# We're #30; you're #37. Who's #1?



## David Baxter PhD (Sep 12, 2009)

YouTube - We're Number 37


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## Fiver (Sep 12, 2009)

Amen, brother.

It's disgusting, and again I wish satirical videos like this weren't necessary to make such an important point (although I enjoyed the image they used for Canada. )


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## Daniel (Sep 12, 2009)

To give the ending away:

YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?


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## Fiver (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm absolutely disgusted and appalled tonight. Frankly, the US healthcare system is nothing more than another form of discrimination. And right now, I'm fed up with discrimination in all it's forms, and to those who turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect them.


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## NicNak (Sep 12, 2009)

I have tried to follow on the news about Obama's health care reform ideas and I do not quite understand why some of the US people do not like the idea of universal health care.

Can someone from the US,  or anyone else, maybe help me to understand maybe?  Cause I do not understand why the universal health care is upsetting so many people, like the ones apposed to it.


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## Daniel (Sep 12, 2009)

Everyone in my family is against it except possibly me. (I am the only Democrat in my extended family.) And, like most Americans, we all have health insurance.   In any case, it would be ideological suicide for a conservative that wants smaller government:



> The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm _here to help_.'
> 
> --Ronald Reagan


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## NicNak (Sep 12, 2009)

So it is about having a government for which US citizens _think_ might, get/have too much control over them?


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## Daniel (Sep 13, 2009)

That's just one concern.  There is more info at Google News, e.g.:

Voices in the health care debate


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## white page (Sep 13, 2009)

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

It is incomprehensible to me, to see the recent extreme negative reactions in the USA on the subject of the health care program, the fundemental imeaning of democracy seems to have been forgotton.



> *A Short Definition of*
> 
> *Democracy*
> 
> ...


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## white page (Sep 13, 2009)

I just watched the news about the USA, I can't believe the hogwash of the conservative protesters, it seems totally grotesque seen from Europe, why this political amalgam for giving 50,000,000 American citizens access to health care.

Evidently the protesters have never been in the position, of  finding themselves in the position of desperation due to lack of resources. I just don't understand it, it is nothing to do with socialism, it is just plain humanitairism and caring.


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## Fiver (Sep 13, 2009)

You got it. 

"I've got mine; why should my taxes have to pay for yours?" Very few people with decent health insurance pay for it out of their own pocket. Although they probably contribute a certain amount (a very, very small percentage) through payroll deductions, their employer is basically paying for the monthly premiums.

People who are uninsured or underinsured are not just the unemployed; most uninsured are working jobs which do not offer health insurance because they are only "part time." This is a misnomer; part time is nothing more than a job classification. I work between 32 and 40 hours every week and I am still considered "part time" so that I do not have to be offered the same benefits as "full time." I had to wait 18 months before becoming eligible for a reduced-benefit health care package, and I was lucky to be eligible for that much since I'm not classified as a full time employee.

So yeah, you have a lot of people who are basically working 40 or more hours a week but are not offered benefits -- like health insurance -- because they aren't legally entitled to the full-time classification. What grinds my ass is the people who do have jobs with adequate benefits who have the attitude of, "You don't like your lack of benefits? Get a better job. Don't make me pay more taxes because you can't find a job with better benefits" 

I have two sisters who feel exactly this way. It sickens me. It's selfish, and I'm embarrassed to be associated with people who think this way.


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## NicNak (Sep 13, 2009)

I work for a Government agency here.  One customer said how he could get the same service in the US for half the price.    I then told him, the fees collected her go toward education and health care.

He said to me "that is a crock arguement to make, most people in the US have health insurance"  I then told him about a friend of mine who lives in Montana and was on a lenghtly waiting list to see a Psychiatrist to help her (she was on boarderline crisis) and she would have a long wait cause many of the specialists only take a certian about of MedicAid cases.  

This ignorant man said "Well, I guess if one is poor and sick, Canada is the place to be"  

It really saddens me, the selfish attitudes of people in general.  Personally I have great benefits at work and a secure job (off now on sick leave) but I am a fortunet one and I know this.

I could not imagine complaining about how I am taxed while someone is under going a life saving procedure or surgery for which they could not afford otherwise.  In these cases I wish I could do more.

