# It’s Been a Rough Couple of Weeks



## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 13, 2019)

I don’t think I have the energy to explain. It sums up to feeling more depressed than usual. It’s frustrating whenever you talk to someone about adulting and said person gets so hostile. 

And then my friend freaked out on me (in FB Messenger) after I had asked what I had thought was a reasonable question in a Pug Group on Facebook. I have a Boston Terrier but my friend said it was okay to join the Pug Group because my Boston Terrier/Frenchie cross is Medium Pug size. He has a blast when he’s hanging out with all his buddies. There was a poll put up on the group wall and I asked if another question could be added to the poll. 

Well, she seemed to assume I knew there was drama all week going on (in a Pug Group!?!) and when I said I didn’t she practically asked me if I was stupid/blind.

She said started off the conversation with this:



Apparently she just has a potty mouth/fingers when texting. 

I told her how I felt triggered because, as I mentioned, my David has already gotten pissed at me for asking what I feel are reasonable questions. My tone is even and calm, I think. He just doesn’t like to deal with adulting because he’s been through enough crap for several people. Especially finances. But it’s imperative that we DO work on our finances. He needs to work on not being so defensive and hostile just because he is the one who needs to get more work. He has so many options, not just getting more students.  

I rarely have arguments with either my husband or my friend.  And it was messages, not talking on the phone/in person, so there was no tone except the one inside my head. Which wasn’t a very nice tone.

I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. My husband apologized and said he didn’t mean the things he’d said, and that he just lost it on me trying to accuse me of blaming him for the lack of our funds. 

He’s playing World of Warcraft again and he’s getting carried away again. I was very happy today that he spent some time with me outside. He still feels guilty, but there have been a few times in the last few months where he was unnecessarily angry or accusing of me of... I don’t know what... 

It was very triggering. Somehow everything was my fault... Even though I wasn’t implying that “everything” was HIS fault. Even though it feels like I drained out all my veins for the amount of time he was sick. It would be nice if he could do the same for me. 

I’m so tired of being the “Responsible One.” I want to be taken care of. Obviously David isn’t ready to help anyone, and barely interested in helping himself. 

I just don’t know what to do. I’m not trying to push him into doing something before he’s ready. If I don’t say anything then I’m letting myself down. If I say something to encourage or ask him if he can do something, he flips like a switch from 0 to Broil...

Thanks for listening. Let me hear some encouraging words, maybe a wee pep talk. Or maybe post cute photos. lol


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## gooblax (Apr 13, 2019)

Both of those situations with your friend and husband sound really stressful. 
It definitely seems like the one with your friend came out of nowhere for you since it was based on FB stuff that you had no idea about.

I'm not great with talking about relationship stuff but I can certainly post a link to some cute dog gifs.


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## Daniel (Apr 13, 2019)

> Obviously David isn’t ready to help anyone, and barely interested in helping himself.



What has he been like in the past?  e.g.   Before he met you: Did he have a history of living off of other people or often borrowing money?  Has he ever been almost homeless?         

Has he ever been on disability insurance for depression/anxiety/etc?

How many hours a week is he working now?   How does that compare to a couple/few years ago?


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## Daniel (Apr 13, 2019)

Is he interested in or getting psychiatric care?

Would you be better off financially on your own?  (Personally, that would build resentment in me real quick, especially since the underlying issues -- like addiction -- are often more than financial.)


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## Daniel (Apr 13, 2019)

If his income was not the issue (e.g. he got a big check every month), what other issues exist that cause resentment?  Is he apathetic about things in general?  Or just things that are not game related?



> He’s playing World of Warcraft again and he’s getting carried away again. I was very happy today that he spent some time with me outside.



Have you considered giving him an ultimatum -- it's me or the Xbox (or whatever it is)?


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## David Baxter PhD (Apr 13, 2019)

Daniel said:


> Is he interested in or getting psychiatric care?



Or going to couples counseling?


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## Daniel (Apr 13, 2019)

Sometimes a single session of couples therapy can be helpful/affordable.

Some of the blog posts at _Psychology Today_:

Marriage Problems? Here's an 8-Step Rescue Plan

Couples Therapy: 15 Essentials That the Best Therapists Do

A Giver and a Taker


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## Daniel (Apr 13, 2019)

Three Reasons to Leave: Abuse, Addiction, and Affairs

Researchers have long reported that financial problems are the top area of conflict for most couples, and that communication is the second most-cited reason for marital discord. While that may be true, these problems pale in comparison to the severe and devastating consequences resulting from abuse, addiction, and affairs...


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 14, 2019)

gooblax said:


> ...I can certainly post a link to some cute dog gifs.



Oh yay! Thank you gooblax! You’re a gem! [emoji38][emoji3590][emoji2][emoji106]




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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 14, 2019)

Daniel said:


> What has he been like in the past?  Before he met you: Did he have a history of living off of other people or often borrowing money?
> - His father had passed away a couple of years before we met online.  He was living with his mom at the time but he had his own business. He sold basketball, baseball, football cards and memorabilia. Also he had a settlement from a company he worked for because when he was laying pipe/conduit dirt fell on him and it damaged his back. He had 2
> laminectomies before I met him. The money from the settlement allowed him to buy a hot tub to help his back. I thought he was comfortable with money & was just staying with his mom due to health issues and helping his mom at the time.
> 
> ...



Let’s say before there were major issues with his health, or in between his life-threatening or extremely painful health issues: he was up to, I think it was, 15 students. That was way too many. We figured out more recently that we could survive on 8 or 9 students, although 10 would even provide a bit of a financial cushion.

