# What to do i dont know .



## forgetmenot

My daughter is in hospital again  this time she almost got hit she was running in front of traffic main road where she lives very busy street.  

Anyways she is suicidal so she is in hospital Psychiatric unit now been in hospital since Thursday evening. 

 Sorry i dont know what to do anymore no one seems to want to follow up with her medication changes. 

 I want to know will i do more damage by going to see her is this interfering i dont know anymore 

 I was thinking about calling again that is hard for me to do i have tried now but each time i hang up phone 

 i want to go see her even knowing i will be affected by doing so  she needs to know someone is there right  or am i wrong  

  I don't know anymore what to do 

 Both her and my twin are very unstable with the death of my mother  i do not know i am uncertain about anything i do.  I certainly don't want to interfere with any care that she may get.
so hard  omg  Maybe just call right i dont know


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## GaryQ

I think you should follow your heart and listen to it. You’re the only person who is really constantly looking out for her. Don’t stop now please.


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## forgetmenot

ok  then i will call the floor and see if ican talk to her

 Why is so hard to call uggg but i will. I do feel no matter what someone deserves to have someone  that never gives up on them right.


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## forgetmenot

uggggg just talked with her let her know that she need to speak up and ask for help to get meds regulated  but also if they will not help her to call me not go to the streets.  I pray that someone steps in and reassesses her medication it needs to be reassessed that all.     Tired now will wait until she calls me back  i should sleep for a bit  i did not sleep at all last night and if i am to drive i need to sleep some but i am glad i called her  Thanks GaryQ for helping me thanks


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## GaryQ

That’s the best you could do for now. And yes time to rest for you!


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## Daniel

Does she have any interest in therapy?   Or does she usually think therapy is hopeless or stupid?

I know in the hospitals here they provide little in the way of individual therapy.  It is mostly groups.


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## David Baxter PhD

When you feel up to it, it might be helpful to go to the hospital and speak to the ward staff while you are there. Let them know that your daughter needs to have her medications updated and monitored - that it's not really that she is noncompliant bur rather that she doesn't know what to do or how to ask for help with her medications.

Maybe you're husband could go with you to support you?


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## forgetmenot

My daughter believes in therapy she will be starting dbt with pinewood therapist. 

 I am waiting to hear back from her they might just discharge her i dont know 

 I have talked with her Community team about followup with medication changes and reassessment of her medication already but they help her when she is out of hospital and it is up to her team to talk to her Psychiatrist because she is not able to do it herself.

   If she calls me again i will ask to talk to her nurse there it all depends what the doctor does tonight if they decide to keep her or not.   

 Unfortunately my hsb will not support me in that way. 

 He has walked away long time ago from all of this.  

 You are right in saying it is not that she is non compliant is that she gets overwhelmed because she does not feel anyone is listening to her  so why try. 

 I feel for her there because it seems no one wants to listen anymore. It is very frustrating that no one seems to follow through  with medication changes,  blood levels etc.  I have brought that up with her team as well.


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## GaryQ

FMN, Did you manage to get a bit of sleep?


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## forgetmenot

Not sleep but i lied down for an hour

  i will crash probably later  but Grandkids are coming over i just heard as grandpa birthday is tomorrow.

  I hope now my daughter does not call because i will have to leave  if she is discharged

 i hope they keep her until tomorrow when her ACT team will be available to support her and also deal with any medication problems as well


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## forgetmenot

Girl called they are going to keep her until doctor sees her tomorrow now 

 i will go down to see her tomorrow at noon i hope have bank appt in morning to deal with. 

 Got a list of things to bring her lol pepsi, coconut water, ice cap and fruit apparently she get juice and sandwich morning noon and supper that it when you are in emergency so she is not eating.  

 I will bring her some fruit and yogurt, some salad  all has to be cold no hot foods rules. 

  So hopefully will be able to stop off grocery store somewhere and get that stuff on the way through. 

Im tired now  exhausted grandchildren sure can wear one out

. Hopefully i can talk to nurse tomorrow re adjusting meds having her go inpatient but i am not holding my breath.


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## forgetmenot

I finally crashed got 6hr sleep yes  still tired a bit but slept   I have to somehow not let myself dissociate today when i go into that dam lock up to see my daughter .  it is very triggering to be there  i  hate  i just hate being locked in anywhere i hate it. 

 Will try so hard to breath slowly and focus on what needs to be done  for my girl.  I also pray that the nurse that was there before is not there today.  I pray the nurse will just listen and report what i said to the doctor.  I have to get moving lots to do bank appt first  get gift for hsb today his birthday and grocery store get girl things and get down to the city and then back. uggggg traffic lots of it  just breath that is all i can do is just keep breathing slowly right.  One thing at a time  Dam i dont understand why the mentally ill have to be locked up in boxes it is so dehumanizing.

ok im off thanks for listening i will be ok i have to be ok  just want them to listen get my girls meds readjusted and do follow through with lithium blood levels.


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## GaryQ

Thanks for keeping us updated FMN. Really glad to hear you slept. Sadly, you have to remember that although the lockup seems dehumanizing it is to protect her from harming herself. What I don’t get is why they always let her go back out so quickly without her being fully stabilized and actually ready to leave. I guess the fact she has that ACT team probably doesn’t help in that situation. Stay calm, yet firm and most of all stay safe today.


