# Questions about suicide



## Shaymus

I read several mental health forums and it seems most times when people get suicidal their feelings are numbed and what not. For me its the exact opposite! I freak out over every little thing and if it happens to be a big thing thats when suicide seems like the right choice. My emotions seem so extreme its overwhelming,my brain never turns off it just keeps going. I need a tv on at night or ill just sit their with my thoughts all night long which is terrible.  Why am i so weird? Ive been diagnosed with dysthymia and anxiety/social anxiety. I look up dysthymia online and one called it mild depression! Why am i having such horrible problems then? Am i truly so weak that i cant even stand the mild version of depression? 

Im currently taking Lexapro(30mgs) and ativan as needed(but i took them all already). I see a therapist once or twice a month but we never really talk about WHY i feel like crap. Instead he trys to get me to see im a good guy and shouldnt be so hard on myself. This isnt working one bit. You cant convince me im not a horrible person,ive done too many evil selfish things. 

My main question tho is How come most suicidal people i see online are all numb and whatnot(something id kill for) and im an emotional mess feeling way too much when i am feeling like this?  I even tried messing with my drugs to turn my brain off,nothing works and it just keeps getting worse. 

I recently got insurance(state poor people) thats pretty good,so if you have some thoughts of what kind of therapist i might need to get i can do that.  Im willing to try almost anything right now as im on the edge.


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus said:
			
		

> I read several mental health forums and it seems most times when people get suicidal their feelings are numbed and what not. For me its the exact opposite! I freak out over every little thing and if it happens to be a big thing thats when suicide seems like the right choice.


Whether someone contemplating suicide feels calm, numb, frightened, worried, anxious, depressed, etc., depends on the individual and how certain the person is in his or her own mind about the "plan" to commit suicide.



> My emotions seem so extreme its overwhelming, my brain never turns off it just keeps going. I need a tv on at night or ill just sit their with my thoughts all night long which is terrible.  Why am i so weird? I've been diagnosed with dysthymia and anxiety/social anxiety. I look up dysthymia online and one called it mild depression! Why am i having such horrible problems then? Am i truly so weak that i cant even stand the mild version of depression?


The term "mild depression" is (1) a relative one -- "severe depression" is used for someone whose depression is at a level where they may be unable to get out of bed or move to perform even simple tasks; and (2) a bit of a misnomer because it really refers to "chronic depression" in which the symptoms are not suffficiently severe to meet the criteria for Major Depressive Episode -- however, someone suffering from dysthymia may experience one or more Major Depressive Episodes and then return to the dysthymic state. And by the way, this has nothing to do with "weakness" versus "strength"...



> I'm currently taking Lexapro (30 mgs) and ativan as needed (but i took them all already). I see a therapist once or twice a month but we never really talk about WHY i feel like crap. Instead he trys to get me to see im a good guy and shouldnt be so hard on myself. This isnt working one bit. You cant convince me I'm not a horrible person, I've done too many evil selfish things.
> 
> My main question tho is How come most suicidal people i see online are all numb and what not (something id kill for) and im an emotional mess feeling way too much when i am feeling like this?  I even tried messing with my drugs to turn my brain off, nothing works and it just keeps getting worse.


You say your diagnosis is dysthymia and social anxiety disorder. Who made that diagnois and when? Who is monitoring your medications? How long have you been seeing your current therapist "once or twice a month", and is this a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, or what?



> I recently got insurance(state poor people) thats pretty good,so if you have some thoughts of what kind of therapist i might need to get i can do that.  Im willing to try almost anything right now as im on the edge.


First, if you are not finding your current therapist helpful, by all means look for another one. Some may be more knowledgeable about your specific issues than others, but there's also the "comfort factor": For maximum benefit, your therapist should be someone you are comfortable with, trust, and have confidence in -- if you don't feel that your current therapist doesn't meet all those criteria, it's probably time to find another one.

As for "what kind of therapist", that depends in part on how accurate the current diagnosis is for you -- it's possible that those diagnoses fit the major symptoms but there may be an underlying disorder at the root of both (e.g., obsessive-compulsive disorder, or a personality disorder).


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## Shaymus

The psychologist at Catholic Charities made the diagnoses about 2 months ago maybe. I think ive had about 4 sessions with him.  Hehe no one monitors my meds,,im 29 years old i get to do that all by myself. 

The problem im having is i have social anxiety im never gonna feel comfortable with a therapist until my brain accepts them as non strangers or whatever.  So finding one i feel comfortable with could take years and years which is crazy. 

Do you really think by one post i have even more stuff messed up with me in my head? That isnt a snotty question(it came across snotty to me so i added this) im truly curious.


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## David Baxter PhD

I'm not trying to say that the disagnosis is incorrect, merely that some of your comments in the first post made me wonder about other possibilities -- not necessarily "even more stuff messed up with [your] head" but rather something that might be manifested in symptoms of both anxiety and depression. The part about intrusive thoughts, for example, and "You cant convince me I'm not a horrible person, I've done too many evil selfish things" made me curious about the possibility of OCD.


