# Sibling Incest



## GDPR (Aug 9, 2012)

Something I have only casually mentioned in therapy is that when I was a child, my 3 older brothers sexually abused me. I don't know when it started because I don't remember it ever _not_ happening. Some of it I remember clearly and some of it is foggy and vague. It pretty much continued until I was 17 and left home. 

My mother knew what was happening, she saw it happening many times. She would beat me for it, until I bled, and would tell me it was my fault because I was a girl. She said that's just how 'males' are, and that's just what they do,and if it happened to me, it was _my_ fault(something she said whenever she knew anyone abused me). She treated me like I was this awful little girl that wanted these things to happen and assumed I was instigating these things. She never punished the boys for it because 'boys will be boys'.

The truth is, when I was very young, I don't think I knew it was wrong. It was just something that was done to me and I was used to it. When I was a little bit older, my brothers saw the neighbor boy(a teenager) molest me,and they used that against me. They threatened to tell mom what had been done to me so that I would do what they wanted. They knew I didn't want to be beaten for what Tom had done to me, so their threats worked(which,by the way, if mom would have found out,she _would_ have beat me for it). They also used that to take my toys,my food,and to get me to do their chores for them. I was threatened and bribed with that on a daily basis. 

I refused my dad when I was 15, I woke up with him on top of me, and fought him off of me, and he went to my mom and told her I had been in my brother's bedroom and was doing stuff with him, I think he did that to cover his own butt.He wanted to make me look bad,which worked. I didn't bother telling my mom what had really happened because I knew she wouldn't believe me anyway. It seemed like no matter what happened, I was always blamed. I always looked like this little whore that went around doing sexual things with every male I was around. I was very ashamed of everything that was going on, but I didn't know how to stop it. 

I guess I haven't really talked about it in therapy that much because I still feel so much shame over it. I should have put a stop to it somehow,especially when I was older. Plus,there were many times I didn't mind it being done to me when I was real young, times I even liked it. It's such a hard subject to talk about, and I have so many different feelings about it all, and it feels so shameful to discuss. I don't know who is to blame, I blame myself for it all, but after watching something on tv last night, I have been thinking about it and trying to figure it all out. Sometimes I am not even sure it should be called 'abuse' since a majority of the time I was a willing participant. And because I didn't put a stop to it.

I haven't found anything here about sibling incest, so I guess I am looking for help and info.

---------- Post Merged at 08:28 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:16 AM ----------

It seems like I may have already talked about this,If I have,sorry for repeating myself.


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## David Baxter PhD (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't know that there is anything fundamentally different about sibling incest than any other form of childhood sexual abuse. The basic elements are the same:


victim younger than abuser, often too young at the beginning to fully understand what is happening
abuser in a position of power and/or authority over victim
abuser uses threats, intimidation, and fear to obtain compliance, sometimes alternating with gifts or favors or special attentions
victim fears disclosing the abuse because worries or knows s/he won't be believed and may be punished or blamed

This is definitely something you should try to discuss with your therapist. It will be difficult if not impossible for you to resolve what happened on your own.


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## forgetmenot (Aug 9, 2012)

YOUR mother was sick to say such things   never your fault never ok   talk to your therapist  god  you need to talk to someone who can help you understand to help you heal      hugs


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## Banned (Aug 9, 2012)

I relly hope you can bring this up with your therapist.  It's a lot of trauma to keep inside and you don't have to anymore.  Please let your therapist help you be free from the grip these people had over you so you can live more freely.


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## gardens (Aug 9, 2012)

We were talking about shame in another thread.  It's a powerful, horrible emotion.
But there is no way (and I know that this is easy for me to say) you should feel any shame. 
Horrible things were done to an innocent child (you) and I consider a teenager to be a child as well - I'm so sorry.
Yes please follow the advice of others and talk about it with your therapist  - let them help you.


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## GDPR (Aug 9, 2012)

David Baxter said:


> I don't know that there is anything fundamentally different about sibling incest than any other form of childhood sexual abuse. The basic elements are the same.



It seems different than other sexual abuse that I experienced. I know what I wrote sounds horrible, but it doesn't really feel that way. It just seems more like something that happened, not like 'trauma' or anything.But maybe that's because it wasn't that bad compared to some of the other things I went through. Or maybe because I loved my brothers. I don't know, I don't understand why I feel the way I do about it.

The reason I posted about it was on the tv show I watched, they said it was important for a person to seek therapy,and that it would take many years to work through something like that. I was just surprised by that statement. And I started wondering if maybe it affects me more than I realize.


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## Banned (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not in your head obviously so I don't know how you feel, but I know for me, the abuse I endured growing up was my "normal", ie I didn't know anything different.  It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized how deeply it did affect me.  Your therapist can help you sort out the emotions involved and help you stay emotionally safe if you choose to go down this road.


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## GDPR (Aug 9, 2012)

I have been doing trauma therapy for over 2 years, this seems minor in comparison. Is it a necessary road to go down?


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## Banned (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not sure if it's necessary.  That would be a really good question for your therapist.  There are so many factors to consider when working through different topics in therapy.  I would guess that the fact that you brought it up is an indication that it's on your mind and therefore worth mentioning at therapy, and you did state in your first post that you are looking for help and info on this topic.

Just out of curiosity, why are you minimizing the impact this may have had on your life?


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## GDPR (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not sure why I'm minimizing it, to be honest. As I said before, sometimes I'm not even sure it should be called 'abuse'. I'm really confused about the whole thing now after watching what I did on TV last night.

And yes, I did say I am looking for help and info. First I think I need help recognizing it as abuse. How can it be abuse if my brothers were children themselves when it first started? How can it be abuse if I was a willing participant alot of the time?


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## David Baxter PhD (Aug 9, 2012)

Lost_In_Thought said:


> First I think I need help recognizing it as abuse. How can it be abuse if my brothers were children themselves when it first started?



Because they were older and bigger and had power over you. Because they knew what they were doing and, at least in the beginning, you didn't. 



Lost_In_Thought said:


> How can it be abuse if I was a willing participant alot of the time?



What does "willing participant" mean in this context? It can indeed seem complicated but there can never be true "consent" where there is a significant imbalance in power or authority.


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## Banned (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't know that you were a willing participant as much as you may have resigned yourself to the fact that that was your life at the time.  Like David says, there was a serious imbalance of power and as a child you cannot consent to such an act.  In fact, you didn't even have the opportunity to consent.  I don't believe you were willing.  I believe you didn't know any other options or way of existing.  You may have detached emotionally so that it didn't destroy you emotionally.  I am speculating here - I think with some work through therapy you will find the answers to these and undoubtedly many other questions.


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## GDPR (Aug 10, 2012)

True. I wasn't a willing participant,and I didn't have the opportunity to consent.And I have been making it all 'ok' by trying to convince myself otherwise. Nobody likes to admit that they were sexually abused by their own brothers until they were old enough to leave their home. But that's what happened. 

I lied when I said I don't feel like it was abuse. It was.And I get so mad that my mom blamed me and didn't do anything about it. But it's all so confusing because I don't hate or blame my brothers because it's what they were taught to do, they learned from watching.

The only thing I have been able to do all these years is just push it out of my mind, or I should say 'try' to push it out of my mind.


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## Banned (Aug 10, 2012)

I can understand a lot of your thinking and struggling with this.  I wasn't molested but I was badly abused by my brother.  I thought I dealt with it in therapy but I'm not sure if I have...or if I have enough.  It took me a long, long time to accept that it actually was abuse, and I still struggle with that word.  Who wants to believe that the very people who were supposed to protect them, look out for them, and love them, would abuse them?  Isn't it much easier to think that it was normal, ok, and life goes on?  It's probably easier, yes, but I think in the long term it creates a lot of issues within our adult lives, relationships, ability to trust, etc.  

Pushing it out of our mind is easy - I don't disagree for one second.  But I think that as long as we do that, the abuse is continuing because it still has power over us.  I think once we deal with it, only then are we no longer under it's power.