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## David Baxter PhD

Unfortunately, there are two reasons for why that happens:

1. no Ontario government has put any funding into mental health facilities in at least the last 20 years, probably 30 years; and

2. our current laws, put in place to protect individual rights, effectively mean that after  72 hours, unless she is an *imminent* risk of harm to self or others (and the emphasis is on imminent, i.e., immediate), or agrees to stay on as a voluntary patient (assuming they even have the beds for involuntary patients which is rare), they have to release her.

The reality is that once they have the patient on medication, the Imminent risk clause disappears, at least until the medication wears off. And many mental health facilities simply don't have the beds or the staff to keep voluntary patients due to years and years of underfunding. And because these places are so dreary and overcrowded, not many patients will agree to stay on as voluntary even if there were a bed available.


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## forgetmenot

im home  i got to talk to a male nurse he was very kind and calm very calm much needed and stated my concerns.   Daughter said they were going to release her today but she asked them to reassess her meds so it seems they will keep her for now anyways .  The psychiatrist that talk to her this morning i have such high regards for one of the best really.  I hope he can help her i truly do hope he will step in and reassess her meds i hope.  I was asked to leave after only an hour there some rule stating only 2 visitors are allowed in lock up at a time  seeing i was there for an hour i was asked to leave.  If i ever came into alot of money  i would create a facility that the ones that are suffering from mental illness could go to and just talk and be HEARD  BE HEARD LISTENED TOO  and helped  that is all they want is help.   Tired now really being locked up is not good  i dont think it is good for anyone.


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## GaryQ

It’s great to hear she actually asked to stay and have her meds reassessed. 
I was totally not expecting that. 

There’s a picture of a tree that I took in Newfoundland... I have to find and post it on my Cross Canada Trip thread. You remind me of it. When I find and post it sometime soon with my comments I think you’ll understand why. 

She’s safe for now so time for you to rest and recover a bit. 
As Dr. B. Always says: you have to take care of yourself or you won’t have the strength to keep taking care of everyone else!


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## forgetmenot

Yes i was very impressed with her asking to stay until her meds were reassessed now i hope they do that for her.  Yes time for me to rest yes some holding everything in right now i think if i could sleep it would help some   I look forward to seeing the picture of your tree you saw  resting now


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## Daniel

> And because these places are so dreary and overcrowded, not many patients will agree to stay on as voluntary even if there were a bed available.



I was at a place like that once in my late teens.   Was so ready to get out I told the doctor I felt "like a million dollars." All my depression had turned to anxiety being there.  And then felt relief getting out after seeing the doctor.


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## David Baxter PhD

I can well imagine. I worked in some of those places years ago. Some are pretty grim.


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## forgetmenot

The whole process is dam ridiculous  it really is  was told yesterday they would keep her evaluate her meds.

  TODAY i get a call from her they are releasing me her pdoc does not want to sign form to get her diagnosis reevaluated 

 i guess she asked if she could get a second opinion on her diagnosis he did not like that. 

  So they gave her double valium and released her to the streets  they did not even wait for me to come pick her up. 

  I got there could not find her again i start panicking  saw some nurses i use to work with ask them to keep an eye  out for her  

 i hate this i really do because they dont give a dam about the people they really dont  

 To give someone with addictive personality  not only valium but ativan just to keep her sedated what a joke. 

 I finally found her in the park passed out from meds lying on the grass  helped her back to my vehicle phone her act team let them know she was with me. 

 So tired of trying  she was told if she wants another opinion from Whitby psych about her diagnosis she would have to get another doctor to fill out the application form.  would it have hurt him so much just to give her that choice to help her be at ease at what her diagnosis really is

she has had so many diagnosis and even if she is wrong about what she thinks she has at least she is taking interest in herself and her health.  I
am just grateful i found her and she is with me now away from that place   I am sorry but it is not a good place it is not.


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## David Baxter PhD

It is indeed sad, @forgetmenot. It's hard to understand how any of that helped anyway.



> TODAY i get a call from her they are releasing me her pdoc does not want to sign form to get her diagnosis reevaluated
> 
> i guess she asked if she could get a second opinion on her diagnosis he did not like that.



Was that what you were told by staff at the hospital, FMN?


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## forgetmenot

That is it Dr Baxter it does not help they sedate her so much on drugs she should not have  then send her to street after i have asked them please please just call me. 

 I dont understand the system that when she asked to stay to get reevaluated the answer is no  usually she shows no sign of wanting to change but this time the sign was there.

I am grateful for her ACT team i am they give her support they do i just faxed the prescription to them who will send it to her pharmacy they will see her tomorrow. 

 I informed the secretary on phone  i am not sure i will give her any meds tonight  hate giving meds when sedatives are given on top of them but i will evaluate that later on tonight.  
Why say she can stay and get help then take it away 

Sorry she has the form here the nurse gave her for Whitby Psych that she has to ask another doctor to fill out 

  Her release prescription was filled by her own pdoc so he did talk to the nurses there. 

  It is ok  it really is ok  she is safer here she is.

  In order for her to go to Whitby psych she was told she would have to be admitted to the psych floor in hospital and her doctor did not want that either.  I do understand that i do .


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## David Baxter PhD

I don't know. The whole thing does seem a bit reckless.


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## forgetmenot

It is very reckless knowing her history but i guess that is not their concern  their job is to sedate her i guess and the did that for sure.  When i talked to the male nurse last evening i was told they would evaluate her meds and they would be keeping her.   Her pdoc did make some changes to her meds dropped antidepressant up her lithium and um dropped her sleeping pill and put her back on seriqual hs.   Let see how that works ugggggggg Gone are the days when they kept patients when med changes were being made just so they could be watched more carefully but in a way it makes sense because her behavior


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## forgetmenot

sorry i meant to say her behavior should be watched in community not in hospital.