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## Shaymus

OCD causes people to do evil selfish things? Like for instance stealing your sisters gold coins for money or stealing stuff out of peoples cars? I didnt do these things for any reason other than being selfish and wanting money. Thankfully im older now and can refrain from most of these things but still that doesnt sound like anything more than evil selfishness,not ocd(not that i know much about it).  I guess i can read up on it tho,thanks.


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## sammy

Shaymus- I don't know if you're a Catholic (you mentioned that your therapist is from Catholic charities).
Please forgive me if that's not relevant at all.
But I'm a Christian myself, and when you talk about 'evil selfishness, ' it makes me wonder...
I do believe that every human being is selfish... that is the way we are basically tuned.
We all feel a strong sense of 'self'-preservation, an instinct to put ourselves first...
But 'evil'-selfishness??? The two don't always go hand in hand.
Robbing others, as a young person, to get money, may be quite common.
As you said, you do not do it now... you are maturing.

Yes, you may be selfish, as I am/can be, and most of us are... but that is not necessarily evil. 

Just incase you are a Catholic, - there is full forgiveness available you know 

edited for spelling mistake...


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus said:
			
		

> OCD causes people to do evil selfish things? Like for instance stealing your sisters gold coins for money or stealing stuff out of peoples cars? I didnt do these things for any reason other than being selfish and wanting money. Thankfully im older now and can refrain from most of these things but still that doesnt sound like anything more than evil selfishness,not ocd(not that i know much about it).  I guess i can read up on it tho,thanks.


"evil selfishness' is s trong phrase -- no, I don't mean that OCD causes people to do evil things, but rather ome form of OCD may cause you to brood / ruminate / obsess about such things.

Also, see Sammy's post above: Most (well over half) children and teens engage in at least one or two "antisocial" acts such as what you describe -- it doesn't make you "evil".


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## sammy

My son, stole money from my brother's house when staying there with his sister overnight, (so me and my husband could go to a mini-conference)...

we talked about it and realised it was very probably because we hadn't started to give him any 'pocket-money'... 
we did that and there were no more problems...
sometimes, stealing in younger people can be from perceived need...

Dear Shaymus...I hope you can hear that no-one is judging you...
did you feel that you _needed_ something when you stole?


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## Shaymus

Im not catholic but i was raised catholic and had to get confirmed for my parents. I just pulled up two instances of evil selfishness,,i have many more examples to offer. I was arrested for felony theft at one point for stealing golf clubs out of some strangers car. I stole gas several times. I took my dads money(silver certificates?) and bought firecrackers with them when very young. I lit a field on fire. I used my sisters cell phone and charged up $1,000 of bills on it.  I stole from some friends parents. I would have to write a book of what i stole from friends,,from something as silly as one of those small toy cars as a kid to cds and drugs and whatever else i thought i could get away with. I lived in my car for a while and lived on writing bad checks,id have to guess at least over 50 of them.  Obviously wanting drugs(marijuana tho,so its not like i was some addict for an excuse,i have none) had something to do with some of these things but others i just did cause i could even tho i would feel terrible afterwards.  I guess i very well could have ocd cause these thoughts of that time parade thru my head daily and the regret and stupidity of it all crushes me.  The most evil and selfish thing ive ever done tho is what ive been doing the last year or so. Which is exactly nothing. Afraid to be judged by going outside i hide in my house and earn zero money and put a serious drain on my families(girlfriend +2 daughters) financial standing. We are poor as hell and its my fault.  Everyone else struggles thru and i sit here boo hooing while doing nothing day after day. Thats the part that really hurts and the part that makes me think they would be better off without me.  Plus how many people on this earth struggle thru the first 30 years of their life and then magically become productive good human beings?

PS Thanks sammy,i dont feel judged at all,thats part of the beauty of online i think. If i do feel bad i can hit a button and it goes away. Too bad their isnt a button like that in life.


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus said:
			
		

> Plus how many people on this earth struggle thru the first 30 years of their life and then magically become productive good human beings?


You might be surprised to find out how many... many of them addicts or drug abusers, probably... some abused in various ways by life and families who end up in institutions of one kind or another... some who, perhaps like you, are just too depressed and angry to do anything except lash out and hate... what all of these people have in common is that one day something happens, or sometimes someone happens, and they say, simply, "I've had enough... no more... the next 30 years are not going to be like this". It isn't suddenly all milk-and-honey-in-the-promised-land after that, of course... it's more like one small step at a time, one hour at a time, then one day, one month, one year.. but that moment of epiphany or whatever it is changes that person's life.

I have seen many examples of this... some quite close to home.


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## Shaymus

You are right,in my head i am angry and do lash out and hate. But i do it inside my head and save the most vicious barbs for myself so i dont feel very guilty. 

