# How do labels affect you, if at all?



## Banned (Aug 21, 2011)

It seems that labels are becoming more and more prevalent in their use.  Whether it's to describe someone's mental illness ("he's bipolar", "he's schizo", "he's crazy"), or a physical illness (lazy (think: chronic fatigue), fat (think: thyroid, hormones, arthritis, early pregnancy, actually losing weight but still overweight), or sexuality (gay, lesbo, bi,)...we tend to either attach labels to others or very frequently have labels attached to us.  

A few months ago I attended a job interview and ran into a co-worker from a few years ago from the same company who was also being interviewed for re-hire (we both got the job - yay!).  I had met up with a friend and when I saw this co-worker I asked my friend "oh who is that?  I know I worked with her years ago" and the answer I got was "I can't remember her name but I know she's gay."  This got me thinking about labels...would we ever say "I can't remember her name but I know she's hetero"? 

Do labels serve a productive purpose?  Is it easier to identify segments of society with them?  Why do we need to identify those segments when there isn't a clear purpose?  In my job, there is a clear purpose to identifying people with physical or mental disabilities, but I only refer to their disability if it's completely relevant to the situation and not as a general label of the person.  Why do gay and lesbian people "come out" thereby attaching the label to themselves, but "heteros" (if I'm going to label a group) don't?  Is it more about acceptance and less about labels?  Are the two correlated?

I'd be interested in hearing other people's input on this.  I know how hugely labels have affected me in my own life, both to my benefit and extreme detriment, and may share that further in the thread.

Thoughts?


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## Daniel (Aug 21, 2011)

BTW: Labeling theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Banned (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes I studied labelling theory in my sociology class and was quite interested in it.  We had to write an argument paper about one of the theories and I did choose labelling theory.  I'm more interested in it from a sociological perspective than a psychological, but either way you look at it it's interesting and people's experiences are quite interesting.


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## Daniel (Aug 22, 2011)

something else related to it: 

The Illusion of Asymmetric Insight ? You Are Not So Smart


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## forgetmenot (Aug 22, 2011)

I will not be labeled i won't 
 i see how detrimental labels can be   
 yes one has to be diagnosed but then let it go 
Why does this label have to stay with one all their lives when it is only used for treatment.
Once treatment is working then i think label should be dropped  
Too many time people judge      I find the medical field judge the most   They are the ones that say there goes the borderline  there goes the schizo   etc  
A person loses all one identity once a label is affixed to them


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## Always Changing (Aug 25, 2011)

> A person loses all one identity once a label is affixed to them


 I am not sure this is quite true, at least speaking for myself I do not think it is. Am I not still me even if I have a label or two.?  
From a medical diagnostic point of view,  for me having  label\diagnosis made clear made my life easier (eventually) once I researched it, spoke about it etc and making sure it was the right diagnosis.    

Do labels serve a productive purpose?  I believe they do:  for all sorts of reasons.  If a label helps me to identify dangerous segments of society (pedophiles, rapists etc for inst) then isn't that good?.  By the same token other labels can help identify those segments which are truly trying to make this world a better place by urging better understanding of who they are,  what their label means etc.

Maybe the whole Labeling thing comes back to education.


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## wheelchairdemon (Aug 25, 2011)

Labels are what kept me sick for way too many years because, unfortunately, I believed what the professional said about the label and its associated restrictions (or disability), and I lowered the bar for myself. I stopped striving for things. I felt hopeless. I gave up easily. What a waste.

It's too bad I didn't know then what I know now. That labels are NOT something to put a lot of stock in. For me, they've become something I have learned to use as a motivator to prove the experts wrong.

I've succeeded at proving them wrong for 10 years now. I've been off the medication, away from the psychiatrists, and symptom free of the Bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder I was labeled with for 22 years.

When I realized I was not sick or hopeless, I strove for success. I got a full time job and held it, barely missing a day, for 18 months. I'd never worked full-time before. The only reason I lost the job was because, I use a wheelchair, and I burned out trying to make up for lost transportation to get to work during a 60-day Access Bus strike.  

