, brain) ?

I was just wondering.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*

A "neurological condition" refers to a disorder of the physical brain or physical nervous system, not "mental disorders" in general.


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## NicNak (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*



David Baxter said:


> A "neurological condition" refers to a disorder of the physical brain or physical nervous system, not "mental disorders" in general.



Ohh, ok. Thank you Dr Baxter.  I was curious when I read that, I wasn't sure.  Thanks for clearing it up.  I appreciate it.


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## Retired (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: What To Do If You Get Sick: 2009 H1N1 and Seasonal Flu*



> Neurological Disorders



Examples of neurological disorders would be Migraine, Parkinson's and Tourette Syndrome.

These disorders can either be "errors" in the wiring of the brain or malfunctions in neurotransmitters that affect body functions.

A listing of neurological disorders can be found at the NIH site:

Disorders Index: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)


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## Jackie (Oct 28, 2009)

*Re: Know the Difference between a Cold and H1N1 Flu Symptoms*

Diarrhoea or vomiting, are another two symptoms of swine flu you don't normally get with a cold.


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## why (Oct 28, 2009)

*Re: Previously healthy pre-teen child dies after H1N1 diagnosis*



Eye Stigmata said:


> ** Also, if you do start to get a fever / flu symptoms and fear it could be the H1N1, you can go to an Urgent Care clinic and get Theraflu



Tamiflu 
A shot of which, I may get in a couple of days. I had been fighting something for a couple of weeks, then yesterday, BAM, fever and nausea. So if they haven't calmed down by tomorrow, I'll phone my GP.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 2, 2009)

*FAQ about the swine flu vaccine*

Answers to the questions I hear most about the swine flu vaccine
by Dr. Marla Shapiro, CTV.ca
October 27, 2009   

It sure is a different flu season... wasn't that the understatement of this year! My office has been fielding calls for the past few weeks, but this week, with the opening of flu clinics, my phones have gone wild. Here are a few of the questions we have been getting, and my answers. 

*There is still much confusion over who can get the vaccine? can you get one when you?re sick?* 
Let's go through how this season is different. The seasonal influenza vaccine -- the vaccine that we typically have every year -- will not work against the prevalent strain that we are seeing circulating right now, which is H1N1. However, the seasonal flu puts seniors over the age of 65 at risk. For that reason, in most provinces across Canada, we are offering the seasonal flu to people 65 and older. If the seasonal flu takes more of a foothold in the circulating flu strains, then it would it be offered to everyone under the age of 65. 

At the present time H1N1 is the prevalent strain, and although in most people it tends to be mild, in certain groups it acts more aggressively. Those identified groups are: children up to 5 years old, those under 65 with chronic disease, and women in the second half of their pregnancy. Other high-risk groups include people in remote communities, health care workers and first line responders. 

We usually don't like to give you the vaccine if you are sick as then if you develop problems, it?s difficult to tease out whether those problem are from the primary illness you had in the first place or the vaccine. 

*Explain the issue between adjuvant and non-adjuvant?* 
An adjuvant is something added to a vaccine that boosts its immune acting powers. The adjuvant, usually made of water, oil and even vitamin E, recruits antibody-producing cells locally to the site of the injection. It is more immunogenic at the site of the vaccination and therefore a bit more of an ouch. We do have safety data on adjuvanted vaccines and in fact, we have been using adjuvants for quite some time with other vaccines. Adjuvants allow us to use less of the inactivated virus so the vaccine stretches farther to access more people across the country. Because it is more immunogenic it gives you more of a bang for the buck, so to speak. It offers you broader protection, so if the virus drifts over time and a new strain emerges, you may have some cross-protection to a strain not included in the vaccine. 

*What should pregnant women do?* 
Pregnant women in the second half of their pregnancy are more at risk of serious illness than the general population. Health Canada has just ordered more vaccines without the adjuvant. Women who are beyond 20 weeks into their pregnancy or pregnant women with underlying health conditions however have been told that if the non-adjuvant vaccine is not available, then they should not wait until it become available; they should get the adjuvanted H1N1 vaccine.

Last week, the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada also said all evidence suggests that adjuvanted vaccines are just as safe as non-adjuvanted vaccines. But the preferred version for pregnant women is the non-adjuvanted version because there hasn't been a lot of research on the use of the adjuvant in pregnancy. It now seems pregnant women will have the non-adjuvant vaccine available soon. 

