# Self-pity, the source of mental illness?



## BluMac81 (Nov 19, 2008)

So I recently had a conversation with someone on youtube, basically along the lines of an argument of nurturing kindness to help people with mental illnesses (my view) versus tough love and, just being 'tough' to help them (his view.)  His letter, though horribly worded, incited some contemplation in me regarding this matter.  I admit that often when I cry, or see other people cry, I sense a great amount of self-pity behind it.  The self-pity possibly stemming from a comparison of one's life to another's (better) life, and in that not appreciating the good in one's own life.  There might be something to this because in this information age we are so overwhelmingly provided with images of those more fortunate than us (though equally those less fortunate, they tend to get ignored for the sake of self pity), and in countries that don't have such information technology, they are not subjected to this notion of 'what life should be' or 'how much better life could be', so they therein appreciate what they have, and attain happiness in that.

Here is the post, I'd appreciate your comments and insight on this theses. 



> people are always running around feeling sorry for them selves boo hoo dis boo hoo that and while they are busy feeling sorry for themselves they dont see the good around them because people like you are given them suport for being miserable... in this world... the real world you have to put your happiness first... if dont you'll be miserable and make other around you miserable.. i know people that dont have nuttin to eat back in brasil.. no job no hope for the future all they have is the ability to make themselves happy... and they didnt get that way by people tellin them fairy tails their happy because they were able to see they good in a bad situation... now days kids and teen dont even have the courage to live... because they were made soft by others... if you not willin to do what it take to make youself happy why are you living at all.. what for what.. to be accepted you have to accept yourself first and make peace with youself.. if all you get is lemons make your self a nice cold lemonade


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## Mari (Nov 19, 2008)

H! BlueMac, coincidentally, today I have had that basic argument/discussion going on in my head but not in terms of mental illness - just life in general. Right now I am siding with the quote although I do think that kindness and tough love can go hand in hand. In North America, I think that a large number of people do have the time and luxury to indulge in self-pity. The majority of the people in the world are too busy worrying about survival to even think about self-indulgence. I do not think that self-pity has anything to do with the source of mental illness although self-pity might slow down the healing process. 





> to be accepted you have to accept yourself first and make peace with youself


 Something to think about there. :heart: Mari


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## white page (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi BlueMac,

I read your post with interest ,the term  mental illness covers such a huge span of disorders , your friends point of view covers maybe persons who are suffering from reactional depression or transitory blues , certainly no "tough love" can be applied to  the many pathological mental disorders.  There is no hierarchy in suffering , our "developed" capitalistic system by it's insistance and pressure on material success leaves many souls by the wayside , the break up of close supportive family groups leaves many persons in affective and social isolation , which in itself often leads to severe clinical depression , "tough love" is the last thing to prescribe in that situation.  Compassion and kindness however do help. 

Your friend is right when he says care  , respect and have compassion for yourself  first , by knowing yourself deeply you will know the potential of all mankind .

I don't know how it is in your country , but therapists here have to undergo a therapy themselves before they can begin to help others . Thus by knowing and being aware of their own darkness and brilliance they can help others to face their individual humanity .

It is true that if we do not have the deep desire to go forward ourselves no amount pushing or persuading from others will make us move an inch .

One cannot apply the same criteria to different cultures , some cultures have very fatalistic beliefs , some are not based on individual self realisation . 

I would follow what you feel deep inside is to be true , if you believe that compasssion and kindness is the right way for you to be in your culture and environment , then follow your instinct .

best wishes white page .


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## Into The Light (Nov 19, 2008)

if a person is truly suffering from mental illness (depression, bipolar, schizophrenia) then no amount of tough love is going to make a person feel better.

i think tough love is applicable in certain situations but i wouldn't blindly apply it to all situations.

i know for myself that any tough love approach with me when i was depressed would have only made me spiral down further. when depressed we're already so hard on ourselves, telling ourselves we are worthless, useless, stupid. adding tough love on top of our own tough love only makes it worse.

i think tough love makes more sense when dealing with a moody teenager, or no longer bailing out that alcoholic friend so that they might see that they are out of control.

to be honest i don't think there is enough compassion in this world.

again, i think tough love should be carefully applied, because it can do more harm then good if used in the wrong situations.


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## Daniel (Nov 19, 2008)

> if all you get is lemons make your self a nice cold lemonade



Of course, treating depression is more difficult than making figurative lemonade:



> The findings support other research that depression is a serious condition that can't be solved by telling someone to just get over it.
> 
> New study suggests DNA changes in major depression, suicide - Psychlinks


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## Sparrow (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi BlueMac81,

Very interesting. I agree with just about everything already mentioned in that both approaches can be valid. We can all think of good and bad examples of both. Right, Wrong?.. Mmm, BlueMac maybe you and your friend should have been agreeing with each other instead of arguing . And maybe what is more important than the approach, is the specific given situation that it is applied to. Tactfulness comes to my mind be it "tough" or "soft".
Beyond self-pity, and past the socio-economics, culture, or environment, I can't help but think of how someone is fundamentally raised _and_ their genes/DNA.
Good topic.


> if all you get is lemons make your self a nice cold lemonade


 I agree... But just try telling THAT to Anti-Contrite :funny:


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## Cat Dancer (Nov 19, 2008)

I think it would be nice if it were that simple. How many times have I kicked myself in the rear, blaming myself for these diseases? How many times have I put myself down for them? More times than I can count. Do I feel sorry for myself? I guess sometimes I do, but I don't think it's the source of my mental illness.  

