# Just Thoughts?



## healthbound (Mar 3, 2006)

I find that my *fear * of thoughts or feelings can sometimes be more "dangerous" and overwhelming than the thoughts and feelings themselves. Recently, I've been learning how to simply notice them instead of fear them. However, I'm wondering how this might relate to suicidal thoughts and feelings. My sister committed suicide and I was suicidal at 2 different points in the past and so I definitely have all kinds of fears (and other feelings) when I think or feel suicidal. At what point do I know some of my thoughts and feelings actually _are_ dangerous? I realize this might seem like a bizarre question.


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## foghlaim (Mar 3, 2006)

hi Healthbound, 
i have read and reread you post above and rather than try to answer the question for you,? I hope it's okay to try answer it for myself.? (i could have written it). 
For me i think my thoughts and feelings are only dangerous if i take action on them, whether out of the fear of them or because of them.? ? i have have had suicidal thoughts in the past, even to the point of "setting it up".? ? ?More recently these thoughts have resurfaced ( occassionally) but it's the fear of these thoughts and the fear that i might act on them pushed me to the point where i had to admit that i needed help. (hence i'm seeing a psych).
so for me it's the action i might take (out of fear of my thoughts and feelings) in order to avoid both the fear of them and them, that makes them dangerous.? ?
Jeeze what does that sound like...? 

I think also the above would be a good question for your therapist.? 

Hope this doesn't confuse you, not sure it will make any sense to anyone but me. *s*?


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## Cat Dancer (Mar 3, 2006)

Maybe when/if you start to make plans? 

When you stop fighting those thoughts and feelings and feel at peace with them? 

I'm not sure. 

I found this website that I thought had some good ideas about suicide prevention and thoughts:

Suicide prevention help

_These suggestions are at the bottom_ 

SOME HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS IF YOU FIND YOURSELF CAUGHT IN THE STORM OF SUICIDAL THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS:

? CONTACT a crisis or suicide prevention center (see SuicideHotlines.com) or a trusted friend, social worker or clergy and

? TALK. They will not think something is wrong with you or that you are "weird" or "crazy".

? SHARE your suicidal thoughts and feelings, fears, anger, disappointment and sorrow.

? BE ACTIVE. Go for a walk and get some exercise.? Often depressing and suicidal thoughts and feelings fade when something or someone else stimulates us.

? DO SOMETHING - anything.? It does not have to be a HUGE project - but a little project LIKE TIDYING UP a counter or small cupboard.?
Remember to PRAISE YOURSELF for the work you have done.

? START A CREATIVE PROJECT in art, gardening, music, crafts, writing etc.? Don't worry if your project is not a masterpiece.? Many people have found when they are working on creative projects, they forget their painful suffering.

? Find someone or an animal or plant who could USE YOUR LOVE AND CARE.

? REMEMBER that along with your suicidal thoughts and feelings You are having other thoughts and feelings which are not suicidal.

? LISTEN to your thoughts and feelings without analyzing them, letting them come and go WITHOUT dwelling on them.

? IDENTIFY and ACKNOWLEDGE other thoughts and feeling which are not suicidal.

? READ this friendship letter over again.

? REMEMBER that you have experienced times in your life when you did not have suicidal thoughts and feelings because you were not
depressed but were hopeful at the time.

? REMEMBER times in which you may have felt strong suicidal thoughts and feelings that eventually passed into times of other thoughts and feelings which were not depressing but WERE HOPEFUL and you were able to look forward.

? ACKNOWLEDGE for yourself that having suicidal thoughts in the midst of other thoughts is emotionally draining and that you have shown incredible strength in remaining alive and staying alive in spite of the powerful suicidal thoughts and feelings that you may have.

*? In the same way that you do not believe or act upon all the thoughts and feelings that you may have, REMEMBER that just because you may have a suicidal thought or feeling, you do not have to believe or act upon the thought or feeling.*


by Kenneth Hemmerick


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## healthbound (Mar 3, 2006)

thanks Notsure and janet.

I'm not sure either.? I see my therapist on Monday and will definitely bring it up then.? Today is a new day (thank God!) and I'm feeling better (mind you, I've only been up for about 1/2 hr!).

I've been feeling overwhelmed for the past month and yesterday I was feeling particularily frustrated and "depleated".? I'm just not sure about where that point comes when I should be concerned about how I'm feeling/thinking.

I will definitely follow up and let u guys know what my therapist says about it.