Whats ironic about it all is i did have that i dont wanna live like this anymore epiphanies. I called(which is hard for me) many different psychologists and psychiatrists looking for help(sliding scale fees,and willing to see someone with no money is hard to find). I set up appointments. I took my drugs. I tried to do everything i was told.  It started about 3 months ago as at first i only saw a drug doctor and got my lexapro. So you would think my life has gotten better. You couldnt be further from the truth.  My life is spiraling into darkness so quick it even shocks me and im used to being me.  Believe me im sooo ready not to be a miserable failure and im trying but it seems like the more i struggle against this the more i sink in the quicksand of doom.  Its frustrating and seems very pointless most days. 

It is very nice to know that its not strange to feel too much instead of being numb. It worried me for some reason.


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## David Baxter PhD

Several things occur to me: 

First, when I asked, "Who is monitoring your medications?", I don't mean who is checking to see if you are taking them -- I mean who is checking to see if they are working. You may need a different medication or a diffrent dose -- if the former, there are a lot to choose from so if after three months you are still feeling the way you describe I would wonder about whether another SSRI might be more helpful.  

Second, as we have already discussed, it is possible that a different therapist might be helfpul, especially if you don't have faith in your current one. 

Third, it may be worth putting some effort in therapy into examining your anger and your guilt  rather than focusiing solely on depressive thoughts: Classically, depression was viewed as "anger turned inward" and I do think there is often some truth to that.


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## Shaymus

Ahhh well at first it was a nurse or something. She then started pushing me into day treatment and pushing for other stuff and refused to listen to me say no. I got angry and decided to see the psychiatrist at Catholic Charities and have switched to them for the drugs and the therapy. I still have to cancel the appointment i have with the nurse but im nervous about doing so and part of me wishes i had the guts to go in and tell her exactly why im leaving her. The day treatment might have been a good idea but im terribly social phobic and i asked around and people said thats a LOT of group therapy and stupid stuff like crafts. I dont want adult day care,thanks.  

Ill probably try to find another therapist. One question i have is it possible to continue with the one i have now and maybe see a different kind of therapist too? Or do i have to choose? I feel comfy with this one most days but i think i need something more often and a kind where i get to talk more. Id feel bad for dropping him tho as he is a nice guy and i like their drug doctor better even if she was pushy too. 

Thirdly that is probably right on target. Guilt and anger consume me. Its like the stereotype of men to think of sex every 5 seconds. I think of regret and stupid actions every five seconds.


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## David Baxter PhD

I think most therapists would have a difficult time with you seeing two therapists at once -- the likelihood of conflicting advice is high unless there is a high degree of coordination between the two and that's pretty difficult to arrange.


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## jacie

Shaymus, I hate to jump in the middle here and upset you, but someone close to me just attempted suicide the other day.  I see you were raised Catholic.  Do you think that suicide will make the pain go away, or are you thinking about it as a way to punish yourself?  Either way, it is an act of ultimate despair and rejection of God.  Maybe sometimes you think of it as a way to punish God?  Do you blame him for all the bad things in your life?  Just curious as to the thought process.  Please humour me with your thoughts on this.


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## Shaymus

I dont know if pain would be the right answer but i guess its close. Mostly when i get this way it is over something i cant deal with and feel helpless and frustrated and there are no easy answers. This ranges from my girlfriend getting pulled over when she didnt have a lisence and the fun issues with that to my sister having a tumor in her head to guilt for being a lazy bum and things such as this. Even such things as relieving my girlfriend of the burden that is me so she can find someone who isnt a piece of dirt.  I dont think of it as punishing God but i do get angry and pissed and wonder why if we praise him for miracles we dont blame him for negatives. But not all the bad things in my life,i can take credit for most of my crap after calming down except for things like the tumor or other random horrible things that no ones free will caused. Ive been awake too long so if i havent explained very well clarify for me as my brain is slow today.


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## Shaymus

*Life is a struggle*

Im sick of life creating chaos.  Im sick of struggling thru every little mishap or crushing defeat life has to offer. My main question lately is this: If my biggest problem is dealing with problems in life how can anything make it better? Problems come up in everyones life im assuming. For me i cant handle them anymore and dont want to.  Im sick of leeching off of good people.  What is harder on people do you think,,having someone you love disapear and not knowing,,or knowing someone you love killed themselves? I can see both as hurting but i think they would eventually be easier able to deal with option b but not really sure.  Im not on the verge of attempting but my mind is curious and i have too much time to think and this is something i need to figure out.


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus, with all that thinking you're doing, I would suggest you think hard and long about getting in to see your therapist or getting another one -- and about being very open and direct about all these thoughts you've been having. No therapist can help you if you don't let him or her know what's going on. I would also suggest that you see whoever you need to see about reviewing your medications.


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## Shaymus

Thats the strange thing. I did have therapy last monday and i did share finally some(the thoughts and the looking for ways on the internet,and a lil about abusing my meds) and felt like i made progress for the first time.  I felt the glow of that for a couple days and now my brain has gone back to normal. Lol he had me sign a sheet of paper saying i wouldnt try but seriously a signature is gonna stop someone? I think im losing my mind cause i know exactly how i was feeling when i wrote that and now in the same day im feeling high as can be. It keeps switching back and forth on me so its hard to figure out where i am half the time. 

