# Driving myself crazy with jealousy



## HotthenCold (Jan 26, 2010)

BAH!!!!!

I can't stop being jealous and it's causing me to have suicidal thoughts, thoughts of breaking up just to hurt her, and such a disgusting feeling of helplessness and pettiness because I can't trust a girl who's willing to put so much effort in to the relationship.

I have always been jealous in relationships and I've been working on overcoming it for a long time. THere have been times when I thought I had developed enough self confidence and enough of a routine for when I'm experiencing jealousy that I was pretty much past it. But here i am draggin myself through the mud again and feeling totalyl unable to break my focus on the subject and feel good...actually I'm able to somewhat break the focus but I have that hovering fear that I'll be right in the pit of jealousy and anger soon enough.

I know that the responsible thing to do if I can't work through it is to break off the relationship, but I can't bring my self to do that.
She knows I'm jealous, and accepts me and wants to work with me to overcome it because she sees how much I love her and how full of life I am when I'm not starting arguments over jealousy.

There are many things about her that I find hard to accept. 

She has had many sexual partners (so have I but this is one of those double standards that I can't stop holding her to, I know, it's weak)

She has told me she loves male attention, and I hate this because I am not okay with my partner flirting with other guys, checking them out, or just inviting that kind of temptation in to the relationship. 

Also, she has told me she has cheated on past boyfriends but would never cheat on me. and I have good reason to believe her as we are very intimate, and I share pretty much all of what I share on this forum with her, so we've talked very in depth and promised each other full honesty and no cheating EVER.

But i still can't get over my feeling that she would cheat on me.

This is because of a few reasons.

1) I see her looking at other men, because she tells me 'she appreciates beauty and is just looking'. 
2)has many male friends, is very attractive, likes to go to clubs, and is constnalty being approached and hit on. 
3) She has told me she loves male attention and wants to get back in to bartending. The fact that she wants to get in to an atmosphere that invites so much tempation really makes me sad.
4) I have a deep distrust of the fidelity of any human sexual and love relationship. Part of me wants to believe that love is total and overcomes out basic drives, but part of me really is cynical and thinks that relationships only serve a functional reproductive purpose and our individual and societal beliefs of fidelity and monogamy are strictly to protect our primitive need to escape the pain our ego would feel at being rejected for another.

Also, I can't trust women because our society promotes so much selfishness for both sexes. Men be manly and go mess around and women do anything you want because the onyl thing that matters is your needs being met, and damn anyone who gets hurt in the process. Like its's cute and empowering to cheat.

As I write all of this the absurdity of it smacks me in the face. I should either just break up with her or continue to talk with her about it and struggle on, but I'm afraid of pushing her away even though she said I should always be totally honest with her.

I don't just want to cope, I want to become the man who is confident enough to appreciate and honour the gift of such a great love from another and be able to handle the potential for rejection and uncertainty because I realize the downsides to love are vastly out done by the beauty of it...but I'm not.

just getting this all out there in the hopes that by some miracle I finally learn to kill this disgusting green eyed monster and get on with my life.


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## Daniel (Jan 26, 2010)

HotthenCold said:
			
		

> She has sold me she loves male attention and wants to get back in to bartending. The fact that she wants to get in to an atmosphere that invites so much tempation really makes me sad.


I don't have any advice, but I would feel jealous, too:



> Getting chatted up can and is an ego boost, but the last thing I would ever do to someone I care about is to tell them I love it! If I'm happy and secure with someone I don't need that type of validation to shore up my ego...
> 
> If your girlfriend needs male attention when she's in good form, what is she going to be like after a huge fight or when she's feeling very low?
> 
> Girlfriend loves getting chatted up - a big ego boost !


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## Andy (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm just going to write what I think from reading this post. I don't intend to be rude or anything like that, I am just giving you feedback on what I got from this. 

I'm sure your girlfriend is a great person, but I can understand why you would be jealous. If you two are exclusive then she shouldn't really need to be out trying to get attention from other men.  That's something a single female would do in my opinion.  That is the point of being in a relationship. It's almost as if she is getting the best of both worlds.  Security of a man at home yet, all the attention she is use to having.   

Anyway, aside from that if she has told you she has cheated before on top of this other information, I think you have every right to be insecure about these things.

I wouldn't even say your jealous at this point.  To me jealous is if your girlfriend speaks to another guy innocently without any flirtation going on from either person and you fly off the handle, to me that would be jealous. 

I'd say insecurity, maybe jealousy. I wouldn't beat yourself up over this, as I do think your reasons are valid, but you say this is something you usually do in relationships so maybe you need to look at why it is you get jealous and insecure. Do you go to therapy, or would you?

If she is willing to put so much effort into the relationship maybe you could tell her this and she could help ease your worries by being happy to have just your attention.  If the relationship is causing you more stress and suicidal thoughts then is it really worth it? Do you see this girl as "the one" or is it just for now? 

K, and this bugged me lol:



> Also, I can`t trust women because our society promotes so much selfishness for both sexes. Men be manly and go mess around and women do anything you want because the onyl thing that matters is your needs being met, and damn anyone who gets hurt in the process. Like its`s cute and empowering to cheat.



