# After My Brother's Suicide...



## forgetmenot

I wish my brother had someone who could have seen the signs (of his suicide) and helped him.

I am a nurse and i didn't see it either i wish i did but i had too many other people needing me who i thought were more critical.

I should have seen it and helped him now he is gone i won't screw up again.   I'll keep my sister and daughter safe somehow i am going to have them both live with me so i can watch them more closely.


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## Retired

*Re: Suicide Assessment*

Mary,

You should not hold yourself responsible for your brother's suicide.  As you know, people contemplating suicide sometimes give clues prior to the act, but others do not.

How long has it been since your brother's death?



> i won't screw up again ill keep my sister and daughter safe somehow i am going to have them both live with me so i can watch them more closely



Is there any reason to feel your sister and daughter are at risk for suicide?

Have you considered seeing a mental health professional to help deal with your feelings of guilt?


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## Mari

Dear Mary, I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. My son died by suicide just over three years ago and I continue to suffer great sorrow from missing him so much. My son did not show any extreme or obvious signs that would indicate suicide so it was a very great shock. Take good care of yourself. :heart: Mari


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## NicNak

I am sorry for your loss Mary :hug:

TSOW is right, some people do not show any signs of distress before suicide.  Some of us hide our pain very well.

Please don't put any blame on yourself.  

Sorry for your loss too Mari :hug:


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## texasgirl

I am so sorry for the both of you, Mary and Mari.  My husband committed suicide, and it took a long time to come to terms with the sorrow, anger, and the effect on my children.  Mary, I, too, spent a very long time worrying about whether my children would take the same road.  However, they continue to assure me that, because of their father, they would not ever do such a thing.  It doesn't mean that I don't worry, though.

Please know that my thoughts are with you.

TG:support:


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## forgetmenot

my brother died last october his daughter called me for help and i told her i was overwhelmed with dealing with my identical twin who was suicidal at the time and my 19 yr old daughter had tried to kill herself ending up in ICU twice on ventilator if i just would have phoned him or talked with him i would have been able to tell him i was coming up to get him to take him home but i just ignored his daughters plea for help i thought his psychiatrist would help him now it is too late  i shouldn't have ignored him i was in so much pain with my daughters attempts of suicide and my identical twins attempts i never in my dreams thought my brother would do this but then again when your in that kind of pain and feel noone gives a dam i don't know just miss him and want to say im sorry iwasnt there for him i should have been im a nurse i should have been more compassionate and heard his cry for help  god my sister and daughter will stay with me and if it means loosing my husband so be it blood is thicker than water how does one forgive themselves for beings so dam consumed with themselves they loose the sight of the pain of a brother.  i hate myself but have to stay here for my daughter and sister there is just too much pain to bring up everything from the past now i can't deal with all the pain   i hve a psychologist but i have hard time trusting anyone never had anyone care for me i am always the care giver always the nurse not a very good one as i let one of my own die god i hateme.

*mary added 5 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...*



TSOW said:


> Mary,
> 
> You should not hold yourself responsible for your brother's suicide.  As you know, people contemplating suicide sometimes give clues prior to the act, but others do not.
> 
> How long has it been since your brother's death?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason to feel your sister and daughter are at risk for suicide?
> 
> Have you considered seeing a mental health professional to help deal with your feelings of guilt?


thanks feed back i won't screw up again my pain has to come second to my daughters and sisters that is all there is to it


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## Jazzey

Mary, I'm so sorry.  I lost a good friend to suicide in November and I have much of the same thoughts that you have (and I'm by no means comparing these 2 situations - I understand it's apple and oranges but the guilt is still here).  

Please take care of yourself Mary.  Given your calling you know that suicide is a direct result of mental illness.  As Mari suggested to you earlier, we don't always recognize the signs.  Even those closest to us don't always know our internal dialogue.  You couldn't have predicted what happened.  I hope you're seeking therapy for all of this Mary.  It's a lot to handle on your own...We're here for you to lean on, but you also need someone in the real world too. :support:


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## Into The Light

mary, first of all, i am very sorry for your loss. 

i understand how easy it is to feel guilt and to blame yourself, i really do, i think it's a very natural reaction when something like this happens. it is quite possible though that had you taken care of your brother, maybe your twin or your daughter would have ended up as the ones taking their own life. trying to help one suicidal person whom you are that close to is very difficult as it is, you had 3 people you were trying to save. that is an enormous burden. to be honest i think you were in an impossible situation and there was no way you could have stayed on top of each person to the degree that you are expecting of yourself.

i too hope you'll consider counselling and opening up to a professional. the support will make the burden lighter.


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## Halo

:agree: :goodpost: 

I too am sorry for your loss Mary as well as you too Jazzey :hug: :support:


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## forgetmenot

thank you to everyone for your thoughts i am sorry for everyones losses and i hope you all are getting the help you need i am grateful this sight exists because i have really noone to turn to without causing them pain my dr is kind but i really don't have it in me to trust anyone something i learned along time ago and i know the only one who will take care of me is me thanks for all of you . this sight is helping me because i get to stay in the dark and say what is hurting me thanks for caring


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## Halo

Mary,

I am glad that you feel comfortable enough here to talk with us and that we can be of some help and relief for you.

Take care


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## forgetmenot

mary your going to be okay your going to pull through everything just go to dr and start healing your going to be okay msg to myself


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## forgetmenot

still can't believe your gone if only i helped you you would be here god why i prayed for you to helphim prayed for help but no it never comes well im tired now too tired to try to cry to do anything why didn't you helllllllllp

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ---------- 

i do hold myself responsible i should have been there god i should have been there whydidn'g he call me why i am so stupid no insight no compassion toward his blight just ignored him just ignored him


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## Into The Light

you aren't responsible mary. there is just no way you can pin this on yourself. you're not the one that made him do this. he made that decision. he may have been so blinded by despair and hopelessness that it never even occurred to him to call you. or if it did, he would have told himself it was useless. those are all factors you had no control over and couldn't have control over. i know this is difficult and that you feel you could have saved him, but you had so much going on in your life. you were trying to keep two other people safe as well. you just didn't have the resources.


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## forgetmenot

i could have his daughter called i told her he be alright i should have called him ishould have went and go t him oh god he was all alone no one was there forhim not even his own wife or daughtr cared enough tostay with him i hate them for that i could have safed him i need to go away but cant


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## Into The Light

i'm sorry you feel this way so strongly. :support: you will get through this, just hang in there mary.