With no accessible transportation at my disposal, the only way I could get to work was by power wheelchair.  I shaved several hours of sleep off at night so I would have enough time, and I travelled the 11 kms to work by power wheelchair.  At work I would charge my chair so I would have enought juice to get home and run errands to things like the grocery store, etc. 

When the access bus strike ended, I was horrified to hear that 6 buses, including the bus that used to take me to work, had to be permanently taken off of the road.  They're a non-profit chartiable organization and the strike caused them to lose a major funding contract.   

I knew I couldn't keep up the pace much longer, so I went to my family doctor and asked for a medical that would stated that I needed my shift time changed to one that would align with the availability of Access Bus. I was exhausted from shaving 4 

The doctor refused to write it because he said it was outside of his scope.  Instead, he gave me a brand new label; an Adjustment Disorder and wrote in the medical that I was to take 6 weeks off work to avoid the stress.  He prescribed no medication, did not refer me to a psychiatrist, and said our next appointment would be in 2 months time. Needless to say the employer didn't believe him and I eventually lost my job.  

This story just illustrates the power of labels. They can be good if the label leads to tapping into services and supports that would increase ones ability to be fully integrated and accepted into this world. They can be bad when they're used the way my doctor used them.   

The doctor more or less used a label to identify me as having a flaw, a weakness, or being sick, and because no moves were made to  treat the problem, or provide supports that could help alleviate the problem, then the label can be seriously damaging.


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## Banned (Aug 26, 2011)

There's no question labels are powerful, as you've all said.  And yes, they can be very beneficial and sometimes destructive.  

Is a label the same or different from a diagnosis?  To me (and I'm just throwing this out there) a label tends to define something or someone on a bigger level.  A diagnosis defines a specific problem that is not the entire entity.  

When I was trying to figure out what my diagnosis was, what was wrong with me, I really needed that answer.  I needed to label my symptoms.  I knew what the ingredients were - depression, rapid mood swings, anxiety, agitation, hostility, racing thoughts...but I wanted to know what all that meant.  I needed that label.

But...once I got the label (several of them actually, until it got narrowed down), I found I felt I needed to become that label even more.  I found that if I was labeled with a certain illness then people would just expect me to act a certain way so I may as well be that way, even though that wasn't who I truly was.  But...it was part of the experience I guess.  I don't tend to use the label anymore unless it's necessary - ie. when I was applying for life insurance, and, according to my doctor, I'm pretty much recovered and "normal" now.  But the label, while it helped me, it also destroyed me.

Spirit - does a person lose all identity once a label is attached, or does it change/add to their identity?  I would have to respectfully disagree with your statement.  And, I think we need to be bigger than our labels.  Yes, I am technically borderline, and one could call me a borderline, but if I am bigger than my label - take care of myself, stay healthy, etc, while the diagnosis will live on, the label needn't because I won't be exhibiting the symtoms.

I do think labels can be powerful and helpful in the ways that AC mentioned.  We do need to know about certain segments of society, or how to develop treatment plans.  But I also think we need to be careful how we handle labeling others and being labeled.


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## Daniel (Aug 26, 2011)

Well, OTOH, people with depression, for example, tend to already have oversimplified/overgeneralized schemas of themselves even before they are diagnosed.  So the pump is already primed to overidentify.

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------

In other words, even in a perfect society, the disorder itself can lead one to overidentify with the disorder or to engage in label avoidance (rationalize away symptoms).


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## wheelchairdemon (Aug 26, 2011)

Turtle said:


> There's no question labels are powerful, as you've all said.  And yes, they can be very beneficial and sometimes destructive.
> 
> Is a label the same or different from a diagnosis?



In my opinion labels should be different than a diagnosis, but unfortunately, in my experience they are one in the same. What I mean is, by the time I got to my new, and currently excellent, family doctor I'd been through 5 family doctors in about as many years. The clinic I was in was a teaching clinic and they had a high rate of turn-over. When one doctor moved on, I was assigned to another. The thing is, no one read my file. When I got frustrated about, once again having to explain why I was using a wheelchair (even though it was irrelevant to the reason I was there and they should have at least had the courtesy to read my chart when they took over my case), they labelled me. 