On the other hand I think there is a certain amount of forcing yourself to believe there is a bright side to life. Making choices along those lines. Not dwelling on the negative all the time. 

Interesting discussion.


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## Lana (Nov 20, 2008)

For the most part, I find myself nodding to just about everyone's post here, including the initial one. That, of course, doesn't answer the question posed 

I had a hard time coming to some resolve on the questions asked. One one end, compassion really is a rare commodity these days. On the other hand, too much compassion can be deadly and stall progress. So then I thought: how about firm compassion? Or something like that...some middle ground. But having re-read all the answers I finally recognized what I was mulling over.

I think saying things like "tough love", or "compassion", or "self-pity", or "negativity" and so on are really judgment calls of the observer. Nothing wrong with those except that they're personal observations of each individual that is of a certain mindset, with set of experiences that shape his or her thinking about life, world, people, mental illness, and so on. 

Point I'm trying to make here is that personal observations and personal views on what is right or wrong are just that: personal views. These are not objective ideas based on some body of formal training and detailed knowledge of the person being observed and his or her medical and mental history. There is a reason why we're all told repeatedly to see a trained professional in matters of mental health. That reason is that the opinion from that person will be objective, based on specific training for specific problem, and designed specifically for the client with their best interest at heart. 

For some people, "tough love" works. It has been my personal experience that people that administer "tough love" often do so because they're angry. Angry that they're being put in the position of caretaker, or angry because they don't know what to do, or angry because they have their own problems, or angry because they too need to experience care and compassion, or angry because they just don't want to do it, and so on. I personally do not respond well to tough anything. It makes me angry and makes me rebell....big time. But I know some people for whom 'tough love' kicks them into gear. It's all subjective.

So, I wouldn't stress over one or the other. I say, "Different strokes for different folks". It doesn't mean one is wrong or better than the other....it's just different. What determines validity and usefulness is the person receiving that type of care and doing (or not) something with it.

P.S. One other thing....IT doesn't have to be one or the other either.  Therapy is often a blend of various disciplines so it makes sense that a blend of compassion and firmness would also work well for many individuals.


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## Sparrow (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked what you said Lana,


> Therapy is often a blend of various disciplines


Between tough or soft, black and white there are many shades of grey.

What REALLY gets my goat, are the people that are of one mindset, it's carved in granite and they are not open-minded to other ideas. And I'm not talking about debate circles either. I mean some people that are very "rammy", right across the board and with one "brush". I usually run away from people like that. Hmm.. deeep thoughts :think:


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## white page (Nov 20, 2008)

I agree with you Lana , 


> So, I wouldn't stress over one or the other. I say, "Different strokes for different folks". It doesn't mean one is wrong or better than the other....it's just different. What determines validity and usefulness is the person receiving that type of care and doing (or not) something with it.


   as you say everyone is right .


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## BluMac81 (Nov 22, 2008)

That makes a lot of sense Lana, thanks.


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## amastie (Nov 23, 2008)

Lana said:


> For the most part, I find myself nodding to just about everyone's post here..


Yes, I did much of the time too



Lana said:


> ... It has been my personal experience that people that administer "tough love" often do so because they're angry..


Yes, that's often been my experience too.   And, while the original quote here made some valid points the *tone* of the words was, to me, angry - angry at BlueMac for "enabling" people to be miserable.

As others have said here, it varies what works and what doesn't work.  A broad statement that makes no allowance for differences, for context or for biological and other factors doesn't seem helpful at all to me.

amastie

Having not long ago written that post, it has since occurred to me that I sometimes feel guilty about feeling down precisely because I *do* see how good my situation is compared to others - not just the obvious people in third world countries, people without homes, without money or any kind  of advantage, but also those people who experience mental or physical illness and are still able to reach outside themselves in ways that amaze me.  I have friends who do that.  I am inspired by them and lifted by their presence.  Nevertheless, it is not their example which most enables me to conquer my own looking downward.  It's always a combination of things.  I don't advocate guilt as a response to being told to "pick up your socks" but it's hard not to feel lesser if you cannot do that in the face of much good fortune.  It would be so much easier if we were all painted with the same-coloured broad brush, but we are the product (and our responses the product)  of so many variables that no one method could  possibly apply to us all.

Whether 'tough love' or some other kind of help is proffered, the first thing needed, regardless, is compassion.  The protection and well-being of those who would give help must also be taken into account.  That needn't exclude compassion, but it may well mean turning away from someone is, in reality, the best option.

Most often, compassion is needed not just for the one asking for,  or appearing to need support.  It is also needed for those who feel called on to offer it.

amastie


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## Sparrow (Nov 23, 2008)

> Whether 'tough love' or some other kind of help is proffered, the first thing needed, regardless, is compassion.



True compassion with sincerity... Priceless.



> Most often, compassion is needed not just for the one asking for, or appearing to need support. It is also needed for those who feel called on to offer it.



Well said, and I agree. Life is a two-way street with "give and take". That also reminds me of some 'professionals' who need 'professionals' as we are after all, human. But I'm drifting off the original post.


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## kimmy (Nov 24, 2008)

Interesting posts


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