# Parents that don't dress kids properly for weather!



## Scottish Joan (Jun 23, 2015)

I have 2 children, Caitlyn and Nicole who are both 8 and when weather requires, I am ALWAYS asking them to bundle up because they are really bad for coming out of School with hats in bags and jackets either in their bags or wide open and flapping.

We are living in Scotland just now (have been ever since girls started School 3yrs ago) where the weather is very unpleasant, its been raining heavily for a while now plus mornings can be cold but when I am walking girls to School, I am seeing lots of children (some younger than my 2) with no jackets yet the parents are bundled up.

My girls don't like the cold weather so need to be bundled up (jacket on and zipped and hat on) but will not zip their jackets which means that I have to do it for them but they always wriggle and fidget about but I still get the jackets zipped up and then explain to the girls why they need jackets zipped up.

I don't like the girls jackets open anyway because the jackets have zips for a reason so anytime the jackets are on, they get zipped.

Do you agree with that and also, are your children good at bundling up of fastening their jackets when required or are they like my girls and need asked when to zip their jackets?


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## Retired (Jun 23, 2015)

Hello Joan and welcome to Psychlinks!  What an interesting question, especially because in Canada, we are subject to frigid temperatures as well.

I do not have parenting experience, but I often wonder if kids are influenced by peer pressure when they leave clothing unbuttoned, unzipped, untied or otherwise inappropriate for current conditions, to appear to be "cool" to their friends.

On the other hand, considering your question, do each of us has our own internal tolerance to temperature,  and what may feel cold or warm to one may not feel that way to another?


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## Scottish Joan (Jun 23, 2015)

My girls leave theirs open just because they are in a rush to get out of School but I can see that they are shivering.

When I am at the School gate all I hear the parents say is either "where is your jacket" or "please fasten up your jackets" or with the little ones, I am seeing the parents fastening the jacket for the little one.

I am always saying to Caitlyn and Nicole's friends "I take it you were in a hurry to see the girls, I think it'd be a good idea if you fastened up the zips on your jackets as its cold this morning", the parents are delighted that I say this because it shows that I am worried about their childs health.


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## PrincessX (Jun 23, 2015)

My kids are almost the same, and so are most of their friends.

Could be a variety of different reasons for this behaviour. The most common I think of is that we parents might be over dressing them at times. Children are more physically active than adults, so they get warm faster. 
Another reason is that young children may have poor judgement, they are not afraid of cold weather and they need frequent reminders. Despite this, it is unlikely they will freeze. I think when they are really cold, they would put on their jackets and hats and so on.
A third reason is, just a desire to be independent, to do things their own way.
What works with my kids is letting them choose all hats, scarves, mittens and jackets. It they get a hat of their favourite sports team or movie character, it is much more likely they will wear it often. Also, frequent reminders. Maybe, ask the teacher to remind them to put on their hats and coats.
Peer pressure could also play a role, especially in older children.
I was doing the same thing when I was a child, unzipping jackets, taking off hats and so on. In preteen and teen years, it was, because I decided that I wanted to develop my own fashion style, and it was important to have most jackets unzipped. I thought this looked better than being bundled up. :lol: I also hated hats, because they would "ruin my hair style". These are some memories from like 11 yrs and above. Until then, all I remember was, that I was always hot and sweating in the winter.


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## Scottish Joan (Jun 23, 2015)

First of all, I wouldn't say that I am only dressing the girls, all I put on them is trousers (not skirts), school t-shirt and jumper but at end of school the jumper usually is in the girls bags as they got them dirty.

Next, my girls definitely have poor judgement so need frequent reminders.

Both girls have hats of frozen the movie and adore them as they love Frozen, they watch it once a week and sing a long to it .

Finally, I have asked teachers to remind the girls to put on jackets but teacher will not ask them to fasten them up.


It is the jacket issued by the School which is a red regatta waterproof which has school logo on it, both girls use them as their daily use jackets too ad they are so fond of the jackets.

PrincessX and Steve, do you agree with me that jackets have zips for a reason and my belief that they need to be fastened anytime girls put on jackets in order to stop the jacket from flapping wide open?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jun 23, 2015)

Scottish Joan said:


> do you agree with me that jackets have zips for a reason and my belief that they need to be fastened anytime girls put on jackets in order to stop the jacket from flapping wide open?



No I would disagree with that. I put a jacket on when it's cool. I don't zip it up unless it's colder than expected or raining or windy - it's a way of maintaining the most comfortable body temperature according to the weather conditions.


