# Did I cause a psychosis? Is it my fault?



## petite_lady_marie

Hi all.

I'm having a really bad time 

I've never talked to a doctor about this, but I think I may be depressive or suffering some other disorder from since I can remember. I feel sad most of the time and for no reason. I think a lot about suicide.

I have a boyfriend for 5 years now. I love him very much. However, when things get hotter I tend to get away from him. It seems to be hard for me to let him touch me in more intimate places. Do you have any idea why? I don't feel like having relations with him any more.. but I don't want him to be out of my life.

I tried to talk to him about my possible depression.. but he didn't quite listen. 

About a year ago I went to work at this company and became friends with a male colleague. A few months ago our friendship began to grow and we became really close. I told him about my feelings. At first he said "forget it" and I was very hurt. After a while he got more understanding and supportive and he seemed to really care about me. When I was feeling the end of the world was upon me and only wanted to die, he was there... and that gave me much hope. One day he said we were more than friends. I called him crazy... But then.. we kissed. And it didn't happen only once.. We even almost made love. I had to resist. We already went too far. I couldn't do that to the boyfriend I love.. But after all I kissed another man! Was it as wrong as I think it was? Specially my friend is married and has kids! I never thought I would do something like this. Before it happened to me I would judge this in a severe way. However, I believe I didn't began loving my boyfriend any less.. I just began loving a friend a bit more.. Is it possible to love more than one?

Something happend recently. My friend became very weird.. He was psychotic. His relationship was going through a bad stage and he suspected his wife was seeing someone else. He was very obsessed about it. He got sick (I think the doctor's diagnosis was actually psychosis) and he is now on license for 2 weeks.. He was also not sleeping well. He'd fall asleep but then wakeup a few hours later and he couldn't sleep anymore. He began taking pills which didn't seem to help either.

I believe this is all my fault. It's my fault because I'm sure he felt guilty about us as I do. It's my fault because I asked him often how our partners would be feeling about this, how they would suffer. It's my fault because I kept saying "what if our lovers had someone else instead? how would we feel?" I belive he started wondering about it.. And became totally obsessed. He wasn't even as gentle as he was before with me.. Yet, we always said we had to stop.. or we had to tell our lovers, but we couldn't do either.. I need him so badly.. He was such a positive person and now he scares me.. I guess it's also my fault for bringing to his live my negative thoughts.. 

Now he's at home resting and he wouldn't even talk to me. It seems I only cause pain to those I love. Pain to my boyfriend even though he doesn't know, pain to him also because of not being open to the intimacy he desires. Pain to my dear friend because of all this.. I can't handle this anymore. I need him so much.. What should I do?? I can't see how to help my friend.. and I don't know what to do about my boyfriend. Help me please.. It feels like the only way is to let myself die.. Everyone would be better without me causing so much pain.. I didn't win anything.. I just may have lost a precious friend and endangered my relationship. I do it all wrong. I'm a lonely person, I guess I was meant to be alone.. I just wish I'd never been born..

Sorry for such a long post.. I just needed to talk and I have no one else but you..


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## just mary

Hi Marie,

Sorry you're feeling so bad right now.  You sound like you're in a very tough spot right now and I'm glad you posted.  It's good that you can come here and talk about these things.

I want to stress however that you didn't cause his psychosis, I don't believe anyone can cause another person's psychosis.  It's good that he's seeing a doctor though and getting treatment.  He may need to be alone right now, in order to get rest and feel better. I really don't think you should blame yourself.

Perhaps a little distance between the two of you might help and put things in perspective.  Maybe you could talk with your boyfriend and try to figure out what's going in your relationship.  

I went through something similar and the only thing that worked for me was to end it, completely.  It hurt, it was painful and I felt so much guilt.  It took awhile for me to resolve the experience.  But I did it with the help of a counsellor and my doctor.  It takes time.

I hope this helps. :heart:

Take care,

jm


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## Retired

Marie,

I would suggest you terminate the relationship with the work colleague, as it appears, to my lay and un professional eye, this man has issues of his own.

Even worse, it almost seems he may have tried to manipulate you into a romantic situation.  Taking into consideration this is a married man with children, and perhaps he recognized you were having feelings of depression and perhaps feeling vulnerable, his actions were unforgivable..

It would appear he took advantage of your honesty and vulnerability during your difficult time.

Now we add to the recipe the fact that he is experiencing some sort of personal crisis, which includes suspecting his wife is cheating on him!

Oh..but if he would have cheated on his wife by having an affair with you, I suppose he would have felt this was OK??? :bonk:

Marie, this is a recipe for trouble, for you, which you do not need during this time  when you need competent professional counseling yourself.



> I've never talked to a doctor about this, but I think I may be depressive or suffering some other disorder from since I can remember..



Why have you hesitated speaking to your doctor about your feelings of depression?  

 Depression is a treatable illness. and is an illness just like any other medical condition such as diabetes or myopia.

_Our bodies sometimes need a tune up, to bring us back to factory condition._  :wink:

Your doctor can help you with this, and if your present doctor is not interested, then find another doctor.

Do you have easy access to a mental health facility in the place where you live?


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## David Baxter PhD

Let me just reiterate what the others have said, Marie: There is no way you could have caused a psychotic reaction in your colleague. It simply is not possible.

I would also agree that you should seriously consider getting some help for your depression. Depression is a very treatable condition and there really is no reason for you to suffer unecesssarily.


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## petite_lady_marie

Hi all. 

Thank you so much for your replies. I'll be needing some time to read them more carefully, as I'm at work right now.. 

