# Why should we always consider mental illness an illness?



## Steven_v (Oct 28, 2006)

sometimes is it not something to be proad of something that gives one a perspective on the world that others cannot enjoy, as this site says. http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/madpride/


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## Rosa (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

i suppose if one searchs hard enough they could find about anything on the Internet 
In friendship
Rosa


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## Steven_v (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

well i supossodedly "suffer" from bi-polar disorder and o.c.d. (and on ocasion pyschosis), but why do i have to consider these an illniss why not a gift. some of the most creative people in history have suposedly "suffered" from bi-polar disorder, and i know that when i go off my meds i can be incredebly creative (i like to write). so why should i consider it an illiness and not a gift ?


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## Rosa (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

I think its ok to think of it anyway you find it most helpful. I just wouldn't be too influced by alot of things we find on the Internet. 
In friendship
Rosa


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## Steven_v (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

so why should i be made to feel wrong for wanting to imbrace it and stay completly of meds. why do people use words such as mad, is madness not just a different perception of reallity. and is reallity not just what we percieve


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## foghlaim (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

I think it's called a mental illness simply because it is one...   I for one do not view the depression part of bipolar a Gift!!  NO way.. and i'm not dure toomany other ppl would see it that way either.   
this is just my opinion of course. 

but like Rosa says .. "its ok to think of it anyway you find it most helpful."


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## Steven_v (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

i just dont understand if a person isnt doing anyone harm and is perfectly happy why call it a madniss or mental illniss


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## Rosa (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

I think some people have to use labels as a way of feeling superior over others...I think its their way of lumping together a group of people that they think they are better than.  By putting the people down as much as possible, in their eyes, it elevates them to a higher position. 
Sad but true
Rosa


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## Rosa (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

By the way, Bi-Polar and OCD and others are mental illnesses- they are not the norm. I don't think many of us would actually choose to have these conditions if asked.  The question would have to be why do people poke fun of those with mental illness instead of other conditions....the truth is people do make fun of others who appear different than themselfs (see above post) but also recently there was that radio personality that made fun of Michael J Fox for 'putting on an act' when he shook during a recent interview.....the truth is he shook because he has Parkensons Disease.  It was not until others stood up against this jerk of a radio personailty did he not think it was so funny anymore.  
Rosa


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## Into The Light (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

steven people don't always understand. if you've never experienced it or know someone who has it then it's difficult to grasp that someone would embrace it. that's the trouble really.


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## ThatLady (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*



Steven_v said:


> i just dont understand if a person isnt doing anyone harm and is perfectly happy why call it a madniss or mental illniss



From some of your previous posts, steven, it doesn't appear that you're "perfectly happy". You've had some real difficulties, and you've had some real suffering.

I, personally, don't care much for the term "madness". I'll accept mental illness, since I don't consider illness as a stigma. We don't stigmatize those with high blood pressure, or diabetes. Why, then, would we stigmatize those with mental illness? I, for one, do not.


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## Halo (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*

Steven 

I think that you can embrace your ocd and bipolar any way you see fit. If you feel that you want to call it a gift rather than a mental illness or anything else then you are free to do that.  Whatever makes you accepting of who you are as person is the main point.  If you personally want to not take medication for your "gift" or "illness" that is your choice but it is a  choice for everyone and I would NEVER recommend to anyone not to take medication just to be more creative. I think that it is a decision that only an individual together with their health care professional can make together.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 28, 2006)

My feelings about this issue are sumarized in severl posts here at Psychlinks Forum and in Promoting stigma: Dumb ideas from “experts”, Part Two.

The antipsychiatry movement and its notions about mental illness arfe not new concepts but they are fundamentally flawed. To take one of your examples, that of bipolar disorder, when you are in a manic phase you may feel wonderful - full of energy and creativity, invincible, superior to the rest of the world - but inevitably that feeling will give way to despair. Neither the euphoria nor the despair is reality. That's the problem. It's not a question of the rest of the world unfairly labeling you. It's a question of the adequacy of your reality testing when you are in those two states. And that is what makes it a mental illness.


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## Steven_v (Oct 28, 2006)

and who are you to say what is reality


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## ^^Phoenix^^ (Oct 28, 2006)

Steven - debating what is and isn't reality is really not the question and is a subject that will just cause unneeded conflict here.  

If you see your bi-polar as a gift, then as nancy said, don't take your meds.  Your not obliged to do so.  But as Thatlady said, I too have seen some of your previous posts - and you have not seemed 'perfectly happy'.  

*That *is the purpose of the meds, not to stigmatize you as 'mad' (a term I really dislike) but to help you lead a life which is not full of the unpredictability that most bi-polar sufferers find difficult to live with.