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## forgetmenot

nothing i say or do will bring him back i just need tosleep right now don't want to feel anything sorry


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## white page

Mary ,
the suicide of a family member is the most violent traumatic death that can happen for the ones left behind , the the rest of our lives we think if only I had done this or that , the guilt that you feel is what everyone feels in this situation , at times it turns to anger ( why didn't he or she reach out and give me a chance to help them )  when someone decides to do this , it is in a state of mind which makes suicide seem to be the only option , at times the decision is taken in a sudden and dramatic way and no one saw it coming at other times we only can understand the little signs that were there  in retrospect , you are not to blame in any way at all , you will be seeing your T on monday , he will reassure you about this , it was his decision and ultimately his responsibility and not at all yours .
take care wp


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## Jazzey

Mary, when someone is suicidal, only they can change their minds about where they are.  Sometimes they reach out to others and sometimes they don't. As bystanders we sometimes recognize the signs and sometimes we don't.  I hope you don't mind, I'll share her what I've said to you via PM - I have a dear friend who's committed suicide in November 2008.  I knew she was struggling but didn't appreciate the true darkness of her struggle.  I still spend time with her parents whenever I can.  And yes, it's easy for me now to recognize it.  At the time, I just didn't.  And it has been easy for me in recent months to really chastise myself for what I didn't do - but I also knew her well enough that she would never condone this thinking.  To honour her memory, I'm staying on the path of recovery.  

There are times when I dip into my own tunnel of no longer wanting to exist - and then I remember her.  She would be so upset with me if she ever thought for one instant that I was considering it.  Mary, honour your brother by taking care of yourself.  And when you dip into the "why's" and "should of's" - remember that he would not want that for you...

You have a family that loves you and need you...focus on them and lean on us when you need to.  We're all right here...


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## white page

mary said:


> nothing i say or do will bring him back i just need tosleep right now don't want to feel anything sorry


Hi Mary ,
you must be so tired after this week , I would suggest you do something nice for yourself right now , like a hot milky drink , and have a restful nap . when we are tired we tend to mull over things , try to think of a nice thing that heppened recently , smiles of thanks from the patients you are so caring about . a small child playing that you saw recently , focus on the good things if you can .

take care wp


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## forgetmenot

everythings okay i took a bath now going to bed sorry for feeling this way just need to rest and forget everything take care mary


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## white page

great Mary ,please don't say sorry , we are here for you , to listen and  to support you .It is better to say how you are feeling than holding it all in . thank you  for trusting us .
have a lovely long nap .  speak to you soon . 
wp


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## Jazzey

Please don't apologize for how you're feeling Mary.  You are where you are and it's a part of the process.

We're here whenever you need us...:support:


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## suewatters1

Mary I don't know exactly what you are thinking but I will tell you my story.

I lost 2 brothers of lung disease. One in 1976 the other 1987.  They were both teenagers who both had a bright future ahead of them they could have been architect.  Even after all this time it still hurts to know they are both gone.  I say it's not fair.  Why couldn't God save them?  There are many times I wish I could trade places with them.  They had more going for them then I do.  My life is going nowhere and there lives would have been awesome.
I have to think that things happen for a reason and maybe I can learn something from there death.  *My youngest brother 1 month before he died he said to me why does it have to happen to me?*   I said maybe the Doctors will learn something from this.  He died at 16 the other died at 17.  I miss them both so much especially when I am depress.

But I have to remember that they would want me to have a fulfilling life and think of all the good times we had.

Sue


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## Into The Light

we are indeed here for you mary. i am so sorry for all this pain you are having to go through. don't apologize for your posts, i am glad you are posting because that way you are allowing us to help you. if you don't post we can't help. i hope getting some sleep will help restore some much needed energy.


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## forgetmenot

so much for sleep mother called 3x re furnace re insurance re groceries etc then my sister called guess gods way telling me to smarten up too many others depend on you. hope my daughter calls soon but thats okay she'll be alright  i see t on monday just get thru tommorrow then mother neeeds me monday as well hopefully strength is back by then thanks for caring mary


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## white page

Aw Mary , 
may I suggest you unplug your phone , the next time you want to take a rest , 
or put it on answer machine mode .  I'm glad you had a bath , that in itself is soothing . 

take care wp


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## forgetmenot

ya good idea should have know i wouldn't get any rest from my crew but thats okay they keep my mind off othr things thanks mary


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## forgetmenot

Feeling worthless, too much saddness,messages from the past how much longer can one last.....


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## white page

Hi Mary ,
The feelings will pass, but I do understand that is not what you may want to hear at the moment , 
It would be a good idea to see your therapist as soon as you can , to discuss this . Why don't you call him today for an extra session , he will understand . If you can't reach him try to call your regular doctor.

best wishes wp


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## forgetmenot

Nothing matters  anymore. He won't be able to change anything, the past, the present. Can't bring him back, can't make her better. I'm tired of this pain from the past it won't leave me alone making me feel worthless and stupid. 
I know now why he left. I understand


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## white page

Hi Mary ,

It would be a very good idea to ring your local hot line right now , to discuss this through .  I wish I could help you but I am not a proffessional and this forum is not a  hot line , but if you don't want to ring your doctor or therapist please ring your local hotline to speak with proffessionals 

take care WP


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## Jazzey

Mary,

You could also email or call your psychologist and let him know where you are today.  It's really important that you reach out to get some support.

If you're feeling suicidal, please do not try and deal with it on your own.  Call a local hotline, go to a local emergency room and/or call your psychologist as soon as possible.

Suicide Hotlines and Crisis Resources - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help  & Mental Health Support Forum


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## white page

Canada Suicide  treatment for major clinical suicidal depression.

Mary here is a useful link for you .
take care wp


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## forgetmenot

just phoned my psychologist and left msg to see if i can get earlier appt sorry ,mary


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## white page

Well done Mary , that's  great to know .  Have you talked to your husband about how you are feeling ? 
take care wp


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## forgetmenot

no we don't talk much he doesn't deal well with mental illness.  He thinks my daughters problems are behavioral and mostly my fault.  I don't allow him to see me ill he would'nt tolerate it well.  we don't communicate he came home and left right away. My daughter is out with her boyfriend  im sorry i hope my psychologist can fit me in soon.  I don't know this saddness is getting pretty bad i never cry and yet the tears seem to want to come out now take care 
i am going back to bed now mary


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## white page

Mary , a good cry is so very releasing .  I'm so sorry that your husband is not good with mental problems .  
Just tuck up now and have a good cry if you can .
take care wp


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## forgetmenot

I wish I could just let it all out but the tears come and I shut down.  How does one just totally let it all come out. I don't know why I start to cry and then as soon as it starts I shut the tears down. I hope restarting the medication will help with this.


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## Jazzey

> I wish I could just let it all out but the tears come and I shut down. How does one just totally let it all come out. I don't know why I start to cry and then as soon as it starts I shut the tears down. I hope restarting the medication will help with this.



I think we all have different reasons for shutting the tears off.  For me, the tears would force me to acknowledge that I'm not ok.

What about you?  What thoughts or emotions to you have when you start to cry?  Are you afraid of something?  Are you angry at yourself for any reason?


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## forgetmenot

I get angry at myself. Internal voice says stop being so stupid crying won't solve anything. I also feel the pain more when i cry so much pain. Stopping the crying stops the pain from coming to the surface.  Does this make sense.