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## GaryQ

forgetmenot said:


> ...but in a way it makes sense because her behavior



I'm sorry but I don't agree at all. *It does not make any sense at all.* Easier and more convenient for them to not deal with the issue and let her ACT team deal with her, pushing the problem on to someone else, removing the need to actually work to help someone that has complex issues maybe... And yes it is irresponsible and reckless. We have thousands of people on the streets of Winnipeg because of that same Mental Health Stigma. I'm sick of it and sick of hearing about helpless people abandoned to themselves and sent to the streets without being properly taken care of just because they are "problematic" and or "regular customers" There is no justification or excuse for it. And yes it is one of my "triggers" and it makes me sick to my stomach. If they weren't "problematic" they wouldn't wind up there in distress needing help in the first place. 

Imagine what would happen to the same girl if her mom wasn't FMN?

I had an actual "Happy, Joyful day" today. Driving home from the city I was all alone and for once in a heck of a long time I felt a sense of hope and joy. And also at the same time I felt really happy that she had decided on her own and asked to stay for help. In my mind I was at peace knowing she would be safe at least for a bit... Then I come home and read this. 

(Not your fault FMN so don't feel bad for sharing it. I appreciate the fact that you did)

I'm OK, I just needed to get that off my chest 
​


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## forgetmenot

It is ok GaryQ i knew in my heart they would not help her i knew this. 

 It was hard for me working at this hospital because i saw the abuse the mentally ill were given. 

 It is a trigger for me too.  There is no justice for how they are treated. 

 I ask the same thing what happens to the ones that have no family to protect them what happens to them.

  They are pushed to the streets to fend for themselves I am tired now

  My girl will ask another doctor to fill out the form to get into Whitby  

she just wants to be heard thats all. 

 I understand her pdoc not wanting to get a second opinion no doctor wants that but to me she is showing interest in her health so why not encourage it.

  I am afraid to take her back to her apt tomorrow i am afraid ok dam it but it is her wish i really hate this i do. 

 Not just her ok but my twin my brother they need help they need a safe haven a place they know they can speak what is in their mind and not be judged. 

 Yes she has addictive disorder and she has schizo effective disorder and borderline disorder and bipolar but who the hell cares really  they dont understand ok. 

 She is not an illness i don't care what label they give her  she is not an illness  she is my daughter she is hurting dam it.

  She has no cause and affect  she does not have it  she only sees in the moment that is what makes everything so hard. 

 I do hope her Pinewood worker starts the DBT treatments soon i do hope they do not give up on her with that because of this admission. 

 Please don't be mad but i wish i could keep them all with me 

 They need to be kept safe they do from their decisions their minds. 

 No one understand i cannot get them to understand and i have given up trying to talk to anyone

  i just keep praying and praying for a miracle really because i am afraid of what will happen to them when i am gone  I am so afraid for them.


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## forgetmenot

GaryQ it will be ok  somehow it will be ok.


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## GaryQ

forgetmenot said:


> … i am afraid of what will happen to them when i am gone  I am so afraid for them.



then I guess you just stuck sticking around for a long, loooong time


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## forgetmenot

It is what keeps me here when i am so low  i know i cannot leave them i cannot give them more pain then they are already in.


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## GaryQ

Well, they say you need a reason to keep “keeping on”. I think unselfish Love is a pretty good “stick arounder” reason


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## forgetmenot

So sad so sad  this is what happens when one is released from hospital and not stable.  She asked for help she ask for second opinion but was shot down by her psychiatrist she asked.   

 Now she is back in emergency  tired now so tired she asked for help dam it.   We were on our way down to pick her up but got a phone call saying ambulance came and took her to hospital.  
We turn around and came back home only because if we went she would not get any help they would have just signed her out to us.   I don't know what to do anymore  and i don't know if turning around was the right thing  i am just waiting now for a call. 

 I pray someone with intelligence with compassion will somehow get her the help she needs.  please please.


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## David Baxter PhD

☹️

Far too much revolving door psychiatry these days.


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## GaryQ

I just can’t wrap my head around it all. 

She has a community action team... what do they actually do to help her? I don’t think it’s much or this wouldn’t happen. Who is her advocate? 

Why not take the big step and go public about the whole story? What’s the worse that could happen if you told her story to someone that would probably love to hear it like CBC’s go public?

Something has to be done to help and protect her especially from these heartless bastards (sorry for the harsh words FMN) that just throw her out on the street every time.

I know it’s hard but Hang in there. Big hug


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## David Baxter PhD

Going public could very well make her a pariah in the system and leave her worse off for care than she already is. Plus, no one should make that decision for FMN’s daughter; only her daughter has the right to do that. 

It’s not like there hasn’t already been years of activism and years of complaints about staffing and programs and physical buildings. When it comes to tax dollars, (1) most mental health patients probably do not vote and politicians are very aware of that; and (2) the demands for dollars for mental health are just not as exciting as fancy new transit systems in the public eye.


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## forgetmenot

Ya it will not change going public  they did the same to my brother who dam it yes left at age of 40

   i am afraid now she is in hospital i am afraid because they cycle wont end 
  Shove her full of sedatives  not listen to her if they listened they would hear her mind is racing it never stops it never stops and she asked for help she asked to  get another opinion but it was denied. 