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## healthbound (Mar 3, 2006)

oh -wow...hahaha...when I read your post, janet, I didn't see all the resource info for some reason. Thanks . I'll read it and check out the site too. :study:


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## Cat Dancer (Mar 3, 2006)

Sorry. I was adding that in as you were posting I guess. :red:


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## healthbound (Mar 3, 2006)

ohhhh...kay, that makes sense. I was laughing at myself wondering how I missed all that! too funny. Thanks, janet


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## Cat Dancer (Mar 3, 2006)

You're welcome. Sorry I confused you.


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## Eunoia (Mar 3, 2006)

healthbound, I think sometimes those thoughts can just be a reflection of a bad day or trying to deal w/ something specific, any kind of change really, but personally I think it's also a sign if you tend to think about these things a lot, if it interferes w/ your ability to keep working at getting better, pretty much if things just seem hopeless. or if you're sad without any ups, ever... espec. if that's a change from before. your thoughts and feelings can be very valuable in guiding you through things, giving you feedback about how you feel about things in general... trying to understand those feelings and thoughts can be difficult, connecting them to something can be even harder... I don't know if this is what you meant, but for me for example, I can see how it would be scarry to not want to feel a certain way or think a certain way (hence the fear of those feelings/thoughts) b/c when you're feeling, thinking those things you're already in it so to say. maybe too much "in it" to be able to do anything about it, again, the concept of hopelessness... but definitely learning to _recognize_ those feelings/ thoughts and discussing them w/ someone (ie. your therapist) can be very beneficial... you know how the "unknown" can be scarry? the more you're prepared that you may feel this way during certain times, or in relation to certain events/people/triggers or even just for "no apparent reason"- and knowing that it can happen but also knowing that you DO have coping mechanisms and a support system in place when it DOES happen can help a lot. hope this helps...


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## healthbound (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Janet and Eunoia. I've been feeling stress for a few weeks now and I realized the other day that I was beginning to feel very "tired" again. I've noticed that I've had some suicidal thoughts periodically within the last 2 months and I'm feeling frustrated and not sure how the heck to make everything work.


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## Cat Dancer (Mar 4, 2006)

I can relate. 

It's hard. So much stress. I hope that the medication dosage change will help you.

For me, the times I made attempts were impulsive. In that moment I just couldn't take anymore and it was not planned at all. That is scary to me because lately I think about it a lot. 

But once I made plans over several weeks and finally I decided to see a family nurse practitioner and it turned out I had hyperthyroidism. So that was making me feel panicky and hopeless. 

I guess we have to just try to take one day at a time and if you can, try to build up a good support system. I think that is so important. Keep in touch with your doctor and people who you know are on your side. 

I wish the best for you.


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## healthbound (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Janet.
I'm feeling better today. I spent some time outside and I had dinner at a friend's place. I've got a few things to do and then I'm heading to bed = Low stress 

I also responded to my step mom's offer to help out. She has been very supportive over the past month. At first I wasn't sure how to interpret it - and I didn't really "trust" it as this is not how she (they) normally respond. Anyway, one of the MAJOR stressors has been financial. As a result, I haven't been eating very well or very much which can contribute to stress (and my stomach problems). I also had some medical tests last week, this week and am undergoing more this coming week. I have found those exams stressful and realized they were triggering a variety of thoughts and feelings. Also, I think I got overwhelmed with reminiscing about some past issues recently too. And my anxiety management group ended recently and I'm missing that extra 1 and 1/2 hours support per week. I'm also having to participate in a job placement program which I'm finding challenging. I'm feeling very overwhelmed and can't comply with the simplest things.

And then lastly, I've been wondering how I'm going to be able to support my son and I on a part time income. I'm really not sure how the heck this is all supposed to work out.

So, lots is going on. It's good that I'm talking about it though. I notice that I'm having a difficult time staying present as I'm disconnecting a lot, but I think it's good that I'm periodically noticing that I'm disconnected - because then I can reel myself back in.

Anyway, like I mentioned, I'm feeling HUGE relief that my step mom is going to help with groceries, so I know we'll be eating better this week.

Anyhoo.


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## Eunoia (Mar 5, 2006)