I have never been a "me, me, me, me" type person.  I think that is part of my over all problem, but I do not understand people lacking basic care.  It is baffling.

Here in Canada, there has also been talk of Universal Dental Care (off and on) because they believe that bad oral health can cause other health problems.  If everyone had dental care, it could be a preventive measure.

I have dental coverage with work, but I would never see a problem with Universal Dental care for everyone.

Thanks for helping me to understand what the mentality is among the opposers.   It is awful and I am sorry for anyone who does not recieve good medical benefits, it is not fair at all.  :rant:


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## white page (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks Fiver 

I work part time, I am however fully covered by health insurance, I pay a percentage directly and my employer pays another percentage, for extras such as unusual dental care I have private health insurance about 40 euros a month.

 Unemployed and financially fragile folk have the extra insurance paid for them. I am glad that the taxes I pay go towards helping the fragile and defenceless. 

It hurts when I see banners in the USA saying "*we don't want to be like France"
*
Okay France is far from utopia,but there is still a social conscience in spite of our right wing government.


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## Cat Dancer (Sep 13, 2009)

NicNak said:


> I have tried to follow on the news about Obama's health care reform ideas and I do not quite understand why some of the US people do not like the idea of universal health care.
> 
> Can someone from the US,  or anyone else, maybe help me to understand maybe?  Cause I do not understand why the universal health care is upsetting so many people, like the ones apposed to it.



Obama's health care plan is NOT universal health care. I think there are two or three different health care plans/bills being floated around in the Senate and the House and, honestly, I have tried to read about them and they're confusing. :eek2: I think that is one big issue. I'm not sure if anyone really knows what's being proposed or how it will be implemented. 

I think there are many different reasons why people are reacting they way they are. I think a lot of people don't trust our government to run health care. A lot of people feel that the federal government being involved in education through the No Child Left Behind act has really hurt our educational system. They worry that a similar thing would happen to health care.

I think people also look at the examples that we do currently have of government run health care, Medicaid, Medicare, the VA, and see a lot of waste and corruption and worry that the same would go on if the government took over all health care. 

I think a lot of conservatives DO want some kind of health care reform, but not what is going on in Washington right now. To say their concerns are hogwash isn't really fair and overlooks some of the genuine problems of what might happen.

I do think there are some who have the mentality of not helping anyone for any reason, but I wouldn't put all conservatives into that box. 

I am fairly conservative and I certainly would like to see some kind of health care reform to cover those who can't get insurance. I think we do need to change a lot of things. Honestly I don't know what the best way to do that would be though. I think implementing some kind of plan to cover over 300 million people would be a nightmare and I'm not sure how it would be done, but, again, that doesn't sound like what is being proposed at all in these health care bills. They are SO confusing to me and many others I'm sure. 

The bottom line might be that a lot of people just flat out don't trust our government to do things right. I think it's a legitimate concern. I tend not to trust any politician at all either. 

It's an overwhelming problem to try to solve.


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## Daniel (Sep 13, 2009)

Similarly:



> Less than a third of the country believes Obama has clearly explained his plans for healthcare reform. Two-thirds of independents and more than a third of Democrats believe he hasn't. According to a CNN poll, only one in five believes he or she will be better off after healthcare reform has passed, and 40 percent say they are confused by the proposals. Who can blame them?
> 
> An Unhinged Right Wing. But Why? - CBS News


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## NicNak (Sep 13, 2009)

It is making more sense to me now.  

I tried to watch it on TV and I could not make heads or tails of anything they were saying :blush:

So there are numerous levels of concern with the implimentation of Obamas health care reform ideas.   It is not as simple as I initially thought.

I only seem to be hearing bits and pieces of things in Canada regarding this.  So I was curious to what the issues were.  

I hope that things are worked out in such a way that it is fair for everyone.


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## Daniel (Sep 13, 2009)

Concerning non-catastrophic coverage:

YouTube - John Stossel: Insurance Makes Healthcare Far More Expensive


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## Fiver (Sep 22, 2009)

I believe this it explains it all. I'm sorry that it's not from YouTube and therefore you actually have to click the link.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/041b5acaf5/protect-insurance-companies-psaProtect Insurance Companies PSA


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