His father was very physically ill, as well as emotionally, and was an alcoholic. Dave Senior had issues with his back to the point where he’d lay on the floor, moaning in pain. He also had a blood disorder, and David (Jr) also had an issue, hence his spleen was removed when he was 12.

To tell you the truth, I came to the conclusion that my David has something really odd going on. I Googled all his symptoms and concluded MAYBE (because one shouldn’t diagnose oneself or loved one on the Internet! lol) he might have Noonan’s syndrome. Noonan’s is an odd syndrome, as it can present in SO many different ways.

David has inherited some sort of degenerative bone issue and blood disorder from his father.

David (I found out only in the last few years) was diagnosed to have ADHD as a child. He’s not currently on medication for ADHD.

He has Valgus Orbitus in his elbows (created really bad tennis/golf elbow for which he had to receive Physio)...

He had cancer and is considered cancer free since Jan 2019 (5 years after surgery/chemo/radiation), but to make sure to remain that way, he’s continuing to take Tamoxifen for 5 more years. Side effects include arthritic-like symptoms in his joints.

He’s had neck surgery for a herniated disc that ruptured. 

He’s had his bowel resection and previous to that, several years of diverticulitis bleeds/infections. I guess there was too much going on (or cancer, neck surgery) to be operated on before 2017. 

He also had the oddest horrible leg cramps as a child, where his mom had to take him to the ER for help. She worked in a hospital, so she had already tried Tylenol & hydration. 

He was so skinny when I met him. His butt had no fat. 

He’s got bad hearing, bad eyesight, and my benefits can cover either/both, but he doesn’t seem to (ever) want to take advantage of this and get prescription lenses.

The End (I think!)




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## Daniel (Apr 14, 2019)

So he has 4 students but needs 8 or 9 to pay the bills?



> David (I found out only in the last few years) was diagnosed to have ADHD as a child. He’s not currently on medication for ADHD.



In addition to getting hearing aids and glasses, his best bet may be to consider getting evaluated for any possible current mental health issues, such as depression resulting from chronic pain.   If he would do better financially on disability payments from the government, that may be worth considering as well (and may be more likely to get approved for a mental disability than a physical one -- as is often the case in the US.)


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## Daniel (Apr 14, 2019)

> He used to work as much as maybe 20 hours per week.



I have worked almost that much (16 hours/wk) while on disability (SSDI, which gives more entitlements than SSI).   And since I was only making minimum wage basically, the government did not consider my monthly income to be that of "substantial gainful activity" -- which means I could keep everything I made and my disability payments.

While the situation may be very different in Canada, it may help to talk to a disability lawyer if it doesn't cost anything for an initial consult.  (Disability lawyers are everywhere in the US and free until backpayments are awarded.)


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## Daniel (Apr 14, 2019)

BTW: 



			
				David Baxter said:
			
		

> Yes depression counts. Anything which prevents you from working counts.
> 
> But you will need thorough documentation and you will need to demonstrate that you are following all appropriate medical/psychiatric recommendations to recover.
> 
> ...





			
				David Baxter said:
			
		

> I would recommend that you get advice from Legal Aid and your doctor.
> 
> ODSP is a bureaucracy. For reasons that escape me, they seem to deny most claims the first time around, almost as if that's their policy, but many are approved on appeal.
> 
> ODSP - Not officially diagnosed, and not sure what to do. - Page 2


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

Daniel said:


> Is he interested in or getting psychiatric care?
> 
> Would you be better off financially on your own?  (Personally, that would build resentment in me real quick, especially since the underlying issues -- like addiction -- are often more than financial.)



OMG... Resentment is right. But I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I thought perhaps he wasn’t well mentally, so how could I tell him what I needed him to do? I wasn’t sure if I was being fair. 

It got to the point that he is getting MUCH easier to talk to.  

Also I had a bit of an epiphany today. 

He told me that because I have the degree, that I should make the money and he’s work part time and look after the dog and house, etc.

Somehow, in my lack of brain while on the ADHD meds, perhaps, I think I missed something.

I asked him if he thought since I was the main breadwinner that he thought I somehow should be the one with all the financial responsibilities and pressure.  I said to him, it’s not a problem to work part
time and look after the house, but you still have to help enough financially so that it’s actually equal.
I told him the way things are going right now, I feel taken for granted. I said if I was in charge of making all the money and that money had to pay bills, it wouldn’t be “our” money. I said his money and my money would be in separate bank accounts. He’d have his, I’d have mine. However I am doing all I can and it’s not enough. I could be working as a teacher with my degree and probably making a lot less & having less benefits if I was teaching Arts Education instead of where I work now as technical support.

I also pointed out, look, I’m off work right now because I can’t go back until this whole thing is straightened out, or at least on the right path. I feel that if I go back to work too soon without the entirety of the many steps we need to take, well everything is just going to slide back into the Gong Show again.

And even though I’m off work, I still get paid 75 percent of what I normally make. I pointed out that even though I’m not working, I’m still getting paid plenty of money.

We also got a good tax return because David was listed again as my dependent. 

I’m going to make him understand if I have to repeat myself daily. Which I’m trying not to do. I asked him why doesn’t he feel self-motivated to take care of the finances with me? How does that show me he’s mentally well???? 

So tomorrow, one of the major steps we have to make is to open a new bank account. Our legislated financial counselor advised us it would be a good idea to remove our income from our current one in case the creditors come after us. So that’s what we’re going to do tomorrow.