I completely agree w/ Janet- a good support system is SO important. and trying to get yourself out of the house, meeting up w/ people like you did for dinner even if you'd rather do nothing else than that. I get in those moods where that's all I want to do, but what gets me through is remembering those good times w/ friends. and no it never fixes the problem but how could going for dinner "fix" my "issues" right? but at least you're getting a chance to take your mind off things for a bit, and catching up w/ people who can be part of your support system and help you by just being there and listening now or in the future... and knowing that those people are in your life can make it easier to reach out to them when you're feeling really down b/c you know they already know "some" of what's going on... even if it's just that you've had a rough time sleeping lately per say... you may have mentioned this somewhere else, but you said your anxiety management group is done. is there another support group you can join? I'm so happy your stepmom is offering to help you out and will do so w/ groceries, I think that'll take a load off your shoulders... it must be difficult to have to worry about how to support you & your son, but all I can say for now is that you've come a long way, right? and you've made an enormous effort to get better and just the fact that you are a little better off than before and wanting to go back to work is amazing, and that you have tackeled some of those demons, and they may still be here but you're doing the best you can hun. take one day at a time and keep working at it and when the time comes you can worry more about things but right now that is out of your control b/c you're already doing everything that you can, right? I know that's easy for me to say, I dont' mean that it is, but you have already made such progress and made so many changes that now all you can do is take one day at a time... and take people up on their offer to help if they can (like your stepmom). It's a _good_ thing to have people supporting you just like you would help them


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## healthbound (Mar 5, 2006)

Hey Eunoia.
Great post. And really great reminders. You are right, I have come a long way. And I do have the offer for help from my step mom and little things like getting out of the house make a world of difference.

There are other groups and I will talk to my therapist tomorrow about them to see if it makes sense for me to be in another one at this time.

Hm. The support group ending. The only support I had been using was my therapist, my support group and this forum. Maybe I'm out-of-sorts because I'm feeling alone again and therefore considerably more overwhelmed. If I don't create other supports outside of therapy, then it makes sense that I would feel lost after it ends.

Similar to how lost I felt after my sister died because she was the only one I felt love and trust for (and then my son was born and I felt love for him).

Maybe I'll feel less alone and scared if I am able to create some support outside of therapy. Eeeek. even typing that scares the crap out of me. But interesting. Maybe that's one of my biggest challenges --- While I am very personable I don't get close to people. And in order to build supports, I need to first of all connect with people and then somehow trust them or something? I don't know.

Anyway. Something to think about. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, so I must be on the right track!!


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## Eunoia (Mar 7, 2006)

yes, creating support groups outside of therapy would be a good goal to work towards... but it's always easier said than done... therapy is kind of "safe" in that way, but it's not forever! use it as a safe base to work from, using skills you learned in it and the ability to trust people and open up about yourself, and then slowly try to apply those to the "real" world... maybe some of those connections that you already have are those exact support systems you're looking for, you just have to utilize them! I find that sometimes I think I don't have people as a support system, even though intellectually I know I do, but it _seems_ that way b/c I won't actually use them.. but when I do it's scarry at 1st to open up but it feels so much better in the end... and I think that w/ every time you are able to be honest and genuine and open up a bit that relationship grows closer and it moves away from the "acquaintance type" to the actual friend type one... it doesn't happen overnight, and trust definitely isn't earned overnight either but it will come w/ the right people....?


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## healthbound (Mar 11, 2006)

Hey Eunoia..sorry for the delayed reply. I took a few days break.

The whole concept of trusting people is what scares me to death (oops, no pun intended ). I am really realizing how untrusting I feel towards people. I hadn't recognized how much of a challenge it is until more recently.

I'm feeling somewhat better lately. I finally got an opportunity to paint over the last 3 days and I've noticed that's helped me feel a bit better.

I just finished about 3 weeks of seeing various doctors, nurses and other practitioners concerning 3 physical health problems I'm having right now. I found these visits scary and difficult. And even though I still need to undergo more tests and exams, I feel pretty good for already going through the ones over the last 3 weeks.

While I was anxious during all visits, I did have one "dramatic reaction" with one specialist. I froze (muscles and mind) and dissociated for a while. When I realized the exam was finished and the Doctor was telling me it was OK and that I should unclench my hands I felt really stupid and terrified, but she handled it really well. Thank God. Anyway, even though that was extremely uncomfortable, I feel like it was a mini-success because I a) went in the first place, which means I'm taking care of myself as these medical problems come up instead of disconnecting from them and b) It demonstrated to me that even though I was terrified and had a reaction, the doctor didn't freak out or even take advantage of the situation. That was important.

And in fact, all the exams I had were fine. I even had a male doctor for one of them and it worked out fine.

I'm assuming this must be symptomatic of the PTSD, but I have to say that I'm feeling a bit confused about why I've felt so dramatically different lately. I asked my therapist for an update about what I am diagnosed with because I feel so out of control of my thoughts, perceptions and feelings within the last month.

It's scary to me that I could swing so dramatically right back into a suicidal depression. I felt shocked about it last year and I feel shocked about it again.

Anyway, thank you very much to everyone for their support. I feel confused about all this.


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## foghlaim (Mar 12, 2006)

thinking of you..? you are one very brave person!

well done.


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## healthbound (Mar 12, 2006)

Thanks, Notsure


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