I can't seem to focus! I keep thinking about my friend. I want to see him so badly... To check how he's doing and all. 
Perhaps I'll leave earlier today and visit him or ask him to meet me somewhere.. Although I'm not sure he'd want to see me at all.

What should I do? Should I go??  Would it be worse for both of us? Should I leave him alone? Should I give him time? 
If it was me instead, I'd want him to visit me.. But he's not even talking to me 

I can't keep spending my time wondering about him (I should be working..). 
I care a lot about him and he is a good person. Inspite everything, I still want us to be dear friends..


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## David Baxter PhD

I think I'd be inclined to give him space right now. First, he's likely not himself at the moment (and perhaps wasn't when he kissed you either). Second, he may be embarrassed about his behavior and may need time to sort that out.


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## petite_lady_marie

David Baxter said:


> I think I'd be inclined to give him space right now. First, he's likely not himself at the moment (and perhaps wasn't when he kissed you either). Second, he may be embarrassed about his behavior and may need time to sort that out.



You're probably right, but it's just so hard to stay away. When he first kissed me he was completely different from what he is now. I believe he was "healthy" back then.. He said he just followed his feelings and was as confused as I was.. 
Ok.. I'm sure it's not natural to kiss another person when you're married but.. Or perhaps there was already something wrong with him indeed.. But what about me? What's my excuse?
Later on I kissed him back.. and several times I was the one taking the first step.. Should I be embarrassed too? I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to feel about all this.. 


I'm such a mess..


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## David Baxter PhD

I'm not going to pass judgement on you or him or anyone else, Marie. Each of us has to make our own decisions about what is acceptable or unacceptable (short of breaking the law or deliberately setting out to hurt other people, of course).

What I will say, though, is that as difficult as it is for you to let go it's probably the best thing to do to avoid additional hurt. From what you say, I don't see a future for you with him and I don't see it ending well if you continue to pursue him.


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## petite_lady_marie

I feel my life is hanging by a thread..

He is my friend and as I found out from other colleagues he is in a pretty bad shape. No matter what may have happened, I though he'd be needing a friend by is side..

Today I couldn't take it anymore. I asked him to meet me but he didn't answer. I decided to go. I traveled some distance to see him.. I was feeling so nervous. At first I was sure he wouldn't be there but then a glimpse of optimism invaded me and I knew we would talk and I would be so much better.. 

I should have listened to Dr Baxter... He didn't show up. I tried to call him, maybe he hadn't seen my text messages... He didn't answer. I began feeling so anxious and nervous.. I though something was wrong.. I went to his place. I stood in front of the door for a long time. I received a text message from him saying: "I'm not well yet. If you don't want me to get worse please go away.. I can't see you for now.." 

When I read this by heart was torn to pieces. I was selfish and I though.. what about me?? I won't feel any better if I don't see you? How do I feel after knowing this? How do I feel after he didn't show up? I walked without a course for a while.. I cried and I laughed.. I looked at the railway and I felt like going under a fast train.. I just want to die.. Why didn't he want to see me??? WHY?? can anyone tell me?? I'm his friend! I was on vacations last week when he colapsed.. but when we said goodbye he wasn't mad at me or anything.. Before his colapse he had left me a message (which I only saw this week, unfortunately) saying "I really need to talk to you".. what changed?? why wont he talk to be now???  This means he blames me for everything! I would make him worse??? How???! Its the only explanation... i'm guilty for his condition.. his paranoia, his psychosis.. 

And after all he was my confident. He was the one I trusted when feelings of depression were rising.. He even wanted to take me to the doctor, now it's him who's attending psychiatrists!! What's happening???? 

Please talk to me.. anyone.. I have no one else to talk to... I'm in total despair.. I don't know if I'll take this anymore. Today I did the last thing I thought would have helped me.. He was my last change.. Now I have nothing holding me on to life. He was the only person willing to help me in my sad miserable life.. and all I did was to turn him into me. It seems he gather all my "psycho crisis" into a short period of time and just collapsed.. he was such a strong person.. He would always come after me when I disappeared. He knew I might try something in order to end my life.. And that was such a blessing.. I though deep in my heart, that right now he also needed me to go after him.. I needed him to need me. But all he seems to need is me out of his life.. I'm lost... 

i cannot go on.. i need my guardian angel.. please send him to me! do they exist?? please i need him so much... please save me.. please... please.. because here on earth the only person who could just sent me away... and i'm sure he hates me.. and i can't forgive myself for what i did to him.. i should had never tried to get close to anyone. i always end up causing pain.. but it never got to such an extent.

please let me die.. if there is a Higher Power who gave me to life.. please take it.. i dont want it anymore..  

where are you my angel.. will you save me??? i cant see you.. why cant i see you?? my stomach hurts so much... i've had dyarrhea all week since monday... my head hurts.. my heart is broken.. I cant do anything.. 

i want to let myself die..  the only reason i didn't kill myself already today is because i think it might leave him worse.. would he feel guilty? would this cause him permanent damage? i dont want that.. and my other love ones.. they would be sad... If i could just die spontaneously... But they would be better in time, i'm sure.. so much better without me.. yes.. they would be happier.. they'd be sad for a while, but then i would soon be forgotten and their lives would be so much better.. 

i wish i had never been born.. at least my friend wouldn't be like this right now.. i wish had never been born... please.. make that true.. make me unborn..

is there anyone there?? please.. just say something... please... 

how i wish my friend felt sorry and would come to me... no.. no angel could save me.. only him..


