# Advice/help please



## witsend

My LORD, I do not know where to begin!!!  I am a male in my early 30's and am severely depressed!  I have battled depression most of my teenage-adult life; 2 suicide attempts--one of which were very close to ending it all.  I have tried therapy with many, many, MANY psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, etc......talked with many friends, etc...taken almost every anti-depressant under the sun.....YET NOTHING SEEMS TO HELP!!!  I know the root of my problems-----I AM VERY SKINNY and have also tried remedies for that---vitamins, eating, working out excessively, nutritionists, I even did one cycle of steroids-which caused even more problems.....BUT I HATE MY LOOKS!!!  I vowed whenever I was a teenager to NEVER-EVER have any children to pass these ugly genetics on to----I HAVE KEPT AND WILL KEEP THAT VOW!  My hair is also thinning and nothing helps that either!!!!  I HATE myself.....and wish I COULD DIE.

To further compund matters, my parents are both at an advanced age---my Father has congestive heart failure and is an amputee----my Mother has macular degeneration, osteoporosis and she fell last year and broke a vertebra---thus, she is now permanently paralyzed from the waist down!!

Any advice given will be appreciated greatly!!!


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

I would just like to welcome you witsend. It sounds like you've been carrying a very heavy burden for a long time.  This forum is a great place to get help and support. Please keep in touch as there are some really experienced people around this site.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Thanks so much CM!!


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

How have you been feeling lately??


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Really depressed and disgusted, the whole scheme of things just appears so BIG, unsolveable and hopeless.


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

What are you feeling disgusted about witsend??


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

I grew up with my mother making jokes that I was the ugliest baby she'd ever seen, and she didn't like babies anyway.  Some mean people did make fun of my face too over the years.  It was SO hurtful.  I never wanted to hurt anyone else like that. How about you??


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## Daniel

*Re: Advice/help please!!!!!*



			
				witsend said:
			
		

> I know the root of my problems-----I AM VERY SKINNY.
> 
> My hair is also thinning and nothing helps that either!!!!  I HATE myself.....and wish I COULD DIE.



Why do you feel it necessary to look a certain way?  Is it mostly related to romantic relationships?  



> To further compund matters, my parents are both at an advanced age---my Father has congestive heart failure and is an amputee----my Mother has macular degeneration, osteoporosis and she fell last year and broke a vertebra---thus, she is now permanently paralyzed from the waist down!!



Are you a part-time caregiver for them?  Do you feel "compassion fatigue"?


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## witsend

*fatigue*

No.......I am glad to be able to do what I do for my parents...only wish I could improve their physical cicumstances........


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

I was wondering if you have thoroughly investigated possible physiological causes for your weight.  It sounds like that weight problem might be a sign of some other underlying medical condition.


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## witsend

*physiological causes*

Yes, pretty much in depth!  Nothing was revealed....just a victim of "poor genetics"---my father/mother very slender too........hence, one of the many reasons I NEVER want kids---don't want to pass this along any further.  It is so embarassing......will NOT go to beach, public swimming pools, wear shorts, muscle shirts,etc.....one reason i love colder weather...am able to hide and/or camouflage my undesirable, underveloped physical embarassments.


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## Jon

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Welcome to the forum witsend.  I am glad to see that you are here, that shows that you still have a key - hope.  



> I know the root of my problems-----I AM VERY SKINNY



I believe you may be wrong about that.  Have you considered that the depression you feel may be affecting you physically?  I know that when I went through my depression and suicidal days that I lost a LOT of weight.  I have also heard of people with extreme depression losing hair as you described.

If you can put aside the way you feel for a moment, could you tell us more about yourself and what your goals are?  Ignore time, money and the past and just let us know what you would like to get out of life.  Try to list 5-10 things you would like to accomplish if it were possible.


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Yes, I understand.  I'm amazed at how many of us feel that way about ourselves too.  It's taken me a long,long time to learn to accept what I think are big flaws in my appearance and learn to start liking myself for me instead of living for other people.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*



			
				Jon said:
			
		

> Welcome to the forum witsend.  I am glad to see that you are here, that shows that you still have a key - hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the root of my problems-----I AM VERY SKINNY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you may be wrong about that.  Have you considered that the depression you feel may be affecting you physically?  I know that when I went through my depression and suicidal days that I lost a LOT of weight.  I have also heard of people with extreme depression losing hair as you described.
> 
> If you can put aside the way you feel for a moment, could you tell us more about yourself and what your goals are?  Ignore time, money and the past and just let us know what you would like to get out of life.  Try to list 5-10 things you would like to accomplish if it were possible.
Click to expand...