I think you're really, really brave for coming out this far with it.  It's definitely a great first step towards healing.


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## forgetmenot (Aug 10, 2012)

Your brothers  knew right from wrong they knew  and they were old enough to know that   it was abuse  and i think talking to your therapist will help you see that  
I too minimize what happen because  then i don't have to deal with it.   Pushing it away  burying all those emotions  it doesn't work  but dealing with what happen will take a lot of strength  you will need to be with a therapist who deals with trauma and who knows how to guide you safely through it all.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Aug 11, 2012)

Hey, just know, it wasn't your fault...  Even if it felt good sometimes: you can't help that part - it's physical/natural to do that to oneself, but it's not your fault you were introduced to it by other people in your life.  When it isn't yourself doing it, and you have no power, and you are abused, not removed or saved from that situation, or blamed, you are NOT the one at fault.  Especially children.  I know because I am a former victim as well.  I told my therapist about it.  I had to write him a note to read during our session because I was too ashamed...

Maybe some of these links will help at least, while you are considering talking to your therapist...

*From Survivor to Thriver: Adult Survivors of Child Abuse*_  (ASCA SM) is an international self-help support group program designed  specifically for adult survivors of neglect, physical, sexual, and/or  emotional abuse._
ASCA - Adult Survivors of Child Abuse

*Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Assault:* RAINN (RAPE, ABUSE & INCEST NATIONAL NETWORK)
 CAVEAT: _The following descriptions are meant to serve as a  general guideline for how a victim of sexual assault might react in a  time of pain or crisis. It is important to recognize, however, that each  victim of sexual assault will have his or her own life experiences and  personality that will influence how he or she react to the assault._ 
Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Assault | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

Working with adult survivors of child sexual assault
 By Lesley Hewitt and Carolyn Worth -- Victims like us: the development of the Victorian CASAs 

*Adult Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse*
_If you were raped or sexually abused as a child, the first thing  you should know is that it is not your fault, you did not cause it, and  you are not to blame in any way, despite what you may have been told._
Welcome | Adult Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse | Support and Counseling | DC Rape Crisis Center

Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse 
_Adapted from:  The National Committee for Prevention of Child Abuse Publication, 1990._

Forums for Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse and Sexual Assault -- Recovery Canada 
_The general forum for supporters is open to all people who  support survivors of sexual abuse and sexual assault. It is  password-protected, in order to limit its members to only those who  support survivors. We hope that this will be a place where you can feel  secure in sharing with others the struggles and joys that you experience  along the way._

Adult Manifestations of Childhood Sexual Abuse 
*The American Academy of Experts in Traumatic Stress*
_The American Academy of Experts in Traumatic Stress? is a  multidisciplinary network of professionals who are committed to the  advancement of intervention for survivors of trauma._

People Recovering from Trauma | PTSD | Dissociation | ManyVoicesPress.com
*MANY VOICES: News, Art Gallery, Books, Letters, Links, Newsletter, Sharing, etc*

HAVOCA - Help for Adult Victims of Child Abuse
_Welcome to HAVOCA.  We provide support, friendship and advice for any adult who's life has been affected by childhood abuse. _ 

Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Resources - Public Health Agency of Canada 
 Public Health Agency of Canada

Adult Survivors of Child Sexual Assault - Women and Gender Advocacy Center 
 Women and Gender Advocacy Center in Colorado

Adults Surviving Child Abuse: Self Help Resources 
 self-help resources

Incest Survivors Support Group - DailyStrength 
_Incest_ refers to any sexual activity between closely related  persons (often within the immediate family) that is illegal or socially  taboo

*IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT*
Why Child Sexual Abuse Can NEVER Be Your Fault | Pandora's Project 
_As survivors of childhood sexual abuse, we often grow up blaming  ourselves for the abuse that we suffered at the hands of others._

Guidance Systems: Sexual Abuse: It's Not Your Fault 
_Elementary aged students present real-life scenarios of sexual  abuse and the resulting emotional impact. Follow the children from the  beginning to end to identify what sexual harassment is, how to handle  this serious issue and establish available age-appropriate solutions._

Sexual Abuse: It's Not Your Fault 
 By dana825
_Sexual abuse is ANY unwanted sexual contact. Sometimes, it is  hard because that contact may feel wanted and it causes internal  conflict because it feels good but you hate yourself for it. This is  normal and something that nobody has to go through alone. Many victims  of sexual abuse don't tell anyone because they feel that they will lose  the love of the people they care about if anyone finds out. _ 

Prevention Programs: Child Sexual Abuse 

It's Not Your Fault - Refine Us 
_Today, I want to share something with the 39 out of 100 of you  that are reading this that have been abused that you need to hear: Your  abuse was not your fault.
You didn’t cause it.
You didn’t deserve it.
You didn’t do anything wrong.
You aren’t to blame.
It’s not your fault.
_
It's Never Ever Your Fault 
 by Rose Grier
_You have arrived at a Website designed for kids who have been  traumatized by abuse. If you are such an individual, understand what has  happened to you is not, in any way, your fault. Regardless of the type  of abuse you have suffered, it is “never ever your fault.”  You are a  survivor.  Find here a new and refreshing approach to help you with  self-esteem and accountability issues using colorful art and no nonsense  witticism customized to speak to you through your modern-day concepts. I  understand too; I am a survivor like you.  Rose Grier_

Sexual Abuse-It happens-It's Criminal-It's Not your Fault! 
 Family Resource Centre


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## GDPR (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow....thanks jolly for putting in so much time and effort...


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Aug 11, 2012)

Not a problem at all...  I have all these saved somewhere else.  I needed them, some people in my group that I admin needed em, and now it's obvious to me that you need em here....   8)  ♥


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## bloodwood (Aug 16, 2012)

One of the things to remember is that they knew it was wrong, your brothers, father, mother and neighbor. Their actions, their shame and their manipulations show this.

As a child it doesn't matter whether you hated it, liked it, or weren't sure. As a child with a child's mind you just don't have the experience to understand the context, the intentions or why it might be wrong and that it can stay with you for life. A child doesn't know this and isn't expected to. A child should be allowed to remain a child.
Do not ever judge yourself because you did not say no, or fight or whatever. It is very common for a victim to comply on different levels...just to survive the day. And you did that. You survived.

Learning to appreciate this will help you gradually heal. But also, learning to understand all of those muted and confused feelings will go a very long ways. You never truly get rid of the feelings but at least understanding *WHY* they are there weakens them. It can give you peace and let you love yourself as a good person again.

My three sisters were molested and at 40 - 50 they still bear the scars but are making progress in finding peace with themselves. This forum is a really wonderful place to chat and talk to others. If it helps you to move further in the healing process then it has been worth it.

---------- Post Merged at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:56 PM ----------

Turtle, I really like this. Well put:
" the abuse is continuing because it still has power over us"

---------- Post Merged at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:56 PM ----------

We minimize it because that is the only way that we can cope with it sometimes. We say that we are OK with it so that we *can* be OK with it. And when that doesn't work we may deny to ourselves that it even happens, we may hide the memory from ourselves. One of my sisters did that.
Of course this is only a weak and temporary solution and always leaves us in pain.

You are right that your brothers were children. And as children they may not have been completely clear on things. But their efforts to hide and manipulate tels you that they had a pretty good idea it was wrong. What if we don't look at the sex and only look at the fact that they knew the actions got you a beating. It was wrong of them to continue actions that got the sister abusive and unreasonable beatings. 

Children have a sense of right and wrong even if it is not fully developed. You were three, they were older. A three year old has only just begun speaking with any skill and understanding things.

So let's acknowledge that they were children but that they knew there was a wrongness none-the-less. I have heard five and six year old kids say "that's not fair!" They do understand something of right and wrong at those ages.