I had no idea they were labeling me and that 8 labels - diagnoses - for mental illness had been added to my chart. I had never heard of some of them, I certainly wasn't being treated for any of them. I was not on any medication, I was not seen by a psychiatrist, and I was receiving no other form of therapy. I knew something odd was happening though because I was no longer being treated seriously by the doctors - any doctors in that clinic, emerge, or indeed in my city. 

When I got the new doctor, she's in a clinic where wages are salaried. This means she had time to read through my entire file. She found all the labels and how they are arbitrarily added and then said very clearly, "it's obvious I can never send you to a specialist in this city again."  We're still trying to abolish the stigma and harm done by those labels.

I've since asked her to help me call their bluff. I've passed all the psychological tests several years ago and every single label was ruled out so I figure, if it happened before, it can happen again. I've asked her to send me to another psychiatrist; one that's out of town, well known, and would perhaps have enough of a reputation that whatever they say will be believed next time. 

The psychologist who did the first tests was a Resident so apparently the "real" doctors don't take them seriously.

It's hard to understand how the medical profession can rationalize not treating someone for a physical ailment because they have a mental health label but that, unfortunately, has been my experience in this city.


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## forgetmenot (Aug 26, 2011)

> Spirit - does a person lose all identity once a label is attached, or does it change/add to their identity?


You are still yourself inside in you mind but people don't see YOU people see the label that is all they see and then they judge before they even get to know the real YOU .

If there was no label then they would have to see you as a person not as an illness 

 I agree that a diagnosis needs to be made to get the right treatment but why does one have to be labelled  as that diagnosis 

  Just as a diabetic needs to be diagnosed they are not labeled that people do not say they goes a diabetic 

  Get the diagnosis and treat it and drop the label   I don't know if i am making sense  but that is how i see thing.


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## Banned (Aug 26, 2011)

Eclipse said:


> I agree that a diagnosis needs to be made to get the right treatment but why does one have to be labelled as that diagnosis
> 
> Just as a diabetic needs to be diagnosed they are not labeled that people do not say they goes a diabetic



Exactly what I was trying to say (or at least thinking!) - you just said it much better.


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## Jesse910 (Aug 29, 2011)

My thoughts resonate with Wheelchair demon.  As long as I was going into a clinic to see a shrink, I felt labeled as Bipolar patient.  There was a security guard right at the entrance to the building.  I was put through the usual questions to ascertain whether or not I was suicidual.  Just driving to the office made me feel very guarded.  I did not want to be there because I knew that I was more than just "bipolar."  When I dismissed my shrink nearly 6 1/2 yrs ago, I was able to find a therapist who I could finally work with and a regular doctor who monitors my meds.  Please note that I've been on the same meds for 20+ years.  Thus, while I have bipolar, I have worked hard to reduce the stigma.  At times, I find myself still being cautious, but I'm calling my own shots.


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## Daniel (Aug 29, 2011)

Yeah, that reminds me of how lucky I was to have my first psychiatrist who was great and would focus on my positive qualities, use humor, and ask me about things other than my problems, etc.  Ironically, I also had most of my suicide attempts during that time due to other factors (like being a depressed teenager with more hopelessness than psychoeducation).


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## Jesse910 (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm so thankful for the responses to this issue of labelling.  It's clear that we're all on the same pages.  Now, how do we change the medical profession?


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## Banned (Aug 29, 2011)

I had a follow-up with my psychiatrist today and while I was walking through the waiting room (of course, wondering why everyone else was there) I also wondered what people were thinking of me. I wondered how they were labelling me. It's a mental health office - all psychiatrists and psychologists - so they know "something" is wrong with me. Even speaking to the receptionist I wondered if she was talking to me thinking "oh another crazy". Even though I am doing awesome - my psychiatrist is thrilled and has "labelled" me as "normal" now, - being in that environment was hard, wondering what others were thinking about me. I wanted to be invisible, but with the old "fake it til you make it" I held my head high and did what we could.