 I dont know what to do now but to be there when she is released again  

  Her community care team drops off meds three times a week  stays a few minutes to watch her take them. 
 She calls them when under distress it is up to the doctor to make the decision to hospitalize her while going through all these meds changes but he wont. 
 I will not go public everyone knows read the reviews on this hospital they are mostly negative.  

 Mental health no one really cares how much someone is suffering internally  you are labelled you ARE judged uggg cannot go there anyways just waiting for a call  she just called omg she was out all night she did not stay  and now umm she does not want anyone around her im tired i dont know what to do im tired.


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## Daniel

Is she seeing a therapist at Pinewood soon?


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## forgetmenot

I found her she has been with me all day  does not see Pinewood worker until Wednesday.  I took her to my beach today and whether she likes it or not she is staying here for long weekend  she is staying here with me i can keep her safe. Also got the form for whitby  and gave it to her GP to fill out he is away until Sept 4 but i hope he will help her get into Whitby to get further assessment.  We are not questioning her psychiatrist ok we just want a second set of eyes  maybe they will see something he has not like they did with her cousin.  He is stable now omg he is stable and she sees that and wants the same.  Hope is her GP will fill out the forms so she sees some hope.  Like said i will do my best to keep her with me as long as i can.


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## GaryQ

That’s great news!
now you can have a less stressful long weekend without wondering where she is.


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## forgetmenot

Set up a tent for her on our property and dad made a camp fire  she just wants to have what other people have that all 

 i will go down later and see how she is doing 

 i hate the dark lol i hate it but i will phone her first then try to go down and see how she is doing


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## forgetmenot

lol i drove down i cannot walk in dark i brought her cup of tea and sat by fire with her for awhile then had to come back inside she is safe there ihope  lots of coyotes out here but she has her phone and fire going  she is happy that is the main thing. LOL i will up all night though worrying about her out there phone is by my side if she needs me she will call.


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## GaryQ

forgetmenot said:


> LOL i will up all night though worrying about her out there phone is by my side if she needs me she will call.



LOL You're supposed to rest now that she is home with you! :facepalm:


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## forgetmenot

I know but she is out there in a tent and i am in here god i wish i could be not so afraid 

 i am so happy she is here i am  and she is camping just afraid of darkness  and she is in it.  

she has camped before on her own on the property  wish she just come inside here  that all.


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## David Baxter PhD

I know what you mean but that sounds funny - phoning someone who's out camping in a tent. 

Only a few years ago that would have been impossible except with two tin  cans and a long string.


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## GaryQ

David Baxter said:


> I know what you mean but that sounds funny - phoning someone who's out camping in a tent.
> 
> Only a few years ago that would have been impossible except with two tin  cans and a long string.



Haha! You know you're getting old when 50 years ago is "Only a few years ago!"

We had walkie talkies when I was a teenager over 40 years ago 

FMN... she'll be fine and probably sleep like a baby in the peacefulness of the open air. Alone in her own little space but still real close to mama


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## David Baxter PhD

GaryQ said:


> Haha! You know you're getting old when 50 years ago is "Only a few years ago!"



Now now... it wasn't 50 years ago. I had a pager in 1997 and didn't get my first cell phone, a Nokia flip-top I think, until 1998.

I suppose I could have said, "A spell back..."


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## GaryQ

Tin can and string David... yes OLD friend it’s been a long long long time!


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## Cat Dancer

You all are in my thoughts. She's very blessed to have you as a mom.


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## forgetmenot

Thanks CD  i just brought her to emergency this morning i took her to the hospital in Peterborough

  i did phone her crisis line at CMHA to let them know how unstable she has become since discharge on Aug 24.   They just stopped her wellbutrin xl and her trazadone cold turkey and her mind is just racing crazy and her body wont sit still  she has not slept in two days and i know because i have been there with her.  Her eye movement is everywhere twitching  
    I hope being at new hospital they wont judge her but um listen to her 
 The doctor there is going to keep her overnight do some medication changes  and i was so pleased to see that they gave her seriquol to slow her mind down did NOT shove her full of ativan and valium like the other hospital did then release her home to come off it all. ugggg  Also ran a cardiogram and did blood work.

 They are aware she was just released from the other hospital and was suicidal then  and i gave them discharge orders from there and what happened   Just want someone to slow her mind down that all so she can rest new hope maybe taking her to a hospital up here where i am.  

She may get to rest now with help of this hospital and i will know she is safe even if it is only for one night that will be ok. 

i ask them to call me before releasing her and not to give her meds to her but to me on release.   One day at a time   I am going to try to sleep now try.

It so hard knowing there are people like my daughter that do not have a voice or help  it hurts me to know they are fighting a wall of judgement and a system that like said has no financing to help people who are mentally ill.


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## GaryQ

Good thing you had decided she was coming home with you for the long weekend. Hope she’ll get better care at this hospital.


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## forgetmenot

Ya she had no choice in coming home with me I sort of made it happen. 

 i just knew someone needed to be there when all hell broke out with all the med changes and coming off the sedatives. 

 You know what hurt was hearing the doctor say to the staff members we dont want to get stuck with her.  She heard it and so did I they did not realize we could hear them. 

 I tried to lower the pain she was feeling by telling her it was because she was not in their jurisdiction he did not want to get stuck with you not because of you.
  Anyways just grateful he is trying to change meds a bit and keeping her there to watch her.

