# Does depression increase or diminish our empathy?



## white page (Jun 29, 2009)

This is a question which has been knocking about in my head recently, I have very mixed feelings about this.

 My personal experience is that in the initial phases of depression I almost over empathize, everybody's hurt be it big or small affects me deeply, to the point where I feel more and more helpless in not being able to make others feel better, I try to comfort the best I can, and become more and more a pain sponge, now is this really empathy, I am not too sure.

I know that in the phase of deep clinical depression , there is a loss of empathy to the point that I feel totally numb of all feeling and there only seems to be one option, which is the worse possible option. As this would be devastating to others.

I take care not to reach this point any more. When the pain of others begins to override any delight or joy I can feel on a day to day basis, the alarm bell begins to ring. 

I also wonder if any other members experience a similar process.


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## Atlantean (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

I can relate to what you are saying and also believe that both extremes are the case when you are depressed.  Sometimes it makes us more empathetic to others plights, and sometimes it just deadens us.  I think it just depends on the individual, and the extent of the depression.


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## Always Changing (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*



> When the pain of others begins to override any delight or joy I can feel on a day to day basis,


I am thinking that maybe,  the reason this happens to you is that other people pain mirrors in some way your own and maybe it is your own pain\feelings in relation to your own issues whether consious or not are being brought to the fore.  ?
this is just a guess and I could be way off base.

Being able to empathise with others is a good thing,  but when that stops being a good for us and starts affecting our own lives then it is time to step back and take care of ourselves. which I am guessing you have done this or something similar


> I take care not to reach this point any more


We cannot take anothers pain away as much as we would like to be able to, but we can offer words of comfort, sympathy and companionship as they make there way through their journeys towards wellness.
For myself, I know I have had to not respond or even read certain posts when I am too close to the topic. Other times it is okay and helps me to see things in a diff light. but most importantly for me is knowing I am not alone.


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## white page (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*



> I am thinking that maybe, the reason this happens to you is that other people pain mirrors in some way your own and maybe it is your own pain\feelings in relation to your own issues whether consious or not are being brought to the fore. ?
> this is just a guess and I could be way off base.


Thanks - this is very perceptive of you. I think you are right, normally my shoulders are pretty broad, but at the moment there are some heavy family troubles, which are bringing up anew a whole bunch of old isssues, I've noticed lately that I'm not noticing the pretties and not laughing too much either. 


> For myself, I know I have had to not respond or even read certain posts when I am too close to the topic. Other times it is okay and helps me to see things in a diff light. but most importantly for me is knowing I am not alone.




This I can really relate too as well.


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## Jazzey (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

When I'm starting down the path to depression, I feel overly empathetic.  I feel the person's pain and want to take it away for them.  I sop up every bit of emotion that I attribute to that particular person.  

Once I'm well on my way down the path, I'm numb.  Add to this that once I'm further down the path, it takes a great amount of concentration to process information or to respond.  So I tend to just read without responding thinking that I'll make up for it when I'm back to normal again.

As you said yourself WP, I think the trick is to recognize when you're going down the path again.  Although sometimes you just end up there without recognizing how it is that you got there.

Thank you for this thread - I really like it.


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## white page (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*



> Once I'm well on my way down the path, I'm numb. Add to this that once I'm further down the path, it takes a great amount of concentration to process information or to respond. So I tend to just read without responding thinking that I'll make up for it when I'm back to normal again.



Right on the button Jazzey,  I know that one


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## ladylore (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

Great thread WP :2thumbs:

This definitely has me thinking: In my worst depressions I could barely move - literally. So empathy of course goes out the window if one can barely talk.

There seems to be obsessive traits mixed in with the beginning of a major depression. Everything becomes important. Everything is a life and death matter. I don't think this is empathy at all as I can't do anything about anything - as my mind won't stop long enough to allow me to do anything. But then again what I am obsessing about are usually about human rights, accessibility (lack there of) and a whole matter of things that I need to take care of now because I am spiraling down.

This is rare these days. Minor depressions I can keep my empathy. Empathy is in fact what helps to pull me out. It isn't all about me and what I am going through. If I can do something small like smiling at a stranger and they smile back - I do in fact start feeling better. It's about the random acts of kindness, just because that really make a difference in my recovery.


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## white page (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*



> Minor depressions I can keep my empathy. Empathy is in fact what helps to pull me out. It isn't all about me and what I am going through. If I can do something small like smiling at a stranger and they smile back - I do in fact start feeling better. It's about the random acts of kindness, just because that really make a difference in my recovery.
> ______



 :2thumbs:  This is so very true LL , those seemingly small random acts of kindness can tip the balance from a grim day to a day with the possibility of hope 
So true about the return of a smile, a smile means complicity and benvelonce, I often wonder if any one has measured the surge of feelgood brain chemicals whilst strangers are exchanging smiles.


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## Daniel (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*



> My personal experience is that in the initial phases of depression I almost over empathize


One book that mentions this:



> In contrast to many books on depression, this text takes the view that those most susceptible to depression are people with strong personalities. Being naturally conscientious and reliable, they tend to carry on under great stress, where weaker people would simply give up. In the end the burden becomes too much and they succumb to depression rather like a rubber band which will snap if stretched too far.
> 
> Amazon.com: Depressive Illness: The Curse of the Strong (Overcoming Common Problems): Tim Cantopher: Books





> The commonest form of acting out that I see in my patients is excessive caring.
> 
> ...Feel guilty, not resentful, exhausted and ill. Your guilt won't harm you. Indeed, it is grist to the theraputic mill, if you'll only let it happen and take it into the sessions. (pg. 79)
> 
> Amazon.com: Depressive Illness: The Curse of the Strong (Overcoming Common Problems): Tim Cantopher: Books





> Changing things in your favor will make you feel guilty...
> 
> I've got news for you: guilt is good...Indeed, preversely, life is going to get better for those close to you by the fact you are placing limits on what you can do for them.
> 
> ...


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## stargazer (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

For me, I think it's a bit like whitepage described in her first post.  In the early stages of depression, I actually come out of my head and start listening, noticing what's going on with the people around me.  In my case, before the depression, I might have been too preoccupied to pay much attention to others.  My own projects, goals, needs, schedules, objectives, etc.; keep me in a kind of self-stimulation that doesn't leave much room for me to stop and consider the perspectives and feelings of others.  But then, when depression first sets in, I seem to become suddenly more empathetic.

Later on, however, once the depression has reached a certain stage, I become just as self-absorbed as I was when I was when I was "stimulated" earlier - only this time the self-absorption consists of bleak feelings rather than feelings of excitement, enthusiam, and so forth.  At those times, I actually begin to view the people around me as the ones who are lacking in empathy, because I feel that they couldn't begin to understand how awful things are inside me.

This probably goes along with what I've read about bipolar people experiencing periods of feeling normal - neither high nor low - and during these stages, we come across as more "normal" to those around us.  Hopefully, at those times, a natural empathy is part of what surfaces.


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## forgetmenot (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

thanks for excellent post i can relate to all that is being said. To much epathy at the start then go dumb totally not realizing how i affect others. Need to learn to recognize signs and stop from going totally dumb  great post never thought of this


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## Pheonix (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Does Depression increase or diminish our empathy?*

Depression makes me even more empathic. I start to cry over sad stories in the newspaper or TV as if they were my experiences.


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