I know that all the credit is ruined under MY name (2 credit cards & a personal line of credit), but we both made this happen, so even though the law says it’s all on me, he seems to understand that I’m not the only one who needs to step up.

I’m worried his brain is gonna somehow twist that into it all being on me.

I did remind him that if we are divorced, the debt is gonna be halved. I haven’t said anything about the possibility that since he wasn’t making enough money that there is a tiny possibility that he’d be given more of a load.

I’m sorry, I’m really overwhelmed by what’s going on and by all these questions.

I am pretty sure there still IS something wrong. At least I hope there is. Because otherwise I should be mad as hell at him. This is all the more frustrating when he won’t get help. And he projects at me frequently where he’s talking to ME like I should be doing something more.

I said I’m seeing a psychiatrist, a
psychologist, and an ADHD coach. How is that not helping myself? Not to mention all the CBT I’ve had in the span of about 15 years.

I asked him too, because he seemed to think somehow that it’s my mentally unwell perception that’s a problem. lol Like I don’t have a REASON to be alarmed/concerned, and there’s no reason to encourage/push him to do anything. WTF, I am worried he’s got this fantasy that the tax return is going to keep us afloat forever, somehow.  I don’t know how long it’s going to last if I’m making as much money as I possibly can and still we’re consistently spending $200 or more than we’re making with his contributions.

It was like trying to hit him over the head with a heavy object, but his thick skull won’t let any reality get through. I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. lol

Anyway, I think...  I hope... He finally knows what he needs to do.  If not, I’ll sure as hell remind him.  I feel like I’m trying to build a sand sculpture in the rain. 

Now I know I am partially responsible for “over-caring” for him. But if he’s as well as he claims, I pointed out that I’ve been holding back, and I need to push him harder then. Even though that’s not supposed to be my job. 

I really really hope what we discussed has finally sunk in. 

If he’s not mentally ill, then is he really just a lazy ******* who thinks I should be his money slave!?! lol Only reason I still haven’t kicked him to the curb is because I’m pretty sure he IS depressed. And I have a feeling it’s his normal. For him, his normal is being depressed. So that’s why he thinks nothing is wrong with him. lol

*pulling out my hair*

He’s supposed to go to Physio as well, but apparently he feels he can’t do that at the same time that he’s working on finances. This is another thing that is infuriating. He’s doing everything sooo slowly, and I feel I have no choice but to give him a poke with a stick once in a while, so that I don’t real his fragile ego/fantasy that somehow everything will be okay...  Or whatever’s going on on that head of his.

I was thinking of going to different psychologist because my current one doesn’t have a lot of availability. So maybe I’ll get a marriage counselor and have David come with me.  I’m pretty much planning to tell him that if he loves me he’ll come. He said he would listen to me when I told him what I needed. I need him to come to a therapist with me. 

I’m almost to the point of telling him, look, if you think nothing is wrong with you, then I’m not going to see any therapists either. I’m going to ask to get weaned of my anti-anxiety and anti-depression meds. I don’t know if that strategy will work, but it worked when I told him I wouldn’t set up an appointment with my therapist until he set one up with his...

My point is that he apparently cares for me more than he cares about himself. I don’t know what else to do. After thinking about it, I realize I am pretty much turning my anger inward all over again, and I intend to do it.
I don’t make idle threats. I mean to keep a promise.

Who am I kidding?!  I’m heckin’ lost. lol


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

David Baxter said:


> Or going to couples counseling?



Well, we’re going to find out. I seriously want to set a fire under his butt. Or give it a few good kicks. *sigh*

When do I push him and when do I hold back?!! 


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

Oh man, I went and made an epic novel, there. Heckin’ shootin’ and other family-friendly “swearing.”


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## Daniel (Apr 15, 2019)

> He told me that because I have the degree, that I should make the money and he work part time and look after the dog and house, etc.



Maybe he needs to feel more consequences, as in there is less money for things he thinks he needs.  

It obviously would not be wrong for you to save for retirement, etc. when possible.


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## David Baxter PhD (Apr 15, 2019)

H011yHawkJ311yBean said:


> Well, we’re going to find out. I seriously want to set a fire under his butt. Or give it a few good kicks. *sigh*
> 
> When do I push him and when do I hold back?!!



When you're fed up with holding back.

Also, back to @Daniel's point, 



> He told me that because I have the degree, that I should make  the money and he work part time and look after the dog and house,  etc.



Is he in fact doing any of those things? Looking after the house? Cooking? Laundry? Looking after the dog? Taking the dog out for walks? etc., etc.?


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## Daniel (Apr 15, 2019)

Since exercise can help with depression, maybe you two can go for more/longer walks, etc. together?

For me, when we were living paycheck to paycheck, the other problem was less "date nights" since I was in survival mode.  But even getting an ice cream cone at McDonalds or taking a walk somewhere new can be a way to spend time together and get some novelty.

For depression/anxiety,  I find it especially helpful to spend more time in public places or in Nature, both of which provide novelty.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

David Baxter said:


> When you're fed up with holding back.
> 
> Also, back to @Daniel's point,
> 
> ...



Yes he is! He’s even taken it up a few notches! 

He’s actually made plans with a friend to do some work on the house that have needed repairs for years. His friend is the reliable one.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

Daniel said:


> Maybe he needs to feel more consequences, as in there is less money for things he thinks he needs.
> 
> It obviously would not be wrong for you to save for retirement, etc. when possible.