*Is delaying the seasonal flu shot to patients doing more harm than good?* 
We?re delaying the seasonal flu vaccine because we are not seeing it circulate anywhere near the amount that H1N1 is circulating. Therefore it does not make sense to tie up resources giving a vaccine to a flu virus that, for most of us, is not a risk. 

The vaccine is available to most of us ? but is it too soon?  How safe is it? 

Every year the seasonal flu vaccine is new to us as well. What is not new is the flu vaccine technology. As well, this H1N1 vaccine is a great match for what is circulating presently. We also have a fair bit of safety data on this particular vaccine adjuvant with no red flags being seen to date. 

*Health officials are saying it?s irresponsible not to get the vaccine, what do you think?  Are there any side effects?* 
It is important to make an informed decision as to the risks and benefits. For example, a baby under 6 months is at risk but is not able to take the vaccine. So caregivers who could transmit the virus should get the vaccine to protect not only themselves but the vulnerable infant. This concept of being protected by other people's immunity is called the herd effect. 

There have been local reactions to the vaccine, as expected. Health Canada will continue to monitor and have surveillance for vaccine side effects. We do have data on this particular adjuvant and 150,000 have received this vaccine so far- again with no red flags to date. Another 41,000 or so have received this adjuvant without untoward effects. This is indeed reassuring. 

We are trying to make decisions with emerging information. While there are no guarantees, at the present time it is important to weigh the benefits and risks of preventing the infection and make an informed decision. For those who have died -- and more children have died in the US so far than in a full flu season -- having had the opportunity to have a vaccine for them could and would have saved lives. While the Australian experience for the most part was mild disease, there still were reports of severe illness, mortality and patients requiring prolonged ICU admissions. Again, each of us must make an informed decision. 

*A new awareness campaign started yesterday ? do you think it?s doing a good job of answering people?s questions?* 
Hopefully, it will debunk a lot of the nonsense circulating on the internet! 

*Are family doctors getting the information they need to answer patients? questions?* 
Family doctors are getting regular updates. Many have not stocked the vaccines because of logistical reasons. The vaccines are shipped in 500 dose shipments and many family doctors do not have fridge capacity to store them. In addition once reconstituted, 10 vaccines are available and must be used within a 24-hour period. For those with offices that have trouble coordinating 10 guaranteed shots per vial in a 24-hour period, there is concern about waste, so they have decided to leave distribution to clinics where waste can be minimized. Many of these logistical issues will sort themselves out and more family doctors are likely to be carrying the vaccines. 

*Finally ? other than vaccination, what can we do to protect ourselves from catching H1N1?* 
We have all the tools available that we have been talking about for some time. Wash your hands for an adequate period of time. Use a hand sanitizer if you do not have access to soap and water. Remember the 'sleeve sneeze' or into a tissue and dispose of the tissue. Remember to disinfect surfaces with a household disinfectant. And finally- stay home if you are sick!


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

*Some H1N1 clinics open to general public now in Ontario*

I got my H1N1 vaccine today.  Did you?  Are you planning to get it?


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm not eligible where I live (not in any of the designated high risk groups).  Even if I was eligible, I would not get it.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

Turtle said:


> Even if I was eligible, I would not get it.



So instead you'll get it and spread it?


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

Turtle said:


> I'm not eligible where I live (not in any of the designated high risk groups).  Even if I was eligible, I would not get it.



Here they just opened the clinics, just today to the public.  So you could be eligible.  Maybe they just have not opened up the clinics to the non-high risk groups yet.

Health Canada says there is going to be enough vaccine for everyone, if they would like to have it.

I feel perfectly fine.  I was a bit extra tired this afternoon, but I just have some muscle stiffness in the area of the injection.

I over heard a fellow talking in the store and he said the clinic in the mall had the vaccine, so I went there and it was not even a 10 minute wait.  :2thumbs:


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> So instead you'll get it and spread it?


By the time I'm eligible the worst of it will be over.  And if I do get it, I will go into hibernation until it's gone, so I don't infect anyone else.


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

I stand corrected.  It'll be available to all Albertans as of early next week.  So I will be eligible, but no, I still won't be getting it.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

Turtle said:


> By the time I'm eligible the worst of it will be over.  And if I do get it, I will go into hibernation until it's gone, so I don't infect anyone else.



I take it you either weren't there on the day of or slept through the class on incubation periods?


