# What should I do?



## Adui (Sep 9, 2004)

Greetings,

I am 35 yo male who is normally (well used to be) outgoing happy and generally patient and caring..

I have all my life suffered bouts of depression that always went away in a few day's, I dealt with it.

Lately, the past couple of months that is, i have been increasingly irritable, I hardly sleep, and when I do it isn't very restful.. my patience with my children (not always high anyhow) has gone to near nil, and I cant even enjoy the hobbies I used to love..

I have in addition begun to be prone to violent outbursts, and while I have only displayed this twice in front of my children, and I have never hurt anyone, I am sincerely scared for my well being and the safety of my family.

I do not understand what is happening to me.. I am severely underemployed, working only 2 days a week, and my oldest child is emotionally challenged. Theres a lot of other stressors involved, so I know I am probably suffering a severe case of stress mismanagement, however I feel i have come to an empass and must seek out some solution to this before i become a real threat to my family.. In the past, my bouts of more severe depression were before I had a wife and kids, so i just rode it out. Now I am beggining to see I may not have that option.

I could ramble on for a long time, but I think you get the point.. My plan is to call the help-lines in the next day or so, but I thought I would post here first.. just to see if there are still some tools available to me that might help without having to go to a DR or counselor..

I am prepared to do that, so tell me like it is.. 

Thanks, 
a scared, but loving Father


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## jubjub (Sep 9, 2004)

Welcome to this forum, Adui. It takes a lot of fortitude to actually write your thoughts down in a forum of this nature, doesn't it? That's how I found this place.

I read your post, and it sounds like the reason why your depression is so overwhelming at this particular time is that you have far more than just yourself to worry about now.  You say you "don't understand what is happening to you" and then go on to describe exactly what IS happening to you. There are so many negative situations going on in your life all at once, and I think most people would be severely depressed in your present situation. You also see how this is affecting your relationship with the other members of your family, which is very perceptive of you.  You have a very good handle on what is wrong with you and the reasons you are depressed.

It is so hard to face every day when you have problems that you see no way out of. I have been there many times myself. I've been thinking for about half an hour now of some positive suggestions I could make and I sort of came up empty.  But I wanted you to know that I have read this and I am thinking of your situation and by tomorrow I will see if I can think of something helpful to offer in the way of good advice.   I also suspect the doctor will be along shortly to read your plight and offer some concrete, helpful opinions and have some positive suggestions for you.

Hang in there.....we're here for you!


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 9, 2004)

Adui:

I was just on my way out the door when jubjub brought your post to my attention.

The history you describe suggests to me someone who has been vulnerable to depression foor some time and perhaps suffering from what is known as dysthymia -- basically a low level depression which you can at times overcome in various ways, like perhaps keeping busy or putting other people's interests and needs before your own.

What you are describing in terms of your recent symptoms and experiences sounds very much like a major depressive episode -- including the irritability and anger.

I will check back here in a few hours when I return but my very strong advice to you is do not wait to make that appointment with your family doctor. S/he may feel comfortable prescribing some medication for you even before you arrange an appointment with a therapist, if not antidepressants then perhaps at least something to help you sleep. And if antidepressants are prescribed, the sooner you start them the better, since they can take up to a few weeks to have noticeable benefits (it may be sooner too - it is quite individualistic).

See if you can call tonight -- there is nothing to be gained by putting it off making that appointment and I can promise you that there is much to be gained by making it. You do not have to continue to feel the way you are feeling tonight.


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## Adui (Sep 9, 2004)

Hello again,

I have to say I am not surprised that you told me to call the doc right away, I have been avoiding that option like the plague ever since my first explosion over a week ago prompted me to talk to some friends so to speak on a message forum I frequent. They almost all told me the same thing, but none of them are medical professionals, (Well one is kind of, her husband is a therapist and he read my post and responded in her name.).. 

Well, I haven't called the doctor yet.. I will but I have to figure out how, since I have no insurance and therefore I cant go to the family DR clinic we normally use, (Owe them too much from my kids.. )

I have recently become aware of a clinic nearby that is specifically for low income families like mine, so I will probably call them tomorrow when they are again open and see what they can do for me and my situation. As I said in my previous post I have the # for my county health department to, if this clinic cant get me going the right way i will be calling that number.