I agree that there is a double standard, but it's more like, guys are studs if they cheat and women are sluts or whores.  That's a pretty generalized statement, I would never be like that in a relationship, i would never hurt my partner, and I would never cheat. Personally I don't think it's empowering or cute to cheat and I certainly would not call a man "manly" if he cheated, that would be the furthest thing from my mind. 

Anyway, I hope I made some sense and didn't offend you to much (as I know some of it was a little...blunt maybe).


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## Lana (Jan 26, 2010)

The problem I have with all this is that the girlfriend is being made the primary cause of jealous feelings.  That, I'm sorry to say, is not true.  No one can "make" you feel anything that's not already within you.  Similarly, being in a relationship does not mean becoming immune or unappreciative of attention from others.  I know this may fluff some feathers, but I truly believe that attention from others for your partner is a compliment to you.  Yes, YOU!  Personally, it tickles me pink when someone compliments my husband.  

I think that there are definitely some issues to work over.  Some of the thing is to consider are your own view of women and their roles (including the double standard that you admit to embracing).  But one I'd start with is insecurity.  I'd also re-examine what you thought of the women you "dated", what did you think of them, what made you choose them, how did the relationship work out, how long it lasted, etc.  In short, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and stop looking to your girlfriend as a cause for jealousy.  She may be a trigger, but she can't "make" you jealous...no more than she can "make" you feel secure.


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## Yuray (Jan 26, 2010)

Under what circumstance did you come to meet this woman?  Was she appreciating your beauty and approached you?



> She knows I`m jealous, and accepts me and wants to work with me to overcome it because she sees how much I love her and how full of life I am when I`m not starting arguments over jealousy.



What is she doing to help you with your issues?  What CAN she do to help you with your issues?




> Also, I can`t trust women because our society promotes so much selfishness for both sexes. Men be manly and go mess around and women do anything you want because the onyl thing that matters is your needs being met, and damn anyone who gets hurt in the process. Like its`s cute and empowering to cheat.



nonsense! I live in this society you speak of and I am not aware of these things, except in a minority of people struggling perhaps with identity and self esteem problems.




> I don`t just want to cope, I want to become the man who is confident enough to appreciate and honour the gift of such a great love from another and be able to handle the potential for rejection and uncertainty because I realize the downsides to love are vastly out done by the beauty of it...but I`m not.



This statement is almost poetic. Not many could articulate so well the meaning of of having one true love, with so few words, and it is a testament to the depth at which you can think. Now we know you can think deep, what would you suggest to someone on the same situation?

I understand the difficulty in leaving someone you love, and then second guessing the reason, and I don't envy the short list of choices you have......we have all been there at one time, as have you as well in the past. There is no easy way out of this one. She complies with your desires while you work on your faults. Ask her for this token gesture. A commitment to match your commitment. Much to lose if it doesn't work, but as you say, if it works, the downsides of love are vastly outdone by the beauty of it. Sounds like a chance worth taking.


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## Andy (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> The problem I have with all this is that the girlfriend is being made the primary cause of jealous feelings.  That, I'm sorry to say, is not true.  No one can "make" you feel anything that's not already within you.  Similarly, being in a relationship does not mean becoming immune or unappreciative of attention from others.  I know this may fluff some feathers, but I truly believe that attention from others for your partner is a compliment to you.  Yes, YOU!  Personally, it tickles me pink when someone compliments my husband.


 
If this was directed at my response and I don't know if it was or not, I'd just like to say that I wasn't putting all the blame on the girlfriend. I was validating why I thought he had every right to feel the way he did. I also suggested he look into his feelings of jealousy and insecurity.

I agree people can't "make"you feel a certain way, but they sure can help get those feelings to develop. 

Plus I think the situation is a bit different(correct me if I am wrong) when a girl wants attention at a club. A bunch of (possibly) drunk guys, not a single person saying a compliment. That is what I was referring to.  

Just didn't want my words twisted around there, from a different perspective.


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## Lana (Jan 26, 2010)

STP said:


> If this was directed at my response and I don't know if it was or not....
> Just didn't want my words twisted around there, from a different perspective.


 No, STP, this was not directed at you at all.  The reply was for HotThenCold since he was the one seeking feedback.


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## Andy (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> The problem I have with all this is that the girlfriend is being made the primary cause of jealous feelings.  That, I'm sorry to say, is not true.  No one can "make" you feel anything that's not already within you.  Similarly, being in a relationship does not mean becoming immune or unappreciative of attention from others.  I know this may fluff some feathers, but I truly believe that attention from others for your partner is a compliment to you.  Yes, YOU!  Personally, it tickles me pink when someone compliments my husband.



Sorry, I just thought since you used things I had said and that he had not, that it was. You can understand why I would think that, yes?


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## Lana (Jan 26, 2010)

STP said:


> Sorry, I just thought since you used things I had said and that he had not, that it was. You can understand why I would think that, yes?


 
Actually, no I do not.  I did not address even one thing that you said, STP, or Yuray, or Daniel.  My response was structured solely on HotthenCold's initial post.