Hey Jon,

Thanks for responding.  5-10 things I would like to accomplish---IF it were possible:
1.  My parents health to improve
2.  To have a better body
3.  To have more hair
4.  To not have to feel so embarassed/"gyped"/insecure/envious,etc. around others due to my circumstances #2 and # 3 above.
5.  An explanation as to why I have had to endure--what others take for granted!?


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## witsend

*cm*

Yeah...........living for other people...........Mmmmmmmm....well, what flaws do you have??  As for living for other people, if 'all men are created equal"--then why do some, suffer such pain?  Mother nature must have her "pets" or "picks" or "preferences" huh?


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

What have your consultants said about your body image?  What kind of feedback do you get from other, objective, reliable people?


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Consultants............people who are PAID to make us feel better.....have went thru the drill about, "You do not look emaciated, you have other qualities, you look fine, a lot of people may wish they looked like you do"....yeah right.....

Other obyective, reliable people---friends---who will say nice things anyway, basically a repeat of the counselors speech, blah, blah, blah......it's like, okay, you break a leg---but your arms still work, so forget about the broken leg issue!  Or, your liver is bad....buy your heart is working fine...so focus on the good part.....To parallel it, they, should try this:  Putter down the speedway in a beat-up Ford Pinto...while everyone around them is cruising in Jaguars/Mercedes/BMW's/Porsches/Vipers--------get the picture????


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Vipers and Porsches maybe, but personally I don't go for the looks of Jags/Mercs or BMW's!


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Well, be that as it may, you see my point don't you?


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

What I see is alot of anger.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

No, my friend I am not angry.......at least not at you or anyone else.....maybe at myself and at Mother Nature due to my situations.....you jut don't understand the depth to which these issues affect me---maybe, please, reread my initial post?  I hope it never happens to you---but what would you do if you were in my predicament????  And again, thanks for reading and responding.  I have to run an errand---be back in a few minutes.


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## David Baxter PhD

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

I think I do understand how much you are affected by these issues but that is the problem, your inability to accept and love who you are, your *perceived* deficiencies...

You are not going to get a different body type. You are probably not going to get more hair. So now what?

You *are* angry. Clearly. You can continue to be angry at Mother Nature and to blame your physical appearance for your unhappiness, or you can start to examine why you are so focused on something so superficial. I suspect that's what your previous therapists were trying to help you do. I also suspect it's not what you want to hear.

Eventually, you have to make a choice: Continue to rage, internally or externally, at the bad hand you think life has dealt you, or learn to accept it and make the best of what you have.


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## witsend

*angry?*

But all of that is just so unfair, I wish my Mother would have had an abortion whenever she was pregnant with me.  This whole world is based on unfairness and it starts prior to birth.  I know what you are saying, but, I just don't feel like I can apply it.  It's comparable to, I know surgeons perform operations....but that doesn't mean I can or would even attempt.  It is hard to say how we would react to situations, unless we have them personally, then again, each of us are different in our rationale and interpretation.


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## David Baxter PhD

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Lots of things are unfair. And almost everyone I know has been affected  by something unfair. As I said, it's a choice.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

But does that mean we gotta like it???  What type of choice is that???  That's like saying, okay, I am going to die--do I want cancer or leukemia??  See, so many people have been given so much more.......and they either take it for granted...or have an ego the size of our federal deficit!  See, this goes beyond my own feelings of inadequacy---there is also my parents' health issues.....I see others who smoke, drink, do drugs, go to jail, on and on and on---and they were given sooooooo much!!!!  Ditto for their parents-----who do likewise, but are in good health....it does not make sense....it's like some of us are being punished unnecessarily, while others may flourish without limits!!!  Do you know how difficult it is to even go on a date and know that EVERY guy she sees while she is with you, is better looking and could steal her away...knowing that inside...she wants him instead of you.....do you see what I am getting at???  And you say almost everyone you know has been affected by something unfair---well I certainly hope it was not like what I have been dealt!!!  I hope their unfairness had a better, quicker, long lasting remedy!  Unlike mine, which seems to get componded daily!!  If I lived on an island where no one was around me---it might be easier...but see, it is quite difficult to even attempt to change whenever inidividuals---who you may or may not even know---are either staring at you (like, Ewwwwww man) or even verbally pointing out what you already are so unhappy with.......