  One has to be so careful when talking about a pt. that their voices are not being heard.  

She has not called i hope she is sleeping now the nurses appear to be very kind that helps alot.


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## GaryQ

forgetmenot said:


> You know what hurt was hearing the doctor say to the staff members we dont want to get stuck with her.  She heard it and so did I they did not realize we could hear them. .



Where did this happen at this hospital you brought her today?


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## forgetmenot

Yes at the hospital i brought her too this morning.  Whatever right he is keeping her overnight that is all we wanted help to make her mind stop racing.

 Hope he can help with this

  He did have some thoughts that perhaps it was the other med she was on making her mind go fast now that she was off the antidepressant and sleeping med  just hope he can help. 

I  won't pretend it  still doesnt hurt those words but let it go concentrate on the fact he kept her and is giving her some hope.


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## Daniel

forgetmenot said:
			
		

> You know what hurt was hearing the doctor say to the staff members we dont want to get stuck with her. She heard it and so did I they did not realize we could hear them.



People can get away with so much, especially doctors.

At the group home company I worked for, a single statement like that would be an instant fire.   There was zero tolerance.


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## Daniel

Regarding some doctors:

"That's a nice idea, that doctors have no time to be polite. So how do they find the time to be insulting? It looks good on paper, that they are naive or innocent, but it doesn't hold up to reality. I think they just like seeing how far they can go before people are ready to slap them."

- Anonymous


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## GaryQ

Thankfully there are still some doctors that are kind and compassionate. My GP and My vascular specialist are awesome doctors. My cardiologist is great but lacks bedside manners but at least he’s a great cardiologist.Sadly though seems there are far too many that have lost touch with reality and what their professional purpose is. To help the sick.


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## Daniel

Yeah, I used to work years ago for a group of six surgeons.  They were all nice except the plastic surgeon.  He would sometimes go into narcissistic  tantrum mode when talking to the office manager.


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## David Baxter PhD

I see several doctors fairly regularly these days and I have to say that they are all excellent and very humane.

I had several hospital admissions in recent years too and I only ever encountered one female resident - she was just plain nasty, power-tripping as she did her rounds with a flock of junior residents. Interestingly, she showed up one day with her boss, the real doctor, and her entire demeanor changed. She was just a bitch.

I must also say that all but one of the nurses I encountered over the years were just amazing, again really compassionate and professional. The one exception was just lazy and inattentive. She put in a catheter incorrectly and then left the ward on a supper break. The pain after a few minutes was excruciating and they had to redo it. The head nurse was involved in that and I heard him say to another nurse something to the effect of you just don't do that. You stay around until you have give time to check that everything is okay before you take off on a break. On that occasion, I think I was there for about 10 days and I never saw her again. I don't know if she was fired or just reassigned but she certainly didn't come back on the ward.


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## GaryQ

I’ve also had mostly good care in the hospital visits for medical reasons. Except one idiot of a cardiologist after an angiogram that thought reaming me out like a little kid for smoking after 3 heart attacks and the triple bypass was anything new. Oh and one dr. In emergency ward thought I was just looking for narcotics when I went in after one nurse injured my sciatic nerve during one of my testosterone injections. Trust me that hurts like crazy! Took over 6 months for the pain to fully subside and over a year before I got feeling back in the back of my left heel. 

Seems the psychiatric side of doctors and nurses is not as “compassionate” in the hospital environment. You’re often treated as a child or an idiot that they are stuck babysitting against their will. Like seriously pick another field if you have no care or compassion for the mentally ill.


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## GaryQ

Any update on your daughter FMN?


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## forgetmenot

After working in the field for 35 years it got hard seeing the changes in professionalism.  There were many kind professionals there were but so many we just outright cruel to the pts emotionally anyways. 
 One nurse in psychiatry that should not be there she needs to be fired the one that used her power to so badly and emotionally attack others. 

  Anyways  just got a call from my girl  she says they will probably discharge her today.  I figured that they would just get her mind to stop racing and then release her.  I dont know for sure yet  but they gave her seriquol lots of it and a prn of something else i think a clonazepam  but she got to rest anyways for a night.  Waiting for her to let me know when to pick her up.    

It only takes a moment to be kind to say something encouraging to give someone hope  and it only takes a WORD or group of words also to hurt someone inside so much and that hurt never leaves. 

 I dont know why someone is allowed to get away with what they do with all the cameras available to ensure patients saftey they must see why is someone in charge does not step in.  

I just hope her stability will stay now i hope some changes were made to help her stay stable until she sees act team Tuesday and also sees her Pinewood worker Wed.  I also pray her GP steps up and gets her into a place like Whitby psych that will help her maintain stability.


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## GaryQ

Thanks for the update. You should try keep her with you for a while to make sure she’s stable.
keep up posted


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## forgetmenot

(Like seriously pick another field if you have no care or compassion for the mentally ill. )  Agree totally


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## forgetmenot

Ya she will stay here today for sure hard to keep her here i think she has meds until wed so hopefully she will stay up tomorrow too.  Will promise to take her to the beach if she stays up.  wish she would call.