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## forgetmenot (Jun 23, 2015)

I think a child of 8 is able to judge when they are hot or too cold so let them have the choice if they need their coat zipped up or not    Give them that responsibility it will help them i think more then having you do it for them all the time
  If they are cold like stated they will zip up the jacket.    There is a feeling of more freedom when a zipper is left open  one can move more freely not feel so confined


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## Scottish Joan (Jun 23, 2015)

First of all, David Baxter, its kids we are talking about here, they feel cold more than adults so what you think is warm, my girls will maybe think is cold, they feel cold more than other kids their age anyway, hence why I always get the girls to zip their jackets up.

Next, forgetmenot, you say "if they are cold like stated, they will zip up the jacket". That isn't true with Caitlyn and Nicole, they are bad for leaving their jackets wide open but are then shivering due to being frozen but still need to be asked to zip up their jackets.

Anyway, School will not let children go outside on rainy or windy days until jackets are zipped  because the teachers don't like kids coming into classroom soaking, complaining of being cold or kids coming into class with uniforms soaking or dirty.


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## forgetmenot (Jun 24, 2015)

You say the teachers won't ask girls to do up their coats  yet then you say they are not allowed outside until the jackets are zippered    the thing is kids will be kids they will and we will not always be there to remind them.
The teachers will remind them and will get them to do up their own coats  encouraging them to be independent  in their care
It is hard for a parent i get that  i do but a child will either learn to cope with cold or do up their coat to stay warm   
I never froze and as a child and there was no one there to remind me to do such things 
 Guide them yes  remind them yes but let them have the choice 
  It is giving them these choices that actually teaches them to take care of themselves.  They learn cause and affect


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## Scottish Joan (Jun 24, 2015)

The teachers will ask the girls to zip their jackets in school hours (so for playtimes and lunchtimes) but at end of day, they leave it up to parents to decide if the kids need to do up jackets, which all parents decide to do, as I said, when I am picking girls up after school, nearly every parent is asking their child to do up their jackets.

---------- Post Merged at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:23 PM ----------

Surely I am not wrong to want my girls to bundle up from cold though?


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## Retired (Jun 24, 2015)

Scottish Joan said:
			
		

> Surely I am not wrong to want my girls to bundle up from cold though?



Joan,

There is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting the best for your daughters, however, can you see that perhaps, through your intense desire for their welfare, you may be inadvertently exercising unreasonable control over various aspects of their lives?

As I mentioned elsewhere, I do not have first hand parenting experience, so my comments are based solely on having read your recent discussions, from an adult's perspective.

Could you help us understand what the consequences might be if you allowed your daughters to make many of the choices on their own with regard to the concerns you have expressed in this and your other discussion about their bedtime?

Have you noticed that they really need to have a strict schedule for task completion or can they get things done on their own?

For example, do you think these young women would recognize if and when they felt too cold for an open jacket that they would, on their own, zip them up?

With regard to bedtime, and scheduling, do you think it would work for your daughters if you gave them the broad strokes of the "house rules", say, getting their agreement that 8:30 is bedtime and lights out and agreement on the tasks that need to be completed by that time, and letting them plan how and when they will complete the tasks.

Same thing for the morning..have to be out the door at 8:45 and get agreement on how long it takes to get ready, and let them arrange their scheduling for preparations.

By doing it this way, I think they will learn important life lessons about organizing their lives in order to meet specified goals and deadlines.

They may have difficulty at first, but these are learned skills that are important in later life, such as in their higher learning years and into their workplace routines.

These helpful resources may offer additional suggestions:

12 Ways to Develop Your Childs Organizational Skills | Parents | Scholastic.com

Help Your Child Get Organized


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## Scottish Joan (Jun 24, 2015)

Tbh, both girls are quite good in morning and don't really need a routine, what I posted in my other discussion was a draft of what I would like the routine to be. 

It does take time for the girls to fully waken which is fine but main thing about routine is, its a must that they leave house no later than 0845 as it takes them 5-10mins to get to school.

Steve, you say "do you think these young women would recognise if and when they felt too cold for an open jacket that they would, on their own, zip them up?" 

Answer to that is no because girls could be shivering yet still not know that they are cold.

Let me tell you a story which may explain why I am always making sure the girls are bundled up.