I know, right? It’s like he can’t see that far ahead. I think that’s a huge part of the problem.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 15, 2019)

Daniel said:


> If his income was not the issue (e.g. he got a big check every month), what other issues exist that cause resentment?  Is he apathetic about things in general?  Or just things that are not game related?
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered giving him an ultimatum -- it's me or the Xbox (or whatever it is)?



I’ve been patient and in the past he usually comes around on his own and stops himself. I had expressed that he needed more balance. So just recently he’s gone back to a much more balanced amount of time. Before I get up and in the evening instead of off and on all day. 

Part of the reason is because our newly moved-in couple next door are gamers. The fellow plays WOW, so David has a “reason” at least. Sort of. But I like the neighbour because they have discussions about the game and Rob (our new neighbour) has expressed that he knows all about the real life balance (real life = RL). So I’m actually encouraged by this.


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## Daniel (Apr 15, 2019)

H011yHawkJ311yBean said:


> I know, right? It’s like he can’t see that far ahead. I think that’s a huge part of the problem.



My husband (who has bipolar disorder) is the same way sometimes, but that's also partly what attracted me to him (to balance out my mostly living in the future).


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## GaryQ (Apr 16, 2019)

The problem seems complex. But...
To clarify one point when one person is the breadwinner and the other takes care of the house etc.. thats like it used to be in the old days well that person is entitled to half. Also by law if you divorce him and you were the breadwinner and make more than him he would ne entitled to alimony support from you. Also unless there's a pre-nuptual aggreement when couples divorce it doesn't matter who payed for what, including the capital paid on a house after the marriage started until it ends including common law couples. 

This was previously to protect women from being homeless since they were usually the one staying home raising the kids etc but with the new reality of things, common law, woman being the bread winner, same sex marriages and on and on, it applies to all situations. Anything earned or acquired (exception being things like gifts and inheritance) are common property and to be divided equally and evenly. Same goes for Canada Pension Plan from the date the relationship started.

So throwing him to the curb might be a bigger financial hardship. AS for his physical and mental issues that's something really complex to figure out and if he is like me and is pushed to the wall he could probably just freeze and give up and do absolutely nothing.

Hope you guys can find the appropriate help to resolve things. 

just my $0.02 Canadian


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 16, 2019)

Oh, I wasn’t planning to kick him to the curb. Yes, we both know it would be easier to work together to fix the mess we both got ourselves into.

I don’t know much about the law, but if you were working your ass off for years and your spouse decided they didn’t have to contribute to the finances, I wonder what a judge might think about that. I’ve been TRYING to get him to see a psychiatrist because I think he’s either depressed or his ADHD is messing with his logic or something.  

Yes we both weren’t the best money managers. We’re way better now. However I was always the one trying to watch what we spent. He seems to be oblivious about how things are going and almost seems happy to stay that way.

The main issue has been that we consistently do not make enough to cover what we spend.  I’ve done all I can do. He pretty much expects me to get a 2nd job or something. Or pull money out of my @$$. I already work full time and make about $35/hr. I could have been a teacher and never gotten near to making that much, plus my benefits help us save 80% on prescriptions, 100% on dentistry, about $300 towards an optometrist/glasses, coverage for psychologist/psychiatrist/physiotherapy/massage/etc...  David has the same benefits through my job. But HE doesn’t bother to take advantage of any of them.

He has crappy eyesight: this might be why I have to rewash his dishes, clean surfaces he’s already “cleaned,” and clean things he seems completely oblivious to that seem obvious to me. I can’t fathom why he never seems to put pop cans or bottles or milk cartons in the recyclables. He just puts them in the sink, on the counter, or on the stove. And if I politely say that I’d appreciate it if he’s take care of rinsing it out right away, he gets into a snit and acts like I’m SOOO hard on him. 

It’s like he’s either blind, or not adult enough to see obvious things that need done. This house has been a piece of crap needing repairs done since we moved in. I work full time, so I ask him to arrange for whatever to be fixed. Does he arrange it? No. How many times have I asked him to do things like this? I’ve lost count. The only thing he seems to WANT to do is get the car’s oil changed. He doesn’t like to do groceries by himself. He used to let dishes pile up in the sink instead of doing them daily and guess who got to clean a week’s worth of dishes on one of my days off? He’s “supposed to” do the toilet and the bathroom sink & toilet: I do the tub/shower. But guess who gets to clean the whole bathroom? The toilet has to be disgusting, he can’t won’t clean it unless I mention it several times, or sometimes he still doesn’t.

So he’s either got eye problems, selective hearing/memory, doesn’t give a damn about running the household, has the mentality/cognition of a child, is a lazy A-hole...   OR he’s got mental health issues.

He used to be WAY better at consistent housework. He used to take pride in our house. He was almost meticulous. 

Tell me what kind of healthy adult male who’s been alive 50+ years has these issues? What adult doesn’t give a damn or is not mindful of anything except his hobby/playing World of Warcraft/other games.  What “normal” person can barely see and won’t get glasses FFS?

He’s driving me up a wall when he says he doesn’t need mental health support, there’s nothing wrong with him. But he says I should focus on me. Well, hello, I AM! I am communicating better with him, asking him for help. But no, it’s not about him, it’s all about me. I’m not supposed to expect anything from him because he thinks I’m having perception problems because of MY anxiety/depression/ADHD. He thinks I should hurry up and get back to work so we can get full wages (mine) so HE can go back to his fantasy that everything is financially just super duper.

He bloody hell better have mental health problems!!!!! 

I am so sick of the unfairness and he thinks I’m too hard on him, that I’m being unreasonable.