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 10, 2004)

Are you in the US, Adui? If so, this won't help you with seeing a doctor for medications, but another alternative for later finding a therapist might be to look for a university with a Masters or Ph.D. psychology program -- they often have psychotherapy clinics at little or no cost that are open to the public. The therapists are upper year graduate students (kind of like medical residents) who as part of their training need to work with psychotherapy clients under the supervision of their professors. You might look into this in your area.

I know that right now cost is one more stressor in your life but honestly this is something you can't NOT afford -- not only for youself but for your family.


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 10, 2004)

By the way, that "quote" in your signature line is an important one to remember right now:



> If you never give up you will never lose the battle!!


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## Adui (Sep 10, 2004)

DR Baxter,

I know that quote is important, I coined it many years ago during one of my more severe bouts of depression while in the navy, that and my buddies were what kept me going..

As for the Idea.. Yup I am in the states, and I will find the resources, I know I need to so i will..


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## Adui (Sep 10, 2004)

oh, By the way, THANK YOU for this site and your advice, if nothing else this is an avenue for me to vent my feelings and that in itself helps.. (I hope)


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## Kanadiana (Sep 10, 2004)

*Adui ... NAVY!???*

I may be off the mark here but here but ad these ideas and impressions when I read your post:

Your life does show a lot of major stressors and the financial/work moneystress must be hell. Thats a lot on your plate all round. Running out of coping steam seems  inevitable with chronic issues like that BUT ....

The word NAVY jumped out at me ... are you not entitled to help through the Veterans affiars? I know its  a "process" to apply and recieve but my understanding is that if your health issues can be directly linked to your service somehow, you should be entitled to medical benefits  and  coverage etc.

Your moods and depressions and reactions sound much like what many other  miltary and vet types describe...and they've been diagnosed, or will be, with PTSD (post traumatic  stress disorder ... or operational stress injuries)

Are you interested in talking to your "military peers" ?They might be able to help you with information and resources to turn to. I know of a couple of good Miltary sites with great PTSD info and support.

Just let me know if you want the links okay  
Meanwhile perservere and  know that there is help out there and pay attention and try to notice when you're beginning to get agitated and contact someone, even online to unload, just  for a little valve release. It works when you talk with people who "get it" and sometimes just unloading with understanding peers help to regain perspective and  self control.

Instead of exploding, pick up a phone or get online and "talk"... leave and go somewhere else if you can/must to break the escalation. Please don't sit and let it build   Drive On.

By the way... I'm blown away by the wonderful tight bonds with people in the military... and the understanding, help and support they give their peers when going through tough times. 

Miltarty life is unique. I'm only learning, as a civi.


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## Kanadiana (Sep 10, 2004)

PS: anything you can do immediately to relieve your stress
is good ... try to get something to help you to SLEEP =vital importance.
Coffee and cigarettes (if you partake) increase anxiety feelings
cut down your intake or stop gradually if you can.
SUGAR/sweetstuff ... stimulates your nervous system too.

I know the more I smoke, the more I agitate ... I get tense and
have "anxious agitation inmywhole system" ...

This stuff can all add up to an over stressed system and
calming down the body can do much to calm down the mind,
and visa versa.

I  hope that something I've  said ends up being a little
helpful to you Adui. I think I understand  that its love that
maks you take action ... not courage. You love and want to
protect your kids ... and you are, and will continue to do so.
I recognize this. I relinquished my first daughter  at age 2
to keep her well and safe... thank god you don't have to do
anything so drastic hey 

:salute:


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Adui ... NAVY!???*



			
				Kanadiana said:
			
		

> The word NAVY jumped out at me ... are you not entitled to help through the Veterans affiars? I know its  a "process" to apply and recieve but my understanding is that if your health issues can be directly linked to your service somehow, you should be entitled to medical benefits  and  coverage


Wow! Good eyes again there Kanadiana - I think I must need more sleep myself!

I was under the impression that you are entitled to Veteran's benefits even if it's not linked to your service, just by virtue of being in the forces. This is definitely worth investigating!