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## Cat Dancer

I am so sorry for your pain and for what you are going through. I don't have words of advice, just know that I read your post and my heart is with you at this time. 

Try to take care of yourself.


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## petite_lady_marie

Thank you Janet..  for your kind words.

It's a pleasant evening here.. It's warm and there's a soft breeze outside. The sky looks beautiful.. Venus is sitting side by side with Saturn and they both face Jupiter across the sky.. 

I'm looking towards infinity.. the sky is so deep.. it leaves me wondering what lays ahead? What's hides in there? Where my eyes only see black.. other worlds, other beings could exist.. maybe looking up themselves and wondering aswell... It makes you want to know.. but it also gives you freedom, it gives you the sweet delight of uncertainty, where all can be imagined.. and where the imagined can be possible..


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## Retired

Marie,

It sounds like you may need some local support, someone who can point you in a direction to prevent you from self destructing during this time of crisis in your life.

Do you have family members that you could visit, and with whom you can express your concerns?



> I have a boyfriend for 5 years now. I love him very much.



Is this man still a part of your life?  Is he someone you could speak to?



> I've never talked to a doctor about this, but I think I may be depressive or suffering some other disorder from since I can remember. I feel sad most of the time and for no reason. I think a lot about suicide


.

Perhaps this might be a good time to seek out some help from a medical professional.  Do you have access to a local crisis telephone line where you could discuss your thoughts of suicide.

If you are having these thoughts, Marie, you need to find a way to keep yourself safe until you can get professional help.

This is where visiting a relative or friend until you can see a doctor would be in your best interest.

Your depression and thoughts of suicide are conditions which can be treated by a doctor.  There is no reason to be embarrassed to ask for help, and with treatment your ability to think clearly and make the right decisions will improve.


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## petite_lady_marie

Hello Steve. Thank you..

No, I can't speak to any family member. 
Yes, the boyfriend I refer to is still part of my life. I cannot talk to him about this.. I tried to talk to him about depression, he didn't listen. Now it's too late.. and besides it involves my relationship to this other man.. which makes it even worse.

I have this other close friend.. Same thing. Tried to talk once, wouldn't listen..

I have no one to talk to.
The only person who would listen is precisely that friend who's now ill... and didn't want to see me today 

I don't think I have the courage to go to the doctor by my own initiative.. I know I need professional help very much.. That friend was going to help me with that, but I've just ruined everything and now I'm all alone

I can't understand why he didn't want to see me  What did I do? Doesn't he worry about me? He knows how I usually feel.. how can he do this to me.. am i being selfish? ..  i suppose i am..

I even had a gift for him I bought during my vacations.. I feel so frustrated.. You can't imagine how I felt after he said he wouldn't meet me.. So abandoned, so lost.. so meaningless.. i felt i was nothing to him.. nothing good at least..


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## David Baxter PhD

petite_lady_marie said:


> I went to his place. I stood in front of the door for a long time. I received a text message from him saying: "I'm not well yet. If you don't want me to get worse please go away.. I can't see you for now.."
> 
> When I read this by heart was torn to pieces. I was selfish and I though.. what about me?? I won't feel any better if I don't see you? How do I feel after knowing this? How do I feel after he didn't show up? I walked without a course for a while.. I cried and I laughed.. I looked at the railway and I felt like going under a fast train.. I just want to die.. Why didn't he want to see me??? WHY?? can anyone tell me?? I'm his friend! I was on vacations last week when he colapsed.. but when we said goodbye he wasn't mad at me or anything.. Before his colapse he had left me a message (which I only saw this week, unfortunately) saying "I really need to talk to you".. what changed?? why wont he talk to be now???  This means he blames me for everything! I would make him worse??? How???! Its the only explanation... i'm guilty for his condition.. his paranoia, his psychosis..



No, of course it's not the only explanation. It's not even a likely explanation. The explanation is that he is ill, knows he is ill, and knows he cannot deal with anything else but his illness at the moment.



petite_lady_marie said:


> And after all he was my confident. He was the one I trusted when feelings of depression were rising.. He even wanted to take me to the doctor, now it's him who's attending psychiatrists!! What's happening????



He is ill. He has suffered a psychotic break.



petite_lady_marie said:


> Please talk to me.. anyone.. I have no one else to talk to... I'm in total despair.. I don't know if I'll take this anymore. Today I did the last thing I thought would have helped me.. He was my last chance..



No. There is no one person anywhere in the universe who is your last chance... except you. YOU are your last chance.



petite_lady_marie said:


> where are you my angel.. will you save me??? i cant see you.. why cant i see you?? my stomach hurts so much... i've had dyarrhea all week since monday... my head hurts.. my heart is broken.. I cant do anything..
> 
> i want to let myself die..  the only reason i didn't kill myself already today is because i think it might leave him worse.. would he feel guilty? would this cause him permanent damage? i dont want that.. and my other love ones.. they would be sad... If i could just die spontaneously... But they would be better in time, i'm sure.. so much better without me.. yes.. they would be happier.. they'd be sad for a while, but then i would soon be forgotten and their lives would be so much better..
> 
> i wish i had never been born.. at least my friend wouldn't be like this right now.. i wish had never been born... please.. make that true.. make me unborn..



You are feeling the pain of thinking you have lost your friend and lover. It is normal to feel this way. Everyone of us has felt that way at one time or another. But it is not a reason to die. To begin with, you don't know that you have even lost him. All you know is that he is ill.



petite_lady_marie said:


> how i wish my friend felt sorry and would come to me... no.. no angel could save me.. only him..