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## Andy (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm not getting mine either (as of now, I may change my mind). I am never around anyone anyways. I'm doomed to get the virus now that I said that.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

Did either of you see the movie _Quarantine_? or _Blindness_? or _The Andromeda Strain_?


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

STP said:


> I'm not getting mine either (as of now, I may change my mind). I am never around anyone anyways. I'm doomed to get the virus now that I said that.



Hi STP, I am not often around people either.  I was shocked when it was suspected last month that I had H1N1 because I am not around a lot of people.  I was already over the fever etc, but I had all the symptoms and had never had a flu before.

Even still I recomend it.  I think because I was not around many people it may have left me even more vunerable to it.  

I know it is hard to go to the clincs when it is busy, but I went during the day time, in the early afternoon.   I just happened to find a local walk in clinic that was offering it.  

I was out of the clinic within a half hour at the most.

I am thinking now that all the high risk folks are vaccinated that the crowds are leveled out a bit.   

The nurse stayed with me for about five minutes afterwards and I just waited 15 minutes in the waiting room before leaving.

As I said earlier, the only thing I noticed is I was a bit more sleepy this afternoon than usual and my arm hurts.  Aside from that I feel fine.

I would reconsider STP if you can get to a clinic.  Maybe even ask your GP if they are offering it.  Some of the larger doctors offices are apparently getting it.  My GP is in a solo practice so that is why she didn't get it.


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

No, I didn't see those movies. What did I miss?

Re the 1976 swine flu:



> Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.


 
(http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html)

Added:  I already have so many unnatural chemicals going into my body on a daily basis, I just can't subject it to more.  Just can't.


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## Andy (Nov 19, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> Did either of you see the movie _Quarantine_? or _Blindness_? or _The Andromeda Strain_?



No. I haven't seen any of those movies. Oh wait. Is Quarantine when all the monkies or a monkey is infected with ebola or something?


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

Turtle said:


> No, I didn't see those movies.  What did I miss?
> 
> Re the 1976 swing flu:
> 
> ...



1. Stop listening to ill-informed anti-science celebrity conspiracy theorists from the shallow end of the cerebral gene pool. Those aren't critics. They're from the same town that is still fighting teaching evolution in the schools.

2. That's utter BS. More people than that die from regular flu every year. And there have already been numerous deaths from the current H1N1 epidemic, most of them otherwise healthy young to middle-aged individuals without preexisting health conditions.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

STP said:


> No. I haven't seen any of those movies. Oh wait. Is Quarantine when all the monkies or a monkey is infected with ebola or something?



I think that's _12 Monkeys_.


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

Turtle said:


> No, I didn't see those movies. What did I miss?
> 
> Re the 1976 swine flu:
> 
> ...



To add other stats to this artical regarding the other Swine Flu Pandemic, Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918



> 1918 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish Flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly influenza A virus strain of subtype *H1N1*





> The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920, spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. *It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide which is from three to seven times the casualties of the First World War (15 million). An estimated 50 million people, about 3% of the world's population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), died of the disease. An estimated 500 million, or 1/3 were infected*.



I find these stats to be more scary.

Yes, we are more hygenic. But we are also a larger population now and we are more mobile.


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

Er, I don't believe in evolution either (as it was taught to me) so I guess I'm one of "those" people.  Oh well, if I get H1N1 you can be happy that there's one less of us roaming the earth .


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## Andy (Nov 19, 2009)

NicNak said:


> Hi STP, I am not often around people either.  I was shocked when it was suspected last month that I had H1N1 because I am not around a lot of people.  I was already over the fever etc, but I had all the symptoms and had never had a flu before.
> 
> Even still I recomend it.  I think because I was not around many people it may have left me even more vunerable to it.
> 
> ...



I see maybe 2 or 3 people every 2 to 3 weeks. I haven't ruled it out yet but, my friend got it and ended up with severe fluid in her lungs and was very sick. As for clinics, there are 5 make-shift clinics. I don't think any actual dr. offices are giving them until all the clinics are done (I may be wrong). Anyway, I am not going to any of those places by myself. 
Maybe if they offer it in the Dr.s office afterwards I might have gone but my Dr. is on sick leave.


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## Daniel (Nov 19, 2009)

The Oprah Winfrey Show is ending in 2011, so for those of us who won't survive this flu season, at least we can rest in peace knowing that we were able to watch most of her shows.  :teehee:


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## Andy (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm taking every episode with me to my grave. :sorry: Damn she's good.