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## justjo (Oct 29, 2006)

Steven,

I am new to this forum so I don't want to say anything to upset anyone. Having said that, I think that a lot of the stigma attached to 'mental illness' stems from fear and a lack of understanding. I don't know how you feel as I don't have bipolar. However, it is recognised globally as a mental illness, and it is a viewpoint that will probably never change. This doesn't mean that you have to be happy about it. It's just the way it is, and from what I have been reading, you have a few very caring and intelligent people in this forum that respect your view, and are not trying to attack you. I don't know if this has helped, but I hope so. Cheers,
justjo


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## ThatLady (Oct 29, 2006)

I think mental illness is just like any other illness. It's diagnosed when something isn't working properly. Diabetics aren't able to use glucose properly. People with hypertension cannot maintain a reasonable blood pressure.

People who are mentally ill often have chemical imbalances that causes their bodies to misuse things like dopamine, serotonin, and other chemicals that help to govern our moods and feelings.

That said, there are situations that can result in depression, or feelings of loss and sadness that a person, at that point in time, finds it difficult (if not impossible) to deal with alone. Therapy and medication can be extremely helpful, whether it's a case of chemicals gone wrong, or life dealing blows we're unable to handle alone.

The key is, are we able to live happy lives, safe and secure lives, lives that contribute to our happiness and to the happiness of those around us? If we aren't, something is obviously wrong. What is wrong needs to be put right, if at all possible. Everyone has the right to live a happy, productive life free of untoward sadness, troublesome mood swings, uncontrollable anger, and other feelings that sap our strength and deny our dignity.


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## Halo (Oct 29, 2006)

ThatLady said:


> Everyone has the right to live a happy, productive life free of untoward sadness, troublesome mood swings, uncontrollable anger, and other feelings that sap our strength and deny our dignity.



Well put TL


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## Steven_v (Nov 4, 2006)

can i just say sorry to people i wasnt really thinking straight when i started this post. i have been taking my meds but iam not sureif there working all to well, cause for the first time in awhile not only do i feel down but the unwanted thoughts are back


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## Kanadiana (Nov 4, 2006)

I just kind of figure that in our world and society/s full of a bunch of individuals, all trying to co-habit in the same world, needing to interact, and effecting each others functioning and wellbeings, that it's hard to avoid having an "across the board" base-line set of standards of behaviors as a set of "rules of conduct" considered "normal" in order to have some way of organizing and controlling how we function and survive as a society together. 

Labels and categories, "mental illness", "disorders" etc, have negative connotations because they are considered "not the norm" and "something to be treated and fixed in order to try and help them behave like "the majority norm" by many people still. Stigma sucks.

I preceive that ALL of us human beings are dysfunctional some of the time or all of the time when measured against the standards of "the norm" (who decided normal? I dunno. But it keeps changing  Yesterdays functional is todays dysfunctional, as todays functional may well be tomorrows dysfunctional "illness, disorder, whatever". 

As far as what I think about, say bi-polar as an example, as to whether to think of it as a gift or a human flaw, I don't think it matters one way or another what it is, or how its labelled. It just "IS". What I would think matters is that WHATEVER a person is or isn't doing with it, however they are experiencing its effects on their own and others lives around them, all that matters is finding a level where "everyone is doing and feeling okay" Swings too far either way can be detrimental to personal or others wellbeing when we have to share life and survive side by side. Finding a functional and happiest balance can be had through medications and treatments when things go "too far"

These are all just spontaneous thoughts that have bopped into my head when I read this thread. Just my brain going blah blah blah, for what it's worth, and right or wrong, and am very fatigued today so I hope when I come back and read this that I don't say, "Boy oh boy. Now there shows a crazy thinking woman for all to see"  

Gift or flaw? Who cares if it's your own as to how you perceive it  Others will perceive it as they do for whatever their own reasonings, good, bad, indifferent, all of the above. Question is, is it a happy medium between yourself and functioning with the world how you must? If so, then to me, it would be a non-issue 

Oy vay ... I better shut up and go drink some more coffee


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## Kanadiana (Nov 4, 2006)

Steven_v said:


> can i just say sorry to people i wasnt really thinking straight when i started this post. i have been taking my meds but iam not sureif there working all to well, cause for the first time in awhile not only do i feel down but the unwanted thoughts are back



You posted this while I was writing my long post in here so I didn't see it until now  

I know I've read and heard that part of the "high" of bi-polar does bring with it the gift of creative flow. Awesome to have that and express it all when and how a person wants to. Finding a balance between too little and too much seems to be the problem with bipolar from what I understand. It must be so frustrating trying to find a balance and testing out no meds, yes meds, how much, etc. 