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## Jazzey

mary said:


> I get angry at myself. Internal voice says stop being so stupid crying won't solve anything. I also feel the pain more when i cry so much pain. Stopping the crying stops the pain from coming to the surface.  Does this make sense.



Yes.  It absolutely makes sense.  Can you take the thought process a little further?  What would happen if the pain actually came to the surface?  What would be the absolute worse thing that could happen?

And yes Mary - I get angry at myself when I start to cry.  I think sometimes we're so accustomed to being strong for everyone else that we forget to just be ourselves for ourselves.


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## forgetmenot

I think the absolute thing that would happen is i would fall apart. I would not be able to stop the pain and that someone would see my crying.  I am afraid i won't be able to handle that kind of pain. Just thinking about letting it surface scares me


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## forgetmenot

Dam tears won't solve anything mary


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## Into The Light

tears may not undo what has happened but letting them out is important. your emotions need to come out.


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## white page

Hi Mary , 
I rather agree with Into the light , at times we need a catharsis in order to move on , my most severe depressive period , prompted me to seek long term therapy which changed my life , there were many , many episodes of deep almost unconsolable weeping during therapy which allowed me to identify and grieve for things that had happened in the past , the sorrow is still there but it is no longer unconsolable .  
I had been holding all the sorrows tight within me , but this led to a total breakdown and near destruction of myself . I wouldn't cry , I didn't want any one to see me cry .  
Mary I cannot tell you how good it is to cry nowadays . I still have to make myself cry . but it is so releasing when I do .the pain is lessened so much.

my best wishes wp


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## forgetmenot

As soon as they start coming out the tears they stop immediately. I can't cry unconsolable. I guess i was always taught tears don't solve anything so toughen up and get on with whatever needs to be done. I have often wondered what it would be like to just release all the pain at once but haven't been able to. There is just too much pain and saddness


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## Jazzey

mary said:


> As soon as they start coming out the tears they stop immediately. I can't cry unconsolable. I guess i was always taught tears don't solve anything so toughen up and get on with whatever needs to be done. I have often wondered what it would be like to just release all the pain at once but haven't been able to. There is just too much pain and saddness



I know this feeling Mary.  When I feel this way, I tend to try painting my emotions...I do a lot of design on paper for my emotions, which I then paint.  It does give me a release from the sadness that i can't express physically.


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## forgetmenot

My daughter paints jazzey. I can't even draw stick man. i like watching her paint.  I am amazed at her creativity. She is so special. o god i wish i didn't screw up with her too. Everything i do i screw up. I just want her happy and safe. I tried to give her everything. I tried to be everything for her. I didn't want her to end up like me full of pain.  I don't know what i did wrong. I never ever should have sent her away like they told me.  Im sorry so sorry mary


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## Jazzey

Encourage her to paint Mary.  Sometimes when we're sad, the first thing to go by the wayside is all the things that we once really enjoyed.  So keep supporting her and encourage her not to let go of those things that once brought her happiness.

I know you feel guilty for your daughter Mary.  A good friend of mine once told me "God never gives you more than we can handle"...Keep doing right by her now Mary.  Be a good support system and her advocate to keep her moving forward in her recovery. The best thing you can do for her right now is also keep moving forward in your own recovery.  Show her by example that you're willing to do what is necessary to get better, feel better.


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## forgetmenot

thanks Jazzey i went and bought her all kinds of art supplies. canvas paints brushes everything. She is quite the artist and so creative  I would do anything for her. she is the reason i am still trying.  I have stopped taking medication though last 2 days. My mind just fights idea. I need to have control of me not medications. I have alot on my mind with my sister wanting her to live with me and not group home. Jazzey i just can't trust these people to look after her i need to be the one.


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## Jazzey

Mary - you need to stop playing with those medications.  I can't stress this enough.  You need to be taking them.  Does your psychologist know that you've stopped taking them?  You need to take your dose tonight and stay on them.  Can you email your psychologist and tell him what you've been doing?  Remember - you are your daughter's role model.  And you're a nurse.  Would you ever recommend that a patient go off medications that their doctor has prescribed to them?


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## David Baxter PhD

mary said:


> she is the reason i am still trying.  I have stopped taking medication though last 2 days. My mind just fights idea. I need to have control of me not medications.



Mary, once again you are your own worst enemy. You say "she is the reason i am still trying". How is not taking your medication helping you or her?

It's never going to get to the point where it does you any good if you keep starting and stopping like that.


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## forgetmenot

no Jazzey i don't have email address for my psychologist.  Im okay the meds were controling me i don't like that. I will leave him a message on his phone okay. thanks mary


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## Yuray

Hi Mary

I have been following your posts for quite some time. It reads like a Greek tragedy. 

How are you responsible for your brothers suicide?
How have you screwed up your daughter?
Why do you have to keep your sister safe?
How can anyone so sensitive, such as you, possibly be responsible for so much dismay?

You have taken a great deal of responsibilty for all of the above. You seem to be spinning your wheels at every attempt to do good. Can all of this drama in your life possibly benefit anyone you try to help?

Is it possible your guilt, remorse, and self depecration has an alternative source, and rescuing your family members is a more manageable 'self therapy' than addressing a larger problem? 

When I mentally picture your actions, and your everyday life, (based on what I read from you), I get the image of that sweet little 'Chicken Little' running around distraught saying the sky is falling, yet every day the sky is still up there. Perhaps the sky will never fall, and if that is the case, the sky will remain where it is, despite your fears, and best attempts to keep it there.

Your in true friendship
Yuray


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## Into The Light

mary, you need to give those medications a chance. they aren't to control you, they are to help you. they make everything you are dealing with more bearable, not worse. yes there may be initial side effects but those don't last for very long.

not taking the medication means you aren't changing anything about your current situation. not changing what you are doing means your situation remains the same, and i don't think that is what you really want.


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## forgetmenot

I have to help them because i didn't in the past. I wasn't there for them. Yes i hear everyones concerns about the medication but its hard i know your right.  I know yet my mind is telling me the meds are controlling me.  I will go back on meds tonight and stay on them until i can talk with my psychologist on Monday. There is too many thoughts in my head, my daughters happiness is all im concerned about  thanks for your understanding and concern mary.


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## David Baxter PhD

mary said:


> Im okay the meds were controling me i don't like that.



Mary, that is absolute nonsense, and an excellent example of the distorted thinking that is part of depression and anxiety disorders. The medications weren't controlling you. Your depression is controlling you, and your anxiety is controlling you. The medication, if you take it properly and quit starting and stopping it, can help you manage the depression and anxiety.

If you want to get back control over your life, take your medication. Your doctor prescribed it for a reason. And it was NOT prescribed by your psychologist. If you have a concern about the medication, you should be discussing it with the doctor who prescribed it.


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## forgetmenot

I understand what your saying intellectually i do and i will start them again tonight. If you only knew what is going on in my brain. My psychologist understands me that is why i talk with him. My doctor doesn't know me he just prescribed the medication as requested by my psychologist. Do you know how hard it is to give up control to something you don't trust. I will start meds again tonight. mary


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## David Baxter PhD

mary said:


> Do you know how hard it is to give up control to something you don't trust.



