# Fighting suicidal ideation



## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

I've given a lot of thought to this recently. I've discovered that my brain will sometimes take me down this path without my ever realizing how or why I've gotten to these thoughts again.  

It's as if there is a battle going on in my brain between letting these thoughts engulf me or, fighting them off by constantly reminding myself that it's my brain "acting up" again (for lack of a better description).  When I'm there, a thought or a feeling will overpower me.  In that moment, I do one of two things - I either start crying or, I start pacing and trying to distract myself by forcing myself to do something that I used to really enjoy.

I'm wondering if other people also have this feeling that their thoughts sometime have a volition of their own.  If other people end up in these dark spots without ever really understanding how or why they got to the dark spot again?  What do you do to get out of it?  Do you ever just give yourself a little time in that dark spot before you try and get out of it?

I tend to let myself stay there for a little while because I find that it's exhausting to keep fighting - but I don't stay there for too long.  And recently, I find that I have gotten better at pulling out from the dark spot...What used to take me a few weeks now maybe takes me a few days...


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## Cat Dancer (Jun 19, 2009)

I don't know. I have always thought that my mind just went down that path too, like you explained, but my therapist insists I have the ability to choose what I think about. It's confusing because it seems like the thoughts just "pop" into my head. 

When we have these suicidal thoughts, is it choice or something else?


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm not sure that I'm even cognizant about the thought Cat Dancer.  As you said, the thought just pop in my mind and then become more pronounced gradually.  But I do know that if I start thinking about that thought, recognizing that I'm going down that path again and actually catch myself in time, I'm usually successful at deviating it a little.

I have this internal dialogue that goes something like:  Ok, having the thought again.  Why?  What tough things have I been thinking about lately that brought me here again?  

And then I just start talking myself out of it which is actually the exhausting part of the whole thing.

Do you think maybe that's what your therapist is referring to when he says it's a choice?  Maybe meaning that if you can recognize it and deviate it, you don't have to stay there?

I don't know - what do you understand from what your therapist is saying?  And maybe the thought patterns aren't the same for all of us?  What are yours like?


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## ladylore (Jun 19, 2009)

This is where distraction comes in. After about 10 minutes I pull myself away by physically doing something else. Putting on music.....anything to occupy my mind. Something light and fun so it doesn't seem like work.

With-in time your mind will no longer want to stay there as there is another healthier track that has been built and maintained for it to follow.

I think of it like this: I would never allow a child to remain in distress. After talking with the child for about 10 or so minutes, I would gently guide them to do something else. It really isn't healthy to be in that kind of spot for a long time.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

> This is where distraction comes in. After about 10 minutes I pull myself away by physically doing something else. Putting on music.....anything to occupy my mind. Something light and fun so it doesn't seem like work.



Thanks LL - that's what I've been slowly trying to do too.


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## Always Changing (Jun 19, 2009)

Hi Jazzey, 
It is very weird for me at the min to see your question on this topic as this is where I am at,  


> If other people end up in these dark spots without ever really understanding how or why they got to the dark spot again? What do you do to get out of it? Do you ever just give yourself a little time in that dark spot before you try and get out of it?


I am tired of fighting those thoughts\ talking myself out of it etc,  I _have_ been thinking of just staying in that space.  But! I have been in there (more than once) and I know for me it isn't a healthy place at all. 
I believe I know why\how I am here and it helps to know that, but at the same time, To be totally honest, I am now afraid of that\this space. I know where it can take me.
  Today, I have taken the (for me) unusual step of making an apt to see my doc. Instead of allowing myself to go any further down that path or waiting any longer to see what happens.  I'm hoping by talking to my doc this time! to  somehow avert actually going in and staying which at the min would be so easy.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm happy to hear that you've made that doctor's appointment.  I hope that you're also able to get out of that thinking.

As for being scared - It's weird, but I'm not scared when I'm in those thoughts.  It's actually relieving. Which I think is part of the reason why it's sometimes more difficult to fight them off.  

When's your doctor's appointment?  I hope that you'll lean on us.   :hug:


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## Always Changing (Jun 19, 2009)

> It's weird, but I'm not scared when I'm in those thoughts.  It's actually relieving.


It is a bit hard to explain but that is the reason it scares me,, knowing that being in there can be relieving,  I think for me that sense of relief could be the most dangerous time to be there.  I have been there before and even though that sense of relief is appealing, felt it, want it but I cannot afford the price it could ask.

does that make sense.?

apt is later today


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

It does make sense.  And I'm sending you positive vibes :support:  I'll be thinking of you today and I hope you'll let us know how you're doing.


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## Jackie (Jun 19, 2009)

Jazzey,

When ever I feel like you describe I just tell myself NO, and I remember the times these type of thoughts got the better of me and I ended up in a mess, in hospital or intensive care. feeling quite ill for days or weeks after, just keep saying no and then walk away and find something else to replace them. Its not easy though they can be quite overpowering :hug::hug:


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## Always Changing (Jun 19, 2009)

the doctor apt  went well.   I am glad I went.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm happy it went well.