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## Jon

*Advice/help please!!!!!*



> Eventually, you have to make a choice: Continue to rage, internally or externally, at the bad hand you think life has dealt you, or learn to accept it and make the best of what you have.



This is very true.  It is easier said than done, but when a person can make that decision to just accept that which they cannot change and then work to make the best of life... That is when change happens.

I have my own defects physically that could get me depressed, but I just live with them & do the best I can.  For example, I was born with a foot that is twisted at the ankle, so I have to be careful in sports or I trip myself - I was made fun of often in my school days when I'd fall on my face for no apparent reason.  I have a bad shoulder so I can't play catch with my kids unless I throw underhand and my friends all wonder why I don't play basketball & volleyball with them.  I have extremely sensitive eyes so they water alot making it look like I'm crying.  I have a bad overbite which has killed most of my front teeth.  I could go on, but the point is that I live with it.  I am very happy despite this because I made the decision to accept my ailments & make the best with what I have.

There was a news story recently here about a kid who tried to commit suicide in high school.  He basically blew his face off, destroyed his jaw, etc. but lived.  he now looks like the elephant man or something.  However, even though people now react to his physical appearance in rude ways, he has gotten involved in the community and is part of an effort to educate students and families about suicide.  he is in his 30's now same as you & I.  He is a great example of someone who made a choice.  Sure he made the wrong choice first (Suicide), but when he ended up looking the way he does now, he could have tried again, or he could make the choice to help others and he has become loved by the community.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Yeah, I can relate to you and also to the kid---I feel the pain from both your personal examples; his decribed example....yeah, I have heard of similar instances...the ONLY reason I haven't attempted it again, is fear of causing myself more pain, instead of destroying the current pain.  Thanks for your input so much!


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## HA

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Hello witsend,

There are many more *Ford Pinto's* and other makes of economy cars then there are Porche's, BMW's and so on. I think I would be a Volkswagon Beetle, older model. 

I did have a friend once who was unusally thin. He had a very high metabolism and could eat forever without gaining weight. Gaining weight was what he tried to do but to no avail.

How much time throughout your day do you spend thinking about your unusual thinness?

When we are in a minority and a painful life, the best help comes from those who have walked in our shoes and know exactly how we feel.
Here is a support group for thin men
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-63044.html

Ask the dietician
Underweight - Ask the Dietitian®


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## Daniel

*Advice/help please!!!!!*



			
				witsend said:
			
		

> Do you know how difficult it is to even go on a date and know that EVERY guy she sees while she is with you, is better looking and could steal her away...knowing that inside...she wants him instead of you.....do you see what I am getting at???



I would think that an increase in self-confidence would help. The Olsen twins looked very thin when they were on Saturday Night Live and no one seemed to care.  The thin "heroin" look was once popular among some male models.  Also, there are women who actually care more about personality than looks.  With a divorce rate of over 50 percent in the US, you may not be missing out as much as you think. 



			
				witsend said:
			
		

> ...it's like some of us are being punished unnecessarily, while others may flourish without limits!!!


The Vietnam War draft is just one example.  Some rich folks were more able to avoid the draft by going to Canada, etc.   However, one of the soldiers who experienced years of torture in the "Hanoi Hilton," James Stockdale, wrote books and articles to show how he used the Stoic perspective of life to mentally survive:



> Was I a victim? Not when I became fully engaged, got into the life of unity with comrades, helping others, and being encouraged by them. So many times, I would find myself whispering to myself after an exhilarating wall-tap message exchange: "I am right where I belong; I am right where I was meant to be."
> In War, In Prison, In Antiquity





			
				witsend said:
			
		

> Mother nature must have her "pets" or "picks" or "preferences" huh?


But Nature often gives both tremendous advantages and obstacles to the same individual, as is the case with Stephen Hawking's motor neuron disease and his extreme brilliance.  There are many celebrity examples, of course, like the Parkinson's disease of Michael J. Fox, the paralysis of the late Christopher Reeve, the suicides of Jonathan Brandis (former child actor on "seaQuest"), Ray Combs (former host of Family Feud), Kurt Cobain, Marilyn Monroe, and the murder of John Lennon and JFK. Another example of the yin-yang phenomenon is Einstein's genius and his son's schizophrenia:



> The fate of Albert and Mileva's first child, Lieserl, is unknown: some believe she died in infancy and some believe she was given out for adoption. As for the two boys: one was institutionalized for schizophrenia and died in an asylum. The other moved to California and became a university professor, and had little interaction with his father.
> Albert Einstein - Wikipedia



Also, the ancient Stoics loved literature that showed the tragic nature of not being able to go with the flow of things.  A modern poem of this nature is "Miniver Cheevy," which is mentioned in the footnotes of the book _The Suicidal Mind_.