Jessie - I think there has been a lot of movement to re-educate the medical profession regarding mental health issues, but I think it's more than a monumental task. I hate to be a pessimist but I think there will always be only a very small handful of doctors who truly understand and appreciate mental health issues. 

My pyschiatrist I have now is amazing. My last one I was initially referred to two years ago, I've come to learn, was charged with sexually assaulting two clients, and hospitalized for psychosis believing he was married to one of them. My psychiatrist before that pled guilty to defrauding OHIP of almost $15,000 and taking patients to his cottage for sexual exploits. Even in the mental health field we need to do our due diligence, "buyer beware", and not be as trusting at times as we should be able to. These mental health professionals took advanted of mentally unhealthy individuals, adding to the stigma and perhaps demonstrating their own ignorance of mental health issues.


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## wheelchairdemon (Sep 1, 2011)

Turtle said:


> My pyschiatrist I have now is amazing. My last one I was initially referred to two years ago, I've come to learn, was charged with sexually assaulting two clients, and hospitalized for psychosis believing he was married to one of them. My psychiatrist before that pled guilty to defrauding OHIP of almost $15,000 and taking patients to his cottage for sexual exploits.



I got caught up with one of these rouge psychiatrists too. He was found guilty of raping some patients and was sent to Kingston Penn for 5 years. He also lost his medical license.

The sad part is, his assessment of me as being mentally ill because I wasn't in a relationship at the age of 19 and having sex on a regular basis, led to a diagnosis and decision that permanently damaged my life. He said I had a borderline personality disorder, and he continued prescribing the high doses of medication his predecessor psychiatrist started giving me at the age of 15. I was taking doses that were far above what was recommended in the CPS. The caused me to drool, slur my speech, and made it impossible for me to get a job or get integrated into the community when they discharged me and left me to fend for myself alone. 

By the age of 23, I gave up hope so this sex maniac psychiatrist, who by this point had me attending sex therapy as well, sent me to the big house - the  psychiatric hospital in another city and miles away from my family and friends.

I was shocked when I learned several years later that he had been found guilty of rape, lost his license, and had to serve time. 

Too bad the damage he, and the former psychiatrist, caused can never be erased.


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## Banned (Sep 2, 2011)

I am sorry to hear of your experience, WCD.  I'm trying not to drift this thread, but it's going to happen anyway (and maybe I can tie it all together after ).

Unfortunately these rogue doctors and therapists are human first, and doctors by training, which means they come with all kinds of faults and sometimes ulterior motives or incompetence.  

I wonder if the labels attached to people who struggle with mental illness make them think we are easier to abuse, manipulate, take advantage of?  (There - I said I'd tie it together and I did )

I think it's really unfortunate given our existing vulnerabilities but I also know it's not isolated to the mental health profession.  In every profession there are people who are really good at their jobs and others who are really poor at their jobs.  I am thankful that in my bad experiences (two bad psychiatrists, a therapist who would fall asleep in session, another who always forgot to show up, etc) I do have one really good one who has stood by me for seven years.  So...there are some good ones out there, even if it takes a bit longer to find them, when we do, it's worth it.  I also have a fantastic psychiatrist (now!) and family doctor and another specialist who is the first to listen to me and my body and help me get a surgery I've been asking for for 18 years.  

The damage caused by previous doctors can never be erased, but you also have the power to do everything possible to move past it.  You don't have to be a victim to their abuse any longer.  I hope your life will move forward in a positive direction for you.  You deserve it.


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## wheelchairdemon (Sep 2, 2011)

Turtle said:


> The damage caused by previous doctors can never be erased, but you also have the power to do everything possible to move past it.  You don't have to be a victim to their abuse any longer.  I hope your life will move forward in a positive direction for you.  You deserve it.



No truer words were spoken.

There's a silver lining to everything. It took awhile to find it and I really had to look hard, but now that I've found it, I've discovered life can be sweet. 