Lost_In_Thought said:


> I'm not sure why I'm minimizing it, to be honest. As I said before, sometimes I'm not even sure it should be called 'abuse'. I'm really confused about the whole thing now after watching what I did on TV last night.
> 
> And yes, I did say I am looking for help and info. First I think I need help recognizing it as abuse. How can it be abuse if my brothers were children themselves when it first started? How can it be abuse if I was a willing participant alot of the time?


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## GDPR (Aug 16, 2012)

bloodwood said:


> One of the things to remember is that they knew it was wrong, your brothers, father, mother and neighbor. Their actions, their shame and their manipulations show this.




They _did_ know,didn't they? All of them did, and I guess I didn't fully realize that until I read what you said a few times. My entire family manipulated me.And I believed my mom when she told me it was my fault because I was a girl. I started dressing like a boy so that it wouldn't happen anymore, but it didn't make a difference. I really believed I was causing it to happen.

I went through that for 17 years. I didn't have anybody to help me. And I was too ashamed to tell anyone what was going on.


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## bloodwood (Aug 16, 2012)

From every thing I have ever read heard or experienced I know it is very common to blame yourself. For sexual abuse, rape, physical abuse, etc for a couple of reasons. First is that the offender will often imply the you have some blame in the process (she dressed sexy, she didn't say no, she was asking for it). Second is that sometimes the society or other parties may imply it directly or indirectly as in the case of your mom. 

I have also know other women and girls who dressed down or dressed like a boy. Sometimes it was just because they were self concious about their body and that's all. It might work and it might not but you know that they aren't happy. A lady or girl want to look nice and feel good about it. Not have to hide who they are. So right there you are punishing yourself by trying to defend yourself. And that is not fair to you.

All of these reasons are why we pursue help in forums and from doctors. We deserve to heal and we deserve to be happy and like ourselves.
We also deserve to feel safe in life don't we? If you don't feel ready to talk to a doctor this is a place to start but you should ultimately embrace the idea that talking about this to a doctor in person is where you can really begin to heal.
What I found is the more you can reveal, the more they can do to help you. But do it at a pace you are comfortable with. I reveal things when I am able but I never stop trying to expand what I'm comfortable with.


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## David Baxter PhD (Aug 16, 2012)

Again, everything you said is right on, Peter.


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## bloodwood (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks, I had a darned good teacher. And these truths have help me. :tennis:

---------- Post Merged at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:53 PM ----------

One more thought,

You said: "I didn't have anybody to help me. And I was too ashamed to tell anyone what was going on."

This reminds me of my own family. Your parents are supposed to be your primary protectors. Then your siblings. So here you are, a child going through the worst kind of hell unable to trust your parents or family to rescue you. How could you ever trust anyone else could or would step in. I have known of people abused that did step forward to tell people and even then they were thought to be telling a lie or somehow at fault themself.

One thing I have seen in my lifetime is society going from near denial about abuse to an almost overprotective state about protecting children. (Children can't hug each other in a schoolyard here.) But what it means is that today a child is more aware that they can get help when things go wrong. It is a kind of progress and means that a few less people may go through what you endured.


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## GDPR (Aug 18, 2012)

Talking about this here and thinking about it is stirring up so many different feelings. I feel so much shame and it literally makes me feel sick. But at the same time, I feel really pissed about it all too. 

I had said I was a 'willing' participant, which, sometimes I was, when I was really young. Not exactly willing, more like I didn't know any better. Like I said before, I don't know when it all started because I don't ever remember it _not_ happening. I guess I just went along with it because I knew there would be consequences if I didn't. Sometimes I did like it though, and that's what I feel ashamed of.

One of them raped me when I was a teenager. And I really have alot of shame for that because I wasn't a little kid anymore.It really made me feel like a worthless piece of sh*t. I tried to kill myself after that happened, it was like THE ultimate humiliation. I didn't want that to happen, I wasn't willing, and I just wanted to die because I knew I simply didn't matter. To anyone.

My brothers all still treat me like crap, that's why I don't get around them or talk to them. I feel like I hate them right now.Maybe I always did hate them but was too afraid to say it, I don't know.


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## forgetmenot (Aug 18, 2012)

Your brother needs to be held accountable for what he did to you and your mother as well for not protecting you   The best thing  you can do now is to get away from all of them and not have any contact with any of their poison.   oh god  perhaps one day they will all get what they deserve but for now you look after YOU and YOu alone ok

I am sorry you went through all  that  but again just know you had no control ok  but now you do so get away from them all  if you can


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## GDPR (Aug 18, 2012)

I am away from all of them now. I have been for awhile.


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## ladybug1966 (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi Lost_In_Thought, 

I first want to begin with letting you know that I am so sorry you are going through all of these emotions right now. I can understand how difficult and confusing they are.  

I, too, was raped and molested by someone in my direct family.  No one in my family has been held accountable and they don't seem to 'believe' me, nor did they protect me. I am angry, one minute I hate them, the next I love them, and the next I have no idea who/what/where I am or anything. I told people (aunt, neighbor, etc) and still didn't get help as a child. It lasted through my teens. It's confusing as heck, but that's why we have therapists and doctors to help us sift through all of this. I, too, have chosen to distance myself from certain family members. If that's what helps you feel safe and takes care of you - by all means, that's all you need to focus on right now. Taking care of you is first and foremost.  



> I had said I was a 'willing' participant, which, sometimes I was, when I was really young. Not exactly willing, more like I didn't know any better. Like I said before, I don't know when it all started because I don't ever remember it _not_ happening. I guess I just went along with it because I knew there would be consequences if I didn't. Sometimes I did like it though, and that's what I feel ashamed of.



I feel like I could have written that.  It's like the abuse became a part or just was my life - but it isn't and it wasn't.  What happened, as you know, was wrong. It is illegal and it is not your fault.  You had no control over what happened to you or your mother's actions.  They had the power, your parents were supposed to protect you, and they didn't. They broke your trust, which is hard to restore. You have nothing to be ashamed of, though that is a feeling that is difficult to release. (I think there is a post started on the forum about shame.)  You do deserve care, support, and understanding from a T, friends, people here a psych links, and anyone else you can find that will listen that you can trust.

Keep fighting forward, Lost_In_Thought. It's a fight worth fighting for. It's your fight and you deserve everything from happiness to freedom.  

Take care!


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## bloodwood (Aug 19, 2012)

I agree with forgetmenot. While dealing with this stuff you don't need them in your life. Maybe later...and maybe not.

Lost_in_thought, you are opening doors and exploring some difficult stuff with the purpose of healing. Examining it weakens it and can give you peace and comprehension. You said it is stirring up all kinds of feelings and that is the way it works. These feelings have been repressed to a degree and they include feelings that have never been resolve. And they include feelings that belonged to a very young mind.
For me just going through a family album can send me reeling for a few days as I resort the stirred up feelings.

Sometimes working on this stuff is like climbing stairs. You struggle up a flight and then just stay there for a while, processing what you've learned. Then after a calm you might tackle another flight that builds on the previous. I happens at it's own pace. It happens with your therapist. It happens when you are alone just reflecting. The judgement of those who did those things mean nothing to you as an adult. In their way they were sick and also any of their judgments were skewed. Not truly valid.

Think of someone in your adult life who cares about you. A friend, doctor, storekeeper - people who have showed you compassion...and thereby valued you. Think of things you have done for others. This is who you are. You have value and are cared for today. You can find family outside your original family.
These terrible terrible acts against you don't determine your value. Your heart and mind and acts give you value. People in your life express your value by liking you. How hard you are working on this difficult thing gives you value. The caring of the people in this forum give you value.
Think about these things to balance the dark side of your thoughts and keep it in a fair perspective.


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## GDPR (Aug 22, 2012)

I made the mistake of taking a phone call from one of my brothers. I thought it would be ok, thought I would have no problem with talking to him. But I was wrong. I don't remember the last time I cried that hard. Talking to him brought everything back, all the memories, all the feelings,etc. and I have been having a rough time since then.

It made me realize all the things that were done to me will HAVE to be talked about with my therapist. I guess they're not shoved down inside as deep as I thought they were.