> Your moods and depressions and reactions sound much like what many other  miltary and vet types describe...and they've been diagnosed, or will be, with PTSD (post traumatic  stress disorder ... or operational stress injuries)


This is possible too, in case the "illness" does have to be linked to service -- depression is certainly a component of PTSD although there are other criteria that would need to be met as well.



> Meanwhile perservere and  know that there is help out there and pay attention and try to notice when you're beginning to get agitated and contact someone, even online to unload, just  for a little valve release. It works when you talk with people who "get it" and sometimes just unloading with understanding peers help to regain perspective and  self control.


More excellent advice -- if this keeps up I may need to just turn this forum over to Kanadiana!  ;o)


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## Kanadiana (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Adui ... NAVY!???*



			
				David Baxter said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that you are entitled to Veteran's benefits even if it's not linked to your service, just by virtue of being in the forces. This is definitely worth investigating!
> This is possible too, in case the "illness" does have to be linked to service -- depression is certainly a component of PTSD although there are other criteria that would need to be met as well.



I think so too ... Adui, it would help you greatly with VA dealings/paper work if you have it on your service records that depression WAS an issue while you served.
Many people with trauma prior to service will have PTSD depressions and symptoms triggered due  to experiences while serving ... THEREFORE is really IS service related. Having people to back up your severe depression while serving would likely go a long way to entitle you "service related" health issues, or some such, therefore entitled to coverage somehow.  

If you haven't tried this avenue before (VA) then like David  says, it really  IS worth investigating. You might even be eligible for financial benefits????? 

I would highly suggest  finding out everything you need to know FIRST from others who have gone thru the process so you do all the  steps right when you  approach the VA, if you do. Missed steps or not enuf info will cause delays tc.

All that is good for LONGTERM  and  ONGOING help and relief...but I realize that you need IMMEDIATE relief in coping with the sleep and moods/reactions. Then first. Stabilize that stuff. Sounds like money is  an huge issue for you and your family .... are you entitled to income assistance and presription help via them?

A good supportive family doc will go a long way to helping you with these people too ...money? Ouch ... how about WALK-IN FREE CLINICS ... any family/friends who would help out with loans or givens to pay for you?



> More excellent advice -- if this keeps up I may need to just turn this forum over to Kanadiana!  ;o)



David, I think you'll  change that attitude when you  see my cheeky post about semi-conscious unpretty old-timers 

(thanks)


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## Adui (Sep 10, 2004)

Wow, I handnt thought about the service and the VA.. I enjoyed MOST of my time in the Navy, but I did have to see a counselor once, and ultimately my early discharge, while Honorable and essentially timed with the force reductions after the Gulf war was related to emotional issues.. I think I need to kick a letter off to the local VA rep, and get the ball rolling.


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## Adui (Sep 10, 2004)

As for sleep, well i am trying. I have a friend who has some herbal sleep remedies, She asked me yesterday if I would use them if she gave me some.. I of course said yes so next time we see each other, (Next day or two) she will ahve it for me..


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## Kanadiana (Sep 11, 2004)

Adui said:
			
		

> Wow, I handnt thought about the service and the VA.. I enjoyed MOST of my time in the Navy, but I did have to see a counselor once, and ultimately my early discharge, while Honorable and essentially timed with the force reductions after the Gulf war was related to emotional issues.. I think I need to kick a letter off to the local VA rep, and get the ball rolling.



Then I'm sure glad I mentioned it ...big smile  and things sound even better/likely to get benefits since your service records will have that important documentaion to back you up. Cool!

I also wonder, so many military types when they return to "Civi Life"  really miss their buddies and the whole miltary scene. No civi can ever really "get" the deep bonds and bonding, and sense of security and understanding of military  experience and comraderie. They walkedthe same walk,and returning to civi life can really cause a lot of "missing and loneliness" for the  life and  the people. I hope you've stayed connected with someof your buds 

Military life isn't a job for most ... its a life style that most civi's can't really comprehend or fill those "lost aspects" ... I come to learn this thru talking with mil. types and understand those bonds more 

You've been on my mind, and so, because of your current  situations, is my story with my first daughter.