You don't need an angel to save you. You don't need him to save you. You only need you to save you.


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## petite_lady_marie

David Baxter said:


> You don't need an angel to save you. You don't need him to save you. You only need you to save you.



I'm unable to think that way.. 
I can't work, I have to be strong to smile in front of my family when I'm crying inside, I have to be nice to my boyfriend and make sure he doesn't suspect I'm suffering (although when I'm with him I feel a bit better).. 

I don't have what it takes to fight for my self. To my eyes I'm worth nothing. I recognize you're right, but for all my life I couldn't do that for me. I won't save me.. i'm not strong enough. If I was a lion I would sit in the shade waiting for some other lion to share a piece of his meat and bring it to me.. or else i'd starve to death.. Not because i'm lazy, just because i dont think i'm worth the effort.. I just lay down and feel miserable.. and i stay that way, unless someone comes and picks me up..

i have no will power at all...


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## Cat Dancer

I think you have a lot of strength and courage to write about this all here. You can use some of that strength and courage to find some help for yourself. Depression is very treatable and you can get your life back on track. 

You can save yourself.


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## David Baxter PhD

Sometimes, it's enough - for a while anyway - to keep going for others when you don't believe yourself that you are worth the effort.


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## petite_lady_marie

Janet said:


> I think you have a lot of strength and courage to write about this all here. You can use some of that strength and courage to find some help for yourself.



It's easier when i'm writing instead of talking. Even to my friend, when i wanted to speak about certain things i had to write them, otherwise no words would come out of my mouth. Often i would even write it as poems instead of going straight to the subject.. it's just too hard for me.

If i have this kind of difficulty with a close friend, i can't imagine saying a single word to an unknow person.. 

Here you dont know who i am. you are far. and we're not talking face to face.. If we were i would shut my self down.. no one would ever know ;(

I'd like to ask a question, i've been feeling like this for a long time. There was no traumatic event that cause it.. 

Is it possible to be born depressive, or with any other such similar mental illness? Can depression last for an entire life?

Is it possible to lose mental capabilities (intelligence i mean)?


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## David Baxter PhD

petite_lady_marie said:


> Here you dont know who i am. you are far. and we're not talking face to face.. If we were i would shut my self down.. no one would ever know ;(



That's one of the prime reasons I started this forum.



petite_lady_marie said:


> I'd like to ask a question, i've been feeling like this for a long time. There was no traumatic event that cause it..
> 
> Is it possible to be born depressive, or with any other such similar mental illness? Can depression last for an entire life?



Not depression _per se_. But the vulnerability to depression is part of the personality. And it's not all bad. The same traits that make you vulnerable to depression also make you more sensitive to your own feelings and the feelings of others, more empathic, etc. - more the kind of person other people want as a friend or partner.

The key is to learn how to harness the positive aspects of those personality traits and manage the more destructive aspects.



petite_lady_marie said:


> Is it possible to lose mental capabilities (intelligence i mean)?



No.


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## just mary

Hi Marie,

I just wanted to echo what Janet, Dr. Baxter and TSOW have said.  You can save yourself and talking about these feelings is a good start



> Is it possible to be born depressive, or with any other such similar mental illness?



I believe some of us may have a genetic predisposition and when combined with other external factors, we might develop depression or other illnesses more easily than someone else who doesn't.  But I think the jury is still out on this one, we don't really know for sure what causes it.  

But we do have many methods of dealing with depression, there are a lot of medications and different types of therapy to help people.  It's just finding the right combination and it is hard work to do this.  It takes courage to take that first step and to continue when things get rough.  So many people on this forum have done it though and there is a wealth of information here. 

You've already started trying to help yourself though, by posting here and opening up.  Even if it's behind a computer screeen, it still takes guts to put your emotions up here.  You're doing a good job.

Take care,

jm


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## petite_lady_marie

David Baxter said:


> That's one of the prime reasons I started this forum.



And I thank you so much for that. And thank you all for replying to me.. at least i got my mind distracted and felt a bit of support..



David Baxter said:


> Not depression _per se_. But the vulnerability to depression is part of the personality. And it's not all bad. The same traits that make you vulnerable to depression also make you more sensitive to your own feelings and the feelings of others, more empathic, etc. - more the kind of person other people want as a friend or partner.
> 
> The key is to learn how to harness the positive aspects of those personality traits and manage the more destructive aspects.



I do believe i'm extra sensitive to everything. With people, animals, everything. But it's just too painfull.. I cant feel "the good vibes".. All it brings is sorrow and sadness... There's so much harm around us, people hurting other people, people hurting animals, this planet being destroyed.. I often thing about all that (one of the reasons it takes me forever to fall asleep..).. I feel hopeless and helpless.. I feel sad...

Concerning the intelligence question, I used to be a very bright student. I loved Mathematics and Physics and everything was so easy.. At some point i lost interest and motivation for knowledge. It seems i found it wasn't fulfilling, i don't know. i was always alone and i never felt understood. i lacked human afection.. i was always feeling sad (well, still am eitherway..)
So i turned down the head and went for the heart.. Now i have trouble focusing, memorizing, and especially mantaining interest in anything. At work everything seems so dificult to learn, and i feel so tired all the time and without motivation.. I lost the head, and i still didn't win the heart..