And so I come here to vent because otherwise he wouldn’t have to leave. I would leave.

He used to make terrific money when he worked at Workers Compensation Board. He quit after his arm pain got bad enough to go to Physio. He said it was too stressful to go back. I supported him.

He decided to start teaching guitar.
I supported him.

He got sick. I supported him.

He has NO benefits. I supported him.

I’ve had it up to *HERE* because what about ME? Why can’t I work part time so I can do the things I love? Why do I have to be stuck at this job that drains me and makes me so exhausted at the end of the day I don’t have energy to do anything? Why can’t I have holidays instead of looking after a sick husband? 

Do you now understand why I took stress leave from work again!?! 

I make plenty of money not working. 

We have NO nest egg. What the hell are we going to do when I retire? Oh wait, I guess I’ll never be able to retire.  Best I can hope for is to maybe die of a heart attack, stroke, or from throwing myself in front of a bus.

The Effing End.





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## Daniel (Apr 17, 2019)

> So he’s either got eye problems, selective hearing/memory, doesn’t give a damn about running the household, has the mentality/cognition of a child, is a lazy A-hole... OR he’s got mental health issues.



There is no excuse for some things, but what keeps a lot of people "straight" are consequences for their behavior.  And though people develop their traits over a long period of time, they are still responsible for their behavior -- otherwise, who is?


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## Daniel (Apr 17, 2019)

Addressing Refuse-to-Work Syndrome

...In the end, the spouse with Refuse-to-Work Syndrome almost always wins---No one can force him or her to work. Or s/he or does a teeny, pleasant very part-time job like giving a few flute lessons a week from home.

While people with Refuse-to-Work Syndrome may have brief periods of earning modest or even moderate income, over the couple's lifespan, they end up contributing only a tiny fraction of the family income, leaving the primary breadwinner to, through his/her life, work long hours at that job s/he doesn't really like--S/he is, like the donkey above, a beast of burden.

Few of the working spouses choose to divorce their refuse-to-work spouse over it. They just feel unloved and after a while, give up and don the yoke of said beast of burden...


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## Daniel (Apr 17, 2019)

BTW:



> When Couples Separate
> _Public Legal Education Association of Saskatchewan_
> 
> *Spousal Support*
> ...


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## Daniel (Apr 17, 2019)

> He’s driving me up a wall when he says he doesn’t need mental health support, there’s nothing wrong with him.



Then couples counseling may be your best hope (if he goes).   

Or the family doctor approach of mentioning mental-health screening at the next appointment.

The applying-for-disability route may be limited if household income is a factor for eligibility.


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## gooblax (Apr 17, 2019)

I've been watching a bunch of Jordan Peterson videos lately and although I have no idea how much help this will be (if any) I'll just put this one here:


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 20, 2019)

Daniel said:


> They are still responsible for their behavior -- otherwise, who is?



lol ME, apparently! lol


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 20, 2019)

gooblax said:


> I've been watching a bunch of Jordan Peterson videos lately and although I have no idea how much help this will be (if any) I'll just put this one here:




Thank you, gooblax! This was very good! [emoji2][emoji106]


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 20, 2019)

gooblax said:


> I've been watching a bunch of Jordan Peterson videos lately...



Sorry, meant to add more/edit regarding the video, but here’s the rest of my reply, gooblax:

I am very very very patient with him. At first I was too patient. Way too patient.

I haven’t told him that I rewash some of his dishes, for example. If I’m putting away dishes and there are some still dirty, I just put them back in the sink. Or if I do mention, it’s sometime later, like, “Yes, hon, you DO need glasses. I don’t think you can see the food on some of the dishes because of your bad eyesight.” 

If I come in from outside or return from errands he will actually show me he’s done dishes, or vacuumed, or cleaned the toilet: I say “Wow! It looks great in here! Thanks for doing that!” or “Omigosh, this is terrific! I hope you know how much I appreciate that!” *all smiles and hugs and kisses*

When I do dishes I forget about them, or wait until he sees I did them. He usually doesn’t shower me with affection, but I don’t mind: the dishes are done. lol Don’t have to do them later, don’t have to pile more dishes in the sink and have to wash even more dishes.

The video really helped. It very much reminded me that change is tough. And it’s probably a lot tougher than I think. I don’t know, it always seems like I’m the one who has to adapt and be flexible. I feel so worn out from all this constant adapting!! lol

~ (Edited for more explanation/misspellings) ~


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 20, 2019)

Too tired to explain entirely, but I think I finally got through to him.  Somehow.

I’ve been speaking to him quite calmly, no yelling. I did have to leave the house once in the car because of his hostility toward me: can’t remember if I mentioned that day already. I have to isolate myself outside or in another room sometimes, but so far he hasn’t rattled me like that day I cried so hard after returning home from errands that I had to take a tiny piece of clonazepam before I could stop bawling my eyes out.

I have to give him some credit.
He hates it when he makes me cry and feels so bad after that HE cries! lol 

Maybe it’s because now that I am off these stupid ADHD meds that don’t work for me I can actually THINK and act calmly. 

Thank you all for all your info and support! I really appreciate it! I feel so much better after I come here and you all read my gigantic essays and then you even write back!!! lol

I’m glad I came back! Whew!!!


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 24, 2019)

OMG! My husband showed me the screen where he canceled his subscription to “World of Warcraft!” That was yesterday...

Today he said he’s going to call a Physio place. And he DID! He just needs to fill out an online form!

I’m thinking, “What is HAPPENING????”

It’s a miracle!!!!! 