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## Banned (Nov 19, 2009)

Well isn't that just like Oprah - trying to top the rest of the world that's ending in 2012.

See, if I die from H1N1, I want prime cemetary space, before everyone else goes in 2012.  It's all about strategy.
(Actually I'm being scattered, but anyway...)


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

Daniel said:


> The Oprah Winfrey Show is ending in 2011, so for those of us who won't survive this flu season, at least we can rest in peace knowing that we were able to watch most of her shows.  :teehee:



:smack:  Get your vaccine Daniel.

I tend to think you have more to offer than Oprah :friends:  I want you to around longer than 2011.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

1976 swine flu outbreak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> The 1976 swine flu outbreak, also known as the swine flu fiasco, or the swine flu debacle, was a strain of H1N1 influenza virus that appeared in 1976. Infections were only detected from January 19 to February 9, and were not found outside Fort Dix.[1] The outbreak is most remembered for the mass immunization that it prompted in the United States. The strain itself killed one person and hospitalized 13[citation needed]. However, side-effects from the vaccine caused five hundred cases of Guillain–Barr? syndrome and 25 deaths.





> Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to Guillain-Barr? syndrome



2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Annual influenza epidemics are estimated to affect 5–15% of the global population. Although most cases are mild, these epidemics still cause severe illness in 3–5 million people and 250,000–500,000 deaths worldwide.[13] On average 41,400 people die each year in the United States based on data collected between 1979 and 2001.[14] In industrialized countries, severe illness and deaths occur mainly in the high-risk populations of infants, the elderly, and chronically ill patients,[13] although the swine flu outbreak (as well as the 1918 Spanish flu) differs in its tendency to affect younger, healthier people.



*20th century flu pandemics* 


]Pandemic | Year |  Influenza virus type |  People infected (approx) |  Deaths worldwide (est.) |  Case fatality rate 
Spanish flu |  1918–19 |  A/H1N1 |  33% (500 million) |  20 to 100 million |  >2.5% 
Asian flu |  1956–58 |  A/H2N2 |   ? |  2 million  | <0.1% 
Hong Kong flu |  1968–69 |  A/H3N2 |   ? |  1 million |  <0.1% 
Seasonal flu |  Every year |  A/H3N2, A/H1N1, B |  5–15% (340 million – 1 billion)  | 250,000–500,000 per year  | <0.1% 
Swine flu |  2009 Pandemic |  H1N1/09 |  >503,536  | 7,296 (confirmed; ECDC); ≥6,250 (WHO) | ?


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

NicNak said:


> :smack:  Get your vaccine Daniel.
> 
> I tend to think you have more to offer than Oprah :friends:  I want you to around longer than 2011.



If you believe all the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists, you're probably also assuming that none of us will be around after 2012. That's probably why Oprah is retiring, given that she showcases Jenny MacCarthy and Suzanne Somers.


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

People do not realize this is the same strain as the Spanish Plague of 1918.  I have been on a soap box with my friends trying to explain this too.

1918 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The statistics are very scary.  

The reason I personally got it, is I have two close realitives with severe heart conditions.  My hope is that I would not spread it to them.  

I figured, if I couldn't figure a way to get the vaccine for my own good, I should do it for the protection of others.

So I take a shot in the arm and have a bit of an ache.  If there is even a slight chance that myself being vaccinated helps save people from dying from this then I should.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 19, 2009)

Exactly. See the table in my post above.


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## NicNak (Nov 19, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> If you believe all the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists, you're probably also assuming that none of us will be around after 2012. That's probably why Oprah is retiring, given that she showcases Jenny MacCarthy and Suzanne Somers.




Maybe Daniel can take over Oprah's show after she leaves.

Simply named:  Daniel.

He can feature you Dr Baxter instead of Dr Phil.  

Daniel could turn the entire talk show world around  

Help save everyone from the conspiracy theories :teehee:


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## Andy (Nov 19, 2009)

To be fair, people also were not as healthy back in 1918. 
Just saying.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

STP said:


> To be fair, people also were not as healthy back in 1918.
> Just saying.



Look at the death stats for the Asian Flu and the Hong Kong Flu. That wasn't 1918.


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## NicNak (Nov 20, 2009)

STP said:


> To be fair, people also were not as healthy back in 1918.
> Just saying.



That's true STP, but another thing to consider is also we move around much more and our population is a lot higher.

Many virus' do mutate over time and get stronger.  Such as Chicken Pox, TB etc.  