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## Cat Dancer

I just wanted to add that I started my journey to healing by writing on this forum. I never, never thought I could find someone to open up to in real life and I wrote on this forum about my life for almost two years before I finally got the courage to actually go to a therapist and talk out loud about my problems. I found someone who is very kind-hearted and a good listener and who is truly helping me in my long journey to wellness. So I can relate to the difficulties you write about in opening up in real life, but I did it. It can be done. I wouldn't recommend waiting for two years though. I have also struggled with depression and anxiety for most of my life. You don't need to suffer anymore. Be proactive and take charge of your life and try to find someone to help you. There are wonderful people out there who want to help and are waiting to help.


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## petite_lady_marie

Janet said:


> Be proactive and take charge of your life and try to find someone to help you. There are wonderful people out there who want to help and are waiting to help.



I'll try Janet.. Sometimes i feel better, and i do want to do something to change my life for i cannot keep going like this. But my mood is like a rolercoaster.. 

this week was so hard. i kept counting every minute till the moment i'd see him again.. that's why i couldn't follow Dr Baxter's advice of staying away. i had to do something, i couldn't spend one more day like this, and in the end it got only worse..

i don't know what to do for this week. 

it's what i always do. 
i see some who needs, i go for rescue.. not only for that who needs, but for me aswell.. by helping i feel helped. by making happy i feel happy. that's the only way..

one day i woke up and, as i usually like to do, i went to the garden beautifully filled with pink flowers. i notice a butterfly caught on a spider's web. poor butterfly, so white and fragile.. she was with her wings open, suspended. maybe she believe she was still flying. she was alive! i had to help her.. i picked up a small leaf and tried to release her.. the more i pulled, the more she got rolled up.. her wings got completely entangled.. 
she was released of the web, but she was not saved. i made a spider loose a meal, and made a butterfly suffer a death fighting to release her wings. she kept struggling to strech them.. 

this is what i do.


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## Retired

> I don't think I have the courage to go to the doctor by my own initiative.. I know I need professional help very much..



Marie,

Perhaps by talking about why you are reluctant to speak with your doctor at this time, others here on Psychlinks my be able to share their own insights about when they felt the same way, and how they eventually found the courage to make the call.

Have a look at this Psychlinks posting for some ideas.

Then have a look at this NIMH page for some insights into the illness of depression.

Bear in mind that depression is an illness, which affects a large percentage of the population.  There is no shame in calling your doctor for help, and if your doctor should not judge you in any way.

If you had diabetes or thyroid problem, you would probably not hesitate to call.  Depression is a chemical imbalance in the body and is an illness or disorder just like diabetes or thyroid dysfunction.

Do you get along satisfactorily with your doctor?


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## petite_lady_marie

TSOW said:


> Marie,
> 
> Perhaps by talking about why you are reluctant to speak with your doctor at this time, others here on Psychlinks my be able to share their own insights about when they felt the same way, and how they eventually found the courage to make the call.
> 
> Have a look at this Psychlinks posting for some ideas.
> 
> Then have a look at this NIMH page for some insights into the illness of depression.
> 
> Bear in mind that depression is an illness, which affects a large percentage of the population.  There is no shame in calling your doctor for help, and if your doctor should not judge you in any way.
> 
> If you had diabetes or thyroid problem, you would probably not hesitate to call.  Depression is a chemical imbalance in the body and is an illness or disorder just like diabetes or thyroid dysfunction.
> 
> Do you get along satisfactorily with your doctor?



Hi Steve.

I already explained it a bit. It's hard for me to talk about my feelings to others.. Even to my closest friend. I can't even be open with my own boyfriend.. Words just don't come out. If i write it down it's easier. Sometimes i'd write things down and then ask my friend to read it.. However, it would take me quite a dose of courage just to show him my writings. I find it to be very intimate, and i dont's easialy share it. And when I think saying this face to face to an unknown... 

Besides this, going to the doctor also requires you to have will to get better. To feel you're worth the effort. I dont usually feel like this. Either i dont believe i'll get better, or i'm so used to being like this that i became afraid to change. Most of all, i really thing i may be afraid that this wont stop.. and so i'd loose my last hope.

Not all people think like that. Lots of people i know say those people are weak. Some say depression is not a real illness.. People poor in spirit tend to go that way. I'm not embarrassed i guess, but i don't why i don't want anyone to find out.. maybe because it involves feelings, and as i said i'm not too fond of openning myself to others..

Thanks for the links, i'll check them out.

I feel a bit ashamed now. Actually the last time i went to the doctor was more than 10 years ago (and i'm in my 20's).. I dont like going to the doctor, i hate everything that's invasive to my system.. like needles! I never had blood tests..  So, i'm not exactly at ease with my doctor (or any other) right now..  I hardly remember his face.. 

I was also checking out psychologists.. They're just so expensive.. 
Would you recommend seeing a medical doctor or a psychologist/therapist?

Where are you? I need you, can't you feel me?
Hear me please, hear my cry.. 
I'm so sad.. I don't know what to do. Tears are falling.. All diamonds in the world i would refuse, all fame, all glory, everything.. for all i need is you.. Hear me please! Why won't you hear me?? Stop thinking about yourself and look at me! Face me!
What I wouldn't give for the gentle comfort of your hand on my hair..


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## David Baxter PhD

petite_lady_marie said:


> Why won't you hear me?? Stop thinking about yourself and look at me! Face me!



You're missing the point, Marie. He HAS to think about himself right now. He has had a serious breakdown. He needs to heal from that before he can do anything else, for anyone else.

You will have to find another way to cope.


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## petite_lady_marie

David Baxter said:


> You're missing the point, Marie. He HAS to think about himself right now. He has had a serious breakdown. He needs to heal from that before he can do anything else, for anyone else.