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## Into The Light (Jun 19, 2009)

i rarely have these thoughts now and when i do it's like it's a "left-over" reaction to times of feeling overwhelmed by negative emotions.

depending on where i was in my recovery dealing with the thoughts has been different. at its worst the thoughts were very powerful and frightening. at times i didn't fight them much and let myself be there. other times i just wouldn't allow the thought in my mind, i blocked it, because i knew that if i let my thoughts go that way that it was dangerous.

later in my recovery the thoughts might be there but i didn't mean them as much. 

now once in a while when i am overwhelmed it's there but i know it's purely a left-over thought that kicks in and i don't have any desire to act on it. i know it holds no power over me anymore. now i see it as a sign that i need to step back from things and try to regroup so i feel i can handle whatever's going on.

blocking them and just not allowing myself to even go there was helpful many times. other times, just letting them run through my mind without fighting them worked as well - but that was when i was stronger and could handle them as just being thoughts and knew i'd snap out of it.

a bit of a long story but i hope it's helpful.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks ITL.  It does help.  Can I ask something?  When you say you 'block' them out - how do you do that?  when the thought enters your mind, do you just say 'no'?  What do you do?


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## Into The Light (Jun 19, 2009)

that's a tough question to answer. let me see if i can remember how.

i think when i allowed myself to think about suicide, i would think the first thought, and then think about it some more, and one thought led to another all related and i'd get sort of stuck in that thinking, and get even more overwhelmed and feel like i couldn't cope even worse.

when i didn't allow myself, as soon as the first thought popped into my head (a general "i want to die" thought) i would tell myself "no, not going there, i am not going to think about this. go away!" and i would be adamant about it. no ifs, ands, or buts, no discussion, any further thinking beyond that initial thought was just not allowed. i think i ended up replacing the thought by saying to myself, "this isn't good for me, i am not going to think this way, i need to think about other things. i do NOT want to go down this path, and thinking about it makes it more risky, so i CAN'T, and i WON'T."

i think i told myself all the reasons why i was NOT going to be thinking about suicide. i was quite stern with myself. it helped, a lot. the sternness came from fear. i just couldn't allow myself to go down that path in my mind.

after that i'd distract myself, i don't remember how or what i'd do, but i'd do anything but think about suicide.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you ITL - That's extremely helpful to me.   That's the kind of internal dialogue that I was looking for. :hug::hug:


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## suewatters1 (Jun 19, 2009)

For me when I get in that dark mood I ask myself why am I feeling this way?  I am always analyzing my thoughts.  I while back I had 2 weeks were those thoughts stayed with me. I knew the reason.  I needed a new medication to help my depression.  I knew the medication I was on wasn't doing enough to help me fight my depression. So everyday I kept saying to myself I just need a new medication.  Once my Dr gave me a new medication to take it took about 1 week for me to feel a big difference.

Jazzey you mention you don't always take your medication and you were suppose to increase it in April.  In my opinion your not letting your medication do it's job.  Now you have to figure out why you are not taking your medication regularly and why you didn't increase it in April.
Maybe once you answer those 2 questions that might clear things up for you somewhat.

That is only my opinion mind you.

Take Care of Yourself

Sue


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

Hi Sue,  it's nice to see you again 

And yes, I agree - I'm going to make bigger efforts to take the medication.  I'm not always responsible but i think it's because of my current mindset...

:hug::hug:


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## Into The Light (Jun 19, 2009)

i know for me there were times i didn't want to take my medication because i was angry for being so unwell in the first place. do you think this is a factor for you, jazzey?


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm not necessarily angry.  I just go through phases where I find it difficult to care about much of anything.  So while I remember that I have this medication that I take at a certain time every day, I look at the clock and literally tell myself - I'll take it tomorrow.  

I know it sounds weird but my thought process is more like laziness / can't be bothered.  I don't feel angry, but you may have something ITL - maybe I am a little angry about my world turning upside down the way it has this year...But I don't really know.


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## Into The Light (Jun 19, 2009)

it's inertia then, that's a tough one to go against too. you need to break that cycle, which is really hard at first, but very well worth it.

do you have a calendar you use? maybe you could buy some stickers and for each day that you take your medication put a sticker on the calendar. it may sound like it's for kids but it does work. with each sticker you add you get motivated to add another.

edit: just had another thought. usually when i missed a dose on purpose and i would feel worse (including increased suicidal thinking) i would then take my dose anyway. so maybe try to do that as well. the thoughts are a sign you need the medication.


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## Charity (Jun 19, 2009)

...and maybe there could be a reward system involved? Like, when you've managed to get stickers on x days in a row with no missed days, you treat yourself to (fill in the blank)?


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you ITL.   I've actually set them prominently in my home so there right there staring at me all the time.  And I've also doubled the dosage as of yesterday (doctor recommended).  But I think you're bang on - I'm taking it as an indication that my dosage was too low at 20mg...So now, I'm crossing my fingers that I'll notice a difference, that I'll start to care. 

And I may still try the sticker idea - put it in my daily agenda as a little treat to myself.


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

Charity said:


> ...and maybe there could be a reward system involved? Like, when you've managed to get stickers on x days in a row with no missed days, you treat yourself to (fill in the blank)?



I'd just like to feel like me again - the happy version of me.  That person used to enjoy a lot of activities - I think that would be my reward.


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## Charity (Jun 19, 2009)

Maybe _taking your medicine_ might help, poke poke...


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## Jazzey (Jun 19, 2009)

:lol:  What a novel idea? :lol:  I may give this a go


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## Always Changing (Jun 20, 2009)

> I'd just like to feel like me again - the happy version of me.



You will be Jazzey, time and patience will reap it's rewards.  

(I say this also as a reminder to myself)


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