But you are willing to give up control to the cognitive distortions of anxiety and depression...

See:

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/cbt-cognitive-behavior-therapy/1452-feelings-thoughts-control-them.html

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/cbt-cogn...e-distortions-ten-forms-twisted-thinking.html


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## forgetmenot

Thank you for pointing that out to me. I am starting to see your point. This depression and my anxiety is controlling my mind right now and i am not seeing things clearly.  I hate being this way so indecisive but i will go back on medication thanks mary


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## amastie

mary said:


> ..Im okay the meds were controling me..


David has said it for us all.

When when we are most stressed and our thoughts most distorted that it is hardest to *believe* that they are wrong.  Is the doctor who prescribed the medication a psychiatrist or a general medical doctor who only prescribes at the behest of the psychologist?  If it is the latter, then pehaps you would benefit from seeing a psychiatrist as well.

Meds, taken as required, never control a person.  They only enable *you* to have control.  Without proper help, you surrender control.

I will be glad to know that you have discussed all of this with your psychologist.

Thinking of you and wishing you well every moment.


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## Ashley-Kate

Hello, 
five years ago _{edited: tried to commit suicide}_ i thought it was my only option my life seemed to be pointless and i felt like i couldn't fight anymore i had given up.  I had my mother on my side the whole time and even my twin sister and my older brother but none of them noticed the pain that i was feeling i was so busy making sure they were all happy int their little lives trying to smoothen the impact of losing me, the day that i took the pills my family was not even aware until they got a call from the hospital informing them that their 15 year old daughter was at the hospital in the ICU. 

i survived as you can see, but the thing is my family and friends were all devastated mostly because they felt that they should have saw something coming that somewhere i was giving signs to them that i was not doing good but the truth is a couple of months before this had happened i was happy i was okay i had made up my mind and was doing pretty good, i have an eating disorder they new that at the time and i was eating again, so to them i was better all of the sudden, i did everything in my power for them no to worry about me and just caused them to feel even more terrified and worried.  

Your brother, may have given signs but he may have not showed anything to anyone, you may be a nurse but that doesn't mean you can see through people even your own brother. I was being treated by a psychologist and nutritionist a nurse and a doctor on a regular basis and none of them suspected anything.the choice if it is a choice is our own it is not anyones fault if we reach that point not even our own, it is just plane helplessness a point were you reach that you feel that its the end.  By over protecting your family now it wont bring back your brother and it won't save them from suicide. 

It will drain you of your energy the energy you should use in grieving.  sometimes you just can't save anyone. I have an older brother and a twin sister and put in your position the choice i would have made would probably be the same, not because i love one more or less but because i would go with the one i felt was in more danger and that needed me the most.  if you would have run to your brother would you have been able to live with yourself any more if it were your sister that was not there today.  

it was not your job to save anyone, your brother knew you loved him, we know everyone loves us but when you reach that point of despair you feel that people would just be better off.  It's not your fault believe me it is not and your brother would not want you to blame yourself and to dedicate your life in shielding your family from that.talk to your family tell them how you feel about your brother and listen as they tell you how they feel discuss with them and try to understand what all of you need to morn!

i am sorry for your loss, your life is still their and your brother would want you to live it.
yours truly ashley


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## forgetmenot

Thank you Ashley Kate for sharing this with me. I wish i could talk with them about my brother but i won't cause them anymore pain.  If i could replace this feeling of guilt i would but it doesn't matter. I will survive for the rest of them somehow.  I am glad you are well and have your family with you.  I do hear what you are saying it is just hard to let it all go.. He was a very kind person my brother but people only saw his illness in the end. Ah tears coming good thing i guess i haven't cried for awhile. Thank you Ashley Kate i will try to forgive myself and move on from this because there are others who need me here and yes he would not want to see any of us in this kind of pain. I am sorry he was all alone in the end i wish i had been a better friend to him. Thank  you take care Ashley Kate of you too okay mary


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## Ashley-Kate

in no way this process will be easy letting go of this is facing the things you don't want to face the facts that you couldn'T be there, the fact that you would have wanted to but couldn't be in 2 places at the same time. the choices you made, and also the choice he made.at some point you may even go through feelings of anger and frustration not towards only yourself but towards your brother and that would be normal too.  When we are born into this world god didn't give us this huge book and "how to deal", that would have been nice of him but he didn't.   I find in my position having been so close to being gone and also as many having been close to someone who has commited suicide i feel talking to people and reaching out to people helps me get past this helps me use what i have been through to help others in their struggle, but i only could do that when i had delt with the hard stuff. the stuff that i can't change, the pain i caused and the fear i have implanted in my family will remain present whenever they see me slipping into sadness. You may not have been there for you brother as you believe but do this for him show him that his act did not kill you too! by talking with your familly it may cause some pain but the more you talk the easier it will get and you will start being able to talk even more about the good things he did the great person he was and the little funny things he did that made him who he was. he will become a positive thing and not a painfull thought. 
believe in you ,
 this too shall pass.


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## forgetmenot

Thanks Ashley-Kate for trying to get me to see that in some way it was not all my fault he is gone. My daughter also feels remorse for her attempts of suicides she realizes now i think how much of a toll it has taken on me. I am not one to talk openly to anyone about my pain. always been that way I internalize alot of it. I am old now and my main concern is my daughter getting her to a point of independance of me and better self esteem is my concern because i am getting to point i am worn out and all my energy needs to go to her. Even my sister who i love dearly i have been letting others look after her needs but I have to decide soon if i can take her home with me.
I appreciate you kindness and i will try to forgive myself thanks mary


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## forgetmenot

It has been decided my twin will live with me end of april. I will help her find a little home for herself in the village near where i live.  She is not drinking now and i think she knows if she starts up then she will have ot go. I can't have happen to her what happen to my brother. She needs to know i care.


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## Ashley-Kate

great news i am happy that you get to have your sister with you for a little while. it is good news! what is realy important is that there always be communication between the two of you and that when you feel something is not working out or that you are uncomfortable with something or you think she started drinking again that you tell her as soon as you start to feel that way, and it is important for her to also know that she can confide in you when she is not feeling right leave the doors of communication open it is most important.  and good luck sweetie i know this is going to be good for you to have your familly close to you. 
take care.


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## forgetmenot

Thanks i think we can work together I hope the pain doesn't come back. We just have to stay in the present and move on. Ive told her no talking about anything about past about my brother about my aunt nothing. I don't want to hear it. I just want to move forward and hopefully she can get a little house near me.


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## Ashley-Kate

well shutting out the past may not be a good idea for ever maybe for the moment as you allow yourself to get stronger but dealing with the past will help you get even stronger. so it may help now but the past that we dont deal with has this bad reputation of comming and bittting us in the "behind" when we least expect it..


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## Mari

> I don't want to hear it.