Im not sure when i next see my drug doctor,,i think maybe this week sometime or the next week but ill be sure to tell her the lexapro isnt working very well. Or actually that it is only working half the time haha.


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## Shaymus

Oops they called to remind me i have my drug doc appointment tomorrow at 230.  Thankfully they always call to remind me the day before. I wish they would make it so my therapist was the one who prescribed me the drugs as having to rehash stuff with someone i barely know when i didnt really have the guts to say it to the guy i trusted is hard.  Yuck tho if 30mgs of lexapro isnt enough then in my head at least they are gonna wanna switch the med and that sounds like a pain.  Maybe they will just add something else tho,thats what ill hope for.


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## Shaymus

Argh! I told my drug doctor that the lexapro just wasnt working and what does she say? Well its only been a month of 30 mgs so we should give it more time. Come back in 2 months! 2 months!?! I seriously doubt i can make it thru a 2 month sentence feeling like i do now.  I think i have 60 1mg pills of ativan to play with but i just got it filled yesterday and ive tooken five already. 

Im also starting to wonder if id ever have the strength to finish myself off. I look up ways online,i think of special Shaymus ways and yet when the time comes and im holding what i want to use i chicken out. Maybe obsessing about suicide is just how my brain deals with feeling so low. Kind of like when your super poor and can do nothing you dream about winning powerball or some other lottery. How many poor people win the lottery tho? Not very many. So am i just teasing myself into thinking id ever have this much strength? The pain keeps on mounting and my will keeps shrinking yet i never have any courage to do whats best.


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus, have you been completely open with your "drug doctor" about the way you've been feeling and the thoughts you've been having?


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## Shaymus

Nope your right,i hardly tell my drug doctor anything. How can you get to know someone for 10-15 minutes once a month? I dont trust her any further than i could throw her. She might even be more educated than the psycholigist i have, being a psychiatrist but its all people skills and hers are awful. I feel like cattle in a slow moving line.


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## David Baxter PhD

Maybe so, but you are relying on the psychiatrist to prescribe appropriate medications for you and currently complaining that she isn't doing a good job... but then she doesn't have all the facts, so how can you expect her to know what medications would be best for you with only half the story to go on?


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## Shaymus

So im supposed to go into the long drawn out my lows are much lower than they used to be. That the thought of suicide floods my head most days and that even the slightest negative thing seems like a sign from above i should end it?  The meds arnt doing their job,ive jumbled the dosage a few times hoping i could find the right mgs and found out right quick why thats stupid. 

Im absolutely sick of this and if this is what i need to do i can build the strength somehow to do it by december haha(my next meeting with her).  Is there anything else i should add do you think?  At this point if you told me i had to tell her i was a pink giraffe id seriously consider it. I want to get better.


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## David Baxter PhD

If you told her you were having problems, I expect you could get an appointment before December. And yes, if you want to call that "the long drawn out", that's exactly what she needs to know to be able to recomment appropriate treatment.


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## Shaymus

Uggg got put in the hospital on a 72 hour hold on monday the 18th but got out early by a day. Im so angry i could spit venom at my family for forcing that on me. The good part of it is im now on a new med effexor. I mean it has to be good cause it effex me haha. Im so happy to be out of that place tho. Being treated like im 10 years old is very hard.  Ill be busy for the next couple days sending out hurtful emails to my family for doing this.


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## David Baxter PhD

While you're at it, send out a couple of thank you emails, Shaymus... maybe they saved your life...


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## Shaymus

Yeah sadly you're right.  I sent out one ugly email but after having a chat with my girlfriend and reading peoples opinions i called and had a nice phone call with my sister. I still think she was wrong but i know she did it out of fear and concern for me and the love she felt to risk our relationship for my safety is impressive to me.  Im still slightly annoyed at the whole situation but heck i just got out with time i think i can figure out the truth of things.


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## sammy

Shaymus... I'm quite encouraged as your thinking seems straighter... 



> and the love she felt to risk our relationship for my safety is impressive to me.



you're right... that is _true_ love....

all the best with the new med.


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## SpaceTime

*Re: Life is a struggle*



			
				Shaymus said:
			
		

> Im sick of life creating chaos.  Im sick of struggling thru every little mishap or crushing defeat life has to offer. My main question lately is this: If my biggest problem is dealing with problems in life how can anything make it better? Problems come up in everyones life im assuming. For me i cant handle them anymore and dont want to.  Im sick of leeching off of good people.  What is harder on people do you think,,having someone you love disapear and not knowing,,or knowing someone you love killed themselves? I can see both as hurting but i think they would eventually be easier able to deal with option b but not really sure.  Im not on the verge of attempting but my mind is curious and i have too much time to think and this is something i need to figure out.