About a month or two ago, both Caitlyn and Nicole went on a camping weekend with Brownies and weather all weekend was bitterly cold and wet at times.
One very bitterly cold and very rainy day (Heavy rain), the brownies went on a walk so had to wrap up warm so both girls had a t-shirt and jumper on but were still cold so put on their waterproof jackets and put up the hoods but were still cold, Caitlyn did zip her jacket right up to the top but Nicole didn't because her hands were that frozen that she couldn't feel them and she was to shy to ask anyone, including her own sister.
When brownies got back to camp, Caitlyn saw that Nicole was crying so went over to her and said "whats wrong?", Nicole said "I am freezing Caitlyn", Caitlyn hugged her and said to her "you silly girl, you should have zipped your jacket then", Nicoles teary response was "I couldn't because my hands were frozen (the girls don't wear gloves)", so Caitlyn said "you should have told me then because I could have zipped it for you, I am your sister so will always look after you".

So, now you can see/understand why I am always making sure the girls are bundled up when necessary.


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## Scottish Joan (Jul 1, 2015)

These past 2 days have been very, very warm so Caitlyn and Nicole have been outside playing.

Anyway, on Monday, I went to collect girls from School (on a rainy day) and as per usual, both girls came out with just t-shirts so, as I normally do, I got both girls' jackets out of their bags and put them on girls and, because I didn't  want a battle on my hands, I zipped up the jackets but that wasn't easy because both girls were wriggling and fidgeting about but I got the jackets zipped then firmly told girls "when its raining you MUST have AND zip up these jackets"


A parent then came up and said to me "come on lady, you are so fixated with your girls and zipping their jackets, you are not letting them learn the hard way", I snapped and shouted to the parent  "Hey, my children so my decisions on how to parent so I'd appreciate if you'd stop interfering in my parenting!" For what its worth, my girls suffer from cold/wet weather so my FIXATION on zipping their jackets actually protects their health!!".


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## GDPR (Jul 1, 2015)

If it's been very,very warm then why must they wear jackets AND have them zipped?The rain would probably feel pretty good.


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 1, 2015)

LIT said:


> If it's been very,very warm then why must they wear jackets AND have them zipped?The rain would probably feel pretty good.



I agree.


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## Scottish Joan (Jul 1, 2015)

I said its been very warm these PAST TWO DAYS, Monday was three days ago!


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 1, 2015)

It's still Wednesday here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Scottish Joan (Jul 1, 2015)

LIT said:


> If it's been very,very warm then why must they wear jackets AND have them zipped?The rain would probably feel pretty good.



As I said, its to protect their health and as for zipping them up, that is because I prefer the jackets zipped, the jackets have zips for a reason.


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## GDPR (Jul 1, 2015)

What about their mental health?Is all the fuss over keeping their jackets on and zipped worth it?I guess I could understand if they were toddlers but they're 8 years old.I am sure they are quite embarrassed over it if it is bringing so much attention to them that another parent has tried to speak up in their defense.

Do they also have to button their shirts all the way up or have to keep things in every pocket?Aren't buttons and pockets there for a reason too then?


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## PrincessX (Jul 2, 2015)

Hello Joan, 
Do you have someone you trust, whom you can discuss your parenting approaches with, just to make sure you are acting in the best interest of your children and not letting personal challenges in the way of parenting? Would that be a counsellor/therapist, relative, or their father?
As a parent, I think you need help.


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## Scottish Joan (Jul 3, 2015)

PrincessX said:


> Hello Joan,
> Do you have someone you trust, whom you can discuss your parenting approaches with, just to make sure you are acting in the best interest of your children and not letting personal challenges in the way of parenting? Would that be a counsellor/therapist, relative, or their father?
> As a parent, I think you need help.



I don't understand what you are saying but one thing is certain, I DO NOT need help!!

Next, the father is with me regarding zipping the jackets and doesn't believe that its affecting their "mental health".

I really can't get what all the fuss is about, both girls keep their jackets zipped once its zipped by me or daddy.

All this fuss over zipping a damn jacket, its not exactly hard to do themselves but instead its us that do it for them but they end up wriggling about and fidgeting about which baffles us, why fidget about just because a jacket is getting zipped up!!?


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## David Baxter PhD (Jul 3, 2015)

I think this thread has run its course. We are going around in circles.

Scottish Joan, you've had several comments from other members. It's clear that most do not see this issue your way but it's also clear that you have a fixed opinion that you are not interested in questioning.


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## Retired (Jul 3, 2015)

Scottish Joan said:
			
		

> I don't understand what you are saying but one thing is certain, I DO NOT need help!!



Joan,

It is unfortunate that this discussion appears to be upsetting, and hopefully you might want to maintain an open mind to the feedback being provided with the best of intentions.