What if it is important for your sister to talk about things? I think that Ashley has given you some good points to think about. Take good care. :dimples: Mari


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## Ashley-Kate

hi,  with what you have told us of your sister she is also dealing with tough times and needs support and maybe she needs to talk about the past in order to get better and if she keeps it in a lot like what you want to do it may not be helpful for her at were she is at in her grieving process we all deal with things differently and although hard we must accept how other chose to deal with their own pain and not block it off. 

   I remember when i was much younger(i am not that old..) me and my sister were heading out to cadets together and my mother got a phone call from her family in Quebec (we were living in Ontario at the time) and it was her older brother informing her that her youngest brother 21 years old had took his life , my reflex at that time was to act strong to hide away ans cry in my own time but not in front of my family and my sister being so bottled up and unable to understand the emotions she was living laughed while crying but she laughed as i was well aware that my uncle had past away i was furious at him and my sister she was in denial for many weeks she remained in denial until we moved to Quebec a couple of weeks later and we walked into my uncles empty apartment, then she cries, the reason i bring this up is to express to you that we all have we all have our need for time and we all have different pain you may have lost the same person but your feelings could be completely different towards that person. be there for your sister but don't be a wall in front of her when she will need to open up if you can't hear her out if it is too hard for you tell her and explain to her that you are not ready but don't refuse to allow her to talk about it.. it is hard but i know you can do it stay strong


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## forgetmenot

I know Ashley-Kate but i won't be consumed with garbage from my past.  I am a different person now and i can only function as the person i am now. The past is exactly that stupid memories of stupid people and i just can't go there anymore it only makes matters worse. I have my twin home with me and i can undo some of the harm that was done and show her she is worth fighting for. I hope maybe she can pass on somethings to my daughter of what she learned andhelp my daughter see alcohol and other addictions are not the way to deal with illness and pain.  thanks mary


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## Yuray

Can the above post be possibly written by the Mary we have all come to know in here? There is too much positivity, and that makes me think there may be an imposter using Marys name. Someone please verify this for me.


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## forgetmenot

Again thanks for the laugh Yuray. Yes it is me thinking with a clear mind. Positive thoughts get positive results and this will work out l will have it no other way.  Take care have a great weekend mary.

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ---------- 

Yes I hear you but when she needs to talk whatever out she willhave to do this with someone else.  She needs to know too all this talk about past is not right. She is to stay in the present and look to tommorrow. Its over everything.  She needs to stay focus on getting a little house for herself. Getting on with her life and not stay stagnet in the past god i hate the past and i will not remember it or have anything to do with it. She understands if we are to do this it will have to be in the present, past no more. Mary


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## Jazzey

Sometimes moving forward requires revising the past Mary - so that we can understand why we are where we are and, to break some cycles and patterns.  

And I mean with the help and guidance of therapy.  Your twin's psychiatrist should really be involved in all of her decision making right now.  While I really appreciate you're wanting to protect her, and that you love her, love her enough to support her in getting the best mental health for herself.  Love her enough to make sure that she does actually move forward in recovery without just dismissing the past.  While we may not like our pasts - they're not easily dismissed...And you know that first hand. :hug:


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## David Baxter PhD

> Sometimes moving forward requires revising the past



or at least accepting it.


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## forgetmenot

I will make sure she makes psychiatrist appointment when she returns home to me. Her psychiatrist is there mainly for reordering her meds. I mean my sister has had 4 mths of therapy she should have had all this past nonsense dealt with now so move on.  I don't believe in dwelling on past just what is in front of me now as every time i go back it makes me ill so ive decided no more. i will stay well on my own because that is what i tell my brain to do. My twin will have to make sure she stays well no more negative talking just positve thoughts only. If she wants talk about past talk withher psychiatrist not me.  I only know how to be what i am now. I will never accept my past it should never have happened and i can't do anything to change it.  Thanks Jazzey but i am not that child anymore never again will they put me backthere. Living it once was quite enough for me.  Mary


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## David Baxter PhD

Mary said:


> I mean my sister has had 4 mths of therapy she should have had all this past nonsense dealt with now so move on.



I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense, Mary, and it reeks of a total lack of compassion or understanding.

There is no time limit on grief and no timetable for grieving. 4 months? That's a flash in the pan for most people.

I am still grieving for my daughter after more than 12 years. Your comment is insulting and insensitive.


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## forgetmenot

I am sorry i did not mean to be that. I was talking about our past not my brother suicide and i can't bring him back or change anything so i refuse to think about it.  I know you will never get over your lost and i am sorry you took it that way. I just want us to live in the present now where we are safe with no pain. Dr Baxter please don't say that im insulting and incensitive i feel everyones pain too much that is why i avoid it. I am so sorry if i caused you any pain mary.


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## David Baxter PhD

My point was that you are being insensitive to your sister.


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## Ashley-Kate

it is very important to know that we all have our ways of dealing with issues, sometimes big sometimes small breaking a nail to one person can be nothing yet to another can be a very painfull thing to deal with not that it is anything like losing someone but the example i chose it that lets say for a second that this is a story you are reading of two sisters who lose their brother he passes away, the reason not that important really lets just say he dies, the both sisters go into therapie one feels better or feels she doesn't need therapie after 4 months and decides to end just because she feels that she doesn't need help anymore to overcome her pain doesn'T mean that her sister should stop as well.  In my familly i have went past the death of my uncle, yet my sister has a hard time hearing his name looking at movies or picture with him in it or talking about the way he died. We respect her because she is still after 8 years unable to accept his death and the disease that caused his psychosis, you may feel that you need to stop talking about it put it in your past, you should not impose how you feel upon your family because that would not be protecting them it would be enabling them to remain in a morning state that they are maybe ready to leave.
yours truly ash


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## NicNak

Mary said:


> I mean my sister has had 4 mths of therapy she should have had all this past nonsense dealt with now so move on.



There is never any time frame for dealing with things.  Calling her pain nonsense _is_ insensitive Mary.  



> I don't believe in dwelling on past just what is in front of me now as every time i go back it makes me ill so ive decided no more.



The past is always somewhere deep inside our minds.  No matter if you think you are not "dwelling" on it, it still influences the present.  



> i will stay well on my own because that is what i tell my brain to do.



If only it were this easy.  I am sure you know it isn't.



> My twin will have to make sure she stays well no more negative talking just positve thoughts only. If she wants talk about past talk with her psychiatrist not me



Your sister still needs to mourn.  This may not be possable for her to do to "talk just postive thoughts only"  we all have our weak moments and we are intitled to them.

I try to be postive and there are even times where I have to talk about things before getting to see my Psychiatrist.



> I only know how to be what i am now. I will never accept my past it should never have happened and i can't do anything to change it.  Thanks Jazzey but i am not that child anymore never again will they put me backthere. Living it once was quite enough for me.  Mary



A Psychiatrist or Psychologist can teach you ways to cope.  

Personally I am not able to dreadge up my past either at this point.  So now we are focusing on coping skills.  There are all different aproaches to therapy.