Shaymus,

I'm suicuidal and depressed too. I used to go to a forum that did nothing but insult and harass me and it made me feel even MORE WORTHLESS. I know EXACTLY how you feel. I even made up a plan on how to do it, and people there (among other non self help forums) dared me to do it, even telling me HOW to. They said they didn't care and I was only saying it for attention, and I almost felt like doing it just to prove them wrong.

This totally changed me around when I visisted this forum. Of course, I still feel this way at times. But I realized that complete strangers , ON A FORUM, people I don't even know, CARE FOR US. That's something incredible .Just realize people do care for you, KEEP VISITING THIS FORUM, for advice and help. 

Hang on bro, we can do this together. 

If I can, you can


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## SpaceTime

Sometimes I get so emotional, when I hear songs like Third Eye Blind, Jumper (telling his friend not to jump and kill himself, and at the end he does), and good charolett (hold on) I get so emotional I cry. In front of my parents. I'm even a guy, at that.


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## David Baxter PhD

ST, listen to _Everybody Hurts_, by REM... that song pretty much says it all...



> When the day is long and the night,
> the night is yours alone,
> When you're sure you've had enough of this life,
> well hang on
> Don't let yourself go,
> 'cause everybody cries
> and everybody hurts sometimes
> 
> Sometimes everything is wrong.
> Now it's time to sing along
> 
> When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
> If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
> When you think you've had too much
> of this life, well hang on
> 
> 'Cause everybody hurts.
> Take comfort in your friends
> Everybody hurts.
> Don't throw your hand.
> Oh, no. Don't throw your hand
> If you feel like you're alone,
> no, no, no, you are not alone
> 
> If you're on your own in this life,
> the days and nights are long,
> When you think you've had too much
> of this life to hang on
> 
> Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
> Everybody cries.
> And everybody hurts sometimes
> And everybody hurts sometimes.
> So, hold on, hold on
> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
> Everybody hurts.
> You are not alone


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## SpaceTime

David Baxter said:
			
		

> ST, listen to _Everybody Hurts_, by REM... that song pretty much says it all...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the day is long and the night,
> the night is yours alone,
> When you're sure you've had enough of this life,
> well hang on
> Don't let yourself go,
> 'cause everybody cries
> and everybody hurts sometimes
> 
> Sometimes everything is wrong.
> Now it's time to sing along
> 
> When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
> If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
> When you think you've had too much
> of this life, well hang on
> 
> 'Cause everybody hurts.
> Take comfort in your friends
> Everybody hurts.
> Don't throw your hand.
> Oh, no. Don't throw your hand
> If you feel like you're alone,
> no, no, no, you are not alone
> 
> If you're on your own in this life,
> the days and nights are long,
> When you think you've had too much
> of this life to hang on
> 
> Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
> Everybody cries.
> And everybody hurts sometimes
> And everybody hurts sometimes.
> So, hold on, hold on
> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
> Everybody hurts.
> You are not alone
Click to expand...


Who's REM? I know i've heard that song before. Sounds incredibly similiar to Good Charolett's "Hold on" Chronics of life and death.

I asked my pastor if Good Charolett was a christian band and he said far from it..yet they make such inspiring songs? I don't get it.

Third Eye blind has a great song too called Jumper, made in '01 or so. I'l post it soon.

Listening to that song helps me so much. I've been trying to buy the CD; but its' not at walmart. Also I can't contact the radio station to play it 


Here it is:


I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies that you’ve been living in
And if you do not want to see me again I would understand
I would understand
The angry boy a bit too insane
Icing over a secret pain
You know you don’t belong
You’re the first to fight
You’re way too loud
You’re the flash of light on a burial shroud
I know something’s wrong
Well everyone I know has got a reason
To say put the past away
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies that you’ve been living in
And if you do not want to see me again I would understand
I would understand
Well he’s on the table and he’s gone to code
And I do not think anyone knows
What they’re doing here
And your friends have left you
You’ve been dismissed
I never thought it would come to this
And i, I want you to know
Everyone’s got to face down the demons
Maybe today
You could put the past away
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies that you’ve been living in
And if you do not want to see me again I would understand
I would understand
I would understand
I would understand
I would understand
I would understand
Understand
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Can you put the past away
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
I would understand
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
I would understand
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
And I would understand
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
I would understand
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
I would understand


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## David Baxter PhD

REM is a band from Georgia, I think... they have several CDs... that song is from _Automatic For The People_, I think, but their hit from that CD was _What's The Frequency Kenneth?_...


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## ^^Phoenix^^

Ok you two, this is gonna sound weird, I'm sure. 
How about not listening to suicidal music, at all?
Try some chill out music, such as french bands, 'Air's album 'Moon Safari'
Or how about some happy nonsense, such as Australian band's 'Regurgitator'. 
Both Highly recommended by moi! 
OR (and this is a little embarrasing, as I'm only the tender age of 23) try Paul Simon's 'GraceLand' Album.  There are some seriously LOVERLY classics on that one.
Both of Queens greatest hits have fabulous tracks, 'best friend' 'fat bottom girls'. They're marvolous!
Or something as simple as Eric Claptons Live album. 
There is so much rich beautiful music that gets your mind off the constant turn over in your mind, you really don't have any more time to listen to music that doesn't!

ttyl
Robs


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## SpaceTime

Or, "Don't worry, be happy!" song...

hehe..