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## rdw (Aug 22, 2012)

I think it was very brave of you to take that call. You talked to him, you cried but you are still standing.  And now you know that you need to work on this with your therapist.


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## Cat Dancer (Aug 22, 2012)

You are so brave. This does need to be dealt with in therapy. I can't even say or type the I word.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Aug 22, 2012)

Trust me, I kept that from my parents for about 20 years.  Mind you, in my case, when I told my parents what happened, it didn't exactly work in my favour.  But I'm not going to get into that.  My friends I told sooner than I told my parents, and several of them shared the one time a babysitter did this or that or a stranger at a bus stop, or a kid their mom was fostering.  I was shocked that so many people I told had something happen to them, too.  8(  It did make me feel less alone, though.

I didn't tell a therapist until a few years a go.  Because, like you, everything was bubbling to the surface.  You can only shove that stuff down your own gullet long enough before it works its way out again.  And although you're trying not to think of it and trying to block it out, it has pretty much the complete opposite effect.  I think it's the miracle of the human mind:  it knows when you're adult enough to be able to handle it.

And although it's sort of like when you have food poisoning, you feel a lot better when that nasty stuff comes out.  So think of therapy and facing this fear as though you have  some emotional food poisoning (because what you grew up with was the food  your mind had to ingest, it didn't have a choice). You know what I mean?   It feels nasty just bubbling inside the pit of your stomach, but afterward your head feels clear, and even if you got red eyes and a scratchy throat, it feels so good to get rid of that stuff that was making you feel so awful.  

And then you get to have chicken soup or a popsicle or some apple juice (and it's the best you've ever tasted).  That's when your therapist tells you it's not your fault.  You can start to feel good about yourself.  That big weight of guilt and shame and anger starts to leave you and you replace it with the good stuff that's supposed to be in there...

Bad stuff OUT.  Good stuff IN!  8)


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## GDPR (Sep 14, 2012)

Recently I had a memory come back, like a flashback, that was really hard to deal with at first. It felt so real, like it was happening _now_. I won't go into detail, because it's pretty sick, but I will say it involved all 3 of my brothers doing things to me while my dad watched.

I now know that I _didn't_ enjoy or like the things that were done to me like I have always thought. I realize now that I tolerated the things that were done by dissociating all feelings. I was there physically but not mentally. I didn't even feel what was being done to me at all. It felt like a dream, like it wasn't real,I could see what was happening, but I didn't feel anything at all.

I'm actually glad I re-experienced that incident. As hard as it was at first, I think it has really helped. And I was able to talk about it during my last session.


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## GDPR (Sep 19, 2012)

......and now I'm not feeling so good about talking about it during my last session.At first it felt...freeing or something,but now,It feels like I crossed some sort of imaginary line into perversion.

I don't really want to go back to therapy at all now.I don't want to face my therapist after what I told him last time. I really don't like how I am feeling about all of this.And I don't really understand why I am feeling the way I am.

The sad thing is,there's many more memories, all just as sick as what I told him last time. I feel really torn about how much else I should/need to tell. Merely saying that there were other incidents won't help me work through them,but at the same time,I'm not sure it's necessary to talk about every incident. I don't know whether I am supposed to just lump them all together or talk about each  one.


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## Cat Dancer (Sep 19, 2012)

I think it's important to keep working on it in therapy. I think asking your therapist about working on each incident would be a good idea.


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## forgetmenot (Sep 19, 2012)

Your therapist will know what to ask and when hun  Let therapist take the lead there ok   but you let him  know if he is moving too fast   
Talking about abuse will of course bring emotions to the fore front  bring fears with it feelings of shame ect hun  but to heal you have to work through it.  NOt an easy task at all but with your therapist guidance  you can do it    You just started hun don't give up  ok   you can do it  hugs


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## GDPR (Sep 30, 2012)

I didn't ask my therapist whether I needed to talk about each incident because my head turned to jello while I was in there. As a matter of fact, I didn't really talk about anything at all and sat there like an idiot while he was saying things about avoidance or something(I wasn't really listening).

Now I feel a little frustrated because I know I need to talk about this stuff, yet it feels too hard to.


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## GDPR (Oct 10, 2012)

I have been talking about it in therapy. It's definitely not an easy thing to do, I think I'm having a harder time talking about this than I have anything else. But I'm doing it.


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## gardens (Oct 10, 2012)

That's great Lost in Thought!  Good for you!!! :2thumbs:


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## W00BY (Oct 11, 2012)

Take lots of time for yourself and try and relax at moments where your mind is throwing up thoughts you were not expecting/wanting.

Do whatever it takes to take the edge off what is a very tough and demanding time therapeutically, I used to find a good quality ice cream and a couple of days of mulling around the house and accepting that I was out of sorts for a few days after therapy all helped.

Well done on opening up to your therapist, that is half the battle.


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## GDPR (Oct 11, 2012)

Something very strange though is I have been having problems with my asthma during sessions when I talk about this stuff. When it happens,my T will ask if I have my inhaler,but I haven't had to use it while in there yet.Instead,I am able to calm myself down and then my breathing is fine.

Is it possible that my asthma is related to the past?Is there a chance that it will get better as I work through all this? Curious cause it almost seems like it's all in my head.Almost like I just 'think' i have asthma.


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## David Baxter PhD (Oct 11, 2012)

It's more likely that stress/anxiety aggravates your asthma.


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## forgetmenot (Oct 11, 2012)

I agree with doctor Baxter hun stress can bring on a asthma attack   Best that you carry your inhaler with you ok   hugs


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## W00BY (Oct 11, 2012)

The process of therapy makes me breathless and I don't have asthma,

I find the deeper and more emotional the session the stronger the breathless sensation.

I tend to find I also get it as I leave the office almost as if everything I have divulged and let out is sucking back in and I can't catch my breath

It is an odd sensation I have only ever experienced as a result of therapy.


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## GDPR (Oct 11, 2012)

I guess I was thinking(hoping) that maybe it's just psychosomatic and maybe eventually I won't even need an inhaler or medical treatment for it.

Why am I able to stop an attack in its tracks without having to use an inhaler? Is it because I'm getting better at calming myself?


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## GDPR (Oct 20, 2012)

Just sitting here thinking about everything.

It's hard to believe that I was sexually abused throughout my entire childhood,for the first 17 years of my life.Not just by one person,but by many different ones. But it's true. It happened.

And I'm still here. I'm not institutionalized, I'm not curled up in a fetal position or in a corner banging my head against a wall. I probably should be. And I'm assuming I probably would be if it weren't for the handy dissociative disorder I have.

I have been doing alot of thinking lately, and I really feel like I want to work through all of this and get to a place where I am able to help other abuse survivors somehow. I'm not sure what I would like to do,but I'm really feeling the urge/ need to do it.

I never thought I would be saying that.There's nothing good or positive about what I went through, but I was thinking if I could help others, maybe at least it would make everything I went through worthwhile.

I have always felt so worthless,but if I really could help others, then I wouldn't be,right?


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## rdw (Oct 20, 2012)

LIT you are a survivor and to be admired for that. I think you are an inspiration to others and would be a great role model and compassionate support to fellow survivors.


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## gardens (Oct 21, 2012)

Lost-in-thought,
You have already helped people by sharing your experience!


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## MHealthJo (Oct 21, 2012)

Yes, LIT. I think people forget that this forum ranks well in Google, and although not a zillion people post regularly, I am always looking at how many are online. Always a TON  of "guests" = Lurkers. 

You simply have no idea how many people have read things and said... "Wow. She is so brave, and she has great ideas."
"Look at what has happened. But she talks to others. She learns stuff. And she's decided she's worthy of getting therapy and reaching out."

"If she is.... Maybe I am, too... "

"If she performs some of the functions she does... Maybe I could, too...."      