> All this fuss over zipping a damn jacket



Interestingly, some of us who are following this discussion, wonder the same thing, but perhaps from a different perspective.  

It almost seems that you are asking for validation _from us_ to something to which you may have already received opposition to elsewhere.

Joan, it is obvious you have the best interests of your girls at heart, but consider that your best intentions may have become overzealous, to the detriment of the development of your daughters.

Have a look at these articles to see if anything there sounds familiar:

10 Signs You Are Micromanaging Your Kids

Are You an Overly Involved Parent? | Education.com

If what you are currently doing does not seem to be working, consider modifying your approach to try something else that might work better.

Modifying your approach is not a sign of weakness, but rather a sign of strength.


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## Scottish Joan (Jul 7, 2015)

Both Caitlyn and Nicole are now in bed with runny noses and colds (have been ever since 8pm) due to not being properly dressed for this poor weather (we had heavy rain, low temperatures and a bit of wind) so now I DO feel like I am the  bad parent :-( :-(.


Daddy let girls play on their bikes for a while despite rain as long as they were properly dressed for the weather but as soon as they got out, their jackets were off which meant that girls were then outside in pouring rain with only t-shirts on.

As soon as girls got back in, we noticed that they were soaking wet so daddy gave them a row for putting off their jackets then grounded them for a week.

So 2 lessons learnt by girls today.


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## Retired (Jul 8, 2015)

Two things come to mind for me, and I may be wrong on both counts.

Could it be your daughters removed their jackets in defiance of constantly being fussed over with regard to being zipped up?

Granted their colds are likely the result of getting wet and cold, but kids are constantly exposed to viruses.  When someone is exposed to a virus, and their core body temperature drops, the virus is given the opportunity to thrive.  The fact that they got cold and wet did not cause their cold, but likely provided the environment for the cold to develop.

I would submit, however, that it sounds like your daughters are reacting to your unrelenting focus on their jackets and zippers.

Based on your earlier comments, you appear to resist any suggestion that you may need to modify your own approach in dealing with your daughters.

Until you soften that point of view, it seems unlikely this impasse with your daughters can be resolved.  I can see your daughters digging in their heels even more as they get older, in acts of defiance, though.

Did any of the points listed in the two articles I suggested in my earlier post sound familiar at all?


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## forgetmenot (Jul 8, 2015)

Cold are not developed from not zipping up a jacket  Colds are viruses  so they were in contact with someone that had a cold who either coughed on them or they shook thier hand and had a sore and virus got in that way    Doing up a coat does not prevent someone from getting a cold  
even if they kept their jackets zipped up all time the cold would have developed if someone sneezed on them  just so you know ok


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## PrincessX (Jul 8, 2015)

This is an incredibly interesting topic! mg:


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## MHealthJo (Jul 8, 2015)

It's possible that they may feel more of a 'reward' in doing something that stands up or rebels against a very controlling, regimented environment, than any 'learning' or change that they might possibly feel from the negative consequences. They may feel more of a need to fight against the controllingness of their environment, no matter if the consequences of doing so are unpleasant.

Keep in mind that for them to have a happy and successful future and to feel  interested in their parents later on, their childhood needs to have plenty of feeling listened to and plenty of the feeling that what they prefer and how they feel is important, and for it not to be overly regimented or extremely rule-bound in too many highly detailed aspects of life.I assume that your goal is for them to have a happy and successful future. 

Colds will happen no matter what they are wearing, and we live in an age where antibiotics can deal with the unlikely factors of complications and prevent death. But stress-related problems and lack of validation from childhood are issues that are very complex and difficult to treat, and can have lifelong consequences such as mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse, other addictions or severe escapism behaviours, teenage pregnancy and motherhood, unemployment, risk-taking behaviour, aggression, crime,  severe relationship problems, homelessness, and suicide.


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## rdw (Jul 8, 2015)

I work in a high school setting and we often talk about logical consequences with students.  Ie no jacket - cold and wet is the consequence. This is a life lesson not just a lesson in the immediate. The children catching a cold due to playing outside without jackets does not make you a bad parent - it is the logical consequence of their choice .


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## PrincessX (Jul 9, 2015)

Actually the articles Steve recommended are a useful read and easy to understand/ implement.
I especially liked the recommendation for parents to stay out of their kid's room, in order to provide respect and privacy.
This lifts a lot of work off my shoulders,  
On a funny note:
There should be an exemption of this rule, in case parental lack of supervision invades animal rights and leads to worsening health of mice, cockroaches and other animals, who would find a shelter there. All living organisms need some basic living conditions in their environment after all.


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