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## forgetmenot

Just got the call they want to keep her an other night to observe more that is good yes 

 i am going to bring her a change of clothes hairbrush toothbrush and more on her list  and a pumpkin spice latte if timmies is open i doubt it   glad they are observing her some more and trying to get her mind from racing


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## forgetmenot

It was good to hear that they are being kind to her and understanding  she says they all seem to truly care.
  LOL though the doors there have the big bubble window like something out of the 50s it was a jump back in time for sure.  She like them she says she feels more secure no one bothers her when she is in her room   

They gave her mandalas to color and allowed her to keep her phone so she can listen to music   Did not snow her and then lock her up like the other hospital did.   She is being treated like a human being here not an animal.  i think i will sleep better tonight hearing how kind they all are.


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## forgetmenot

Update iknew something was wrong could not get a hold of her this morning so went to hospital and ugggggg she tried to run she does not know why she said she felt claustrophobic in the small room  she was happy when we were there she was quiet coloring no signs of  distress.  The nurse said she just got so anxious and this is what she does she tries to run.  Anywyas the security guard took her down now her ankle is all swollen and they are awaiting xrays to be done.  They moved her to inpatient ward more room for her to breath and will keep her a few more days she apologised for what she did but honestly she has no control  she really doesnt when her mind triggers like that she runs and runs.   Maybe somebody is helping her not to run but slowing her down some with this ankle now.  She is so impulsive so dam impulsive  the doctor will try to change her medication a bit more so hopefully something helps    Tired now home again going to try to rest.


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## GaryQ

At least she’ll be there a few more days and hopefully feel less anxious. Hope you manage to rest knowing it wil be impossible for her to try to run in inpatient ward. Better safe with a swollen ankle than managing to get away!
maybe this doc will find a way to stabilize her some.


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## Daniel

Yes, I trust there is some silver lining there as well.

Though i don't believe everything happens for a reason, I find it helps to think so anyway.


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## forgetmenot

Things happen because they happen  no reason  just happen she has not called me so maybe the xray did not show anything maybe it is just sprained or maybe it did not even get xrayed yet.  I really wish she would call but i will find out tomorrow. 

  I am not knowing what to do but tonight i will stay home  tomorrow  uggg being pulled in so many directions so many   If i get up early enough i can take care of bro and twin then get back to see about daughter  or maybe i just will not go anywhere it will have to be decided tomorrow.  

I do pray honestly theyfind somehow to slow her mind down to take the racing thoughts away so she can think clearly and not be so impulsive.

overwhelmed with all of it  with all of them  overwhelmed when will it stop  when will it all stop. it never is going to stop is it and that is when my mind goes to the place it should not go but it all seems so dam hopeless.


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## Daniel

Regarding overwhelm or caregiver burnout:

Caregiver Stress and Burnout: Tips for Regaining Your Energy, Optimism, and Hope

Support for Families and Caregivers | CMHA Ontario

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/policy-dose/articles/2016-03-01/mental-health-caregivers-are-essential-and-endangered

Providing Care for the Caregiver  | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness


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## Daniel

> or maybe i just will not go anywhere



Sounds good to me.


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## Daniel

Mindfulness “reminds you that you matter! It nudges you to be kind and gentle, nonjudgmental, and compassionate with yourself. It can help you prioritize, set limits, stay true to yourself, and ultimately feel more at ease during the caregiving journey.”

- Nancy L. Kriseman


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## forgetmenot

Thanks Daniel  i took care of my brother got up early and got him things he needs and took him out for his milkshake and burger  I chose not to do more then that this morning i am tired  i will go see my daughter in afternoon   one thing at a time  resting now


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## Daniel

I do think more men need to step up into the caregiver role so that it is more of a team effort.  That has been  happening but not enough. (My mother got burned out and then rightly insisted that my dad help more with taking care of his own brother.)


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## forgetmenot

It seems that most men turn away from this role.  He has three brothers left but they do not want much to do with him.  It is ok if i can get him transfer out of the place he is in he will have  more caregivers at the nrsg home and i will be able to step away some for awhile.  I pray he gets out the place he is in soon.  It is not a nice place but it is safe where no one can take advantage of him.  Just saw my girl i pray also this new hospital will keep her and continue to help her stabilize  they truly care about her what a difference i tell you why can not all hospitals run this way.


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## GaryQ

Sorry if I haven’t been around for a few days. Been a bit disconnected. Glad to hear they kept your daughter and that they seem to want to help her. Hope she’s still there. Sorry to hear you’re getting overwhelmed by all the people you care for. One day or even one hour at a time! 
:support:


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## forgetmenot

Hi GaryQ Hope you are starting to feel better sorry you are feeling disconnected. 
Her doctor seems to really want to help her.
  She on the other hand her mania is very high she is agitated very easily and seems very juvenile at times.
  We took her out for supper like walking on eggshells  with her but we got through it. 
  She always pushes the limits always with staff with rules with us.   

Dr gave her a weekend pass i told her we we will try it  but if it does not go well the nurse gave me the unit number we will see.  
 The staff all seems so patient with her they do not judge her omg i really wish all hospitals were like this one.
  Nurse reminded me that it is her illness not her when she strikes out  and the same with my twin.
  It seems they strike out at people they are comfortable with.   Praying her mind settles down her mania slows down some now with med changes 

I do like that fact they are not using sedatives on her but using psychotic meds for prn breakthoughs. 

 I think there is hope now pray that she stays now until she is fully stable.


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## GaryQ

That’s a great start. I think the lashing out is not really towards people they are comfortable with but more people they know will suck it up and accept it and won’t retaliate. Like when a child tests the boundaries to see how far they can go. Hopefully slowing down her mind will help. Hope the weekend goes well for everyone!