The H1N1 actually seems to be attacking healthy people more and causing what is caused Cytokine Storm.  So folks with healthy, strong immune systems seem to be the most vunerable.  So being more healthy seems to be more of a detriment.


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## Andy (Nov 20, 2009)

Hasn't medicine improved immensely since 1970 though. Therefore healthier people? Most of the people that have died in AB have been people who had other conditions.

I don't really agree or disagree. Just saying what popped into my pea brain.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

Surveillance - H1N1 Flu Virus - Public Health Agency of Canada

FightFlu.ca/H1N1 Flu Virus - Government of Canada, Public Health Agency of Canada

Key Facts on H1N1 Flu Virus - H1N1 Flu Virus - Public Health Agency of Canada


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## Banned (Nov 20, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> I take it you either weren't there on the day of or slept through the class on incubation periods?


 
I've been trying to find the answer to this, and the only article I could find said 2-7 days.  Is that what you've heard as well?


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

You missed the point, in any case. It doesn't matter whether it's 2 days or 20 days: By the time you know you have it, you've already spread it.

By the way, your dogs can get colds and flu from you too, you know.


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## Daniel (Nov 20, 2009)

> By the way, your dogs can get colds and flu from you too, you know.


Wow, the drama continues, but the drama seems rather undramatic, especially for dogs:



> Recent media reports of the 2009 H1N1 influenza (swine flu) virus cases in companion animals have many people concerned for the health of their pets. Here's what The HSUS has confimed about such cases, and what you can do to protect your pets from getting sick.  *
> 
> Ferrets and cats affected*
> At the end of October, a USDA laboratory confirmed a Nebraska ferret died of H1N1 infection. Around the same time, three ferrets living in one Oregon household were also diagnosed with H1N1 infections.
> ...


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong but all that says is that there are no confirmed cases of dogs getting H1N1, only cats and ferrets. 

But it does not say that dogs can't contract H1N1. And given that 


pets don't complain as much as humans when they're sick,
pets are not generally covered by health insurance, so
pets are less likely in the average household to be taken to the vet than human family members are to be taken to doctors
I would guess that statistics on H1N1 with respect to any and all pet species are probably quite understated.


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## Banned (Nov 20, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> You missed the point, in any case. It doesn't matter whether it's 2 days or 20 days: By the time you know you have it, you've already spread it.
> 
> By the way, your dogs can get colds and flu from you too, you know.


 
Ya I know dogs and cats can get it.  Kind of interesting when you think about it.  Last year we had a major dog flu go through the daycare - half the dogs were out with it.  We've been ok so far this year.


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## Banned (Nov 20, 2009)

David Baxter said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but all that says is that there are no confirmed cases of dogs getting H1N1, only cats and ferrets.
> 
> But it does not say that dogs can't contract H1N1. And given that
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you on all those points, except that my dogs do have health insurance.  After Jessie's $13,000 vet bill that I'm still paying for I got insurance on Brody and Jonah.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

Turtle said:


> I agree with you on all those points, except that my dogs do have health insurance.  After Jessie's $13,000 vet bill that I'm still paying for I got insurance on Brody and Jonah.



You're not the average pet owner, though. You're not even the average family member. Unlike the average person, you'd be more likely to take one of your dogs to the vet than you would be to take yourself or your mother to the doctor. :huh:


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## Banned (Nov 20, 2009)

Heck no.  Why settle for average?


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

*H1N1 Vaccine as Safe as Seasonal Vaccine, WHO Says*

H1N1 Vaccine as Safe as Seasonal Vaccine, WHO Says
by Emma Hitt, PhD,  Medscape Medical News 
November 19, 2009

*The H1N1 2009 pandemic influenza vaccine appears to be as safe as the seasonal flu vaccine, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).*

About 1 adverse event is being reported for every 10,000 doses, said Dr. Marie-Paule Kieny, director of the WHO's Initiative for Vaccine Research, at a virtual press briefing today. Of those adverse event reports, about 5 of 100 are considered serious.

According to Dr. Kieny, serious adverse events so far include 30 deaths and about 12 cases of Guillain-Barr? syndrome; *however, she emphasized that none of the deaths reported to date has been confirmed as being caused by the vaccine*. In addition, all cases of Guillain-Barr? syndrome have been transient, and only a few have been linked to the vaccine.