Wanting to do something more, too, is wonderful and you'd be capable and you communicate ideas very well. There'd be a number of options of ways to help. And please remember that you can do quite a few things like that without having to reach some sort of "perfection" or "Ultimate Riddance" of like, the impact or the mental health issues... If there's something you want to do, you don't have to think, "Oh, I can't help anyone or support anyone until I have reached Utter Perfection myself"... You can still do it on your journey. I think support groups (or online ones) could be an example of where you can do it while you're well and truly still on the journey.

You are absolutely right that it allows many people to form some sort of "meaning" out of a terrible thing that has happened, that shouldn't have happened, but did. Like Viktor Frankl's story ( which I STILL haven't read!  )

Great thinking.


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## GDPR (Oct 24, 2012)

I made the mistake of taking a phone call from one of my brothers,and to be honest,I haven't been doing very well since then.

He started talking about all of this,I told him I didn't want to talk about it,but he asked me to please just listen to him.I agreed because I thought maybe he was going to apologize or say he was wrong or felt remorse,or something similar.

Instead,he went into detail about an incident that I don't even remember at all and had the nerve to say "I wanted to #%#% you so bad when you were little".He also told me how much fun he had and how much he liked doing the things he did to me. He was actually bragging about the things he did.

Of couse,I said what I thought.I told him what he did was wrong,that he abused me,that it's not ok and asked what was wrong with him,why was he bragging about it,etc. 

He said it wasn't abuse,that we were just kids.He said it was just what kids do,and it was normal.I told him it was NOT normal,it was wrong,it was abuse,it doesn't matter that we were kids,he was alot older than me and he knew what he was doing,that he never left me alone,that I didn't have a choice,etc.

He sounded surprised and confused and said " are you crazy", " you liked it".He talked about a time when he was going to do a certain thing and I told him not to do that and was telling him no,that I didn't want to,but that he could do what he 'usually' did.........

I am shaking as I write this,and I feel sick.There is something seriously wrong with him.He really believes there was nothing wrong with what he did all those years.And I am so glad he lives far away from me because I am afraid that from the way he was talking he would try to do the same things now.

I have been having major anxiety since talking to him,to the point it makes me feel like I will black out or something.I can't sleep,been watching over my shoulder....all my PTSD symptoms are in high gear.

I don't know how to deal with this.I guess what bothers me most is him saying I liked it.I guess there were times that I did. I feel so ashamed of that.

And I also feel ashamed of him,of my entire family,of everything.I even feel ashamed for writing this because it's such a personal and taboo subject.

But I really,really need to hear something that will help me make sense of this.....I need to hear something because I feel so overwhelmed with mixed thoughts and feelings right now.


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## rdw (Oct 24, 2012)

First I am so sorry that you had to go through that abuse again because to me that phone call was abusive. Secondly you were a little girl when those incidents took place and had no ability to stop them from happening. What happened to you was not normal by any standards and not the usual curiosity of children. I'm glad that you were able to express your feelings and tell him that what he did was wrong even though he tried to justify his actions. - classic abuser strategy.  
Thank you for being so brave and sharing your story.


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## MHealthJo (Oct 24, 2012)

I am so sorry LIT. 

You did very well with what you said and you were very brave. 

There is nothing to be ashamed for in what happened because you were a young child and were in absolutely no position to understand the things that were happening to you at the time, and even if you did, it was very scary and you were in a position of weakness at the time.

And there is nothing to be ashamed or feel bad for in talking about it. That will help you to heal and to get stronger. And it will help other people to understand and know what is normal and healthy, and and will help other people to have healthy journeys and to heal as well. 

It will also help a cycle of problems which may have existed in your family for generations, to stop.

It is very scary and must feel horrible. But that does not mean that you have done anything wrong or it was not OK to say how you feel and say what you now know, or to ask others for help in the feelings that come or to share your story. 

It is just scary and that is just how it will feel sometimes when you stand up for what you now know and how you feel, and for your right to get support and go on a healing journey.

I forget the full details of what age your brothers were. But there must be something quite wrong... "up there" - for certain things to happen, and also with the fact that parents were present or knew things were happening. There can be a lot wrong in multiple people, and we don't yet fully understand exactly what is happening in a brain and a human body that are behaving a certain way. And then, these people may very well try to perpetuate what was happening and try to get others to keep their wrong viewpoint of it. Who knows how twisted people may be that they may truly believe it is 'not that bad' or something. Who knows whether they do, or whether they are just trying to make their actions 'okay'. Very often it is the second one. 

But whatever might or might not be wrong with people's brains or thinking, it is still not right what they have done. And it is absolutely okay and right and good for us, now that we are much older and have more power, to say no and to say what is normal and healthy and what is not. We have taken a very good and excellent step to just find out what is normal and healthy and what is not, and to be brave enough to say what we have learned.

Someone who has experienced these things and gotten the courage to do this, and to live their life and to reach out to others for help or for healthy interaction, and to even help more people they haven't met by bravely sharing their journey, has a lot to feel proud about. And as they get used to the challenges of this journey it will feel more and more okay and less scary and horrible to carry on in this journey. 

xxooxxoo

---------- Post Merged at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:23 PM ----------

(P.S. I hope you start to feel better but please keep us posted if you need more support. And do not feel that it is wrong or weak to feel terrible and need some more support, or for however long it takes for the feelings to subside a little. If there aren't many people online now or you need more direct support, please keep in mind support helplines like Samaritans etc, or specific ones for what you have been through, in your area.... Or your therapist if he would be available to take a phone call. You are worth whatever support you need.) xxoo


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## gardens (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi Lost in Thought,
First of all - what a horrible, horrible phone call.  I'm so sorry - he is sick and twisted.
You did not do anything wrong.  He/they we wrong.  What they did to you was wrong.



> I guess what bothers me most is him saying I liked it.I guess there were times that I did. I feel so ashamed of that.



I remember watching an Oprah show where she had Tyler Perry on.  He was sexually abused as a child, the whole audience was full of men who had been sexually abused - it was tragic.  I remember a few men including Perry talking about the shame of being aroused during the abuse.  He too felt ashamed that he was aroused and probably thought the same thing as you, that he thought he liked it.
When the human body is physically, sexually stimulated it is NORMAL to feel sensations of arousal even in an abusive situation.  It is a physical response.  It doesn't mean you liked it.

I wish I could give you a big hug right now - and tell you that you don't have to carry this guilt with you.


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## GDPR (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. 

I was just starting to feel hopeful and positive and really was beginning to think I might be able to, I don't know, find my way through all of this somehow,and then the phone call took me right back down again.I'm not  having the major anxiety anymore, that has subsided. It's been replaced with feelings of such deep worthlessness and insignificance. The same way my family has always made me feel.

I'm sure I will eventually get over this, but right now, it just really hurts and has really stirred up old feelings.


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## MHealthJo (Oct 24, 2012)

You are strong, resourceful and cool LIT... I hope this setback won't last too long...
 I am sure you will be able to feel more positive on your path again soon.

Maybe you can use it next time you see your therapist, to discuss triggers and things like that, recap how to navigate threats to your wellbeing... a chance to get  more and more comfortable  with your toolbox...

We will be thinking of you... You are worthy and significant, and no amount of sick behaviour in sick or twisted people has one speck of connection with your worth or significance. xoxo


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## GDPR (Oct 26, 2012)

I am starting to feel better now. 

I sure didn't expect my brother to say the things he did. And I wish he hadn't said them, but he did. I do realize he is very seriously mentally ill now and that I need to avoid any and all contact with him. I do feel a little sad for him though, I won't lie, only because of who and how he is.


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## forgetmenot (Oct 26, 2012)

I am glad you are feeling a little better today hugs


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## MHealthJo (Oct 26, 2012)

It's okay to feel a little sad for really sick people, and I guess with family especially, to still have some sort of care for that "person" who is absolutely buried under sickness/twistedness.

But yeah. The reality that exists, for us to deal with in practical terms, is the sickness and twistedness. It's there and it can threaten our wellness. So we've gotta make tricky choices to first ensure our own health and sanity before other things, with guidance and assistance to navigate this, when it's tricky. Hard but worth it!