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## forgetmenot

Dam tears maybe one day if i had too  i would choose this place for help  maybe i don't know their compassion seems real. 

 Feels really hopeful to see there are still really caring professionals out there.  

Hoping they do not transfer her back to that other hospital. Dr said  he had to call them as she is out of jurisdiction but he doubted it because they are always to full to take pts in. 
I am just taking one day at a time trying not to get hopes up too high but so grateful for what they are doing.


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## GaryQ

That out of jurisdiction thing is weird. She lives in Ontario has an Ontario health card should be able to get help anywhere in the province. Let’s just pray they don’t have room at her normal “in and out the next day” hospital so she can stay where she is and continues to  get the compassionate help she needs and deserves for a change!


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## David Baxter PhD

What hospital is she in now, FMN?


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## forgetmenot

Unfortunately hospital called Heather is still testing those boundaries.   She is very high mania  If i don't go and take her out there will be actions on her part to make me regret not taking her. 
 I have decided to try the pass  informed nurse hsb will be coming with me to take her out .  Also informed her i will be setting boundaries with Heather if things start going bad i will be taking her back   Always something always.  The staff seem to understand Heathers mind how it works  they are seeing a side that many getting upset with and angry with  but they are being understanding  I hope they dont give up on her.


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## GaryQ

Thanks for the update FMN. Understanding is the first and most important step so I guess we can say they made more progress in a short period than with all her previous stays at the other place. It’s hard to find that balance between being a loving protective mom and settling boundaries. 

Don’t forget it’s not a cake; there’s no exact right recipe for caring and loving. You just need to follow your heart and never lose hope. I’m still hanging on so you have to hang in there’s also


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## forgetmenot

She lives in Bowmanville so has to go to Oshawa Hospital
 She is in Peterborough Hospital by me  i took her there last Saturday it was all too overwhelming for me anymore.

  i have her here now on a pass  she is not changing she is still very high mania and this is day 6 she has been there.
   She said Doctor may discharge her Monday omg  Nothing seems to be touching the mania.

  They have now put her back on seriquol xr at night time as well as immediate release at night and um Lithium night and and morning now split it up. and prn med which i gave her at 430 before leaving hospital Olanzapine  2.5 to 5mg  i gave her 5mg   The mania is not subsiding.

She has a swollen ankle and she is still running on it she does not even feel pain but at least here she is on soft grass  hoping she can just run some of this energy off.


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## forgetmenot

just tired just so sad no change no hope


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## David Baxter PhD

What's happening now?


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## forgetmenot

She got an hour pass from hospital  did not return at 6pm  got a call from hospital looking for her  called and called and called drove around city for two hours  could not find her.

  Nurse finally called me said they talked to her and she was on other side of city east side told me where she was.
  I went there a found her   she said she was walking to Montreal  walking to Montreal. 

  This was one of the reasons i took her to hospital in first place because she kept having thoughts of walking to these far places and she would just disappear for the day no one could find her. 
 She would not answer her phone i begged her to call me  i told her i was losing control to please call me.  i dont know if this is the mania or the schizophrenia  the nurse could not tell me either.  she said she is getting discharged wed   no change in her thoughts but her talking has slowed down 

  she is so irrational at times she really believed she could walk to montreal. when i found her she just did not want me to be mad at her 
 i returned her to hospital after looking for her for over 2 hours. 
 I dont know how to keep her safe  not with her mind telling her to up and leave all the time.
   She walks and walks for hours all day even on  a injured ankle that is swollen it wont heal  she just walks and walks to these places she thinks she can reach.   No change and i dont know how to keep her safe.  Sorry  i really am sorry i just get so lost i get so anxious  i dont want any harm to com to her  and i know it will if i dont find her


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## Daniel

Does the hospital test for recreational drug use upon returning to the hospital?

(For a short time, we thought my brother had schizophrenia, but it was apparently his drug use causing/triggering episodes of psychosis --  leading to loitering and getting arrested.)


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## GaryQ

Daniel said:


> Does the hospital test for recreational drug use upon returning to the hospital?



Good Question

I'm just thankful you found her FMN. Sad they are releasing her though without stabilizing her


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## forgetmenot

Yes they test her  she was not drinking or using  she was still high mania or it may be her adhd  or her schizophrenia i dont know i am not a doctor 

 i think after last night and seeing the way she behaved today they may keep her longer
  she is so so so agitated so angry burst  so agitated 
 i dont know what is wrong  she is not using not drinking  she is just wound up like a spinning top or better yet a tornado

  i am so tired now  i really do not want this anymore and i am sure she does not want to be this way  something is wrong with her i wish they could find out what is causing the anger the built up agitation i dont know  

  I wont say what is on my mind  i will see therapist tomorrow  just wish there was a way to end all this once and for all.


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## GaryQ

Hey FMN, how are things going for your daughter (and you)?


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## forgetmenot

This doctor is trying all he can to get my daughter stable he is at least trying.  She will be discharged i believe this monday  but in one last attempt to help her with this impulsiveness he is going to try an adhd medication as well.  His words wouldn't it be great if it did help her.  I hope it does take away agitation and built up energy   this weekend will be hard as she wants to go to some cabin with a guy she met off the floor  i don't and won't allow it but it will be a fight  thanks Gary Q for checking up with me.


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## Daniel

They should hire you at the hospital as part of their crisis team.