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## Jazzey

Hi Mary, 

When I posted to you, I was more referring to the past of sexual abuse and which I think is still at the heart of all of your pain.  Just as your daughter is suffering from what's happened to her.

All three of you need to move forward, I agree.  And the recovery process will be different for all three of you.  My comment had more to do with *not* supporting your twin or your daughter from trying to forget that they have been sexual abuse victims...just like you.

Mary, I'm an abuse victim myself- just as recently as this past August.  One of the things I've learned is that I can no longer gloss over it, and try and leave it in the past.  My family also wants me to leave the pain and the past behind.  But sometimes, in order to make the pain dissipate, you need the help and guidance of a psychologist and/or psychiatrist.  My psychologist and I are starting soon on going to my very early childhood, revisiting the pain and going right up to my rape in August.  I know the process is going to be long and painful - but I need to do it so that I don't keep doing the same stuff again (drinking to make the pain stop and other really bad behaviours that I've adopted through the years to cope with the pain).  

I was just saying that whether it be you, me, your twin or your daughter - or any other victim of sexual abuse - this is not a journey that we can do on our own. It took me a very long time to accept this Mary.  

Your family's pain is also marked with the suicide of your brother.  This too should be explored as part of each of your respective therapies.  I have no doubt that all of you are suffering from it.  And unfortunately, I also believe that your brother's suicide may have been a part of your family's history (I'm not a doctor-  but I have some of the same patterns in my family).

Like you, I will do anything to stop the cycle of my family history.  I just think that I can't do it alone because the patterns are too ingrained in our psyche - I don't even recognize when my thinking is off the mark.  But my psychologist does...

I remember you're telling us that your twin is schizophrenic.  So she definitely needs to keep seeing her psychiatrist for the medications.  But, she also needs therapy.

Mary, you're in my thoughts.  Just as your twin and your daughter are.  And I'll be here supporting each of your recoveries.  But I'll also keep nagging you about therapy because I feel your pain every time that you post, every time I read your messages.  

In you, I recognize myself and my mother (whom I also suspect is a survivor of abuse).  Like you, my mother believes in leaving the past behind.  My mother is now in her 70s.  She has lived a life full of depression, addictions and a lot of pain.  Her children have inherited this pain.  I don't blame her at all - I love her with everything in my core.  I just wish that our lives could have been a little different Mary.  And for right now, I'm going to fight to break any remnant of this cycle that's really devastated an entire family through generations of abuse.

Until any of us can deal with this pain and accept what's happened to us Mary, we will always be _*"victims"*_ - my goal is to finally become a _*"survivor"*_ of sexual abuse.  I don't want to be a _*victim*_ any longer precisely because the pain is too much for me...I also really believe that until I deal with all of this, I will always be a victim and prey to more victimization.  

During my last appointment with my psychologist, we discussed a particular aspect of being the child of sexual abuse.  Without going into to many details Mary, I've been sexually assaulted and victimized many times in my life.  A lot of it happening when I was a teenager right through to my early thirties.  In my early thirties, I decided to stop dating because I was too afraid of being victimized again.   My psychologist (who happens to be an expert in the field of sexual abuse and woman's patterns of re-victimization) explained the following to me:  For people who've never been through what we have, they don't understand why we put ourselves in dangerous situations. But the reality is that we're not aware that we're doing it - I certainly wasn't.  But subconsciously, there seems to be something that drives us to these situations in the hopes that "THIS TIME" we can change the outcome...and of course, we never can - and we keep doing these cycles over and over again.  For me, these cycles have resulted in my not have any sense of self-worth.  So I cope with it by doing self-destructive things.

I'll leave it here for now Mary.  But I do hope that this post has made some sense as to why I keep nagging you into seeking and supporting therapy for your family members.

:hug: :hug:


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## forgetmenot

Jazzey i hear you and as you know i will do anything for my sister and daughter and the rest of my family. They are and will get therapy they need or support they need. I am not insensitive or whatever words that Dr Baxter wants to throw out there at me. I am just someone trying to survive the only way i know how.  I am sorry for any pain i have caused to members of this forum. I will try to be more careful in how i word things. Jazzey you are stronger than me to do what you are about to do. I don't have that kind of energy. I am just surviving and if setting up guide lines for me to survive is needed than i am insensitive I guess but he doesn't know how she gets when she revisits the past how cruel and mean and i can't deal with my twin when she gets this way. I am hurting now Dr Baxter managed to do that get me out of my numb state.  I need to focus on keeping stability here in my house so we all can live together without pain. My twin and my daughter know they can talk to professionals not me i can't help them. How can i deal with their pain when i can't deal with mine. He shouldnt acuse me of things when he doesn't know me. Jazzey please take care of you and continue to be the great support you are to forum members here .  Thanks for understanding mary. This too will pass


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## Jazzey

You're not insensitive Mary-  but you are struggling.  And I'm happy to hear that you'll support your daughter and your twin to get the support they need.

And absolutely - I think that for right now, none of you can talk about it.  To revisit that pain is better kept with a therapist Mary.  I can't discuss it with my twin either - it triggers me because I feel his pain and it magnifies my own...But I do encourage him to see a psychologist.

Mary - I know you don't feel strong.  But everything I've seen on this forum indicates the contrary.  And yes, like you, for the time being I feel as though I'm barely surviving.  But I accept it for the time being and forge ahead with the help of any kind of support I can get - therapy being the main one.

You're in my thoughts Mary.  And don't give up that instinct to fight please. :hug: :hug:


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## David Baxter PhD

Mary said:


> I am not insensitive or whatever words that Dr Baxter wants to throw out there at me. I am just someone trying to survive the only way i know how... I am just surviving and if setting up guide lines for me to survive is needed than i am insensitive I guess but he doesn't know how she gets when she revisits the past how cruel and mean and i can't deal with my twin when she gets this way. I am hurting now Dr Baxter managed to do that get me out of my numb state.  I need to focus on keeping stability here in my house so we all can live together without pain. My twin and my daughter know they can talk to professionals not me i can't help them. How can i deal with their pain when i can't deal with mine. He shouldnt acuse me of things when he doesn't know me.



I know what you wrote. I am referring to this statement specifically:



Mary said:


> I mean my sister has had 4 mths of therapy she should have had all this past nonsense dealt with now so move on.



Of course you have a right to set boundaries for yourself. That statement, however, went way beyond setting your own boundaries in proscribing how others should feel and what others should do. To say that you cannot cope with discussions about the past with your sister is one thing. To say that after "4 mths of therapy she should have had all this past nonsense dealt with" is quite another.


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## Jazzey

And yes, I agree that the statement you made was insensitive to your twin - we each have our own pace for recovery Mary.


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## Yuray

Hi Mary

Does everyone you are trying to help overcome their afflictions actually want your help, or is your guilt forcing you to make some irrational choices?

Has your sister or daughter ever said " thank you for helping and saving me", or are they more inclined to argue, or at least offer resistance, when you try to assist?