I’m just floored... In the best way possible!!! I didn’t think he would get around to it until after we had dealt with the financial issues. 

He told his friend who had come over yesterday that he was going to wait on that until after we had dealt with the financial issues... But maybe saying that out loud made him start thinking about “Why NOT go to Physio?” I can only speculate that maybe his buddy messaged him. 

David listens to men’s advice over mine or his mom’s...  He calls it “Hen Pecking” when either of us try to talk to him. It’s so annoying. It’s probably because he’s heard things from us so many times that he’s tuned us out, because we’re having conversations pretty much every day (not just advice, but regular discourse, etc). lol 

It’s NOT just nagging when his BUDDIES ask/talk to him about why he does or doesn’t do certain things. It’s not “Hen Pecking” if his male friends encourage/motivate David. 

Do you think it’s because when his friends/mentors echo what we ladies are saying, THEN it hits him that maybe his mom & his wife might be making some sense! lol It makes him stop and think, “Hmmm. Maybe those women in my life really know what they’re talking about once in a while.” lol

Anyone else familiar with this phenomenon??? lol lol

Whatever works. Doesn’t have to be me who convinces him. More power to him if David’s coming back to his old self and coming to these conclusions on his own!

I’m crossing my fingers. [emoji38]






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## Daniel (Apr 24, 2019)

> Anyone else familiar with this phenomenon???


In a way.  If I give my husband any advice regarding how to take better care of his back, etc. it will likely be tossed like yesterday's garbage unless a doctor says it.  Then he gives the doctor all/most of the credit 

And my husband kept saying an adjustable bed wouldn't help his back.    So after a few months, I just bought the adjustable bed anyway   Now he gets out of bed a lot easier with less pain.


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## Daniel (Apr 24, 2019)

> Anyone else familiar with this phenomenon??? lol lol



Going on a tangent, it also reminds me of resistance in therapy. And discussions if resistance should even be a thing, e.g. solution-focused therapy where it is assumed clients are growing/changing all the time, even if the therapist doesn't see it.

But I noticed "whining" about some things to my husband has helped and vice versa.  Kindof like the video Gooblax posted where it helps to make things clear what you want (in addition to the patience-of-a-saint positive reinforcement for incremental changes).


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 25, 2019)

Huh... This puzzles me. I don’t get why anyone wouldn’t want to go to a doctor...  I guess it can depend on the doctor.  And also, I think the reason my husband had delayed Physio for so long is that he’s worried about the pain. Which is understandable...   To a point...


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## Daniel (Apr 25, 2019)

Is he showing any interest at all in an eye exam?


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Apr 25, 2019)

Well, he’s showing a lot more interest in self-care lately, and we already have this big financial thing to deal with and fill out forms and other processes together...  It seems the more I say nothing, the more he eventually does on his own. He mentioned his eyes: “I really should get glasses.” So we might be heading in the right direction there.

I’m more concerned that he hasn’t seen a psychiatrist yet, even though he has a reference. I think he’s up to it, because I think he understands that if he applies for disability or social assistance, they will need proof that he IS trying to get all the help he can get. 

Acknowledging that he needs these things is a huge difference to his defensiveness/denial and saying he’s “fine.” I need to at least TRY not to bringing things up unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks for your concern, Daniel!




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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (May 26, 2019)

Okay. An update!

1.) It feels like my husband and I are moving super-slowly, like swimming in jello to get to our goals.  I’m pretty sure it feels like this because my ADHD usually wants me to go at light speed. However the world doesn’t operate on my preferred speeds very often. lol So the key to me not losing my mind about how “slowly” we are moving toward our goals, is that I need to accept that getting to the destination quickly might not be the best, and it certainly isn’t the ONLY way, of getting there. Are we there yet? How ‘bout now?

2.) I was ahead of the game: submitted my required forms for long term disability benefits from my employer’s insurance/benefits company, Great West Life. It took until yesterday for these ridiculous people to follow through with my claim!!! 

They received my psychiatrist’s 2-page form in which she provided ample information. She even printed off an extra written note as a sort of summary.  This isn’t my first dance with Great West Life. I must say that the case worker who helped me while I was on short term disability was great. But THESE people in this department are not good listeners. 

This GWL department then demanded/expected my psychiatrist’s Consult Notes, which are very very private. They even tried to get her notes from my physician, but because they were marked “Private and Confidential:
Please do not distribute,” my physician’s office could/would not provide them either. 

To prevent myself from several panic attacks, I emailed instead of phoned GWL... And also to provide a paper trail for myself.  I felt I was communicating with idiots! lol 

My psychiatrist finally went above and beyond. I had gotten so exhausted (yet revved up at the same time) that I requested a manager from Great West Life. This didn’t seem to work. I tried passing on Dr. Papish’s instructions. I explained what she had told me: Dr.
Papish couldn’t ethically
just fork over all the consult notes. She required GWL to provide a list of specific questions that she could then answer.


So finally, Dr. Papish got ahold of the manager of my caseworker. And apparently, the manager went along with my doctor. No need for further emails, no need for consult notes. No wonder my head became detached!

2 months of GWL stubbornly refusing to process my claim because my psychiatrist wouldn’t fork over what they wanted. And then, after speaking to my manager, suddenly everything is magically fine and dandy and my claim will be processed!!! Hallelujah!!

I’m trying to just feel relief, and trying to let go of being angry at people who think they are doing a good job when they are being JERKS!!!

3.) Our federal financial advisor recommended David and I change banks due to our credit cards being maxed out and sent to collections.