And in doing this we are showing anyone, who may one day be interested, what is right and healthy and what isn't, what paths to try to get onto, and the importance of certain things we are choosing to stand for - such as health and healing. 

When it's tricky, we can try to remind ourselves that surely the fundamental level of caring for another person is to be clear about what is healthy and what is right. Surely that would be the only way to hold out some sort of care or hope to the "healthy potential" or original essence that could be buried deep under the sickness, and not encourage or feed the sickness and twistedness that is dominating.

xx


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## GDPR (Nov 2, 2012)

My brother has been trying to call me, but I don't take his calls. 

I can't help but wonder what it is he wants to say to me, wonder if he wants to apologize or tell me what he did was wrong. But I just can't take the chance on having him say anything like he did during our last conversation. Why put myself through that again?

I do care about my brother, and I do feel bad for him. I feel bad for all of my brothers and my sister because we all have definite issues from our childhood. I honestly don't believe any of them would have done the things they did if our childhood would have been different. 

What I am struggling with now is all the 'shoulda,woulda,couldas'. I feel so much anger when I sit and think about all of it now. I know I can't go back and change the past. I know nothing can be undone and that I have to find some way to make peace with it all.


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## forgetmenot (Nov 2, 2012)

Talk to your therapist  and maybe if therapist is ok with it   have your brother talk to you  while therapist is present.  
No one can undue the past  so  right now all you can do is to look after you.     I have been trying to undue the past  the harm and um  it is to hard ok     oh god   right now  Just look after YOU     that is the most important thing to do     i wish your whole family could receive the support necessary to heal  hugs


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## GDPR (Nov 2, 2012)

forgetmenot said:


> Talk to your therapist  and maybe if therapist is ok with it   have your brother talk to you  while therapist is present.



That will never happen. My brother lives too far away, plus even if he lived next door to me I would never want to do that.

I don't think there's anything to work through or work out _with_ him. I need to do this for myself, on my own. He has his own therapist now, he's working on his own stuff finally, which I am really happy about. But I don't think I want any kind of relationship with him. I don't really need or want him in my life. He hasn't been for the past 10 years or so anyway.

The things he said in the phone conversation are something I can't ever just let go of or forget about. He has no remorse for the things he did to me. He doesn't even think there was anything wrong with what he did. I do believe if he was in my life and around me he would try to do the same things, even now.

I can care about him, I can feel bad for him too, but I don't have to have him in my life. I wish it could be different, but it can't be.Who knows though, maybe someday he will be different, maybe I will get a letter of apology or at least a morsel of remorse from him. But I have decided that until (or IF) that day comes, I'm not going to talk to someone that brags about sexually abusing me and says I liked it and it was just a 'normal' thing that happens in families.


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## rdw (Nov 2, 2012)

The last phone call from your brother set you back. Looking after yourself and your mental health is your first priority now; he can look after himself however he chooses.


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## GDPR (Nov 2, 2012)

Yes, it _did_ set me back. And I don't think I have pulled myself all the way back up from it yet. Talking to him isn't worth how it makes me feel afterwards.


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## MHealthJo (Nov 2, 2012)

Things that have happened can't be undone. But they can be dealt with in a healthier way and "engaged with" in a healthier way in our mind and in our life. We can make healthier, more correct statements about what happened, by what we do and by our commitment to this learning/ self-care/growth process.

So you're already doing the most major thing that you can possibly do in helping someone else, by setting the example and demonstrating what TO do.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi Lost_in_Thought,

Sorry I haven't been around in a while...

Just want to tell you that I agree with all you and the others have said.

You said that all your brothers and father even watched or participated in your abuse.  THAT is not normal.  Usually children do this exploratory thing one-on-one and are of the same age.  What children do is not gang up on a younger sibling and what a parent would do if he ever came across that scene would be to make sure it never happened again. 

I have a cousin who my therapist thinks was "groomed" for that sort of abuse.  He probably thought it was alright to do as well, because of what he was exposed to most of his life.  I assume that is what your brother thinks:  he learned it from his father/siblings.  I am sure that is what ALL pedophiles and sex abusers (or even other abusers) tell themselves...  

I assure you it is not normal, it IS abuse, and you are NOT crazy.  I think it's awesome that you told him it was wrong and abusive.  

I strongly recommend you call your phone company and find out if you can get some kind of feature on your phone so you can block his number.  I have done so with my parents.  You can also block their emails, and their FB page if they have one.   If you have a cell phone, you can block numbers through the phone or through an app.  And don't ever pick up on a blocked number: and if a blocked number leaves a vm, as soon as it picks up you can hit 3-3-7 to skip to the end of it and erase it without listening.

If for whatever reason one or more of your abusers do get into contact or communicate with you again, I wold recommend you just hang up, leave, don't reply, etc...


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## Lonewolf (Dec 3, 2012)

I think that you guys that can discuss this abuse are so brave, i have never felt safe enough to talk about it!! I live in hope that maybe one day i can!! Im sorry you went through it!! :facepalm:


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## GDPR (Dec 4, 2012)

jollygreenjellybean said:


> You said that all your brothers and father even watched or participated in your abuse.



Actually, everyone in the household was in on it. Even my sister.She told me recently she 'told' my brothers what to do to me because she didn't want it done to her anymore once she went through puberty.I asked her about it because I had horrible memories come up and wanted to know if they were real or not. She did apologize though.That doesn't make it ok, but at least SHE has remorse over what was done to me.

I have been working on all of this in therapy. It's weird how just talking about it is changing the way I see all of it. The hardest part about talking about it now is trying to find the right words to use when giving details. I'm always waiting for my therapist to be disgusted(with me), but that never happens. I will even ask him if he thinks it's disgusting and he says what THEY did was disgusting and I'm not.

My brother has finally stopped calling. He was calling over and over and leaving messages. I ignored them. At first I had a hard time ignoring them and thought maybe he would apologize or something, but they ended up being similar calls, so I finally just stopped answering. He starts out being nice but then starts yelling at me and telling me to shut the 'F' up and listen to him. I don't know why I did listen.My T said I was just repeating old patterns. I guess I was.

This is the 2nd week he hasn't called.Hopefully he won't call again.


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## Darkside (Dec 4, 2012)

Lost_In_Thought said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> I was just starting to feel hopeful and positive and really was beginning to think I might be able to, I don't know, find my way through all of this somehow,and then the phone call took me right back down again.I'm not  having the major anxiety anymore, that has subsided. It's been replaced with feelings of such deep worthlessness and insignificance. The same way my family has always made me feel.
> 
> I'm sure I will eventually get over this, but right now, it just really hurts and has really stirred up old feelings.



I feel a lot of anger reading this -- some terror because I was abused too, but mostly anger and rage. I want to beat the crap out of your brothers for doing this to you and causing you so much pain now. People do this because it was done to them and they never learned it was wrong, but good Lord -- grow up and take responsibility. Some people go through life feeling excessive guilt and shame -- over everything; and yet others feel none.

---------- Post Merged at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:01 AM ----------



Lost_In_Thought said:


> Actually, everyone in the household was in on it. Even my sister.She told me recently she 'told' my brothers what to do to me because she didn't want it done to her anymore once she went through puberty.I asked her about it because I had horrible memories come up and wanted to know if they were real or not. She did apologize though.That doesn't make it ok, but at least SHE has remorse over what was done to me.
> 
> I have been working on all of this in therapy. It's weird how just talking about it is changing the way I see all of it. The hardest part about talking about it now is trying to find the right words to use when giving details. I'm always waiting for my therapist to be disgusted(with me), but that never happens. I will even ask him if he thinks it's disgusting and he says what THEY did was disgusting and I'm not.
> 
> ...



Depending on how long ago this happened, and the laws in  your particular area, he could still be criminally prosecuted. Those voicemail messages (if you have them on tape) could be evidence.