And finally, what triggered this last bout of incoherence?

Yuray
ps not being judgemental or confrontational, just some point blank questions requiring some honest point blank answers


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## white page

Mary , 



> How can i deal with their pain when i can't deal with mine.



Of course you cannot take on every ones pain , this is for the proffessionals to deal with , each one of you should have a different therapist , there will be times when it is important and neccessary to revisit the past together , however in order to avoid either one of you unbearable suffering it could be done only within the structure of a family group therapy session .

There has to be a time , that in order to move on , one no longer considers oneself as a victim , it is easy being a victim in a certain sense , it can be an alibi for moving forward , it can be comfortable being a victim as it attracts sympathy and support .
 I am not diminishing your victim status or denying your suffering , believe me I have had my own fair share of troubles , so I do know what I am talking about .  It takes courage to step over the threshold of taking owns own suffering into ones hands and deciding that , okay that did happen and it was serious I need help to lay those demons to rest ,and once that is done  I am not letting this dictate the rest of my life .

I know that you do have that survival instinct and courage .

my best wishes .


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## Jazzey

Yes, while I know it's hard to hear some of the comments we've made on this thread, they're made with the best of intentions.  They're to keep you moving forward Mary.  So that you don't stay in this pain, so that you don't continue to remain in victim mode.

I know these statements are hard Mary.  I've had similar statements made to me - but they do force our thinking.  And sometimes, we need that Mary.  I hope you know that all of our statements here were made with the best of intentions...


----------



## white page

I feel I would  like to add , that when we are fragile within ourselves and our own pain has not been recognised , we do at times deny the pain of others and see it as an aggression to our selves , as if their pain was designed to hurt us , this is what Jazzey was saying , there is no hierarchy to suffering , your pain is yours , your sister and daughter have a right to their pain and their own individual ways and time lapses to resolve and cope with it .

 I was happy when you wrote about recognizing your husbands pain , that was a huge step forward for your couple. 
I know that all you want for your family is serenity and emotional comfort , but as the saying goes , you can't make an omelete without breaking eggs .

You have come a long way recently by accepting that you do need help . 

I would concentrate on your needs now , and let the fullness of time and therapy for your daughter and sister take care of them . 
You are not a therapist , you cannot heal them .
They can only do this when they need to and when they are ready for it .


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## forgetmenot

4mths of intense therapy i felt yes now time to move on. What do i know just stupid thoughts that now maybe she can move forward and leave the past in the past because living back there is not productive.  I mean't it she needs to move forward stop this self pity and get on with her life. enough is enough
stop it grow up. It doesn't matter anymore i don't care i have to get myself together again and stop this nonsense there has to be away to get control of me again. I was so positve i could do this now i don't care.


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## David Baxter PhD

Mary said:


> 4mths of intense therapy i felt yes now time to move on. What do i know just stupid thoughts that now maybe she can move forward and leave the past in the past because living back there is not productive.  I mean't it she needs to move forward stop this self pity and get on with her life. enough is enough
> stop it grow up.



There is a huge difference between grief and "self-pity".


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## forgetmenot

Yes grief, self pity are different but when one get so emotional involved in grief they stop seeing others around them and the whole world has to center around them.  I am not sure what will happen now but i know if she lives with me it will be past free. mary


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## white page

Mary , 
It seems to be a little contradictory , to want to take care of someone and then not allow them to express their grief , I think that you are not strong enough for this , and it would be respectful to yourself and your sister to not live together ,.until you yourself have come to terms with your own problems.

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ---------- 




> 4mths of intense therapy i felt yes now time to move on.


With all due respect to how you feel Mary  , your sister is not you , and whether you feel that she should move on is not at all relevant to your sister , there is no should about it , she will move on when she can ., not because you want her to or you think she should .  Lets look at this from another view point . 

Imagine someone else denying your need to grieve Mary, saying to you that you should not grieve , telling you to not feel pain . Telling you Mary that you are wallowing in self pity . You would be shocked and upset I know.

Every one here respects and listens to your pain , I understand it is difficult to cope with the pain of others when we are hurting .

That is why your sister would be better off not living with you , so that she can grief in her own time , and not be told that she should not be grieving or hurting .

I know you are a bright and caring person and you only want the best for everyone .
best wishes wp


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## Jazzey

Mary said:


> Yes grief, self pity are different but when one get so emotional involved in grief they stop seeing others around them and the whole world has to center around them.  I am not sure what will happen now but i know if she lives with me it will be past free. mary



Until and unless you are willing to accept (and respect) where each of you are in this process Mary, you are of no assistance to any one of them - including yourself.  So while you want to protect them Mary your efforts will be in vain.  

My mother also "supports" me in getting psychological and medical help - as long as I don't discuss it with the family and I'm to "act" happy when I'm around them - otherwise I'm kicked out.  She also says:  "what? you're not over it yet.  It's not normal Jazzey - you need to get out there, meet people and put the past behind you", or praises me for not having "given in" to the medical help (I've been lying to her about it)...I barely speak to any of my immediate family now - too many rules to it.  So then I sink a little deeper in my isolation (and in my illness too by the way) every time.  So now, in addition to getting better because of everything, this is another thing that I have to accept and deal with in therapy...that support would have been really a godsend to me Mary.

I know you're not ready to hear us Mary.  You're so busy feeling your pain, that you can't see and aren't willing to accept that of others.  You're saying that your sister can live with you but, with the caveat that it has to be "pain free" - that isn't support Mary.  Or at least, not to your sister.  It does however help your denial of what you're family's going through - much like my mother's behavior to deny my illness and the past that brought me here.  

None of it will help your twin, and it won't help your daughter - not to mention what it's doing to you as well.

I do worry about your well-being Mary.  I hope that at some point in the near future, you'll be ready to hear what we've all been trying to say to you. I've read a lot of anger in your last couple of posts.  I understand Mary - but we are all trying to help you move forward.  I truly believe that the thought processes your having right now are a direct result of your pain Mary.  It's part of the distorted thinking patterns that Dr. Baxter already posted for you in this thread (I think anyway - Dr. Baxter can correct me on it if I'm wrong post number 60).  That's why we're all responding to you, not out of ill intent nor to anger nor hurt you.  To help you see the thinking patterns that you're currently in so that you get out of them.  Both for yourself and for your family. :hug: :hug:

I'm also pushing you on this point - 1) because I care about you and your family; 2) because I've seen the will to get better in you before and I really want to see that again and finally, 3) because you and your familly are worth every ounce of that strength and will to get better - each and every one of you.  You're in my thoughts Mary.

Go back to post 60 on this thread Mary - see if you can recognize some of your thinking patterns throughout what you've posted on this thread.  Do you recognize them?  Are you still taking your medications?


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## Budoaiki

Mary,

As you know we all deal with things in our own way and in our own time, in my family we all bare different scars from the past and some of them they don't see and I am sure the same could be said about me. I am still trying to accept that there are things I might never understand or be able to make peace with even with the help of therapy.