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## forgetmenot

I guess the social worker is saying how my daughter is leading the discussions in group therapy  She has NEVER spoken up before never so i think putting her back on seriqual has helped.
 They do not see psychosis in her  well that being said she is on psychotic med now and she is feeling safe in hospital surroundings. 
  He is amazed at her responses her ability to help others.  I told her she would be a great peer support worker if and when she becomes stable herself. 
I did enjoy working i did on all the units in hospital but i will not ever go back again my need is here with family and i am not and i don't think ever will be strong enough to work again.   I have told this team at this hospital they are amazing wow if i got to work with such a team i would be so very proud to work with them.   They should be a role model for all hospitals to follow.  They use kindness and patience and understanding i never once heard anything cruel said to a pt  i never once saw aggression toward a pt.  omg what a difference.    I am actually not afraid to enter into this place like i was at the other hospital.   The patients are treated like HUMAN beings  they are listened to and given respect  they are given choices .  As said i don't think i would be afraid to reach out for help here if and when time comes.  I know i would not be judged here.


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## GaryQ

Thanks for the updates! Best of luck for the weekend  Keep us updated


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## forgetmenot

Yikes storm here high winds almost got in an accident it would have been my fault  but thank God i stopped in time.  Well the guy she was to go out with did not get a weekend pass oh thank the lord.  here we are having heavy heavy rains and winds my girl is out running in it  still a little hyper.  Her adhd med was increased today so hopefully it kicks in soon and i was given prn meds as well if she get to aggressive i can use them  so far so good though.


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## GaryQ

Great to hear he didn’t get a pass. One thing less for you to worry about this weekend!


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## David Baxter PhD

forgetmenot said:


> Yikes storm here high winds almost got in an accident it would have been my fault  but thank God i stopped in time.  Well the guy she was to go out with did not get a weekend pass oh thank the lord.  here we are having heavy heavy rains and winds my girl is out running in it  still a little hyper.  Her adhd med was increased today so hopefully it kicks in soon and i was given prn meds as well if she get to aggressive i can use them  so far so good though.



Same weather here. Even a tornado warning,

So your daughter is with you on a weekend pass?


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## forgetmenot

Yes my daughter is with me on the weekend pass  and i am letting her run in the rain the wind it is where she wants to be.  I will not use the medication unless i need to  i only will give it to her if she gets aggressive.  I am glad she is with me omg  i wish everyone would see this is where she is safe why can they not see this.  i want more then anything to have her here with me always.    I am grateful she is with me this weekend she belongs here.   the social worker is the first one to actually say what i have seen all along.  She is stuck as a 14yr old child  she is stuck there and i told him why she was i can't say it but that is when the trauma happened.  I don't know how to get her unstuck but i hope and pray somehow he does.


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## GaryQ

Hey FMN, how was the weekend? Are they letting her go or keeping her some more?


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## forgetmenot

Weekend went well actually i see signs of improvement less agitation for sure and she actually socialized with family for once she did not go upstairs and hide in her room.

 The pdoc has increased her lithium again as her level was only at 6 he wants it to be at 7 and increased the adhd med as well.
  I noticed today she was jittery, her legs were jumping so i think metformin is making her sugars run low. 
 i gave her some food that went away.  Informed the nurse abt it.

  The plan for discharge is now this Thursday.  I was suppose to take twin to look at new retirement places up here on that day  so will have to re-book it  i guess or get her up here tomorrow.
  Anyways the daughter i knew is coming back slowly she is interested in art again still as active as ever though but her thoughts are now logical. Thanks GaryQ for asking  I am glad to see you have rebooked your test and i hope all goes well then.


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## forgetmenot

I know i know don't worry right  don't worry  but it is so hard now they say Wed dishcharge maybe 

 That is day i see therapist on but whatever happens happens if i have to cancel i do.

  I just cannot shake the anxiety the worry of her being on her own again and if her pdoc will stand by the new orders or not.

 My thoughts never leave me  i fight the sadness inside and the want for it all to end.  I fight it because it is not right to destroy others by leaving. 

 That being said i am so sad not dealt with anything since ma leaving.  I am hopeful for my daughter  because someone cared for her at this hospital they cared they listened and if all  falls apart if her pdoc does not follow the prescription of meds the doctor up here orders  then somehow i will have to get her moved up this way. 

 omg  i really do want to leave but i can't i can't do it. anyways  the pdoc here upped her adhd meds again because her hyperactivity is still high  not as agitated but still very high 

 Why wont these emotions leave me alone  why.

 All will be ok keep saying that all will be ok  now let hope all will be ok.


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## GaryQ

Seems like today is overwhelming for you. I did notice something special without you mentioning it:
She kept her promise she made not to go to Toronto  
Isn’t that awesome? I think so!

Yes if her pdoc doesn’t follow through with her you should try get her close to you so she could hopefully get better care like she has had this last while. 

I’m hanging in there so you tell those negative thoughts in your head to get lost! 

:support:


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## forgetmenot

Ya  wasn't that great she kept her word  she stayed home  she did good.  ''Thanks GaryQ glad you are hanging in there  thanks for being there for me.
and yes i will tell those negative thoughts to lay off.  Just being so attacked by other things and it makes me want to leave it makes me want to not deal with it all but i will concentrate on positives for my daughter  and just pray all will work together now her act team and pdoc all will work together to keep her well.


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## GaryQ

You also forgot to mention yourself, probably the most important person on her team! 

And yes it  was great that she stayed!


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