I did not realize it would take over a month to get all the different companies (ie: car payments, City monthly house tax payments, 
mortgage, etc)  all set up on a new banking system. 

Again, this is something that I could’ve gotten done in a week, maybe 2, if I had made back-to-back phone calls all day long for a couple of days. I don’t know why some companies are happy to take our new banking info over the phone, whereas others require us to fill out forms.  However my psychologist told me NOT to do it all by myself: my husband David had to help. I’m not supposed be doing all these types of things all by myself anymore. My husband, David, is supposed to help! 

Well, GOOD NEWS! I filled out the last form on Friday. I called more than half the places and filled out al then different forms. But David did make a few phone calls: and we’re DONE! THANK GOD! Next week we call our case worker and she can dive in and really help us by talking to the credit card companies and hopefully cut us a good deal!!!

4.) My husband is wonderful! He’s slowly but surely getting things done.  We’re going slow like molasses, but we’re still moving forward. He’s even been surprising me by doing little sweet things around the house that I didn’t expect him to do!!! 

Whew! Just writing that was rather tiring! lol But I wanted to let you know the good news/details!

5.) David has applied for physio and he’s on a waiting list.

6.) just have to get him evaluated by a psychiatrist so that

7.) hopefully he can apply for benefits from social assistance or the government, so that on David’s end, he will have a more equal share of income. It will take the pressure off of my shoulders, for sure!

8.) I would LIKE it if David and I could be adults and deal with this on our own, however, his mom has offered to provide the extra income we need to get by. David has had two guitar students quit. Well, one is moving to another city. The other one might guy come back in the fall. So, although I’d like David and I to work on our own finances, it is very sweet and generous of his mom, and the income is welcome!!!

9.) If David is going to get assistance, he has to be evaluated. He was resistant to go to a psychiatrist, but he will have to in order to get some financial support.

10.) Rewarding ourselves...

11.) Fantastic neighbours next door!!!

12.) Getting out into nature! 

Whew! The End for now! [emoji58] Thank you for listening!!! 






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## forgetmenot (May 26, 2019)

I agree with your assessment of GWL they are ridiculous why hsb job decided to go with them i don't know but really they do not CARE.    I am glad you pushed forward and glad you had a great doctor that helped you get them to listen.  Great work.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (May 26, 2019)

forgetmenot said:


> I agree with your assessment of GWL they are ridiculous why hsb job decided to go with them i don't know but really they do not CARE.    I am glad you pushed forward and glad you had a great doctor that helped you get them to listen.  Great work.



Thank you, FMN! Yes, I don’t know why my employer went with GWL, either. I have heard that some people quit altogether rather than deal with the company. 

My husband used to work for Workers Compensation Board: that place is so toxic. You’d think if one of their own employees was suffering from a really painful repetitive work injury that they’d be empathetic and concerned, but no. David was told to “stop being such a baby” from co-workers.  And when David was getting evaluated (at a city about 3 hours away!) they wanted to do a psychological assessment. But he didn’t want the psychologist to put the findings into his file because WCB processes their own employees claims. Anyone could just pull up his file and spread gossip about it. Some claims seemed to be a subject for the water coolers. WTF? Where’s the respect for privacy? Where’s the compassion?? 

What they should do is tear down all these organizations and start over from the top down... Case workers should have some kind of medical training, maybe psych nurses.  

Maybe it would be better if these private companies were somehow integrated into the whole process of signing in to hospitals.  A person who’s never been injured before could get guidance on how the system works: a liaison, if you will.

It seems ridiculous that people who are already stressed out by physical pain or mental unwellness currently have to navigate the current system WITHOUT a liaison. I mean, it’s akin to torture! Instead of helping you, it feels like they want to set you up to fail.  You’re chasing a moving objective, and if you don’t have an advocate or are incapable of advocating yourself, then it’s detrimental. Might as well come to me trying to keep my body afloat in 20 foot waves in a cold ocean. Unknown creatures below, water crashing down on you, you’re flailing around trying to inhale air instead of water...  And then someone hands you an anchor!!!! [emoji58]


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## David Baxter PhD (May 26, 2019)

Most if not all insurance companies have the same policy and I'm not convinced any of them is really better than the others.

The starting point for all of them is "how can we avoid paying out on this claim?", not "how can we help this claimant?".


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (May 26, 2019)

David Baxter said:


> The starting point for all of them is "how can we avoid paying out on this claim?", not "how can we help this claimant?".



I know. It sucks! The company is SUPPOSED to be there, or most claim, for the customer first. Another sign of a corrupt/sick society - making money off sick and vulnerable people. That’s not insurance, IMHO. That’s “Hey, you pay us money and we’ll pretend to help you save it for Emergencies, but when you really need the money, we’ll search and search until we find some kind of legal loophole or that somehow it’s a pre-existing condition, and we’ll point and laugh and call you ‘SUCKER!’” I’m sure their CEOS enjoy making money and not letting them use their own money. I mean, not until they’re dead, anyway. They withheld needed funds so the person dies, and THEN they give out the money. Maybe. Unless a pre-existing condition caused the death perhaps. They’ll think of something.

The BEST insurance companies do give out money, but it’s like pulling teeth. First you have to go on 7 quests. 

You must slay the Beast of Red Tape, and burn a Giant Paper Tiger...  There is the Room of Doors where if you choose the wrong one you keep finding yourself in the Purgatory Lobby over and over.  The Bureaucreatures that roam about, looking as lost as you are, try to take you down tunnels, chasing rabbits or shove you down into slides where you end up in a pit full of other lost souls like yourself. 