My family can get pretty impatient with me at times and they are always pushing me to "let it go" ect ect. If I could do it that easily I would but my scars are different and we are different people so we heal in different ways and at a different pace.

I think that your sister might need to do it in her own time at her own pace, having your support in the form of patience with her could help her and you to deal with the past so you can live more peacefully in the present. In my experience catastrophes can either tear a family apart or it can strengthen their bond. I think the difference is choosing to be there for each other by accepting the fact we all need compassion and it's never needed more than when we are struggling with grief and despair.


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## Jazzey

Hi Mary,

I wanted to post for you the very first thread you started here back in February:

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/therapy-and-therapists/15664-going-back-to-past-or-not.html

I wanted to remind you of the steps you'd taken since this first post of yours because that post showed conviction and strength to move forward...

This forum is always here to lend you support when you need it Mary. :support:


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## forgetmenot

*Re: Going back to past or not?*

Thanks, Jazzey. I am having a big meal tonight for Easter. I replaced myself at work as I was not coping there well. I am having a lot of physical pain now. 

I talked with my twin and told her to do what the doctor in Guelph thinks what is best for her. I told her she could do whatever she wanted and that she was welcome here but I think for her to heal fully she needs to listen to her psychiatrist in Guelph.  She said she would be in lock down for 6 months Jazzey.  No home visits at all Jazzey. It is almost like army rules.  I want to do what is right Jazzey so I told her to listen to her doctor, not me, do what he thinks is best. 6 months more treatment without seeing me Jazzey. What do you think?


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## Jazzey

*Re: Going back to past or not?*



Mary said:


> Thanks, Jazzey. I am having a big meal tonight for Easter. I replaced myself at work as I was not coping there well. I am having a lot of physical pain now.
> 
> I talked with my twin and told her to do what the doctor in Guelph thinks what is best for her. I told her she could do whatever she wanted and that she was welcome here but I think for her to heal fully she needs to listen to her psychiatrist in Guelph.  She said she would be in lock down for 6 months Jazzey.  No home visits at all Jazzey. It is almost like army rules.  I want to do what is right Jazzey so I told her to listen to her doctor, not me, do what he thinks is best. 6 months more treatment without seeing me Jazzey. What do you think?




You've been in my thoughts since yesterday Mary. :hug: 

What do I think?  I know that this will be difficult for both you and your twin.  But I really, in my heart of hearts, believe that this decision needs to be handled by your twin's psychiatrist.  

Does she know for a fact that she'll be in lockdown for 6 months, or is she speculating on this?  Also, I've never heard of someone being in lockdown without being allowed visitors...But I'm not sure Mary.  

For right now-  I'm so proud of you for doing this.  I really am.  I know that it was really difficult for you.  But I also know that you're doing what's right for your family and yourself.  I'm so proud of you Mary! 

For the time being, try not to speculate on what the psychiatrist will say.  One day at a time Mary. :hug: :hug:


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## white page

Well done Mary , I am proud of you .  

For giving yourself time from work , and for advising your sister so well .


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## forgetmenot

*Re: Going back to past or not?*

Thanks White Page and Jazzey  My sister says that the Guelph group home does not allow them out even to do shopping they have to make a grocery list and instructors do the shopping. It seems so very cold.  There is a group home in Toronto with weekend passes but her Psychiatrist in Guelph feels mytwin would do better with more strict rules. This is for her alcoholism i believe.  He said he would visit her there too.  I can't get into this decision because i want her safe with me. I think as you do let her dr tell her what to do then i won't be blamed for anything if it goes wrong.  take care mary


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## Jazzey

It's not about avoiding blame Mary.  It's about doing what's right - for your twin, for your daughter, for your husband & for yourself.

I really understand your need to keep everyone safe.  To act as the protector right now.  I get the feeling that you think the following:  1) that you have a duty to safeguard everyone, take care of them; 2) that you're going to "save" them; 3) that by taking on this task, you're somehow making amends for the past...It's one of the traps that I fall into quite regularly.  That's to make myself feel better - but it doesn't mean that I help anyone and certainly not myself.

And I understand it because I play the same role in my family.  BUT - you are not well yourself right now.  You have some work to do on yourself to be better.  Just like me Mary.  I can't take anything else on right now - I would suffocate under the pain and overwhelming feelings.  For right now, the best thing I can do for my family is to get better.

You too Mary - that's the best gift you can give any of them.  You will all have your own recovery to go through and while you can lean on one another, none of you can become the sole source of support to the other.

Again, I'm so proud of you for making this decision Mary - it gives me a renewed sense that you still have that will to get better.  When you're in this mind frame - that's when you'll truly be a good support to your daughter and twin...

And to make you smile :yahoo: :rock: :yahoo:


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## white page

Mary you have a great attitude about this , 
Your sisters Doctor is doing the very , very best for her , it is not for any one else to decide what she should do , she will be safer in the care of professionals than she would be with you , as you cannot care for her 24/24 , in fact she wouldn't be safe at all , as you go out to work .
There will be medical professionals to listen to her and support her through those low times , you cannot do this as you are too emotionally involved and you need to take  care of you . 

best wishes wp


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## forgetmenot

Thanks Jazzey for dancing guys and White Page i will just deal with things as they come.  She has to be accepted into these group homes first one in Guelph or the Toronto one which she could come home on weekends to see me.  Whatever happens i understand i cant get involve in her healing because i just don't have strength to deal with it. My daughter needs me now my strength will be with her.  My twin will know that no matter what she is welcome here i just hope i am doing right thing by telling her to stay 6 more mths. mary The professionals will take care of her pain better than me your right.  mary


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## white page

Mary
Of course you are right in advising her to listen to her Doctors her future wellbeing depends on it . 
I know that you know this to be true and will do everything that will help her to 
get better , it may mean not seeing her , as it is important for her to totaly concentrate on her own healing , and at times it means a total break from family for a time , I know that you understand and accept this , and will respect whatever her Doctors prescribe for her.

I hope that you feel more serene now knowing that she will be safe and cared for by professionals .


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## forgetmenot

I am so tired trying to do what is right it takes so much energy.


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## Jazzey

..I know Mary...That's why it's so important that you take care of yourself first.  And why I've been pushing you to understand that you can't take care of everyone right now...:hug: :hug:


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## white page

Mary , 
Jazzey is so right , you need time out for yourself after all this concern for every one else .
take care and try to rest up some .


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## Budoaiki

Mary,

       I think you are playing a huge role in your sister's healing because you told her how much you care for her and you gave her your support. I bet that means the world to her and knowing you will be there with open arms when she comes out of this will help her get through it.


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## forgetmenot

Thanks Budoaiki.

I know but I feel she is still hurt that I am not saying what she wants to hear. I know she wants to just come be with me. I know because I still feel responsible but logically i have to tell her to listen to her doctor.

I take her to the train station tommorrow am. Then I just have my daughter to take care of and of course my mom and two brothers who I see only once a week now.


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