It's still hard to accept is that the impact of the labels can never be erased. The proof of this comes up time and time again, if I make the mistake of getting sick and going to the After-Hours or Emerge. You see, the computers are all interlinked so, no matter where I go, the label will show up.

Whenever they see me, things show up to minimize the condition and they don't treat it. The irregular heart beat was supposedly caused by anxiety and was not treated for several years. I now know it's a legitimate heart issue for which further investigation and treatment will be done in Toronto. The asthma, that for 2 years under my old doctor was labelled as a panic attack, finally got treated in Toronto because my new doctor took me seriously and sent me for tests before assuming there was nothing wrong.

The nerve pain has been identified in my file by Emerge as "putative" pain that I say I have so I can get narcotics. I don't take them, I don't want them, and I've been off them for years. If you look up the definition of the word putative, it means supposed.

The severe reflux with blood was apparently a sommotization disorder and was left untreated. It turned out the Naproxin (an anti-inflamatory) was causing problems.  I suspected there was a relationship between the reflux and the drug, so I looked it up on the internet. I discovered it could very well be the culprit, so asked the pharmacist about it, and then stopped it. The reflux went away.

In another file it says I became quite histronic when the doctor said I didn't have the condition that put me in a wheelchair. I think the word he wanted to use was hysterical, but who am I to say. 

Other upsetting things I found in my file with these labels that were scattered liberally throughout, were lines like, "sorry I can't help this poor unfortunate woman" or "this most difficult and complex lady...." or "I have simply reassured her and I recommend you (the GP) send her to a psychiatrist."

Such is the power of labels.

The silver lining is my doctor found all these labels and is now doing something to erase them.


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## Jazzey (Sep 2, 2011)

If I'm really honest...I find this thread offensive.  it's a means to perpetuating stereotypes...and promoting feeling sorry for ourselves.  I've ignored it for some time now...because of my reaction to it.  

In my mind's eye...mental health issues are hard to begin with.  I'm not sure that I understand the purpose in analyzing other people's poor behaviour.  yeah fine...it's hard on the ego to be labelled.  You cannot change people's perspective.  And when I read this thread, I kinda feel as tho it's feeding into the masses...As tho psychology / psychiatry is this negative thing...Even tho the language is couched "more politely".  

Gossip mongering...That's what I equate it to.  Serves no benefit to anyone.  You want to stop labelling...inform people.  Be vocal. Get involved in the community and start educating.  People who want to label..will.  We cannot change that...but, can start being honest about mental illness...and not perpetuate certain stereotypes.  We should never be made to feel that it's ok to repeat some of the crap we've heard.   Nor should we use it to feel sorry for some of the stuff we've been dealt.

IMHO


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## Daniel (Sep 2, 2011)

While it's true that blaming other people isn't going to help with recovery or developing self-efficacy, it's not like these are non-issues, e.g.



> Modified Labeling theory has been described as a "sophisticated social-psychological model of 'why labels matter' ". In 2000 results from a prospective two-year study of patients discharged from a mental hospital (in the context of deinstitutionalization) showed that stigma was a powerful and persistent force in their lives, and that experiences of social rejection were a persistent source of social stress. *Efforts to cope with labels, such as* not telling anyone, *educating people about mental distress/disorder*, withdrawing from stigmatizing situations,* could result in further social isolation and reinforce negative self-concepts*. Sometimes an identity as a low self-esteem minority in society would be accepted. The stigma was associated with diminished motivation and ability to "make it in mainstream society" and with "a state of social and psychological vulnerability to prolonged and recurrent problems". There was an up and down pattern in self-esteem, however, and it was suggested that, rather than simply gradual erosion of self-worth and increasing self-deprecating tendencies, people were sometimes managing, but struggling, to maintain consistent feelings of self-worth. Ultimately, "a cadre of patients had developed an entrenched, negative view of themselves, and their experiences of rejection appear to be a key element in the construction of these self-related feelings" and "hostile neighbourhoods may not only affect their self-concept but may also ultimately impact the patient's mental health status and how successful they are".
> 
> Labeling theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



(The above excerpt is another example of why self-acceptance is so important.)