I was on Zoloft once for a year and while it helped with anxiety etc, it absolutely flattened me emotionally. I was emotionally unresponsive, but also aware of that fact. Kinda brain dead and unmotivated, uninspired, but aware that I wanted my brain to be able to think again and I wanted to feel emotions again. People thought I was just "cold" I wasn't. I had energy to sit like a lump and nothing fazed me. I'm normally warm and responsive and my daughter especially noticed I wasn't while on that med. Zoloft was just too much of a good thing I guess. It helped the anxiety but stole my spontaneity and ability to feel at all. yukky. It was great to get off it, and the anxiety was no longer a problem by then either, and has never been to that degree since. 

Absolutely no apology necessary as far as I'm concerned!!! Sounds like maybe your doc might want to adjust either the dosage or the medication you're on? I hoipe you get this sorted out soon, Steven


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## Kanadiana (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: why should we always consider mental illiness an illeness*



Steven_v said:


> so why should i be made to feel wrong for wanting to imbrace it and stay completly of meds. why do people use words such as mad, is madness not just a different perception of reallity. and is reallity not just what we percieve



I figure that when being part of society and functioning in it for our own and societies survival as a whole, that it's not about how we or anyone else feels about or views things, it's about our ACTIONS through behaviors and how effective or detrimental they are for a persons AND others safe and wellbeing functioning and survival. 

I think that the term "madness" is describing when perception of reality does not match with how things really are. Being realistic sees how things really are, and we allk have to work on our unrealistiuc at times perceptions as we go, to varying degrees. We all have the ability to "imagine" and that fogs reality sometimes.

 Extreme simplistic example of failure to reality test, to make a point here  "I'm a human being. I can fly" If I really and truly believe that then I'm totally unrealistic (delusional or something) and am in big trouble and if I jump off a building to fly, I'm going to hit the ground and maybe take an innocent person with me if I land on them and that will hurt many lives, including my own. I won't see how unrealistic I'm being, but others do CLEARLY and someone else can only do my reality testing for me and intervene to save me and others from myself and probably even inflict that help on me to help get me real again to protect me and others. I'll thank them greatly after I realize how unrealistic I was and am back to being more realistic in my thinking and actions.  Until I see clearly I'm going to fight them tooth and nail and try to fly and I'll not see how in error I am. Feed back is good when you can evaluate it realistically


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## 1210donna (Feb 16, 2007)

My father had times he believed he was Jesus or Elvis and could cure cancer.  These were his manic times.  He's also drive the car off the road, hanging out the driver's door with a foot on the accelerator and drive through the park.  He jumped a fence once and peed all over someone's cars.  When in mixed states he was murderously violent and a wild animal.  When in depressive one's he was self pitying and sorry for his existance.  

He's also the man who would take the fish from the fish pond and toss them in the swimming pool to swim with them, who tied me and my brother to the clothes line to spin us, who would suddenly sing, dance and roll into wild characterizations.

I remember him fondly and part of what helped was understanding bipolar.  I'm diagnosed with autism but was often in giggling fits and getting to great heights, racing into traffic, utterly fearless and manic.  In my teens I'd have episodes of extreme euphoria and believed I could fly by throwing my body off an apartment block to kill it and free my spirit.  Fortunately friends would pin me down as the maniac I was at those times.  In depressive episodes I've been certain I deserved to die and in serious danger of myself.  I'm also a proud artist and extremely productive.  I have tics, have struggled with OCD and anxiety disorders and as well as with autism and bipolar and gut and immune disorders.  All taught me things, all contributed to the spiritual person I am striving for balance.  I do see mood, anxiety and compulsive disorders as illnesses in the sense of 'imbalances' and I am alive because of their management.  I can BOTH be grateful for management and still celebrate things which have 'side effects' that have enriched my life - order, creativity, focus, humour, surrealism, spirituality.  What's important is that as a working professional, I hold my head up high and assert my equality.  Having any condition should never be accepted as a basis for not recognising equality.


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## HA (Feb 16, 2007)

1210donna said:


> I do see mood, anxiety and compulsive disorders as illnesses in the sense of 'imbalances' and I am alive because of their management. I can BOTH be grateful for management and still celebrate things which have 'side effects' that have enriched my life - order, creativity, focus, humour, surrealism, spirituality. What's important is that as a working professional, I hold my head up high and assert my equality. Having any condition should never be accepted as a basis for not recognising equality.
> 
> Donna Williams
> www.donnawilliams.net


 
Well said! I like this quote.


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