Why will he talk to anyone else, why will he see anyone else but me? I have to find out how he is doing through other colleagues.. This breaks my heart. Why didn't he tell me before that he didn't want to see me? Why did he let me go to the front of his door? Do you imagine how painfull it was? :tearyeyed:
In times like these, shouldn't we want our dearest next to us? Shouldn't we look for support in our love ones? At least I know I want him around when I'm feeling down... Unless, like I said, he blames me for everything.. 
I know we all have different ways to deal with our pain, but...

This is what i'd like to do to him, so much: :hug:




David Baxter said:


> You will have to find another way to cope.


There is no way. I don't no how to do this without him.. What if I can't take it anymore? What if I breakdown while he is still healing himself.. what if I end my life.. then there would be no turnning back.. sometimes i'm afraid of myself and he is the only one who can stop me from doing anything stupid.. how can I deal with this??!

I know he has to think about himself.. I know.. it's just my heart that doesn't.
Forgive me if I don't sound very reasonable at times.. my selfish anguish speaks first


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## Daniel

> I don't no how to do this without him..



You can see a therapist, which is more likely to be effective, anyway.

Regarding expense, some therapists offer sliding scale fees, especially at university and government-sponsored clinics.  If there is a large public university in your area,  chances are they may have a psychology clinic for the public (non-students).

Also:



> The majority of working Americans are covered under employer-provided health insurance plans.
> 
> Resources for the uninsured:
> 
> * Community-based resources: Many communities have community mental health centers (CMHCs). These centers offer a range of mental health treatment and counseling services, usually at a reduced rate for low-income people.
> 
> * Pastoral Counseling: Your church or synagogue can put you in touch with a pastoral counseling program. Certified pastoral counselors, who are ministers in a recognized religious body, have advanced degrees in pastoral counseling, as well as professional counseling experience. Pastoral counseling is often provided on a sliding-scale fee basis.
> 
> * Self-help groups: Another option is to join a self-help or support group. Such groups give people a chance to learn about, talk about, and work on their common problems, such as alcoholism, substance abuse, depression, family issues, and relationships. Self-help groups are generally free and can be found in virtually every community in America. Many people find them to be effective.
> 
> * Public assistance: People with severe mental illness may be eligible for several forms of public assistance, both to meet the basic costs of living and to pay for health care. Examples of such programs are Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
> 
> http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/publications/allpubs/KEN98-0050/default.asp


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## petite_lady_marie

Daniel said:


> You can see a therapist, which is more likely to be effective, anyway.
> 
> Regarding expense, some therapists offer sliding scale fees, especially at university and government-sponsored clinics. If there is a large public university in your area, chances are they may have a psychology clinic for the public (non-students).
> 
> Quote:
> "The majority of working Americans are covered under employer-provided health insurance plans."



I'm not American 

I'm not yet covered by my employer's health insurance. I have a shared insurance with my parents. As I don't want them to find out about my condition (or anyone else...) I can't use that insurance. Therefore, I believe I'll have to go (if I go, anyway..) to a private clinic, and pay hard.

But thanks a lot for your tips Daniel. I'll try to see if there are any alternatives, as you suggested.

Today my friend finally called me.

I'm falling down.

He began by saying it was all over between the two of us.. (hard to listen, even though I knew and kept saying that to him we couldn't be lovers)

He said he's on recovery now, and that the doctors really help him a lot. That I should seek for help my self... He also added that he had to ask for help to those around him, his family, his friends, the people at hospital.. and talking to them, talking about his problems was also a major step. 

He said he talked to his wife about everything. That our relationship had been a mistake, that he should had been strong enough.. 
He said he was only talking to me because he's wife asked him to. She wants to make sure nothing more will happen between the two of us.

I asked him how he felt about me, how he would feel if he didn't see me anymore.. By the sound of his voice, and the way he was talking to me, I knew.. Then he just said his wife, of course, would like he'd never lay eyes on me again.. But he wouldn't hurt me like that. He never said he, himself, needed to see me.. because he still cared for me.. and we were still friends. He said he wouldn't be sad or happy if he didn't see me again.. I guess I'm indifferent to him now.

His explanation about his state was that he was doing something wrong (his relationship with me) and so his brain, his system, began crashing down. He is smoking again (he wasn't smoking for many years now).. he says its the only thing that calms him down.. Maybe I should try too... He said he became a real paranoid and for times even hallucinated. He is now healling.. 

I know he blames me. When I asked him "was it my fault?" he said "i dont know, i dont know"..  Sure he does. It's my fault.. Curious thing is, when I left for my hollidays, he was worried about his wife cheating on him.. He said he wasn't sleeping or feeling weel because we was obsessed with it. I thought by giving him human afection, by being kind to him, by talking to him (i always said he wasn't being reasonable) I was helping him... I realise now I was already the cause of this obsession. Weeks before we got suspicious someone might had found out about us, and we felt kind of bad.. 
But we was always strong, and comforted me. I guess this was when it started. He wasn't true.. he was feeling really bad.

So, I suppose I did cause a psychosis..
I asked him "will we still be friends?" .. he answered "of course, of course... just not close friends anymore..". 

He said I had to go for my family and friends for support, meaning he won't be doing that for me anymore... He was my only friend close enough to now about my situation. I don't have anyone. I'm alone once again..

I said he is still very dear to me.. he answered "sure.. but i'm with the woman i love now, she's the one him supposed to be with, and my children.." he said this a thousand times. I know this.. I was the first person (as amazing as it seems) to say it to him.. Well.. but this still strangely hurts.. I feel secondary, I feel I don't matter..