Dr. Kieny added that there appears to be no difference between the safety profile of the seasonal and pandemic influenza vaccines, and the number of adverse events is comparable between the 2 vaccines. In addition, the safety profiles of the different forms of pandemic vaccine are also similar.

*Adverse reactions associated with the pandemic vaccine include a variety of local reactions including "pain at injection site, swelling, redness, and reactions such as fever, headache, muscle pain, or fatigue," Dr. Kieny said. "These generally resolve within 1 or 2 days."*

"No new safety issues have been identified from reports received to date," she said.

At least 80 million doses of vaccines have been distributed and 65 million doses have been administered. "These are figures that we have received from 16 countries, but we think they are conservative estimates because immunization campaigns are under way now in 40 countries," Dr. Kieny added.

The WHO expects to start shipment of the vaccine to developing countries at the end of this month. According to Dr. Kieny, this represents a slight delay, but they expect that all vaccine doses will reach 95 eligible countries during the next 3 months.


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 20, 2009)

*H1N1 intensifying in Canada but subsiding elsewhere: WHO*

H1N1 intensifying in Canada but subsiding elsewhere: WHO
CBC News 
Friday, November 20, 2009 

H1N1 appears to have peaked in parts of western Europe and the United States, but transmission continues to intensify in Canada, the World Health Organization said Friday.

"In Canada, influenza transmission continues to intensify without a clear peak in activity," the UN health agency said.

Doctors visits for flu have been most common among children age five to 19 in Canada. The number of visits continues to exceed average rates for the past 12 flu seasons.

*At least 6,770 deaths have been recorded worldwide since the H1N1 influenza A virus that causes swine flu emerged in April, according to the WHO. The agency reported 520 such deaths in the past week.*

Spread of the flu appears to have peaked in western European countries, including Belgium, Britain, Iceland and Ireland after an intense period. 

Norway and countries farther east such as Georgia, Lithuania, Moldova and Serbia are showing sharp increases in flu-like illnesses.

Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and parts of Afghanistan, particularly Kabul, reported higher numbers of flu cases.

Flu transmission remains active in East Asia, including in Japan, where flu activity remains elevated but stable.

*Mutation in Norway reported*
WHO also said Friday it is investigating samples of mutated H1N1 virus linked to two deaths and one severe case of H1N1 flu in Norway, but so far, the significance is unclear.

"Although further investigation is under way, no evidence currently suggests that these mutations are leading to an unusual increase in the number of H1N1 infections or a greater number of severe or fatal cases," WHO said.

Norway's Institute of Public Health announced Friday that "the mutation could possibly make the virus more prone to infect deeper in the airways and thus cause more severe disease."

The mutation was found in three of 70 cases of swine flu, said Geir Stene-Larsen, the institute's director.

No additional instances have been detected, which suggests the mutation is not widespread in Norway, the WHO said. The same mutation has been found in fatal and mild cases in Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine, and the United States.

More clinical and epidemiological data is needed, said WHO spokesman Thomas Abraham.

Antiviral drugs continue to work against the virus with the mutation, and studies show current pandemic vaccines offer protection against it, both the WHO and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

*Separately, health officials said four people in North Carolina have tested positive for Tamiflu-resistant swine flu.*

It is the first cluster of this size in the U.S. The four cases were reported at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, N.C., over the past six weeks.


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## NicNak (Nov 20, 2009)

The Mutations are scary and same with the Tamiflu resistant strains.  

I use to cringe when one of my friends use to run to the doctor with a cold and say "look the doctor gave me the super strenght medication, cause I have a 'respiatory infection' this will knock it out of me in a few days, it's all good"   

She would get this medication about twice a year.

The reason I cringed is because they brought out these anti virals and stronger antibiotics because of SARS back then and the resistant strains of TB that were going around.

Again this is why I personally avocate vaccines so that our bodys can fight them off.   Then if needed ofcourse there are those "super medications" but I found my friend seemed to take it for granted that it was available and her doctor, in my layman opinion way over prescribed it.


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## Banned (Nov 20, 2009)

sigh...I'm almost...almost...considering getting the vaccine...


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## Andy (Nov 20, 2009)

lol I'm not, still.


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## NicNak (Nov 21, 2009)

I just wanted to come back to this thread to say, I got my H1N1 yesterday.  