If he starts calling you again (and the calls ARE a way of continuing the abuse because it is about control) tell him you are going to report him.


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## GDPR (Dec 4, 2012)

The last time I did talk to him, he seemed concerned that I was going to 'get him in trouble'. He kept asking if I was going to call the cops for the things he did to me.

I don't plan on involving the police, but I do plan on threatening him with that if he does start calling again. I think that would work cause I'm pretty sure he's a fugitive and has been for quite a few years.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Dec 4, 2012)

See, right there, he KNOWS it was wrong because now he's afraid you're going to stand up for yourself and report him.  

If he didn't think it was wrong, why is it not okay for you to talk about it?   Abusers do try to get you to feel ashamed and helpless so you won't report them: that's part of their arsenal.  I say let him stew.  He's worried about HIS well-being and not yours, as usual, eh?   

Good for you, not responding to him!  Don't worry too much about staying on the phone - that was sort of reverting back to his role and your role.  You might think of it as you froze because when he started talking like that you went back to how you felt back when you were little: helpless.  He was and still is your abuser, but you are doing great: taking steps to NOT be a victim anymore!

Bravo!  8)


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## GDPR (Dec 5, 2012)

I was thinking about that too,if he thinks what he did wasn't wrong,then why is he worried about getting in trouble for it.

My therapist said I need to know who's safe and who's not.He said my brother is dangerous and I need to stop all contact with him.He said it's not safe to talk to anyone in my family,including my mom.

He has never told me what to do before,he usually only makes suggestions.But in this case,I do believe he's right.


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## Darkside (Dec 5, 2012)

I think there must be some sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" at work between abusers and the abused ... particularly where there are years and years of it in a family situation. I get that frozen fear myself and I think it is because I was told to, "stand there and take it and it won't hurt so bad." So even now when faced with a situation rife with the potential for abuse I "lock up."

I keep waiting for the day when I will break free of this. Sounds like you already have in some ways. Good for you!!


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## GDPR (Dec 31, 2012)

Lost_In_Thought said:


> I don't plan on involving the police, but I do plan on threatening him with that if he does start calling again.



He started calling again,and I threatened him with the police,like I said I would. If he calls anymore,I plan on doing something about it,I plan on following through with my threat,otherwise this is going to continue.

I feel really scared and unsafe.There's something _very_ wrong with him.


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## GDPR (Jan 1, 2013)

There _must_ be something seriously wrong with my brother,right? Why on earth would he talk and brag about the things he did to me? It's bad enough that he did them,but to me,it's worse that he has no remorse at all and gets off on talking about it.

I'm having a hard time letting go of what he said the laast time he called. It was so bad I can't even write it here because it would surely be deleted.

It makes me sick. 

Someone told me that my dad told everyone what he was doing to me,actually _bragged _about it. So I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. 

I feel SO disgusted. And SO angry right now. And I woke up thinking about all of this.

If there was a way to seek revenge,I think I would do it right now.But,there's nothing I can do really except find a way to deal with this,find a way to let go and move on. 

I HAVE to put an end to my brothers calls. Cause I will never be able to move on with him talking and bragging about it. All it does is take me down,over and freaking over.

I'm NOT going to put up with it anymore. He is just messing with my head,he knows all the right things to say to get me to feel like crap about myself,knows how to make me feel like it was my own fault,like I deserved it,and I am not going to fall for it anymore.

I know I have said all this stuff before,but I really mean it this time. I _dare_ him to call again,cause he will be in for a big surprise.


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## making_art (Jan 1, 2013)

Lost_In_Thought,

This is terrible that your brother continues you to abuse you in the most horrible way. Please try and block him from doing this to you. Would you allow a stranger to call you and say these things to you? This person who unfortunately is your brother has no more rights than a stranger does to abuse you. This just needs to stop! Do whatever it takes to stop him...


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## GDPR (Jan 2, 2013)

Yea,you're right. I realize that myself too.I mean,I knew this before,but it has taken this long to _completely_ sink in.Before,there was confusion and doubt about it,but I _do _know that it's definitely wrong and _has _to stop.

Family=abuse. That's what I have always believed and put up with. But after his last call,a light bulb tuned on and it finally 100% clicked in my brain or something. I still believe family=abuse,but now I see that's exactly why I need to stay _away_ from my entire family.

I actually had already asked myself whether I would allow a stranger to say those things to me and had already realized that no,of course I wouldn't. I don't know why I had let it go on so long just because he is 'family'.


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## making_art (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm not a therapist, Lost_In_Thought, but my understanding is that with all forms of abuse, it can be very hard to "see" or accept that the experience you are going through is really "abuse."

Here is a quote from an article by Margaret Ballantine and Lynne Soine that has taught me more about sibling sexual abuse: 


> *
> Failure to Recognize Abuse, Fear of  Disclosure *
> Many children fail to identify themselves as victims of   sibling incest. Older brothers or sisters may take advantage of the  sexual  na?vet? of younger siblings to initially trick them into  incestuous behaviors.  Sexual behaviors are frequently couched in the  context of play, and young  victims are likely to find these activities  pleasurable.
> 
> ...



*November/December         2012 Issue* *Sibling Sexual Abuse  — Uncovering the Secret*
*By Margaret  Ballantine, PhD, MSW, LCSW-R, and Lynne Soine, DSW, MSW, LMSW*
*Social Work Today*
*Vol. 12 No. 6 P. 18*


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## GDPR (Jan 21, 2013)

I woke up thinking about this stuff today.

There's something I have never understood.When I was 15,I woke up with my dad on top of me. I don't understand how he got my clothes off ,was actually on top of me,doing what he was doing,while I was sleeping. How could I sleep through something like that? Of course,when I woke up and realized what was going on,I started to fight him.But it _really _bothers me that something like that could happen and I didn't wake up sooner.

I hate that sleeping makes me feel vulnerable still.I have been sleeping with weapons since I was probably 7 yrs old. I always thought they made me feel safe,but I had weapons when I was 15,but I didn't use them. Why didn't I? I guess they just give the illusion of safety.A false sense of security.

I'm sorry I keep bringing this thread up. This stuff just seems to keep creeping back in my mind.....


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## Mari (Jan 21, 2013)

I am not sure if this applies in the USA but in Canada if you have a direct threat from someone you can access Victim Services through the local police department. You can have police check your place of residence for safety and offer suggestions on anything that can be done to make it safer. Victim services also offers counselling and a booklet on personal and home safety. This will at least reduce your chance of personal injury.

 The thoughts are something completely different. No child should have the need for weapons but for some the reality is there because of their own personal history and experience. I sleep with weapons but the main problems are my thoughts and hyper vigilance. Weapons are only a help if they are something that can protect you and not something that can be used against you. It would be so nice to be able to sleep through the night and especially to have the nightmares stop. It is certainly understandable that you would have these thoughts and worries so do not hesitate to call the police if you feel threatened.


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jan 21, 2013)

Ask your therapist what to do...

I don't blame you for fearing sleeping...  You might find some relief from the fear if you ask the therapist for ideas...

*hugs*

Do you have a really yappy little dog?  Or a big German Shepherd?   It's comforting to have an actual alarm system, but if you don't have the money, a dog barking usually scares off potential break-ins.


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## GDPR (Jan 22, 2013)

My brother is trying to contact me _again._I can't do this anymore.I can't deal with this anymore.I wish I could just disappear so I don't have to deal with it.


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## MHealthJo (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm so sorry LIT.

Please take support, assistance, and advice from your therapist and other services mentioned, to take whatever measure you can to protect yourself and keep yourself away from his toxicity that threatens your wellbeing. 

And we hope you dont feel hesitation to keep talking through it here. 

You deserve wellbeing. xx

-- Also, I don't know much about restraining orders or those requests that a person not contact you - would those make it illegal for him to contact you?


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## H011yHawkJ311yBean (Jan 22, 2013)

L.I.T. you don't have to answer the phone... Do you have caller ID?