"Miniver Cheevy" by E.A. Robinson

Miniver Cheevy, child of scorn,
Grew lean while he assailed the seasons;
He wept that he was ever born,
And he had reasons.

Miniver loved the days of old
When swords were bright and steeds were prancing;
The vision of a warrior bold
Would set him dancing.

Miniver sighed for what was not,
And dreamed, and rested from his labors;
He dreamed of Thebes and Camelot,
And Priam's neighbors.

Minever mourned the ripe renown
That made so many a name so fragrant;
He mourned Romance, now on the town,
And Art, a vagrant.

Minever loved the Medici,
Albeit he had never seen one;
He would have sinned incessantly
Could he have been one.

Miniver cursed the commonplace
And eyed a khaki suit with loathing;
He missed the mediæval grace
Of iron clothing.

Miniver scorned the gold he sought,
But sore annoyed was he without it;
Miniver thought, and thought, and thought,
And thought about it.

Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
Miniver coughed, and called it fate,
And kept on drinking.


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## Nutmeg

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

witsend,

Have you also investigated "body dysmorphic disorder"? According to a website from a search I did on google, here it is in a nutshell:

_Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) is a mental disorder defined as a preoccupation with a perceived defect in one's appearance. If a slight defect is present, which others hardly notice, then the concern is regarded as markedly excessive. In order to receive the diagnosis, the preoccupation must cause significant distress or impairment in one's occupational or social functioning._ 

I realize that to you, the defect is not slight at all. But please check out the website. Maybe it will be of some value:

http://www.btinternet.com/~david.veale/bddinfo.html


nutmeg


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## David Baxter PhD

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

www.psychlinks.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=2022

www.psychlinks.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=75

www.psychlinks.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=46

www.psychlinks.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1160&start=0


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## witsend

*dysmorphia*

Hey Nutmeg,
Thanks for your interest and help.  But that disorder is for inidividuals who are ALREADY big, but do not, for whatever reason realize it..however, the common denominator is body dissatisfaction, so ANY insight is welcomed.
Thanks again my friend!


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## Nutmeg

*Re: dysmorphia*



			
				witsend said:
			
		

> But that disorder is for inidividuals who are ALREADY big, but do not, for whatever reason realize it..however, the common denominator is body dissatisfaction, so ANY insight is welcomed.
> Thanks again my friend!



Do you mean fat?

confused,
nutmeg


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## witsend

*Do I mean fat?*

No Nutmeg, I mean muscular---of course, I would take fat too over skinny---any day!


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## Techie

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Hi witsend,

First, please be patient reading this... its 3AM here and I may not be making 100% sense... 

Self-image is a terrible thing... please believe me with that thought !

I am fat.... I have a body mass index of 45+,  but I have seen hundreds of people fatter than me !  I am muscular and powerful... and my wife says my receeding hair-line was what attracted her to me !

I have all of my life thought I was 'ugly' and 'fat', but to this day remain confused as to why so many great looking women have been so attracted to me !   That whole erronious self-image thing again it seems.

But ALAS, because of my weight, I have Sleep Apnea (was told that it was so bad that it has caused brain/heart damage) and I have a crushed disk in my lower back (L2-L3) from being an idiot and lifting a v8 engine out of a car !!  I thought I had something to prove by being 'stronger' than I was fat.  Like somehow the strength would cover the fact I am overweight.  Like somehow people would look past the fat because I was strong.

Now I cant even sit on the floor and play with my child... I cant help wash the dishes because I cant lean forward even a bit !  I cant even many times be intimate with my wife because of the damage to my back... In fact... when I first migrated to the country I know live in... my back turned SO bad I could not MOVE off the same spot on the bedroom floor for almost 2 months !!  My fiance at the time had to sponge-bath me and clean up after me like a baby !!  I had to use a cane to do our wedding rehearsal !

God what I would give to be able to go back in time and think to myself 'I dont give a damned about what other people think about me' so that I WOULD NOT think negatively about myself !!

DONT CARE about other peoples perceptions of you. Because I can guarantee what YOU think OTHER people think of you is WRONG ! They are probably just as worried about what you think of them them !