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## Domo (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> Personally, it tickles me pink when someone compliments my husband.


Would it tickle you pink if you husband went around flirting with other women and confirmed that he needs that attention? Had a history of being unfaithful and was even going to get a job that allowed them to do it all the time.

A compliment is hardly comparable.


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## Andy (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> Actually, no I do not.  I did not address even one thing that you said, STP, or Yuray, or Daniel.  My response was structured solely on HotthenCold's initial post.


 
Okay. Fair enough. I read it in a completely different way, and still do.  That's all good.  I just wanted to make sure my words weren't being looked at in a different perspective then I intended them to be read by HotthenCold.


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## Lana (Jan 26, 2010)

David Baxter said:


> it's not really germane to the dicussion, since the discussion is about jealousy and commitment in relationships.


...


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> I have no idea why that particular comment prompted this line of questioning.



I assume because you implied that in Hotthencold's shoes you would be happy with the partner's behavior.

While I agree that jealousy is largely the problem of the person feeling jealous, that is not to say that, like most things in any relationship, there isn't sometimes an interactive component to it.

I do agree with most of what you've said here, Lana. However, the point on the other side of yours that is being made in this thread is not necessarily that the woman in this case is responsible for Hotthencold's jealousy but rather that there are aspects of her behavior that are contributing to the problem. Note I didn't say causing the problem - contributing to it.



Lana said:


> However, my point was that when a person is in a jealous fit, their perception is skewed.  In addition, it is very very difficult and unpleasant to be around someone that is jealous or overly insecure.  It gets tiring because no amount of assurance satisfies him or her.  If a person is insecure, or cynical, or overly sarcastic, or dismissing, or doesn't trust for whatever reason...nothing, not one thing is going to satisfy them...even if their partner was to chain him or her self to the wall in the dungeon and never set an eye on another living being.  The problem would be the same -- within the jealousy bearer.  And jealousy always works the opposite you want it to...in other words, the more jealous the person is, the more likely their partner to leave them.  Why?  Simple...that person would be drawn to someone that is not always scared or depressed or angry or accusing.  Honestly, I feel icky just writing this for I could  never ever survive in a relationship that courts and entertains jealousy.  So, to answer your question, Domo....if I was dating someone that was so jealous....well, I wouldn't be dating them for long.



My guess is that you would also not be proclaiming that you love the attention of other men and flirting with other men, and purposely going out of your way to put yourself in situations where this is easier to accomplish, knowing that this would be distressing to your husband. Am I wrong?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 26, 2010)

The point I'm making is that if you love someone, part of loving him/her is (a) not to place restrictions on him/her or try to prevent him/her from being the person s/he is (the point you are making, Lana) and part of it is (b) caring about whether your partner is happy or unhappy, and not intentionally doing things you know will distress him/her.

Somewhere in there is a healthy balance between the freedom to be an individual within a relationship and the sensitivity to your partner that is required to sustain the relationship.

In this case, I'm not entirely certain that either Hotthencold or his girlfriend have found that balance.


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## Lana (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree wholeheartedly, David.  And the sensitivity you speak of goes both ways.  That was the other point I was making.  So yes, balance is essential, absolutely.  Which goes back to my initial point: it may not be all her doing...and she's certainly not here to tell her side of the story, is she?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 26, 2010)

No, it's almost certainly NOT all her doing. But I think Hotthtnecold acknowledged that at the outset.


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## Domo (Jan 26, 2010)

Lana said:


> I don't know....I probably would go out to get attention I feel I deserve...not necessarily to upset him more...but just to enjoy myself.


That's kind of disturbing. Not necessarily? If you went out seeking attention because you felt like you were not getting it from your partner. All just to prop up your ego...

Meanwhile I don't think his girlfriend is getting compliments such as 'oh your hair looks nice today'.


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## Yuray (Jan 26, 2010)

We seem to have buried Hottencolds needs here requesting a direction to his situation, and getting a little to defensive about what has been said by whom.

(and yes, I have been guilty many times of the same thing)


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## Daniel (Jan 26, 2010)

HotthenCold said:
			
		

> it's causing me to have suicidal thoughts


All the more reason to bring this up in therapy, e.g. love sickness.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 28, 2010)

A committed relationship is a committed relarionship, whether the couple is married or not. I'm not sure how marriage changes any of the things under discussion in this thread.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jan 28, 2010)

Lana said:


> The problem with this question, and others, is that they question how I'd behave with respect to my *husband*.



Actually it doesn't. That was a rhetorical question related to a general discussion and in answer to a personal point you made. How you behave with your husband isn't the issue.



Lana said:


> As I pointed out....that is how I'd do things....for me, there is a difference between dating a man and being married to one.  You, of course, are free to deal with your relationship any which way you like.



Actually, you made this statement above:



Lana said:


> Bottom line..you can't compare dating to marriage.



That sounds like a generalization to me. And I am suggesting that it's not necessarily true. And if it isn't, then it's not really germane to the discussion, since the discussion is about jealousy and commitment in relationships.


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