He is harassing you.  Write down the time and dates he calls.  If he leaves a message, don't listen to it, but perhaps save it in case you have to let the police or lawyers or a court know what type of things he is saying.  It doesn't matter if he isn't physically harming you.  He is harming you by emotionally and psychologically abusing you.  He is implying threats, and also the fact that he abused you when you were a child, these are all reasons that are perfectly sound to get a restraining order.  Heck your therapist will probably put in a word to support you, if you allow/ask him.

Write down how these calls make you feel, too.  It's good to process... Then share with your therapist.  Write down what you want your brother to do (stop) and why (to keep you safe).  Jot down all the reasons to keep yourself safe: because you deserve, it, for starters.   Because everyone deserves to live their life unmolested (no pun intended)...

Super important:  remember I mentioned you could get his calls blocked?   You can call your phone provider...  You may need to purchase a feature, or you may already have a package of features where this one is included (or you could ask if there is a feature package where you get several features for less than full price)....   You don't have to say who the person is you are trying to block, you just get the feature and block him yourself.  You don't have to tell your phone service who is calling you....

If you have a cell phone you can also get an app, or inside some phone settings you can actually block phone calls yourself in the settings...  If you need help with anything of these things, I can do a Google search for you.

Here is an example from where I live, with my provider:  Selective Call Reject - SaskTel   "*Selective Call Reject* won't allow callers who are on your rejection list to complete a call at your phone number."  

It might be called something else, but if you tell your landline phone service provider that you want to block certain people from calling, that should be all they need to know.

You would then do the blocking on your own...  Sometimes when you do it from your own phone it won't work, and then you call back and all you have to tell your phone company is which number you want blocked and you already tried it yourself.  You don't have to say who it is you are blocking, and they should know better than to ask as that is none of their business.  In fact if someone does have the rudeness to ask you, you are within your rights to tell them it isn't any of their business, or you could say "Someone who is harassing and scaring me."   They don't have a right to ask you.  You are paying for the feature, that's all they need to know...

Using Selective Call Reject and Selective Call Accept - Support - SaskTel  -- This shows you instructions on how you would block the number...  They may be the same instructions for your landline provider, but they might be different because your service provider is different from mine.  I am just giving this link as an example of what you would do.  Ask the person who is giving you the feature to either explain how it is done, or ask if they can tell you if the instructions are available online or in the phone book or somewhere for you to look at.

I highly recommend doing this.  I have blocked my relatives from calling.  It's much more peaceful and you don't have to fear receiving calls from them/him anymore.

Hope this spurs you to action...  

Even after you do this, you can go further.   Although I would check with your therapist.  You can also get a restraining order....   I did some research on that recently and it seems to always be free...  No charge.

*RESTRAINING ORDERS:* most states/provinces do NOT  charge to make a restraining order.  

*This one seems to allow you to search as per which state you are from* -- http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?statelaw_name=Restraining%20Orders&state_code=GE _Restraining  order laws are state laws and each state has different laws (also  called a statute) that lay out the requirements for getting an order. A   restraining order or protective order is a legal order issued by a   state court which requires one person to stop harming another person.    It is also sometimes called a protection order, an injunction, an order   of protection, or some other similar name._

FAQ ? Restraining Orders

How To Get a Restraining Order ? Center For Relationship Abuse Awareness
_"There are no fees for a Domestic Violence Restraining Order. YOU  DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A LAWYER. However, you may wish to have a lawyer,  especially if your abuser has a lawyer."_

A Self-Help Guide: How to make an application for a restraining order - Ministry of the Attorney General


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## GDPR (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks.

I'm ok today.I'm not going to let this take me down again. I think that's where he likes sending me and keeping me. Instead,I'm going to do what needs to be done.


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## Darkside (Jan 23, 2013)

Lost_In_Thought said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm ok today.I'm not going to let this take me down again. I think that's where he likes sending me and keeping me. Instead,I'm going to do what needs to be done.



Good for you.

I know myself how strong a hold abusers have on their victims -- I cave in repeatedly because this voice inside me keeps say, "but they're family ... they wouldn't harm you because they love you."

Take small steps to take care of yourself and they will grow into bigger steps. Protect that little girl who's scared to death. Be her hero and you will find peace.


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## GDPR (Mar 1, 2013)

Sorry to bring this thread up again.But it's on my mind again today. Actually,it's been on my mind since yesterday.I had a hectic and stressful day and then this stuff popped back in my thoughts.

When I was in high school,as I was walking down the hallway and towards the stairs,a boy came up to me and said "your brother said I can f### you if I want to". And he said it like I didn't have a choice in the matter,he said it like he _was_ going to do it and that it was ok because my _brother_ said he could. I was so humiliated that I wanted to die. So humiliated that I didn't say anything at all to him. And I felt scared because I was wondering if it was really going to happen,and when and where.

I felt sick to my stomach.My _brother _told him he could if he wanted to!Like he had complete control over me!Like I wasn't even a person,like I was just a _thing _to be used and abused. Like that was how I was _supposed _to be treated. Like I deserved it or something!

I don't know if anyone else heard that boy say that to me,but I'm assuming people did because it was in between classes and the halls and stairs were crowded.I don't know because I didn't look up after he said it.I was too humiliated and ashamed to.

UGH! It all still makes me feel ashamed and humiliated! 

I wish I had stuck up for myself.I wish I had said something to that boy instead of standing,with my head down,feeling humiliated and degraded!


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## making_art (Mar 1, 2013)

Lost_In_Thought,

How horrible this must have been for you.....what an a....this boy was to even say something like this to you. He's the one who should feel shame and embarrassment for his behaviour. Your brother deserves to go to jail for his despicable behaviour.

You can't blame yourself for having family members who were abusive to you as a child...It was not your fault this happened to you Lost_In_Thought....It is the fault of the adults who were supposed to protect you from this.

Wish I could wave a magic wand and make it so none of this ever happened to you.

With bullies like this I think you did the best thing by walking away and ignoring him.  :friends:


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## GDPR (Mar 3, 2013)

Sometimes it's hard to come back to this site at all after I have posted here. I think OMG,I can't believe I am talking about such personal things with people I don't even know. But...it does seem to help,so I keep doing it.

After I made my last post here,I started thinking about other things.Like, there was a neighbor boy that came over to meet me on the back porch. It was a regular thing that happened. I have always been ashamed of it and have felt SO horrible about myself over it. Especially since he told people at school that he could 'get some' anytime he wanted.

Up until now,I had completely forgot about the fact that my _brother _was the one that arranged it. He was the one that told the boy to start meeting me on the porch on specific days and times(different boy than the one that said that to me at school). I remember the first time it happened now. I was hiding in the laundry room of our house and didn't want to do it and my brother told me to(made me) go out there with him.

Now this makes sense.Now I understand why that boy at school said what he did to me. And I understand why I didn't stand up for myself.I never felt like I had a choice in the matter.My family had been doing things like that to me all along. Since I was very young. They allowed people to use and abuse me. They arranged it.They watched.Sometimes they participated. 

I was doing what I was taught and told to do. It wouldn't have done any good to stand up for myself. 

When I think about all of this stuff,I wish I had done so many things in a different way.I had so many chances to tell what was going on in that house and with my family. But I never told. I wish when the school called in a psychologist to talk to me after I tried to kill myself when I was 15 that I had told him _everything._Maybe he would have had me removed from my home.I really thought he was going to when he said "you're just not happy in your home,are you?" I should have told him exactly why I wasn't happy there.

It really bothers me to think that there could be(are) kids out there right now going through what I went through and are afraid to tell anyone,like I was.

If someone is reading this and you're being abused,*TELL *someone.Don't keep quiet because you're ashamed of what's happening.*DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SO THAT IT WILL STOP!* No matter how you feel about yourself,*YOU **DON'T DESERVE IT.* No matter what anyone tells you,*IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!*​

I wish I had told someone! I think my life would be totally different now if I had.


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