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## Shaymus

*Re: Life is a struggle*



			
				SpaceTime said:
			
		

> Shaymus,
> 
> I'm suicuidal and depressed too. I used to go to a forum that did nothing but insult and harass me and it made me feel even MORE WORTHLESS. I know EXACTLY how you feel. I even made up a plan on how to do it, and people there (among other non self help forums) dared me to do it, even telling me HOW to. They said they didn't care and I was only saying it for attention, and I almost felt like doing it just to prove them wrong.
> 
> This totally changed me around when I visisted this forum. Of course, I still feel this way at times. But I realized that complete strangers , ON A FORUM, people I don't even know, CARE FOR US. That's something incredible .Just realize people do care for you, KEEP VISITING THIS FORUM, for advice and help.
> 
> Hang on bro, we can do this together.
> 
> If I can, you can



When im in one my bigger lows i try to remind myself i will come out of it and be ok. Its hard to remember when everything seems so overwhelming. 

Ill have to check out the music too. Ive listened to the REM song before David said but havent heard the ones you said. I used to own the REM CD when i was younger and would listen to that song quite a bit when i was down. 

The crying part i can totally relate too as well. Ive always been a pretty emotional person and being a guy it can feel wrong to cry quite a bit. Someone recently told me tho there are some who cant cry no matter how much pain they feel. That would be worse i would imagine as when i cry it definately helps me,,i guess kind of like sweating when its hot out or something. There is a release there happening. So no matter how emberassing it might be to cry in front of people youd rather not it is a good thing to be able to have a release for those sad feelings. 

I used to post at the players corner a lot as well and played GS IV quite a bit. I hardly spend any time there anymore as like you i noticed it made me feel worse quite a bit. It isnt easy to just stop doing something youve spent so much time on. For me i post here and at another mental health forum and i have an online journal i type to occupy my brain when needed.  Some people are just vultures and can sense weakness(at least for me my depression makes me feel very weak quite a bit) in people and instead of feeling empathy they look at them as prey.  No matter how cool they appear to be(i understand the need to be liked) they are still vultures and not someone either of us need in our lives right now.  The nice thing about sites like David Baxter's here is you can meet people who dont look at people like they are prey. You can make online friends who want to help you feel better. They dont always say what you want to hear but their advice is good advice not passive agressive or flat out agressive. 

I agree we both can get thru this ugly time in our lives. I think patience is the key. Baby steps might be very frustrating but at least we are going forward and not backwards.


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## David Baxter PhD

Very well put, Shaymus. And it's encouraging to see you thinking less pessimistically these past couple of days... )


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## jubjub

I've recently developed an interest in techno music - lively, rhythmic and for the most part no words at all!  I've collected some great ones, even remakes of songs from the 80s and classical. I've played a few of these CDs at work, and they all seem to like it too, although they wander over, get all spastic and say "Oh, disco!"..........oh well.........


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## David Baxter PhD

jubjub said:
			
		

> they wander over, get all spastic and say "Oh, disco!"...


LOL... sounds like my sons when I play folk-rock, country-rock, or anything that sounds to them like a "chick group"... ;o)


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## Shaymus

David Baxter said:
			
		

> And it's encouraging to see you thinking less pessimistically these past couple of days... )



Yeah i was noticing that too. I have my first therapy appointment today after being in the hospital. Thats sooooo scary as i know hes going to be disapointed in me.  I think i have it talked out in my brain enough to be not crazy tho. After all the worst possible thing that can happen is ill be shoved in the hospital again and i already know i can get thru that. Still tho i dont want that to happen


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## David Baxter PhD

I suspect your therapist is less likely to be disappointed in the fact that you were hospitalized and more likely to be pleased that you are makinf progress. Good luck!


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## Shaymus

*Free Falling*

Lately i seem to be plotting and planning or incredibly happy. No middle ground what so ever. Everyone loving me to everyone hating me.  Bouncing up and down constantly is very tiring.  Now im down and its hard to remember im just as likely to be up tomorrow as down.  Self destructive temptations around every corner whispering sweet promises. The feeling of jumping back and forth seems like a life sentence of unhappiness and stupid actions ill try to justify. Nothing really happened to put me into this blackness either. No car breaking or people getting arrested. No one betrayed me or pissed me off.  Fighting with my girlfriend about such small things. Getting upset as her daughters bicker at each other constantly. Staying up late for privacy and then when i get that just beating myself up. My memory seems to be getting shorter and shorter. Having trouble remembering even silly things i do everyday. Sleeping too much or too little. No drugs or alcohol to turn my brain quiet around.  I guess im not really asking a question, just venting.  Was gonna start a new topic then realized probably just easier to stretch this one longer. Better to have one huge one than 50 different ones and the sight of seeing every showing topic authored by me in here would be even more depressing so i hope thats ok.