Yeah SLEEP ... whatever works!!!!!!!!!! along with trying to get rid of as much stuff that overstimulates the mind and body as you can ... I guess you had it right when you mentioned "a case of stress mismanagemnt' The good newsis is that its all fixablehey 

Me, the yappy one, will sign off for now, but will monitor this thread. By now, I sorta care a lot on how things are going for you...take care huh


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 11, 2004)

I don't recall if you've already answered this question, Kanadiana... but were you in the military at some point?


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## Kanadiana (Sep 11, 2004)

David Baxter said:
			
		

> I don't recall if you've already answered this question, Kanadiana... but were you in the military at some point?



Hi David ... nope. Never. I started connecting and talking with military  types about a yr and a half ago, conversations aboutvarious things, and have come to understand a little about the mindsets and lifestyle thru that. Also about some of the practical stuff.

I have conversations with different military types regards PTSD  stuff too. WhenIsearched for PTSD info, mostly all military sites and forums poppedup (makes sense ... they really  are the pioneers  and experts in PTSD)

If I hadn't connected with mil types thn the NAVY part wouldn't have made me think immediately about the VA.

By the way, our own Canadian Dept. Of Veterans Affairs has a lot of wonderful and practical info about ptsd for sufferers and familes. Its online! and good insights for anyone, not just military folks. Its just geared to military experience is all ... and VA benefits of course.

(I also am researching relatives who served, one in WW2  in particular ... heartbreaking but incredible knowledge)

nite


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 11, 2004)

Kanadiana said:
			
		

> By the way, our own Canadian Dept. Of Veterans Affairs has a lot of wonderful and practical info about ptsd for sufferers and familes. Its online! and good insights for anyone, not just military folks. Its just geared to military experience is all ... and VA benefits of course.


If you get a chance, can you post that link in the PTSD forum here?


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## Kanadiana (Sep 11, 2004)

David Baxter said:
			
		

> Kanadiana said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Glad to. I'll find it and do that right now


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## Adui (Sep 16, 2004)

*Offline fer a bit*

Hi guys,

Just an update. I have started taking some homeopathic stuff, including Melatonin.

My sleep problems are GONE.. I am monitoring things and if I continueto improve I am going ot let it ride for now. I still however intend to look into VA benefits and such and if I can get plugged in there I will be seeing a Vet counselor and or Dr. to be sure I dont have anything more serious and or can get treatment for it if I do.

(Rest assured I am not going to just blow it off.. Things got way to dicey and I dont want that to happen again)

Anyhow, I wont be able to check in here more than once a week, probably not that often, till I come up with a way to reconnect my home internet.
So , till then, thanks for everything and God bless!!


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Offline fer a bit*



			
				Adui said:
			
		

> Just an update. I have started taking some homeopathic stuff, including Melatonin. My sleep problems are GONE..


That's good.  Is tryptophan one of the other things, by any chance?

You can also look at changing your diet to include more foods high in onega-3 essential fatty acid (EFA), including fish and whole grains, especially flax seed.


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## Daniel (Sep 16, 2004)

More sources for omega 3 include organic free-range eggs as well as: 



> Foods rich in Omega 3 are "olive oil, avocados, dark green leafy vegetables, salmon, flax seed oil, walnut oil, nuts, ocean fish, ostrich meat, grass fed beef, bison, and venison," says Mercola.
> http://www.psychlinks.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=1258



I remember ABC news reporting last year that omega-3s helped in cases where Prozac did not:



> At Sheffield University in England, Dr. Malcolm Peet gave omega-3 fatty acids to 70 depressed patients who had not been helped by drugs such as Prozac. After 12 weeks, 69 percent of the patients showed marked improvement compared with 25 percent given placebos.
> http://i.abcnews.com/sections/wnt/MedicineCuttingEdge/brain030819_prozac.html



For flax seeds, I just buy bread with flax seeds.  I stopped cooking with margarine after doctors on TV started recommending olive oil as a healthy alternative rich in antioxidants.  Since I am a vegetarian, I found an alternative to fish oil capsules called Omega3 Zen.


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## Adui (Sep 22, 2004)

*RE:Update*

Hi again, 

I dont know what Tryptopan is, but what I have is called ST Johns Wort, and feverfew. Afreind who has been there gave it to me, and it seems to be helping. Although as expected, not a perfect fix. I am at least in control enough to walk away when I have a bad moment.