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## Jazzey (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm not disagreeing with you, on a premise-basis.  I guess I wish that we were more careful on the presentation...

Makes me think of an old episode of the Cosby show...where he's talking about his daughter's engagement....He goes thru this whole thing where he talks about his favorite meal.  And how his favorite meal is presented on the lid of a garbage can.  He adds: "it's all in the presentation".

That's my thinking a little on this..."it's all in the presentation".  It can never be a "woe is me" kinda deal.  None of us deserve that.  And that was my point in my post....

It can never be about "woe is me".


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## wheelchairdemon (Sep 2, 2011)

Displaced said:


> If I'm really honest...I find this thread offensive.  it's a means to perpetuating stereotypes...and promoting feeling sorry for ourselves.  I've ignored it for some time now...because of my reaction to it.  IMHO



I apologize for anything I said because I sure wasn't meaning to be offensive.

Let's try this another way.

What are people's experiences when they get a label or are mentally ill? For me, it has always been treated as a very negative thing; I must learn to ignore the negative, seek the positive, and figure out how to do this all on my own.

Maybe in other places the experience is different.  I tend to believe I do need help because it's obvious that my level of frustration is high enough that the issues are never taken seriously enough. I just can't get the help because, in 2002, I did too well on testing for Employment Supports. The psychological tested ruled out evidence of BPD and Bi-polar and I was thrilled; so thrilled that I shared the good news with everyone.

What I didn't expect was that I would instantly lose the psychiatrist, the community mental health team support, indeed all support (even the crisis line) forever.

The repercussions of this, when I spent most of my life within a system, was I didn't have a clue what to do. I'd never lived alone before, let alone lived alone in an apartment using a wheelchair, and with absolutely no home health care support to help me figure out how to manage. 

I also get criticized all the time when I ask for help, can't get it, and get down and depressed because I don't know why I lost every thing. I'm told to never talk about the negative - always talk about the positive - and so I do that. In many ways I find it helps to look for the good, but I'm still at a dead loss as to why I've been set adrift by myself on the sea just because I happened to do a little too well on the testing.  

My frustration level is still too high and it is rendering me mute, so to be honest, I don't know how to communicate anymore. 

I've been taught that mental illness is shameful and, although I don't agree that it should be, I still distance myself from the labels as much as possible because, when I have them, it is making things worse. 

I hope this makes sense.  I certainly never meant to offend anyone ever.


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## Jazzey (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh...I'm sorry WD...I did not intend to make anyone regret this thread....I'm sorry for doing that.  That was not my intent.  I really appreciate people being honest..up front.  So I'm sorry.  

I get angry at times.  But I appreciate that's more about me...it's not about any of you..so I'm sorry.  I meant no offense.


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## wheelchairdemon (Sep 2, 2011)

Displaced said:


> Oh...I'm sorry WD...I did not intend to make anyone regret this thread...



No worries.  I'm in a situation that is very complex, and that no one, including myself, can understand. Please don't feel bad. My situation is far from normal.  I'm just thankful that I, on my own, found a way to stay positive and move on. 

No one, but no one, should have to go through the type of nightmare I went through for doing well on a test though. Enough said.


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## CashmereCactus (Sep 4, 2011)

Have you ever noticed how people describe physical and mental afflictions differently? For example, "Bob has arthritis" vs "Amy is bi-polar". No one says "Tim is cancer." Why are folks with mental illnesses thought of as the disorder itself? That rules out the zillion other things a person might be. What a shame...


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## Banned (Sep 5, 2011)

I agree, Cashmere Cactus.  And I think I said it somewhere else - we are so much bigger than our diagnoses.  Bipolar or depression or anxiety are symptoms of other things, but we're also intelligent, creative, insightful, funny, romantic, hard-working, etc.  I find myself doing it to myself - "I'm borderline"...and I smack myself (figuratively) every time.  That's just a very, very tiny part of who I am as a whole.  We just need to teach the rest of the world to see and understand that as well.  Just a bit of a daunting task...


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