And all you have with which to help navigate is the Misleading Map: a water-stained tome with missing pieces, invisible ink, seemingly contradictory instructions, and ridiculous riddles. All this goes on while somehow you’re trying not falling through the ancient floorboards of Archaic Policies or through the walls of the Pretentious Procedures.

Compasses don’t work here and no one can hear you scream.

It seems the only way you can get through the BS is by finding survivors who are far and few between. And quite understandably some of them have gone a bit mad because of what they’ve been through. So good luck finding someone who’d want to go back in there with you to help you.


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## GaryQ (May 26, 2019)

Great to read you are goig to get your long term disability. It's really sad that some people have to go though all the crap when they are entitled and need that what they pay insurance policies for.

But before you blame it on the company you have to look at the reality of the amount of insurance fraud that happens all the time and to which insurance companies lose enormous amounts of money every year. Just the admistrative costs alone are huge. Claim verifiers and inspectors that they have to pay to go around and then see John Doe doing heavy yeard work when he claims he can't even walk because of his back injury. Others on disabilty doing work under the table. Crooked people are so creative that the list of different insurance fraud schemes would make most people dizzy. 

It's the fraudsters that increase the costs and hassles associated with it all. They are also companies not social welfare programs. They have to look out for the financial wellbeing of the company and at the same time pay benefits to those that rightfully need them. If they can't reduce the financial losses they incur due to insurance fraud the other option is to increase premiums to be able to balance benefit costs and profitability. It's also a very competitive field. If they can't offer competitive prices and good service they lose customers and go out of business.

And then like in every aspect of life there are all kinds of people. WHO has your file is very often the most deciding factor in how you are treated by your company. That can change at any time and is a scary reality. Get one grumpy terminal sphincter or one "I wanna climb the ladder" or one that thinks everyone is a crook and you're in for a hell of a rough ride.

I'm on disabilty with the same company as you since 2010. Long term Since 2011. First I dealt with someone out of the London, Ontario office. She would call me regularly and check up while on short term. She never harassed me or left any doubt that she thought my claim was not legit and was actually helpful and kind. She was professional and made me go through the legal paperwork and my doctor took care of the important part of the paperwork. Then years back they transferred my file to Winnipeg. It has never been the same name on the paperwork I get from them. I spoke to 1 person once in all those years and it was me that called about changing my marital status. 

But sadly all that can change with one person taking over my file. A major part of my anxiety results from it. I still have over 8 years to go before 65 so anything can change for the worse. So far I have been blessed and every year or two when I go thorugh a panic period that lasts months (Just went through one from December to April) when the paperwork requests come in and my doc always has to respond to my fears with: "There's no possibility of you ever being able to go back to working. Haven't  I always taken care of making sure you continue to get your disabilty?"


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (May 27, 2019)

Well, that’s awesome that you have a kick-ass doctor like mine! [emoji106]

The hold up for my case was because GWL would not accept what my psychiatrist said until she called them directly and spoke to a manager. She had already faxed, emailed, and called my caseworker but was getting nowhere. I tried over and over on my end: I repeated what my psychiatrist told me. My psych doctor felt she had provided several pages of documentation for them on the required application. She felt it was not ethical to provide them with the private consultation notes. Furthermore, she told them several times: send me a very specific list of any questions you want answered. 

If the caseworker had asked her manager right away, and if the manager had actually looked at my doctors emails and faxes, it would’ve been done in 2 weeks. I had taken great care to apply well ahead of the deadline. My manager, our Health Services Department, myself, AND my doctor had filled out all the forms and sent them in almost 2 weeks earlier than the actual deadline.

Sure, there was a delay of a week before the case was sent to GWL because one of the departments was short-staffed (combination of vacations & people calling in sick with the flu)...  

Also I don’t have unlimited insurance. I believe there is a limit of three years ( I have to double-check) as this same mental health issue happened to me during the time when David had cancer. 

Once my work insurance runs out, if I am still unable to work, I’d have to either apply for unemployment insurance, or social assistance, or something like that.

But I’m not sure of myself. If I’ve muddled through life and somehow managing not to get fired at this job, maybe once things are more manageable, I could go back to work again... 

It’s somewhat stressful, but I now have so many accommodations & restrictions in place at work that the only thing I really need to do is get to work on time, try to take my breaks & lunch on schedule, and leave on time...

It’s just currently my husband and I had to come to terms with our finances, marriage, and me with my somewhat newly diagnosed ADHD for which I’ve never had coaching/assistance with until now. And also I’ve been so burned out that I’m not sure I’ve completely processed that I have a learning disability. My husband was so sick for so long that I’m trying to unstick myself from the role of doing everything for David, and David is slowly becoming more and more helpful around the house, with finances. I still find it difficult to remember to ask for help from him. I was starting to feel like I was his mother and that he was a child, but now he’s definitely stepping up as I’m not trying to control everything including his autonomy!

Anyway, I’m starting to go off on a tangent here... Again!  lol So thanks for listening. I am really glad you have the support you need.  Thank you for responding! [emoji846][emoji106]




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## GaryQ (May 29, 2019)

That's great that the possibility of having accomodations at work is available. As long as there's life there's hope!


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## timothynates (Jul 15, 2019)

Having a good knowledge on family law is really helpful in this issue.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jul 15, 2019)

Yes: I have accommodations. Mind you I don’t know if they’ve all been met.  Which is why I’m going to hopefully have my ADHD coach come and have a look at where I work.


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