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## David Baxter PhD

First, Shaymus, as we've discussed previously, I do hope you will make your therapist aware of what is happening with/to you. You might think about jorunaling, if you're not already doing so, and taking your notes into sessions with you, either to show your therapist or as a reminder when you are in the session. Take particular note not only of what is happening in your life today but what has been happening in recent days -- any  additonal stressors, etc.? If there are no external triggers, what about internal ones -- thoughts, memories, etc.? 

In most cases, sudden mood shifts are not really out of the blue, although they may feel like it at the time. On the other hand, if they really are in your case, that is also information your doctor and therapist needs since it might imply cyclothymia or a bipolar pattern.

As to your implied question about the length of threads, that's not an issue as far as I'm concerned. My general feeling is if it's a continuation of the same topic or issue, then it's probably better for continuity to add it to the previous thread -- for one thing, people who have been following the thread and who have asked for notification will then receive a notice that the thread has been updated. If it's a new issue or question, then certainly think about starting a new thread. Either way is fine.


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## Shaymus

Good advice as always, thank you.  I do journal quite a bit as it helps me let out some steam, its like my little safe spot to let out what i think about. Showing that to my therapist would be very tough but ill try to convince my head its the smart thing to do.  I see my therapist on the 10th and my drug doc on the 11th and ill try to let them into my insanity.  I guess there are some triggers that make me think of past memories and pain but the triggers are so sensitive they seem so silly for being so easily pushed.  One got brushed up against and flooded my head with memories.  Im way oversensitive to so many things its ridiculous.  Ill get to debating my brain about printing out some of my journal to bring in with me. Intellectually i know it would be smart but emotionally that seems like a very dangerous thing to let someone in that far.  Who knows maybe logic can beat out emotional stupidity for once.


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## David Baxter PhD

It's not stupidity, not even emotional stupidity, Shaymus... it's fear. And that's entirely understandable. And human.


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## Shaymus

*Blargh*

Welp back home from another 72 hour hold and yet more meds to take. The psychiatrist on staff wanted to have me comitted but i guess i smooth talked the social worker with different plans or it was all just to scare me to be willing to do other stuff. Either way i get to go to day treatment and random ua's have a case worker and all that mess.  The only bright spot is they declared me disabled from major depression, recurrent so i might be able to get money or something.  I dont even know whats all going on, but i figure i have a lil time before all this smacks down on me. Im just going to enjoy my freedom and smoke lots of ciggarettes haha.  Altho if i hear two suicide attempts in two months is serious one more time i might scream.


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## Ash

Keep up the work, Shaymus.  All that matters is that you are making sure that you will be safe.  If you're not safe in out-patient, you need to see about in-patient.

Let us know what happens!


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## Shaymus

Thats the thing Ash, i cant see about in patient any more for any reason. Since they had the commitment pre screening if i even go in there on my own to be safe i very well could be commited now.  Thats unacceptable to me, i live for freedom and even the chance of that makes it impossible. The plus side to that is i cant make anymore attempts as there is always a chance i would fail cause there is no sure fire method.  So im trapped on this planet and have to jump thru their hoops til i can convince them to leave me alone.  I wonder how long i have to go to the day treatment for? My sister or someone smart said they are usually like six weeks to a couple months. I can live with that i really hope its for 3days a week instead of the 5days a week tho as my social anxiety is bad enough when i get to just stay home. Forced socialization is a pain.  I must say im going a lil nuts cause they wont give me any meds for anxiety, and they wont let me smoke weed.


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## Daniel

Ideally, of course, "forced socialization" could help mitigate future social anxiety because of habituation, but I guess it could do nothing or even backfire.

Worse come to worse, I guess you could see it as a trial by fire: 
"That which does not kill me, makes me stronger." --Nietzsche

Also, if there is group therapy,  I guess you could see each daily visit as a way to help others.


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## Shaymus

"That which does not kill me, makes me stronger" Ive always thought that was wrong. I mean who is stronger the person who was born into a family with lots of money and very healthy communication skills and what not or the person who was born into the family where they were physically and sexually abused and emotionally tortured their whole lives.  I wasnt born into either of those two situations but i have my theory on who will have the better life.  Maybe he meant physically stronger and not emotionally cause if there was a fight id bet the farm on b winning. 

Luckily i have some time before the day treatment starts. Have my intake for it on the 20th. Ive been building up a Shaymus i can go there as and appear to make progress so eventually they let me stop it and they consider it a success. 

I dont understand how the forced socialization can help me. Ive been forced my whole life to be social and its always been a pain. I know i can do so and not have a heart attack and die right now. The point is i dont want to.  People in groups are jerks. Maybe not all of them but if the group is big enough there will always be one who has to take their pot shots or make passive agressive remarks(heck even i do this).  The problem with me is i very easily misinterpret things people say as passive agressive or even agressive so even in a utopia i will still hate humans.