What you said earlier: "Do you know how difficult it is to even go on a date and know that EVERY guy she sees while she is with you, is better looking and could steal her away...knowing that inside...she wants him instead of you.....do you see what I am getting at???"

Yes, I DID.  But you know what ? I was WRONG.

Point1: Who is/was she with ?  YOU ? Yes you !  It was you that had her on the date right ?
Point2: "...know that EVERY guy she sees", well, unless there is more to this particular example I think you are assuming are you not ?
Point3: "....knowing that inside....", again, unless you have more to that particular story you are again assuming.  How would you know what she wants/thinks inside ?

Dont just assume because it did not work out that it was because she thought you were thin or not muscular enough!  Dates not working out happens to EVERYBODY including the 'drop-dead-great looking ones' !  Besides... IF they DO think that then be grateful you did not end up with them !!

Heck, my wife looks at guys and says "hes got great muscles!" and stuff like that... and I think one of two things: "SO ? Who cares ?" or "Yes he does!".  Thats it.  I dont read more into it than I need to !  Believe me... I worry enough about things without CREATING things to worry about.

If all of this does not make sense then do yourself at least ONE favor... when you get these thoughts stop yourself and ask "What evidence do I have to justify these thoughts?" and think it out.  Evidence however CANNOT come from things generated inside your head... becuase it is always one sided and usually WRONG.  Evidence only comes from external sources that you have FIRST hand knowledge of.  No assumptions are allowed.


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## Cat Dancer

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Is there anything about yourself that you do like?

I am ugly (or I think I am) 
and I have a hard time with that, but I don't look around and think everyone has a better life than I do. Everyone I know, no matter what they look like, has had some trauma or loss or hard time in their life. People that you think have the perfect life might actually be living in a kind of hell. 

Check out the advice on this website:

Body Image


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## witsend

*ANYTHING*

Hey Janet and thanks for posting.
To answer your question, No!  There is nothing about myself I like, there is nothing to like.  I am glad you don't look around and compare yourself to others---because believe me, it is misery...goes to show how life is so unfair!  I hate being the one who makes others feel better about themselves from a physical standpoint.


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Hello witsend. You said that 'there is nothing ' about yourself that you like, that 'there is nothing to like'.  That sounds like you hate yourself. You do deserve a better life than all this pain and hate. You need to make the choice to create something about yourself that you do like.  You CAN do it!


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## witsend

*cm*

Hey!
I do NOT like nothing/anything about myself....how can one create something out of nothing?  I do hate myself.......and yes I don't like having this pain and hate........BUT, I feel I have no choice.


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## Cat Dancer

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

I'm sorry. I didn't make myself very clear. I DO compare myself to other people, but I don't believe those people have better lives than I do because of how they look. Everyone has problems.


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## witsend

*janetr*

Well......it is not that I think their lives are better, well, yes, they may be----I would think, YES everyone has problems...but their problem would not most likely consist of a body image issue.  If flaws were minor, I could accept them, but such as mine is NOT the case.

So what do you feel is so bad about YOUR appearance??


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Maybe you feel undeserving of having a choice to make things better for yourself, so you refuse to acknowledge that the choice to change your life exists.


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## witsend

*underserving*

Hey CM,

Yeah------you are right----110%---I do feel undeserving, to be happy, to be loved, everything........you hit the proverbial nail on the head my friend!


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Can you tell us what it was like for you growing up?  How did it go in school from the early years, and at home?


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Growing up.......Mmmmmmmmm...."dirt poor", was picked on because of my looks, clothes, lack of money, etc...was never athletic, for fear of failing, was made fun almost daily....only child...real Mother died when I was but 6 months old...raised by Father and a step mom--she also ridiculed me for being thin...she thought I should be heavier too (she is heavy)...my Dad is---well like me.......I graduated Cum Laude from a pretigous university...now--I have overcame the poverty.....not a millionaire...but compared to back then I am!!


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## Cat Dancer

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Sometimes I think it is much easier for me to focus on how I look  than to deal with the real issues in my life, the really tough things that I just don't want to face. 

I don't like anything about myself. I don't think anyone here would say I am ugly though. That's the frustrating part. That somehow what I see is not the same as what other people see. Could it be the case for you? 

Probably there are lots of people who are envious of you being able to be skinny. There are people, me included, who have practically killed themselves trying to be thin. 

I don't know. This probably makes no sense. 

I do hope that you can figure things out somehow and find happiness somehow.


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Thanks Janet!
Mmmmmm..don't think this is the case for me though.  Yeah, you made a lot of sense!  I am so appreciative of any and all advice...Thanks again.