I lost my last hope of salvation.. After the phone call I had a "lunatic" crisis.. I did stupid things like scratching myself, pulling hair, hitting my head.. I even cut a piece of my hair... and I cried..  and I thought I couldn't live anymore.
The only thing that's keeping me from ending up my life is what he said.. He said if did anything like that, I would destroy him completly forever. I'm sure he just said that to keep me from doing anything... but anyway...

I don't know how I'll handle this week. Now I don't think of killing my self..

I think I'll have to tell everything to my boyfriend and then I'll be alone. I should be alone.. I always said I had this curse, maybe there are past lives and I must have been someone really bad to others.. because now, everytime I go close to someone, things go wrong.. and we all suffer. I will be alone. Alone with my saddness, alone with my pain, alone with my feelings.. That's how I'm supposed to be. Maybe I'll runaway somewhere.. I'll just go away, I'll just leave and be alone forever. I've been left alone with my sorrow.. No one can ever help me now. I'm alone.

I'm feelling really bad now.. I don't know if i'll make through tomorrow.. There's no hope for me in this world.. there's no hope for me in this life, maybe i shall try the next one...


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## Daniel

> As I don't want them to find out about my condition (or anyone else...) I can't use that insurance. Therefore, I believe I'll have to go (if I go, anyway..) to a private clinic, and pay hard.



I remember being insured with my parent's insurance plan when I was younger.   The only way my parents knew I was seeing a doctor under the insurance plan was because I told them.  Granted, parents can call the insurance company and inquire, but that is not something most parents do.

Anyway, in most cases, it's beneficial if the parents are aware that one of their children is having psychological issues since family support can be very helpful, even crucial.



> I know he blames me.



Generally, people who have had a psychotic episode often have lack of insight.  Therefore, his statement "I don't know" may be what he actually thinks.  



> I think I'll have to tell everything to my boyfriend and then I'll be alone. I should be alone.. I always said I had this curse, maybe there are past lives and I must have been someone really bad to others.. because now, everytime I go close to someone, things go wrong.. and we all suffer. I will be alone. Alone with my saddness, alone with my pain, alone with my feelings.. That's how I'm supposed to be. Maybe I'll runaway somewhere.. I'll just go away, I'll just leave and be alone forever. I've been left alone with my sorrow.. No one can ever help me now. I'm alone.
> 
> I'm feelling really bad now.. I don't know if i'll make through tomorrow.. There's no hope for me in this world.. there's no hope for me in this life, maybe i shall try the next one...



Part of the value in therapy is learning to identify and challenge such cognitive distortions as they occur.


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## petite_lady_marie

Daniel said:


> I remember being insured with my parent's insurance plan when I was younger.   The only way my parents knew I was seeing a doctor under the insurance plan was because I told them.  Granted, parents can call the insurance company and inquire, but that is not something most parents do..


Trust me, mine would find out I had been seeing a doctor.



Daniel said:


> Anyway, in most cases, it's beneficial if the parents are aware that one of their children is having psychological issues since family support can be very helpful, even crucial.


Not my case Daniel. My parents are almost in their 60's.. not even my boyfriend or friends with my age understood. Besides, I never talk about my feelings to my family..



Daniel said:


> Part of the value in therapy is learning to identify and challenge such cognitive distortions as they occur.


I may be experiencing something like that.. but to me its all real.

Today I was feeling really bad. I thought I had to call my friend, but that wouldn't be appropriate would it?
Instead of working (I couldn't focus) I was searching for psychologists on the internet. I found some in my neighbourhood and I decided to email one. To me, it meant a major step.. I told him a bit about my story, and I asked him for some information. As in here, I didn't use my real name. He replied. He said I really seem to need some help, especially due to my secrecy about the subject (since I used a nick name). He also said if I was really interested I should call him and schedule an appointment. I got really disappointed  I found his response quite intimidating for a therapist.. Now I think it was a mistake. I won't go to the doctor anymore. I was just trying a first approach I guess.. As it frightens me the idea of talking to a stranger.. For me its easier to start by writing, and so I did. And he also didn't provide any information either.. why? Does he think I'm a spy or something?

Tomorrow I'll most likely call my friend.. It's not a good thing, I know.. 
Another even happended. At work I was at this room, sitting next to my friend. Now, because of some new project that requires some other colleagues to be next to each other I was removed from my spot (and to a room with no windows!!!) I know this isn't shocking, but.. it's what it symbolizes.. Even at work I won't be near my friend anymore.. Everything in my life is driving me away from him.. it's saying, go away, don't hurt him anymore.. I got so sad I went to the bathroom and cried... It was so nice to have him around, he help me a lot, and he always noticed I was being sad or indisposed.. 

Please reply to me.. I'm trying to do something, but its all going so wrong, I can't fight anymore.. I'm even thinking of goodbye letters now.. Someday I may go into the ocean and dont look back.. Please, i dont want to die, i dont really want to die...


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## Daniel

> As it frightens me the idea of talking to a stranger.. For me its easier to start by writing, and so I did.



You can always start any therapy session by giving a therapist your writing (in person).



> Even at work I won't be near my friend anymore..



In the long term, that is the best thing.   You've probably heard of the phrase "take one day at a time."  That's easier said than done but therapy and other means of social support can make it easier.


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## petite_lady_marie

Daniel said:


> You can always start any therapy session by giving a therapist your writing (in person).


Yes, it may be a good idea.. I just hope my therapist (if i do go and see one) will be open to that.