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## Shaymus

Well i started my day treatment today. It was ugly but not nearly as bad as i made it out to be. I found out the guy i have to impress and im going to ask him tomorrow what exactly i need to do to be done with it, then im going to do just that. 

Life has become so simple it seems. I dont know why i made it so difficult.  Sure i get negative thoughts still but ive learned this silly trick of blaming the mental illness for it and not making it part of my identity. Its so much easier to let go of my anger and sadness when i do this.  It helps it not stick to me and i find i dont obsess so much about it when i do that. 

Anyway since life has gotten beautiful again i just wanted to put this whole topic to bed in my mind. I need to see an ending of it. So without further ado....

The End


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## David Baxter PhD

Shaymus said:
			
		

> ive learned this silly trick of blaming the mental illness for it and not making it part of my identity. Its so much easier to let go of my anger and sadness when i do this. It helps it not stick to me and i find i dont obsess so much about it when i do that.


That's actually a pretty effective trick.


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## haunting

Shaymus.... I have really been able to relate to what you have descibed here. Many of these thoughts and emotions. Not that its the same as we are all different. I really don't know how to put this but your original post--WOW--similar thoughts thats for sure. I do hope you find what you are seeking. And I wish you all the best.

I don't think by any means that you are abnormal in what you have described.

Haunting


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## ThatLady

How is your day treatment going, Shaymus? Do you feel you're making progress toward your goal? I'm curious to hear how things are with you. )


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## Shaymus

It was really cool how it turned out. Apparently the social worker guy in charge didnt like that i was *forced* to go and so he only made me go for two weeks. It left a really good taste in my mouth so now if i ever get convinced i need it, it wont be a problem.  

Other than that things have been mostly good. Hit rough patches here and there but so far they havent clung to me like the other ones did. The pit got filled in a lil somewhere along the line.  So when i drop it stinks but the hole isnt as intimidating and helpless as it once was.  Ive dropped down to therapy twice a month again instead of weekly visits. In fact im in my first non weekly visit right now. I see him on tuesday. It was a harder than seeing him so often but i think its a good thing as long as i have the guts to ask for weekly again if it gets really bad. 

As for progress i never know if im making any or not. Being around people is still a struggle and sometimes i get incredibly irritated at the smallest of things.  Im paranoid about february because i was in the hospital in oct, not in nov, back in dec, not in jan. The pattern seems obvious but jan was a lot better than sept or nov was so im trying to optimistic


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## Shaymus

Just a quick question i have. I saw my therapist and he asked if i had any suicidal thoughts since i saw him last. I said i did have a few and told him one of the quick plans my head came up with. He now wants me to bring in the method item with me next time. This angers me so much i could spit lightning.  I mean if i want to die him eliminating one choice out of a million options isnt going to stop me. He was very pushy and i didnt like it one bit. What is the point of him doing such a thing? Is it just what you all are taught to do? Does he understand the only person in control of whether i live or die is me? Him trying to take control just makes him into my dad and me hate him.  Also it seems like the last 3 times ive gone he has been digging a lot harder than he was the months before. Is this him getting frustrated with me?


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## Daniel

> He now wants me to bring in the method item with me next time.



Though I have never had a therapist do this, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me per se.   I would think there is theraputic value in this, such as making the whole situation less abstract ("making the darkness visible").

Regarding being pushy, if the therapist is not pushy about non-suicide issues, I think it's more understandable.  After all, at a certain point, therapists do have to be somewhat pushy or paternalistic about suicide by reporting when someone is "a danger to themselves or others."  

BTW, I would think that therpists who have experienced the death of a patient by suicide would be more emotional about the issue than they would be otherwise.



> I mean if i want to die him eliminating one choice out of a million options isnt going to stop me.


Yes, but because of the impulsive nature of suicide, making a certain suicide method more inconvenient could be helpful.  



> Him trying to take control just makes him into my dad and me hate him.


Since you can always change therapists, you are ultimately in control, of course, and it's always your decision to comply or not to comply with his recommendations.  

If I have a point, it is this:  Where is the harm in giving this suicide item to your therapist?


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## Shaymus

I guess it just bugs me that he is taking away the item i feel most comfortable with and have the most confidence in it working.  You are correct he is never pushy, which could also be part of the shock of seeing him so.  Him digging around in my past the last two sessions and it annoying me and then this happening. I guess it just pissed me off.  In my mind he was the perfect t for me cause he never pushed and let me tell him things without consequence. Then suddenly consequences are staring me in the face.  If i look back i always react poorly to negative consequences for my actions.  Oh well


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## David Baxter PhD

If your therapist aimed at always being your buddy and never pushing you at all to look at unpleasant things or to question how you react to things, he wouldn't be much good to you as a therapist, would he?

That's precisely why we go to a therapist -- otherwise, we'd just talk to a friend.


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