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## Nutmeg

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

witsend,

My guess is that you have felt very helpless and utterly frustrated for a long time. You have shared some massive traumas in your early life that would have broken a lot of people. But you overcame them to graduate with honors and earn a living. However any validation or reassurance I give is going to be devalued and dismissed by you. It's not useful. I think you want us to know that you feel very helpless and that nothing on earth is going to help you. And I think we're understanding this is how it is for you.

nutmeg


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Being mistreated at times in our childhood can cause us to acquire beliefs about ourselves that are harmful, and untrue. Is it possible that you have invested so much of yourself in this belief that you fear losing your 'self' if you decide to it up?


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## witsend

*nothing's going to help*



			
				Nutmeg said:
			
		

> witsend,
> 
> My guess is that you have felt very helpless and utterly frustrated for a long time. You have shared some massive traumas in your early life that would have broken a lot of people. But you overcame them to graduate with honors and earn a living. However any validation or reassurance I give is going to be devalued and dismissed by you. It's not useful. I think you want us to know that you feel very helpless and that nothing on earth is going to help you. And I think we're understanding this is how it is for you.
> 
> nutmeg



Yeah.....to a point, I suppose you're right!  But I do not intend to devalue or dismiss anyone's advice---in fact, I encourage their input.  I need all of the help I can get!


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*



			
				cm said:
			
		

> Being mistreated at times in our childhood can cause us to acquire beliefs about ourselves that are harmful, and untrue. Is it possible that you have invested so much of yourself in this belief that you fear losing your 'self' if you decide to it up?



Harmful=YES;  Untrue=No,  If I could lose this, I would!!  I wish I could change the whole situation and/or outlook.......seeing other men with lots of hair....with muscles the size of boulders....arms like tree trunks....then seeing myself...thinnning hair.....arms like toothpicks....wrists like pencils...legs like pipe cleaners.....acne/scarred "flip-side of a Nestle Crunch bar face.....Who wouldn't wanna lose all of that???  Fortunately, the determatologist is really assisting with the acne....


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## Nutmeg

*Re: nothing's going to help*



			
				witsend said:
			
		

> Yeah.....to a point, I suppose you're right!  But I do not intend to devalue or dismiss anyone's advice---in fact, I encourage their input.  I need all of the help I can get!



Have you noticed that no matter what anyone says, you find a way to answer, "Yes but..."? This makes others feel frustrated and helpless. I *think* that's how you feel and have felt for a long time. I understand that you appreciate other's input. And I'm pointing out a dynamic that may be operating so that "solutions" are impossible at this time. And that's okay. Maybe you're just at the beginning of questioning the helplessness.

nutmeg


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## witsend

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Well, I feel frustrated and helpless...that is why I am here....YES--I truly appreciate everyone's advice, help and encouragement!!!  I must say, in the past 3 days, I have felt better just interacting with you great people!  So, expound for me please Nutmeg.......you mentioned "solutions"  what solutions do YOU see, or, more importantly, reread my initial post, what solutions would YOU apply if, (God-forbid) this was you??  Thanks again my friend!


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## cm

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Hi witsend,

I mean the core belief that you don't 'deserve' to be loved, happy, etc.  Could this have been ingrained in you during your upbringing.  Also, how did you become so successful academically?  I've had a difficult time completing my academic  and employment goals.


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## ThatLady

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

Well, witsend, I'm pretty scrawny myself. As you get older, you'll find it to be a blessing. Anesthesiologists will love you. 

In all seriousness, I can understand what you're feeling to a degree. Yet, being skinny does not define you as a person. Neither does thinning hair. (I always wished for a wild mop of hair, too. Never had one, though.) If you use those measures to define yourself, you're doing yourself a disservice. You're also doing a disservice to all the fun people out there who might be just as lonely as you are, and would really enjoy your company.

I don't know anybody who wouldn't wish (if they had their druthers) to be prettier (or more handsome), shapelier, richer, more intelligent, more socially savvy...you name it. Nobody has it all, and everybody wants it all. I think the trick lies in realizing that just as nobody has it all, nobody is deprived of all of it, either. We've all got something to offer, if we're willing to take the chance, step out there, and offer it.


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## Nutmeg

*Advice/help please!!!!!*

witsend,

I don't think it's useful for me to give you solutions. Your belief system seems pretty powerful at this time and yet I think you're starting to question it. That's a good thing.

nutmeg


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