My arm was sore yesterday and is not so bad today.  All I have today is a headache (which could be barometric pressure cause I get headaches with that too)  and my throat seems to be dry, but aside from that, A-ok


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## Jackie (Nov 21, 2009)

BBC News - Swine flu jabs 'still important'

Outbreak of Tamiflu resistant swine flu in Wales UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8370859.stm


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 24, 2009)

*6th H1N1 death in Ottawa*

6th H1N1 death in Ottawa
CBC News 
Tuesday, November 24, 2009

A sixth person has died from swine flu-related illness in Ottawa since September.

Ottawa public health reported the death on its website on Monday. The health department did no release details about the age or sex of the victim or say whether the person had an underlying medical condition.

According to the health department's website, the H1N1 influenza A virus that causes swine flu has been found in 404 people in Ottawa since the beginning of September. Of those, 164 people were admitted to hospital.


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## unionmary (Nov 24, 2009)

Mass inoculations scare me ever since I watched "I am Legend" Will Smith....and plus i believe it interferes with your natural body immunities?  

Do I have a point there?  I eat well and am healthy overall, can't I take care of it within my own self?


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## Banned (Nov 24, 2009)

I think it really comes down to a personal choice and your comfort level and how much risk you present.  We all have some level of risk, but if, for example, you are a kindergarten teacher your risk level of both catching and transmitting it is much higher than someone who is not in contact with children...if that makes sense.

I've done alot of thinking about it and have decided that at this point I will not be getting it.  I was really back and forth on the weekend, but have decided against it.  Partly because half my students had it, but were still coming to class or bringing their dogs to daycare.  I think I've had alot of exposure to it and so far I've been ok so I'm going to hold off.

One thing I was wondering though, that maybe Dr. B can answer - if you get it once, are you considered immune or can you catch it again?


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## unionmary (Nov 24, 2009)

I would guess you would be immune....apparently this virus has struck twice before too, so I am thinking I may have been previously exposed.

"good doctor dude" help us out?


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## David Baxter PhD (Nov 24, 2009)

unionmary said:


> Mass inoculations scare me ever since I watched "I am Legend" Will Smith....



Mass deaths from the unvaccinated scare me a lot more. Remember polio? Smallpox?



unionmary said:


> and plus i believe it interferes with your natural body immunities?



No, it does not. The vaccination contains a dead virus. This mobilizes your body's immune system to create antibodies to kill or disable the virus, just as it would do if you actually caught the flu but less painlessly and more quickly.



unionmary said:


> Do I have a point there?  I eat well and am healthy overall, can't I take care of it within my own self?



No. Only by catching it, assuming it doesn't kill you. And bear in mind that unlike most flu viruses this particular strain seems to kill the young and health, not the old and weak.



			
				Turtle said:
			
		

> I think it really comes down to a personal choice and your comfort level and how much risk you present.



I don't agree. It's not just about your own health. It's also about the health of those you may come into contact with during the incubation period if you get the virus. When it comes to a pandemic, I don't think it's a personal choice at all, unless you're a completely isolated hermit who doesn't mind dying alone. Smallpox was eradicated because the vaccinations were compulsory for anyone attending school or travelling.


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## David Baxter PhD (Dec 3, 2009)

*China protects pandas from possible H1N1 pandemic*

China protects pandas from possible H1N1 pandemic
By John Platt, _Scientific American_
Dec 3, 2009 

*Cats can get the H1N1 virus. So can dogs, ferrets and (obviously) pigs. But what about endangered species like giant pandas (Ailuropoda melanoleuca)?*

China isn't waiting around for an answer. Last week, the panda section of the Shaanxi Wild Animal Rescue and Research Center was closed to visitors and to most volunteers after a surge in human H1N1 cases in the area. Only the center's five full-time panda caregivers and two veterinarians are now allowed to enter the pandas' living quarters. "For safety considerations, they have to wear masks and gloves before entering the panda houses," deputy security chief Jin Xuelin told the Xinhua News Agency. Even these approved staffers are being tested for flu symptoms twice a day to further protect the animals.

Unlike China's other three panda centers, Shaanxi is also home to 21 pandas belonging to the recently recognized Qinling panda subspecies (A.  melanoleuca qinlingensis). The pandas have "smaller skeletons, larger cheek teeth and traces of brown instead of the typical black and white [markings] for other pandas," according to Xinhua. There are only about 300 Qinling pandas in the world, compared with around 1,300 of the more common giant pandas.

Officials say Shaanxi could reopen to visitors in the spring, once flu season is over. Until then, watch out for ferrets.


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## Daniel (Dec 3, 2009)

Two dogs test positive for H1N1 in China


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