Still researching the VA.. Definately got to get to them soon!

Take care


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 22, 2004)

St. John's Wort is reported to have some mild antidepressant properties but you need to be careful about two things: (1) it is known to increase sensitivity to sunlight; and (2) it can interact with/reduce the effectiveness of several other medications. Are you taking any other medications at all on a regular or semi-regular basis?


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## Adui (Sep 23, 2004)

David,

No I am not on any medications. I didnt know about the sunlight thing, but now I do and will definately be careful!

My Phone is now working agian, so I will be calling my local VA rep either this evening or if they arent in, then tommorow about this. 

To be honest till yesterday I was beginning to think I was more or less cured by the good sleep I have been getting. But yesterday proved that theory wrong. No I didnt go off the deep end again, but I felt the strewss building and did have to take a time out a couple times.. 
Anyhow, thanks again for the thoughts and suggestions and I will be reading and posting twice a week or so..

Take care


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## Adui (Sep 23, 2004)

one question I just thought of,

is there any length of time I should consider stopping taking the melatonin? I know with some things the body can become dependent, and or develope a resistance too, but I dont know if that is one of them.


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 23, 2004)

No I don't think there are any concerns along those lines that would apply to melatonin. I'll try to do some research into it though and let you know if I find anything worrisome.


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## sammy (Sep 24, 2004)

Hi Adui 
I've just read all through this thread...



			
				Adui said:
			
		

> I do not understand what is happening to me.. I am severely underemployed, working only 2 days a week, and my oldest child is emotionally challenged. Theres a lot of other stressors involved, so I know I am probably suffering a severe case of stress



too much prolonged stress can cause depression, I'm pretty sure...
it can be hard to see a way out...
You said your eldest child is emotionally challenged... I'm not sure what symptoms that he/she has, but that must be difficult.
Also being underemployed... I know when my husband had to accept not working (because of health problems), he went through depression and had to receive anti-depressants.. we have the National Health Service here in England though... it must be so hard for you... as you said you owe because of your child...
I can't begin to imagine having to pay for health treatment... 

and you said this...



> my early discharge, while Honorable and essentially timed with the force reductions after the Gulf war was related to emotional issues



do you think there are unresolved issues from that time of service still?

Please don't feel it's necessary to answer... it's just some things I noticed and thought that they must have brought a lot of stress upon you, which gets pushed down, but sometimes comes out later in other ways...


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## jubjub (Sep 24, 2004)

About the St. John's Wort.......I want to tell you that I experienced a severe reaction when I took St. John's Wort and a niacin pill at the same time.  I believe I darned near killed myself!  I have never seen this particular reaction mentioned in any documentation I have read or any programs I have watched on television.  I turned bright red all over and felt like my skin was going to peel off and my head was going to blow off and I suffered severe dizziness! I would take it at a time of day when I wasn't taking any other medications, just to be on the safe side.


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## David Baxter PhD (Sep 25, 2004)

That may have been a severe allergic reaction.

This is another potential problem with "herbal remedies" -- they are plants --- and they may be sufficiently similar to things that are allergens for you to cause a significant allergic response. 

I have allergies to several pollens and I don't react well to echinacea. Others seem to make me feel ill...


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## Adui (Sep 29, 2004)

Sammy,

I had not even considered the idea of unresolved issues from way back then. Not being in anyway knowlegeable about such things I cant say, but I can say that hardly a day goes by that I dont at least reflect on that decision.. (The one to allow them to get rid of me instead of treating me at the time). And I would be lying if I said I dont feel like I quit, or copped out. My father was a 23 year navy man, my older brother is still in the reserves, while my little brother was medically discharged from the marines for good reason. My reason at the time to allow them to let me go, rather than at least trying to get some treatment out of them for my situation, was that I believed somehow getting out of the navy would magically solve my marrital problems of the time.. I divorced that wife two years later, after two more years of almost daily fighting over stupid stuff. ( She was the best friend I ever had, we just didnt belong together romantically and making that decision ruined our friendship..)

So to make it short, yes I do feel guilty for getting out of the service the way I chose to.


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