Daniel said:


> In the long term, that is the best thing.   You've probably heard of the phrase "take one day at a time."  That's easier said than done but therapy and other means of social support can make it easier.



Don't say that  I'm a very private person. It's very hard for me to make friends, to let someone get into my world. So, I can't afford to lose him. In fact, I only have two friends, besides my boyfriend.. and he is one of those two and the only person who knows about my feelings.


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## ThatLady

Marie, you need to get help for yourself. There is no help to be found in agonizing over this matter. You need professional help, and it's obvious. If you can't speak to family members, that's fine. They can't help you anyway. You need a trained professional.

As for the gentleman you're agonizing about, he's ill. He needs time to himself, to recuperate and to take control of his life. People need, at times, to be allowed to treat themselves in their own way. We cannot push these people to answer our needs. They must first answer their own needs. This man is, obviously, not as strong as you imagined him to be. He's made it clear that he needs time to deal with his own, debilitating issues. Give him that time. That's what a friend would do, Marie. Be a good friend.

Again, I stress...get help for yourself. You're obsessing over this incident and this can only lead to further frustration, unhappiness and ill-health for you. Take action - proactive action - and go get the help you need. I wish you every success, and I'm sure you'll find that success if you simply take it upon yourself to follow the advice you've been given here. Denying anything that might help you is just prolonging your misery.


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## ThatLady

> Don't say that  I'm a very private person. It's very hard for me to make friends, to let someone get into my world. So, I can't afford to lose him. In fact, I only have two friends, besides my boyfriend.. and he is one of those two and the only person who knows about my feelings.



Marie, it may be that if you'll simply do as this man asks, you won't lose his friendship. However, if you continue along the road you're travelling, it's very unlikely that the friendship will withstand the strain.

From your friend's point of view - as a sick man - this isn't about you and your needs. This is about what he *has* to do to bring his life back to where he needs it to be. Your needs can be met through therapy, and it's your responsiblity to meet your needs. He must be allowed to meet his. If the friendship is true, you'll understand this and honor his request for privacy and a chance to heal.


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## Daniel

> Trust me, mine would find out I had been seeing a doctor.



Well, you may want to find a therapist that accepts your insurance plan should you later become tired of paying out-of-pocket.


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## petite_lady_marie

ThatLady said:


> Marie, you need to get help for yourself. There is no help to be found in agonizing over this matter. You need professional help, and it's obvious. If you can't speak to family members, that's fine. They can't help you anyway. You need a trained professional.



I understand that. I went after such help. I'd been exchanging emails with a psychologist and today we had an appointment. He was kind and it felt good to talk to someone, even though he spoke 90% of the time.. and sometimes he just looked at me hopping I'd say something and there was a strange silence.. 
It was just a conversation to help me decide if I want to start therapy with him or not. It would cost me about 60EUR (about 83 USD) per session! This is just to expensive for me. I was devastated. I can't afford a therapist. He said money reasons shouldn't prevent me from getting help but.. with no money there's no help  He mentioned typically people take 1 session/week.. that's about 300EUR a month... a large amount of my salary. Besides, right now it feels I'd be needing more than 1 per week.. The Dr, of course, was gentle and said if I really wanted to go through with this he could offer special conditions to me, etc.. but i don't want to beg.. He did seem so nice, and he was already a bit acquainted with my situation.. I had faith he'd help me.



Daniel said:


> Well, you may want to find a therapist that accepts your insurance plan should you later become tired of paying out-of-pocket.



Indeed Daniel, after knowing I'd be charged a large amount I'm sure I'd be needing such a therapist. But it was a big deal for me to talk to this one. I was filled with hope today. At the session, when he told me that.. I only wanted to cry. After I'd made such a terrible effort for me, to go there, all my myself.. after I'd believed I would finally get trully helped... Everything fell apart. I'm not gonna go around and make a market survey.. That was the first and only therapist I called.. I'm not going to try another.. 



ThatLady said:


> As for the gentleman you're agonizing about, he's ill. He needs time to himself, to recuperate and to take control of his life. People need, at times, to be allowed to treat themselves in their own way. We cannot push these people to answer our needs. They must first answer their own needs. This man is, obviously, not as strong as you imagined him to be. He's made it clear that he needs time to deal with his own, debilitating issues. Give him that time. That's what a friend would do, Marie. Be a good friend.


Ok, I now realize he needs time to himself. Sometimes I just go blind and want him to pay attention to me and disregard his own needs. But, would it be too much to ask for a simple message saying "hi, i'm getting better/worse.. hope you're doing fine with all this, see you soon.. ".. It's all I ask. For news. I worry about him, he means a lot to me.. I'll try to be a good friend and stay away.. Maybe it's my selfishness talking again, but I don't think he has been a good friend to me. His last call was cold and he said thinks like "it's all over.. you were a mistake, I was not myself."... It seemed it was all clear to him now, I felt like garbage.. All I did was to give him my love and affection  I know his place his with his family.. I kept telling him that.. I felt he was cruel to me.


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## Daniel

> I was filled with hope today. At the session, when he told me that.. I only wanted to cry. After I'd made such a terrible effort for me, to go there, all my myself.. after I'd believed I would finally get trully helped... Everything fell apart. I'm not gonna go around and make a market survey.. That was the first and only therapist I called.. I'm not going to try another..



Personally, I easily found my first therapist by picking up my insurance plan's list of providers and picking one that was near my home.  That's all I had to do.  All of the therapists I have seen in private practice were good, if not great.


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